Weapon type freedom with backstab/poison

[nauta]

With the new changes to poison and cure code, I just wanted to resurrect this idea. I feel the way poisons are going, it is sad to restrict it to just piercing weapon type.

Similarly still feel it sucks to be restricted to weapon type with backstab.

Since the discussion here was solid, didn't want to start a new thread on the subject. (Hopefully people won't get too angry because of that)

So I was thinking about this, and take this with a grain of salt since I don't know the code, but...

I like the idea that each 'weapon skill' kind has a slightly different thing that those who specialize in it can take advantage of.  I hope this isn't giving too much away but:

(a) piercing weapons - can get laced with poisons
(b) bludgeoning weapons - you can knock your opponent out
(c) slashing weapons - not sure (maybe they do more damage)
(d) chopping weapons - not sure (maybe they do more damage)

Hence, a character when training has to pick and choose and can't just be good at all of them (at least initially): you want to be the guy who knocks people out -- train bludgeoning; want to be the gal that poisons fuckers, pick piercing, etc.

Another thing to think about is that if everyone focuses on piercing (so they can poison), then those with chopping have a little advantage since everyone's defense will also be checked against piercing and not chopping.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on the gameplay reasoning behind keeping poisoning limited to just a single weapon type.

[perfecto]

I agree the weapon type shouldn't matter when it comes to poison, in fact realistically you should be able to poison anything in the game if you wanted to.  The game has always tried to mimic the realism of life but in this manner with how the poison code works it would be a massive overhaul which I don't see a major call for at this time.  Also I feel backstab should work with any weapon type as well, I think being backstabbed with hachet should hurt just as much as a knife. As a general (sneak attack) but then that would outsource the sap command which has its own potential.

[Miradus]

Backstab is a specific thing. That's why they call it backstab.

What you're wanting is a positional attack from a hidden position using any weapon, which I believe you already get some sort of bonus for.

[Delirium]

^^ yep.

[roughneck]

I like that poisoning/backstab only works for stabbing weapons. It makes sense.

That's cold war spies hid knives with them, not hatchets.

There's a million points to argue really, but it's hard to axe the axe-swing you have coming out of the shadows. You can stab someone from a few inches away.

[SuchDragonWow]

Backstab is fine.  Extend poison to chopping and slashing.

[Dar]

Are you guys having a laugh?

I'm sure all of you read about poisoned arrows.

I'm sure all of you read about poisoned daggers

Poisoned Spears are a little rarer, but there is some literature about it. Like aboriginals keeping their spears inside dead animals and all that.


Have you "ever' heard 'any' what so ever mention of a poisoned axe !?

Poisoned sword is feasable, but there 'are' slashing weapons that allow for poisoning.

This whole thread is silly in my opinion.

[Armaddict]

I have no qualms with things as they are.  I believe that there are sensible crossovers to the 'rules' on poisons (i.e. Poisonable slashing weapons etc), but they are harder to find but not so hard that if you're looking for them, you won't find them.

[SuchDragonWow]

Have you "ever' heard 'any' what so ever mention of a poisoned axe !?

Poisoned sword is feasable, but there 'are' slashing weapons that allow for poisoning.

Why would you need to poison someone with something when you can just split their skull open with it? 

It doesn't change the fact that you can apply poison to a wooden dildo if you wanted, and as long as a lethal dose gets dry-humped into the bloodstream, that's all she wrote, sonny boy.  But of course, you might say poisoning an axe is INCONCEIVABLE. 

In my most excellent opinion, let anything with an edge be poisoned, and variate their effectiveness by weapon type and strength of hit.

Are you guys having a laugh?

...

This whole thread is silly in my opinion.

[solera]

There are dildos in game?! Where???

[Hauwke]

It honestly wouldnt surprise me that there is if its true. If it was a weapon it would come under piercing or stabbing...

[SuchDragonWow]

It honestly wouldnt surprise me that there is if its true. If it was a weapon it would come under piercing or stabbing...

