Elementalist Subguilds for Drov, Nilaz and Elkros

[wizturbo]

Just a poll.  I think adding these in would be awesome, but for some reason people don't always agree with me?  :p

[TheWanderer]

I'm fine with Nilaz and Elkros. Not so much with Drov.

Easily one of the most tedious guilds from a mundane perspective and it should remain in the depths of the virtual world.

[Miradus]

If I remember right, wasn't the premise that magic as a subguild were watered down versions of what they were before?

If Ruk can touch you, why can't Drov or Nilaz?

Don't see a problem with this at all.

[Desertman]

I miss having necromancers. I thought they added a bit of flare to the game that we will otherwise miss now. I always wanted to see the code for them fleshed (hehe) out more to allow them to use multiple crafting stages and hard to find resources to make more powerful zombies/skeletons/undead.

I also like the idea of shadow magickers. It just made an odd amount of sense that in a world ruled by the harsh rays of the sun that a shadow elemental was a thing. I liked it. I thought it fit the theme.

Electricity magickers...eh...I could do without it. It seemed like a mix between pokemon and X-Men to me most of the time. Never could get behind it. I wouldn't mind seeing some of their spells leaked over into/assigned to other guilds though. Some of their spells were neat and interesting and fit the theme.

I don't even play magickers. I just felt for the reasons above these were good additions to the game even if I'm mostly going to be opposing them on an IC level.

[Suhuy]

I think it would be nice to take a break from spells that let you somehow spy on others. It gives regular people a chance to actually infiltrate a clan as a spy or traitor (a normal, "mundane" one) without being caught instantly. Let's face it, once one character knows something, it's not long before everyone in the game knows it and the cat is completely out of the bag. I think having certain magick guilds with certain spells out of the picture for a while gives the traditional Murder, Corruption, Betrayal slogan a chance to actually play out and run its course.

If any currently closed guilds are re-introduced in the new subguild format, it's my hope they do not come equipped with certain abilities that let you watch others in certain, unspecified ways. It's my opinion that their existence drives players away from wanting to do mean and nasty things.

[Desertman]

I think it would be nice to take a break from spells that let you somehow spy on others. It gives regular people a chance to actually infiltrate a clan as a spy or traitor (a normal, "mundane" one) without being caught instantly. Let's face it, once one character knows something, it's not long before everyone in the game knows it and the cat is completely out of the bag. I think having certain magick guilds with certain spells out of the picture for a while gives the traditional Murder, Corruption, Betrayal slogan a chance to actually play out and run its course.

If any currently closed guilds are re-introduced in the new subguild format, it's my hope they do not come equipped with certain abilities that let you watch others in certain, unspecified ways. It's my opinion that their existence drives players away from wanting to do mean and nasty things.

+1

[Miradus]

I think it would be nice to take a break from spells that let you somehow spy on others. It gives regular people a chance to actually infiltrate a clan as a spy or traitor (a normal, "mundane" one) without being caught instantly. Let's face it, once one character knows something, it's not long before everyone in the game knows it and the cat is completely out of the bag. I think having certain magick guilds with certain spells out of the picture for a while gives the traditional Murder, Corruption, Betrayal slogan a chance to actually play out and run its course.

If any currently closed guilds are re-introduced in the new subguild format, it's my hope they do not come equipped with certain abilities that let you watch others in certain, unspecified ways. It's my opinion that their existence drives players away from wanting to do mean and nasty things.

Um, I didn't know gicks could do that.

I'd conjecture that any plot suppression it causes doesn't come particularly from those abilities, but from having some of them be ACCEPTED by society. Gemmers particularly. I'm talking about gemmers.

If all gicks had to be rogue gicks, then if you came to someone with secret information you learned from Diku's "watch room" or something similar then you'd have to explain how you came to learn these secrets. There would be a risk in sharing the info, no matter how valuable or important it might be.

I have never played a true gick as they were removed before I ever had the karma. But from the gick subguilds available, I had a lot of fun playing one ... not from having some spells ... but from playing as a rogue outlaw hiding in the wilderness and trying to keep my presence secret. That was pretty awesome. I regret that a pack of tarantulas found me before a gick-hating player did.

