New player race choices.

[Dresan]

It is heart-breaking to see a new player create a half-elf or elf as a new character. You need to bend over backwards to help them as a human in an IC way depending your position and role, but the only place they can find work is the byn most of the time. Thats not for everyone.

I am not sure limiting new players of this races is good, though it would be a good idea, like limiting the first character players to allanak for example.  At the very least though I think they should recieve a HUGE WARNING IN CAPS about the experience they will have as a half-elf/elf. That there are few opportunities unless you have experience in the game.  

[Inks]

I am not for restricting, but I am pro warning. Honestly I would put a paragraph explaining how dwarf focus works too. Or make dwarves 1 karma.

[whitt]

I am not for restricting, but I am pro warning. Honestly I would put a paragraph explaining how dwarf focus works too. Or make dwarves 1 karma.

It's a first character restriction.  No amount of research can prepare a player for elves and breeds of zalanthas without seeing it first hand. 

That Dwarves are not 1 karma, with the focus requirement, has always baffled me.  DE are karma-restricted and they seem easier to grasp as each tribe has a background to build from.

[Lizzie]

I'm on the "why dwarves no karma??" bandwagon. I still haven't played one because the idea of a focus is so daunting to me (I have ADD - I can't even conceptualize ME having a focus, let alone a text character).

I think each combination you pick in chargen should have its own mini-blurb, with less-recommended options having actual warnings to players with their first and second characters. An example:

Pick a guild:

Assassin

>REMINDER: the guilds are merely skillsets; this doesn't mean your character will be an assassin as soon as they enter the game. The path to an actual useful, productive, and successful assassin can be a lengthy and difficult process. As a new player you might find more fun and interaction with a warrior, merchant, or ranger. Are you sure you want to pick Assassin? y/n

Pick a race:

Elf

>WARNING: Elves cannot get jobs in any clans other than the Byn and sometimes House Kurac, and even then their ability to succeed is filled with obstruction at every turn. Other characters, sometimes even other elves, will intentionally try to prevent your elf from succeeding, at every possible opportunity. Do you still want to play an elf? y/n

[WarriorPoet]

I would love to see dwarves and C-elves made 1 karma. I think city elves are more jarring to see played, ah, off the proper path. City elves have a collective 50's greaser-gang vibe that I think is lost on new player. Or maybe that's my own coloring of the race. Dwarves are just hyper-focused. I think that's an easier shift into our universe.

[TFort]

 Not sure about the 1 karma thing. 

[Dunetrade55]

I'm against making them one karma. MAYBE dwarves. I'd be much more fond of there being a notification when you pick a race other than humans advising some known difficulties with the race and pointing them to the helpfiles, asking, "are you sure you want to play this race? Yes or no?".

[Dresan]

New players often don't know how to emote, let alone RP their races properly. Thats fine. This is not what I'm pointing out.

Elf/half-elves have a hard time recieving the positive interactions that are needed to learn the game. The only clan that will take them is the byn, a clan that is clearly not for everyone. Players already need to bend their role backwards to give a new player the attention they need when they are playing a breed or elf. Again if they were playing a human, they could more easily be helped, invited to join another clan, find people who can easily spend more time with them showing them how to play the game in an IC way.

[Tisiphone]

This idea sounds like a great way to severely cut down on the number of new players trying the game.

"Oh, this MUD sounds cool. It's a roleplay MUD that takes itself seriously...*click click*...and they have a lot of cool lore! Neat! And... *click click* ...there are some cool races, with thematic social restrictions! I'd love to play a half-elf, that sounds cool! ...oh, I can't. Because I'm a new player? Screw that MUD, I'll keep looking."

[Dresan]

Its why I think a huge warning in CAPS that these are NOT beautiful tolkien style half-elves/elves and that they have some hefty penality attached to them, code wise with strength, and RP wise. They there often hated and shunned with very few opportunities to join organizations. You often need to have experience to make playing those races enjoyable, let alone viable in some regards.