Obviously I was being facetious with the dildo thing, but I think you must be referencing a needle. 

[Lutagar]

be the change and mastercraft one

[Jihelu]

Bludgeoning dildo that transfers poisons.

[Hauwke]

Maybe I will make it a pike weapon. Be super fancy with that shit. So only the truly masterful should bother using them (or the really old combat pcs that are just ridiculous with any old weapon anyway but thats not the point!)

But in all seriousness, I dont see a problem with a slashing weapon being used to poison someone. A longsword is classed a slashing weapon, but that doesnt mean you can stab a fool with it for example.

[Miradus]

A human body's response to toxins is bleeding. Bleed out the toxin. If you get bitten by a poisonous snake, that's the time-honored remedy ... to open up the wound so it bleeds out the poison as much as possible.

It's why doctors use hypodermic NEEDLES and not a hypodermic battle axe.

Anything that's going to cause a lot of bleeding is going to reduce the efficacy of any toxin. The toxin has to remain in the body to work, not washed out when you opened up a slashing wound that would take 200 stitches to close.

If you want to argue that some of the longknives and such in the game should also suffice for a stabbing weapon, then that's a decent argument. But trying to equate administering a lethal dose of kryl venom with some primitive smearing shit on the edge of his sharpened bone is not a decent argument.

There are weapons in the game you can "flip" and turn from a slasher to a bludgeon. I can see where some knives would be both long, and short enough to be either a stabber or a slasher.

[Alizerin]

be the change and mastercraft one

Queue incoming dwarf with the focus to make the first Zalanthan sex-toy merchant house.

[RogueGunslinger]

A human body's response to toxins is bleeding. Bleed out the toxin. If you get bitten by a poisonous snake, that's the time-honored remedy ... to open up the wound so it bleeds out the poison as much as possible.

It's why doctors use hypodermic NEEDLES and not a hypodermic battle axe.

Anything that's going to cause a lot of bleeding is going to reduce the efficacy of any toxin. The toxin has to remain in the body to work, not washed out when you opened up a slashing wound that would take 200 stitches to close.

I'm not a doctor or anything but...

[Armaddict]

Again.  Slashing weapons can already be poisoned.

Look for those items that you, once upon a time, were surprised they were slashing instead of piercing or stabbing.  Most of those can be poisoned.

[Jihelu]

Again.  Slashing weapons can already be poisoned.

Look for those items that you, once upon a time, were surprised they were slashing instead of piercing or stabbing.  Most of those can be poisoned.

Iirc any item can be poisoned but not all items transfer poison?

[Armaddict]

That would be a significant code change I don't recall happening.

I'm afraid I can only give my anecdotal word from within the past 3-4 months, then.

[Jihelu]

That would be a significant code change I don't recall happening.

I'm afraid I can only give my anecdotal word from within the past 3-4 months, then.

I should play an assassin sometime and actually test out my theories.
But  thats gross.

[SuchDragonWow]

A human body's response to toxins is bleeding. Bleed out the toxin. If you get bitten by a poisonous snake, that's the time-honored remedy ... to open up the wound so it bleeds out the poison as much as possible.

It's why doctors use hypodermic NEEDLES and not a hypodermic battle axe.

Anything that's going to cause a lot of bleeding is going to reduce the efficacy of any toxin. The toxin has to remain in the body to work, not washed out when you opened up a slashing wound that would take 200 stitches to close.

I'm not a doctor or anything but...

There are poisons in the game that would seem to act within seconds, but it does open up a level of nuance that seems tedious. I could really take it or leave it.

[Armaddict]

Yeeeah, I think this is kind of going into the area of more work than it's worth for the questionable boon of 'now my axes can poison too'.

[SuchDragonWow]

Yeeeah, I think this is kind of going into the area of more work than it's worth for the questionable boon of 'now my axes can poison too'.

I think making poisons deadlier and much rarer is a noble cause, but it's really fine.  It'd be cool.