[Suhuy]

I think it would be nice to take a break from spells that let you somehow spy on others. It gives regular people a chance to actually infiltrate a clan as a spy or traitor (a normal, "mundane" one) without being caught instantly. Let's face it, once one character knows something, it's not long before everyone in the game knows it and the cat is completely out of the bag. I think having certain magick guilds with certain spells out of the picture for a while gives the traditional Murder, Corruption, Betrayal slogan a chance to actually play out and run its course.

If any currently closed guilds are re-introduced in the new subguild format, it's my hope they do not come equipped with certain abilities that let you watch others in certain, unspecified ways. It's my opinion that their existence drives players away from wanting to do mean and nasty things.

Um, I didn't know gicks could do that.

I actually don't know if they can do that or not either. I'm only speculating based on what I've read in the open, public, available-to-all help files and drawn a few conclusions there.

If there are no such spells that let you do those sorts of things, then forget I said anything. If they do just so happen to exist, however, then maybe it's best to keep them out of the game for a while.

[Desertman]

I think it would be nice to take a break from spells that let you somehow spy on others. It gives regular people a chance to actually infiltrate a clan as a spy or traitor (a normal, "mundane" one) without being caught instantly. Let's face it, once one character knows something, it's not long before everyone in the game knows it and the cat is completely out of the bag. I think having certain magick guilds with certain spells out of the picture for a while gives the traditional Murder, Corruption, Betrayal slogan a chance to actually play out and run its course.

If any currently closed guilds are re-introduced in the new subguild format, it's my hope they do not come equipped with certain abilities that let you watch others in certain, unspecified ways. It's my opinion that their existence drives players away from wanting to do mean and nasty things.

Um, I didn't know gicks could do that.

I actually don't know if they can do that or not either. I'm only speculating based on what I've read in the open, public, available-to-all help files and drawn a few conclusions there.

If there are no such spells that let you do those sorts of things, then forget I said anything. If they do just so happen to exist, however, then maybe it's best to keep them out of the game for a while.

Also, if maybe these sorts of spells could maybe sort of exist or something like that, then maybe whoever gets the stolen information would just have to say, "Oh, a rinther I know found out and told me.", and then that pretty much covers the whole, "A gicker told me.", issue.

Most people don't care where you learn something so long as you are sharing the information with them.

[SuchDragonWow]

Make a subguild tree for quasi-elementals, make one touched, and then one each of Drov, Elkros and Nilaz.  Make them high karma.  Focus on the things that make those elements cool and leave out the derpy stuff.

[Jihelu]

Jihelu's magickal opinion on magick that you all asked for.




Make main guilds a thing again please I don't care about RUks that hit hard as warriors I just want death god.

[Armaddict]

No to Drovian, unless it's taking out certain super annoying spells to deal with.
Elkros is meh, alright?
Nilaz is plz.

[wizturbo]

If I could only pick one it would be Nilaz.

[Vwest]

Drov is one of the only magick guilds that interested me.

That said, as shadow spies they're simply unassailable and in my opinion did more harm than good. As much as I wanted to play one (even had an app approved when they were axed as an option...), I feel the game is a lot better off now that people need to do their spying the old fashioned way and with all the risk / second hand info / lost in translation that entails.

Like the Whiran 'throw you in the silt, fuck you' spell, I'd remove that spell from the game completely if Drovians were to make a return.

I'd probably make worms a lot less common than they are, too.

[TheWanderer]

Worms are far less common and have far more risks.

[Vwest]

Worms are far less common and have far more risks.

Not rare or risky enough for my tastes.

[TheWanderer]

Drovian: A class that's completely sanctioned by the state and a certain House, totally edges out mundane spies with no risk involved, and is in special app distance of anyone with one point of karma.

Mindbender: A class that's killed upon discovery (people found harboring them are usually punished, too), is hard-pressed to reveal information due to exposing itself, and only within reach of players five karma or up.

Fine as is, in my opinion. Sufficient risks and planning required, but also powerful enough to warrant being eight karma. I seriously doubt they're as widespread as you may think they are.

[TheWanderer]

You offset the power of a class with suitable risks and drawbacks. Drovians were a nuisance in Allanak and their removal is a decision I fully support.