I think that should help a new player understand, why they aren't making any friends and why no one wants to offer them work or join their groups. 

[Tisiphone]

Eh, I think the sort of player interested in this MUD will already understand that just fine without us shouting at them. The rare exceptions will just go away again. Which is fine, because if they don't like people being mean to them, this is not the MUD they want.

[Dresan]

Sorry but I think you are wrong and its that way of thinking that would cost us more players.

Its clear we've had newbies who have taken the time to make a character but don't know anything about muds or what they are getting into, lets face it not everyone has the time to read those helpfiles in uitter detail and some of the seasoned players still find new text after years of playing.

I feel giving them a warning will ensure any newbie will have the needed information to decide if this is the route they want to try. I'm okay with them trying, but it should nade be very clear that its difficult upfront.

[Talia]

From approving applications, I have the sense that when new players make half-elves, they often have gone to the trouble of reading the basics about the races. Their backgrounds generally reflect this. But looking over the help files again, e.g. http://armageddon.org/help/view/Half-Elves, there's no warning there that half-elves may find it difficult to find employment or a place in society. The city elf description is the same; it seems like it's mostly about physical characteristics.

It's not my impression that staff in general really wants to limit first PCs more than we've already done so, but maybe it would be helpful for the help files to be more helpful and to be re-written with very new players in mind? Y'all could take a stab at that here with whatever other info you think new players would need to really get a good start in the game.

[Lizzie]

Eh, I think the sort of player interested in this MUD will already understand that just fine without us shouting at them. The rare exceptions will just go away again. Which is fine, because if they don't like people being mean to them, this is not the MUD they want.

It's not rare, we see posts here (sometimes they get deleted before anyone can respond to them) about how their character was PKed for "absolutely no reason" and it turns out it was a new player who played a half-breed who mouthed off to a noble's aide, or kept getting beat up randomly by Bynners at the Gaj, or didn't think it should be a big deal if his elf character wants to have a fling with the human chick he met yesterday.

It happens often enough that this topic exists now, and comes up every now and again, as a reminder that it IS a problem, and it DOES drive new players away. They show up, read the docs (or don't) and think "yeah that's what the last 5 muds I played said and it wasn't hard at all to play a human in love with some other race, this isn't gonna be any different." Then they find it's serious here, and run away never to return. Or rage-quit on the GDB.

If they understood in big bold letters DURING the chargen process, that the option they're about to select is not recommended [insert reason here], then it reinforces the seriousness intended by the docs. They can still choose that option - but they go into it with that big fat bold reminder that they should expect it to be a difficult journey on an OOC level, not merely on an IC level.

[Raptor_Dan]

I'm going to have to second what Lizzie said, using anecdotal evidence. I read the docs for my first char, kind of skimmed -some- of the docs, but read up a lot on all of the parts I wanted to, like House Oash, magick, elves, and Allanak. So I made an elf in Allanak, and sought out an Oashi to get a magick weapon    I got ganked so hard. I even had an elf try and stop the interaction, asking if I knew what I was doing. (Who trusts elves? I wasn't about to, but surely I could trust these humans) Well, they took me aside, into their barracks, one turned into a crazy krathi, and said his dwarven friend was a mindbender, and they proceeded to abuse my poor sweet little elven princess until I saw the mantis-head. It was fun, but I had cherry picked too much of the docs and convinced myself I knew what I was doing.

If I had seen some glaring, bold letters telling me YOU ARE NOT TRUSTED. YOU ARE HATED BY X, Y, AND Z, I would have probably played a lot differently. Maybe. I was thirteen, and I really wanted a magickal weapon and a cloak to make me invisible.

[Lizzie]

I'd also urge the staff to make it an add-on in the chargen. Just a one-line snippet for any of the less "typical" role options for first and second characters of each account. So - assassin (because it's common for new players to assume that if they pick assassin, it means they can start killing people in the first couple of days). Burglar, elf, half-elf, dwarf, any location other than Allanak proper.

1 line for each of the above, to explain the specific difficulty in playing it as a first-time player, and a reminder that new players are urged to try human - warrior/ranger/merchant - Allanak.
And then a "Do you still wish to select this option? Y/N" and if they say yes proceed, if they say no return them to that particular option menu.

[Barsook]

I'd also urge the staff to make it an add-on in the chargen. Just a one-line snippet for any of the less "typical" role options for first and second characters of each account. So - assassin (because it's common for new players to assume that if they pick assassin, it means they can start killing people in the first couple of days). Burglar, elf, half-elf, dwarf, any location other than Allanak proper.

1 line for each of the above, to explain the specific difficulty in playing it as a first-time player, and a reminder that new players are urged to try human - warrior/ranger/merchant - Allanak.
And then a "Do you still wish to select this option? Y/N" and if they say yes proceed, if they say no return them to that particular option menu.

I like this idea.

[Refugee]

I'd also urge the staff to make it an add-on in the chargen. Just a one-line snippet for any of the less "typical" role options for first and second characters of each account. So - assassin (because it's common for new players to assume that if they pick assassin, it means they can start killing people in the first couple of days). Burglar, elf, half-elf, dwarf, any location other than Allanak proper.

1 line for each of the above, to explain the specific difficulty in playing it as a first-time player, and a reminder that new players are urged to try human - warrior/ranger/merchant - Allanak.
And then a "Do you still wish to select this option? Y/N" and if they say yes proceed, if they say no return them to that particular option menu.

This is a good idea.

[solera]

If you are going to mention Allanak, I would give the reasons why their chosen locality may not be a good choice. I would have been very happy to have chosen Morins or Luirs for my first PC.

[Synthesis]

All new PCs will die horribly.

There isn't anything particularly mystifying about dwarven or elven mindsets that make them a significant RP challenge, and there isn't anything particularly powerful about them that would justify them being karma restricted.

[Delirium]

Thanks to post defense nerf (er, defense adjustments) strength is pretty OP, making dorfs pretty powerful for a 0-karma race.

Thus a lot of the dorf popularity among powergamers (and subsequent reputation for substandard RP, however jokey).

I don't know if that requires a karma point, per se, but it is something to take into consideration.

OT, I'm always a fan of "warn them, but let them do what they want", within reason. I don't see a real need to force more of a limit on options.

[whitt]

It's not my impression that staff in general really wants to limit first PCs more than we've already done so, but maybe it would be helpful for the help files to be more helpful and to be re-written with very new players in mind? Y'all could take a stab at that here with whatever other info you think new players would need to really get a good start in the game.

How's this for half-elves?  Also removed the direct reference to rape.

Born of mixed elven and human parentage, half-elves share many of the traits of both races. Tall, roughly between 70 to 82 inches in height, and possessed of deeply etched features, half-elves can resemble their elven parents strongly. On the other hand, half-elves are bulkier and somewhat more hardy than elves, and so can resemble their human parents. Regardless of these attributes, however, half-elves can virtually always pass for either humans or elves, and share the skin tones and hair-and-eye colors of both parents.

A half-elf is an even mixture of elven and human abilities: they are stronger than elves but less so than humans; possess more endurance than elves (except for the elven ability to run long distances), but less than humans; and inherit elven wisdom and agility, but not to the extent which elves have these things.
Half-elves are somewhat solitary types, and many spend most of their time out in the desert. They are rumored to have a special rapport with beasts of all kinds, but whether this is true or not, or if it is due to something innate in their nature or simply because they spend a lot of time with their mounts, is a matter of light debate.

Roleplaying:
Often left on the outskirts of civilization, half-elves (or breeds) are not accepted by either humans or elves.  They will frequently being reviled as filth even by the families of their parents, if not by their parents themselves as very few half-elves are the product of a loving, consensual pairing between an elven and human parent.  