[Vwest]

I seriously doubt they're as widespread as you may think they are.

[SuchDragonWow]

Yo.  I, too, am an expert on things of the internet.  According to the Arm wiki, things found in game are too damn high.  Please nerf everything

[TheWanderer]

I wish everybody would grow up and play warriors, but despite my impassioned pleas to staff, it's a dream far from reality. 

[LauraMars]

I think it would be nice to take a break from spells that let you somehow spy on others. It gives regular people a chance to actually infiltrate a clan as a spy or traitor (a normal, "mundane" one) without being caught instantly. Let's face it, once one character knows something, it's not long before everyone in the game knows it and the cat is completely out of the bag. I think having certain magick guilds with certain spells out of the picture for a while gives the traditional Murder, Corruption, Betrayal slogan a chance to actually play out and run its course.

If any currently closed guilds are re-introduced in the new subguild format, it's my hope they do not come equipped with certain abilities that let you watch others in certain, unspecified ways. It's my opinion that their existence drives players away from wanting to do mean and nasty things.

plus fucking one

pardon my french

[SuchDragonWow]

I wish everybody would grow up and play warriors, but despite my impassioned pleas to staff, it's a dream far from reality. 

Who in their right mind would play a warrior when you can play a ranger with fireball magic?  Oh, you're just goofing, I see what you did there

[TheWanderer]

but can a ranger with fireballs bash a motherfucker? I don't think so

[SuchDragonWow]

I bet I can type mon un fuck yo ass up before you can squeal and get out ba--  basssh suchd--  baaaaaaaa--  FLEE FLEE LFEEEE

[boog]

I think it would be nice to take a break from spells that let you somehow spy on others. It gives regular people a chance to actually infiltrate a clan as a spy or traitor (a normal, "mundane" one) without being caught instantly. Let's face it, once one character knows something, it's not long before everyone in the game knows it and the cat is completely out of the bag. I think having certain magick guilds with certain spells out of the picture for a while gives the traditional Murder, Corruption, Betrayal slogan a chance to actually play out and run its course.

If any currently closed guilds are re-introduced in the new subguild format, it's my hope they do not come equipped with certain abilities that let you watch others in certain, unspecified ways. It's my opinion that their existence drives players away from wanting to do mean and nasty things.

plus fucking one

pardon my french

plus fucking two

[Pale Horse]

I loved the me some Elkrosians, Drovians and Nilazi.

That said, I could see reasons for distributing their abilities amongst the other magicker sub-guilds for added flavor or as high-end branching spells.  Sort of how you might be able to tell the difference between your average warrior/krathi with a fireballs spell vs a master warrior/master krathi with a fireball spell and a thunderbolt spell.  One's honed their ability with magick enough that they're branching into powers not normally seen in the average gicker.

I also say combine Drovians and Nilazi into a mixed grouping of sub-guilds.  That way, they are the fun-murdering, terror-inducing fell creatures that everyone complains about on the GDB.  Griefers can play them, everyone else can scream "Your fun is not my fun and is there for wrong!"  Win-win.

[TheWanderer]

I bet I can type mon un fuck yo ass up before you can squeal and get out ba--  basssh suchd--  baaaaaaaa--  FLEE FLEE LFEEEE

Code Select Expand

flee (novice)

[Erythil]

I have an idea for a change to drovian spying that would make them more balanced, but it would require new code and an extensive discussion of their mechanics that is probably not allowed on the forums.

With NO spying capacity, it's hard to see why anyone would want to play one -- they don't have any other really cool stuff in their kit imho.

[Majikal]

nilaz,, yesh!

Fuck the rest!

[Iiyola]

nilaz,, yesh!

Fuck the rest!

[Reiloth]

Fuck Drovians. Plot ruiners.

[SuchDragonWow]

... they don't have any other really cool stuff in their kit imho.

[Majikal]

... they don't have any other really cool stuff in their kit imho.

The most terrifying of powers, controlling the elements, then a scrub goes and...

es torch

[BadSkeelz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ussCHoQttyQ

[gotdamnmiracle]

I think these characters should be role call and staff only, after some internal deliberation. Nilaz seems like as much a mover and shaker as any defiler. Elkros and Drov, just seem more rare and I would be fine if they got broken down into sub guilds of spread across the existing ones.