Likewise, half-elves will find it hard to find employment.  Few outside of the most accepting or the most desperate will offer employment to those of mixed blood.  Perhaps as a result, half-elves tend to be extremely self-reliant, and they pride themselves on this trait. Half-elves try to do everything for themselves, such as hunting for their own meals and camping well apart from others they are with.

Despite this, half-elves typically try to gain acceptance by elves or humans and will go out of their way toward that end. In many ways, half-elves are on a continual journey to establish their personal identity while also trying to fit into the very society that rejects.  Some half-elves even go so far as to try and hide their breeding to pass themselves off as human or elf.

Notes:
If you are new to Armageddon MUD, you should be aware that all half-elves are discriminated against -- even among the lower classes of Zalanthas.  As a result they will not have very many social or employment opportunities.  Please bear this additional challenge in mind should you choose to start play as a half-elf.

[whitt]

maybe it would be helpful for the help files to be more helpful and to be re-written with very new players in mind? Y'all could take a stab at that here with whatever other info you think new players would need to really get a good start in the game.

And for Elves... just an additional Note at the top of Notes.  Oh and removed the reference to starting in Tuluk.

Elves are the second most populous race on the face of Zalanthas. Some evidence suggests that this was not always the case, but elves have been very numerous for as far back as anyone can remember. City-elves and desert-elves originate from the same lines, but have diverged in significant ways over time. Due to their concentration in the cities, city elves may not choose a starting location other than Allanak.

All elves stand between around 75 and 96 inches in height and tend to have slim, light frames. Elvish features tend to have less variation than do human features, but a large range does indeed exist: skin color usually falls in the dark, dusky browns to pale cream-colors; hair is typically darker but shares a similar range of hues. Eye color among elves, however, is a matter of extraordinary variability. Elven ears are always pointed, and the shape of the eyes is always that of an almond.

As compared to humans, elves have a higher agility (on average), and a somewhat higher wisdom. Due to their light build, though, they are generally less strong and sturdy than humans. All elves find riding mounts to be a shameful act (though they can usually forgive the use of mounts by other races). In other words, elves will never willingly ride on mounts, in wagons, or on skimmers, as to do so would be to insult one of the few things they are proud of: their natural speed and endurance on the run.

Notes:
If you are new to Armageddon MUD, you should be aware that all elves have a cultural bent toward thievery. This reputation of elves as thieves, scoundrels, and con artists colors every interaction between an elf and any other person they might encounter.  As a result you will likely find your character discriminated against and possibly actively blamed for crimes they did not commit, simply because they are a convenient and ready scapegoat.  Please bear this additional challenge in mind should you choose to start play as an elf.  For more details, please see: City Elf Roleplay.

The differences between city elves and desert elves are only the result of their differing lifestyles--there is only one elven race.

Elves are not strong -- in comparison to most of the other humanoid races of Zalanthas, they are quite weak. They possess other abilities to compensate. If you are not happy running a character that is physically weak, you are advised not to choose this race.

[nauta]

Notes:
If you are new to Armageddon MUD, you will most likely find your character solidly discriminated against for both social and employment opportunities, even among the lower classes of Zalanthas.  Please bear this additional challenge in mind should you choose to start play as a half-elf.

Minor grammar/ambiguity things re: half-elves.

If you are new to Armageddon MUD, you should be aware that all half-elves are discriminated against -- even among the lower classes of Zalanthas.  As a result they will not have very many social and employment opportunities.  Please bear this...

Motivation: The first sentence suggests that one would find themselves discriminated against because they are a new player.  I also split up the 'As a result' because I think it flows better.

Otherwise, awesome stuff -- I dig the elf write-up, especially the bit about being blamed for crimes you didn't commit.

Re: rape)

I don't see why you removed it.  We can have rape 'off-screen' so to speak, in the virtual world or in the biography -- and it remains true that half-elves (despite the PC population's exceptionalism) come about either from other half-elves or ultimately the unhappy union of elf and human.

[whitt]

Re: rape)

I don't see why you removed it.  We can have rape 'off-screen' so to speak, in the virtual world or in the biography -- and it remains true that half-elves (despite the PC population's exceptionalism) come about either from other half-elves or ultimately the unhappy union of elf and human.