[SuchDragonWow]

es torch

I did not know mundane light could pierce magickal darkness, I only played a Drov type for a few weeks.  I don't even know if that's a legit conversation you can have on the GDB, though.  I guess I did like a few of their utility spells, though.  As a standalone guild, you'd think, "Man, where's the cookie?  OH I CAN DO THAT!"  But if you ditched the cheese spells, and gave those utility spells to a mundane guild, then you've got something pretty rad.

Unless, you know, some rando beotch can just es torch lol

[wizturbo]

I have an idea for a change to drovian spying that would make them more balanced, but it would require new code and an extensive discussion of their mechanics that is probably not allowed on the forums.

With NO spying capacity, it's hard to see why anyone would want to play one -- they don't have any other really cool stuff in their kit imho.

With mundane skills to back them up they do.

[Morrolan]

Drovian was about the only magicker guild I played regularly. Played well, it can drive plots forward and really add to the game.

I never liked the lower karma requirement when it was moved from six karma to four. It always seemed to be very powerful. A krathi might kill you. A drovian can ruin your whole plot.

[MeTekillot]

Yeah, they can really untie the KNOT of your plot.

[Vositus]

No to Drovian, unless it's taking out certain super annoying spells to deal with.
Elkros is meh, alright?
Nilaz is plz.

nilaz,, yesh!

Fuck the rest!

[Chettaman]

I want to say that I really enjoy this new subguild thing. While I definitely still think the main guilds should return, the sub guilds are cool because I like being able to play as completely normal people.

I say bring them on! I think, though there should be a slight change to how drovians work. I have no experience with drovians, but I guess their ability to spy is a problem for everyone.
A nilazian whatever... could you imagine one with any real skill in combat? I'm terrified and I want it.
Elkrosians are cool to me too. I mean... you all gave me the ability to make a warrior rukkian. If that doesn't frighten you, then elkrosian should be fine.

[flurry]

I never liked the lower karma requirement when it was moved from six karma to four. It always seemed to be very powerful. A krathi might kill you. A drovian can ruin your whole plot.

A few thoughts come to mind after reading this (not specifically directed at you).

In my experience, a character's death tends to put a damper on their plots, too. Could anyone even put a number on how many plots have been dismantled by Whirans?

The nature of a plot is that it has obstacles and complications. Otherwise it's not a plot. If a plot is robust it can recover from bumps in the road. If a plot is fragile, well, move on to something else.

Just as there are steps people can take to mitigate the effects of pickpockets, there are steps to mitigate the effects of other guilds, both mundane and otherwise.

[Jihelu]

I feel like ruining a plot is less 'bad' than killing someone.
Ruining a plot can lead to a lot of things, like other plots.
So can killing someone, but thats one less person to plot against you!

[Chettaman]

I recently ruined someone's plot and I really wish I hadn't.
I'll apologize to you in due time. This is me saying, I know... we could of been something great.

I think killing this person would of been much better of a plot than just ruining their plot completely. I wasn't a drovian, mind you, but still. That's my piece about ruining a well thought-out plot.

One is like, "Bam, mutha-what?! Now you're dead, suckuh! What you gonna do? Nothin'! Ha!"
and the other is like, "Now I have to sit at this bar and be miserable knowing that I could of been king. We could of been in love and now we're just strangers in this effed up world."
it's torture, man.

[lostinspace]

Everyone is saying drovians ruin plots and don't want them back in, but really, they might already be there. When the update hit they made it clear they wouldn't be force storing characters or anything of the sort. For all you know a Drovian is watching your current plot unfold. I'd like the main guilds added back, but barring that, I'd really like for subguilds to be made, and people still playing main guilds to be brought into line, but that's just me.

[Beethoven]

I have such mixed feelings about Drovians.

On the one hand it feels so much better not constantly worrying if there's some Drovian you can't really do anything about watching you at a given time.

On the other hand, it always seemed like there were so many secrets out there with Drov, and it made the world feel so much bigger and stranger. Like I said to staff in a letter I wrote after the changes, the existence of Drov and Drovians tells you something about this world of Zalanthas that the "standard" elements don't really illustrate. The same can be said of Nilaz, but even more so.

I want Drovians added back in, I think, but subguilded and with some tweaks. I'm not sure what those tweaks should be, but I hate to see them gone forever just because one spell could be pretty bullshit depending on who used it.

[Norcal]

I have such mixed feelings about Drovians.

On the one hand it feels so much better not constantly worrying if there's some Drovian you can't really do anything about watching you at a given time.

On the other hand, it always seemed like there were so many secrets out there with Drov, and it made the world feel so much bigger and stranger. Like I said to staff in a letter I wrote after the changes, the existence of Drov and Drovians tells you something about this world of Zalanthas that the "standard" elements don't really illustrate. The same can be said of Nilaz, but even more so.

I want Drovians added back in, I think, but subguilded and with some tweaks. I'm not sure what those tweaks should be, but I hate to see them gone forever just because one spell could be pretty bullshit depending on who used it.

This.

[lostinspace]

depending on who used it.

Just bump it up to karma six, then only trusted players could play it, problem solved.

[Lizzie]

For Nilaz - I'd like to see it at 6 karma BUT require it to be either special app or "invitation only by staff." Yes, favoritism. That's basically what special apps are anyway - you're trusting staff to decide whether or not you *should* have a role that's above your pay grade. I'm okay with that, even if it means I'd get rejected for the role if I applied.

I'd like to see Nilaz restored as a full guild, though. Not a subguild. Same with sorcerer and psionicist. These three should always require a special app (or sponsored invitation-only) AND require high karma to play.

As for Drov and Elkros, I'd be fine if some of the spells of each were simply distributed as the staff suggested would be happening in previous posts on the GDB.

[Morrolan]

... just because one spell could be pretty bullshit depending on who used it.

That spell could easily be nerfed without being gone.

[Malifaxis]

I think putting all these spells where they currently are in game is fucking brilliant.

wizturbo the wizturrible, you know I usually have your back bruh, but this is so "the opposite of cool" that my balls will thaw sometime in the year 3572.

[AdamBlue]

I just wanna be...
The very best...
That no one ever was.
RAISING DEAD IS MY QUEST
TO NECROMANCER IS MY CAUSE
I WILL TRAVEL
ACROSS THE LAND
REZZING FAR AND WIDE
TEACH THE WASTES TO UNDERSTAND
THE POWER THAT'S INSIDE
NECROMANCE!
A HEART BLACK AND BLUUUE
YOUR HORROR WILL SEE ME THROUGH
FUCK WITH ME AND I'LL END YOU
NEC-RO-MAAAAAAANCE
GOTTA REZ 'EM ALL
GOTTA REZ 'EM ALL
NECROMANCE

[bardlyone]

Anyone who can't figure on how to get around drovian spying has never played a drovian. It's far too easy to thwart "that spell" - it is literally as easy as lighting a torch thwarted magickal dark.

[Armaddict]

Anyone who can't figure on how to get around drovian spying has never played a drovian. It's far too easy to thwart "that spell" - it is literally as easy as lighting a torch thwarted magickal dark.

Which would lead to a discussion on meta-knowledge of how to counter that spell and bad roleplay points.

It's just not a good thing to have around the game, when there are plenty of people trying to perform that role already.

[Jihelu]

If you wanna counter magick, go ask a magicker. Then they'll tell you some nifty shits..


The mind worms are the fuckers you gotta watch out for.

[bardlyone]

Anyone who can't figure on how to get around drovian spying has never played a drovian. It's far too easy to thwart "that spell" - it is literally as easy as lighting a torch thwarted magickal dark.

Which would lead to a discussion on meta-knowledge of how to counter that spell and bad roleplay points.

It's just not a good thing to have around the game, when there are plenty of people trying to perform that role already.

I don't see how it's bad roleplay to whisper when you think someone's listening to you, but if you want to tell me, I'm all ears.

[nauta]

Uhhhhhh.  No magick secrets.

[bardlyone]

I really hope that's not being directed at me, given that any time any of my characters think someone might be listening, they tend to whisper what they have to say - that's not specific to drovians. That's because the person who wants to hear it has to be LISTENing, and it makes it a lot harder to catch all of it. Magick, mundane, or otherwise.