It's not exactly gone... gone.  Just the word rape and the blatant call out to it as its own note in the Notes section.  Moved the reference into the Roleplay section.

They will frequently being reviled as filth even by the families of their parents, if not by their parents themselves as very few half-elves are the product of a loving, consensual pairing between an elven and human parent.

[Dakota]

I don't think this is that much of an issue. My first PC was a half-elf. It just gave it an excuse to be emo.

I would love to see dwarves and C-elves made 1 karma.

C-elves as 1 karma? They're already hardmode. It's the best race but also easily the hardest of the pickable races.

[BadSkeelz]

Warnings and more support for C-elves (maybe documents and some tribes...) is probably enough for them; honestly I can't recall that many "obviously floundering newbie city elves." The ones I do recall were just newbies - slow responses, going OOC to yell about their God-given American rights when my soldier is accosting them, etc. - and not really going way off the document rails in their behavior. I like to think because Armageddon's races are so different from the fantasy norm, the people who don't read the docs or clearly just don't get it often don't make it through character generation.

Dwarves, though. Dwarves I wouldn't mind seeing at karma 1. Again, I don't feel like many newbies play dwarves, but I hope a karma-requirement might encourage more people to think outside the "Git gud" rough circle with them.

[whitt]

Warnings and more support for C-elves (maybe documents and some tribes...) is probably enough for them; honestly I can't recall that many "obviously floundering newbie city elves."

Sometimes I think the problem goes the other way.  New players of humans don't know that elves are not friends.

[Dresan]

Just for the record, I could care less about how a new player is RPing their character. At least they have excuses for not quite getting the RP yet, unlike some elitist people with karma roles that don't really do that much better than they do. I'm more concerned with making sure newbies have the best chance to get into an environment where they will come to see the merits of the game, as opposed to just hitting those RP walls that comes with playing half-elves/elves, without the needed experience to surpass them.


After all it takes time to properly learn the game, and the best way to learn is to be surrounded by RPers who will tell them why they shouldn't be kanking elves, instead of rolling their eyes and ignoring them as if their own shit don't stink. When they play humans its just much easier to give them that experience.

Again I agree restriction is not the way, but would love to see a warning for guild/races that make things harder for them. Also, considering we are now talking about mentioning skill in guild helpfiles, perhaps in the future we can consider offering suggestions on race/guild/sub-guilds to newbies too, with an explanation on the benefits of playing any combination of human ranger/crafter or human warrior/riding subguild.

[Dunetrade55]

It doesn't take too long for them to figure out that elves aren't friends though, Whitt. Elves aren't  as bad as Zalanthan society regards them, and definitely have their good points, but few, if any characters that are non-elven, will ever see the good side of an elf. Some will see it and change over time, there's nothing that's always or never. The difference between elven and human mindsets are enough that their sinister reputation will easily be upheld in the long term without additional outside efforts. What might seem screwed up to you as a human being is just one of those things that doesn't really matter to an elf. What you may take as an innocent gesture, however, the elf may take extreme offense to and retaliate.

I don't think new players should be encouraged by the documentation to view elves as shifty, dangerous beasts, as this can be learned quite easily ICly. Putting in the help file "Elves will most likely screw you over" would simply discourage new players from interacting with elves at all and experiencing exactly WHY they are treated how they're treated, and in effect not giving them an example of how elves act should they ever choose to play one. The fact is, elves won't ALWAYS screw you over, and when they do part of the time it's going to be mild and simply because they don't know you well yet.

[Raptor_Dan]

Is that what we're talking about? Putting, 'Elves will most likely screw you over' in the helpfile?

[nauta]

Is that what we're talking about? Putting, 'Elves will most likely screw you over' in the helpfile?

It's sort of already in the help files:

All elves have a cultural bent toward both wandering and thievery. Among elves, theft is not a crime, per se, but more of a test of courage.