[Inks]

I would probably rather all their spells were divided between sorcerer subs.

[Armaddict]

Uhm.

If all of spying was about the listen skill, then it would be really easy to find information gatherers.

I literally cannot count the number of times that 'This dude and this dude were talking in this place, where one of those dudes isn't normally supposed to be' has actually led somewhere, and that's as someone relying on stealth and unable to get close.

Edit to add: Am I the only one who tries to puzzle things together with incomplete information?  Sometimes when people ask you to spy, they aren't asking you to figure out an entire plot as much as provide them a bunch of details that look meaningless until you put them together like puzzle pieces.  Or rather...until they put together the pieces.

[Inks]

Yeah, I prefer the game without Drovians, the other two I don't mind at all. Pretty much for the reasons Armaddict said.

[Lizzie]

Uhm.

If all of spying was about the listen skill, then it would be really easy to find information gatherers.

I literally cannot count the number of times that 'This dude and this dude were talking in this place, where one of those dudes isn't normally supposed to be' has actually led somewhere, and that's as someone relying on stealth and unable to get close.

Edit to add: Am I the only one who tries to puzzle things together with incomplete information?  Sometimes when people ask you to spy, they aren't asking you to figure out an entire plot as much as provide them a bunch of details that look meaningless until you put them together like puzzle pieces.  Or rather...until they put together the pieces.

All the time! I even did it when I played a drovian. I'd pop into the middle of something and catch the end of it without context. Then I'd go and report my interpretation of what was going on, to whoever I report to. My interpretation was always based on what I -thought- I was observing/hearing/whatevering. It was often wrong. And that was always fun. Exact same thing happens when I'm playing someone with uber listen skill, or totally awesome scan skill, or mondo magick skills that let you see all kinds of shit no one else can see, or simply be capable of going places most people can't go.

I always give them my character's perspective of what's going on, even if *I* the player know the actual facts and those facts aren't the same as the PC's perspective.

[Beethoven]

I love the flavor of Drovians. I think they can be altered to make great subguilds. Please don't write them off just because of the way they were because they could be changed and tweaked as the staff sees fit.

[Armaddict]

I admit, I didn't consider them being revamped first before being readded.

They've been this way for so long that I just didn't even put thought that perhaps someone creative would find a new way for shadows to be powerful in Arm.

I just know that particular thing was always...irritating.  I hated the line 'A drovian told me...' because it was something that was never questionable, despite them being the 'deceitful ones!' by documentation.  They were, simply put, the ones you wanted to send to spy on everything.  I want you guys to rely on the burglar to get through those doors, not a spell.

That's...kind of my theme for magick altogether.  I want the playerbase to -rely- on the mundane skills.  I want the spell to be an option that you're really not sure you're okay with using.  If you do use it, it's for desperation.

Derailing Story: I remember my noble getting pissed off in the copper wars because the vivaduans were making oasises (oasi?) for people to bathe in.  Just a total 'GET YOUR ASS OUT OF OUR DRINKING WATER YOU FILTHY FALE.' (or whatever it was).  He was already unnerved by the entire supply being dependent on mages...to see it being frivolously used for luxury without batting an eyelash was so mean to me.  Sadface.

[Beethoven]

Oases

[Taven]

I just wanna be...
The very best...
That no one ever was.
RAISING DEAD IS MY QUEST
TO NECROMANCER IS MY CAUSE
I WILL TRAVEL
ACROSS THE LAND
REZZING FAR AND WIDE
TEACH THE WASTES TO UNDERSTAND
THE POWER THAT'S INSIDE
NECROMANCE!
A HEART BLACK AND BLUUUE
YOUR HORROR WILL SEE ME THROUGH
FUCK WITH ME AND I'LL END YOU
NEC-RO-MAAAAAAANCE
GOTTA REZ 'EM ALL
GOTTA REZ 'EM ALL
NECROMANCE

I approve of this song. I was entertained.


On the subject at hand, my first choice is subguild Nilazi. They're the one magicker that everyone, everywhere, across the Known fears and hates. They're so bad that even Allanak won't gem them. They have the potential to be not merely scary, but horrifying.

I would also like to see Elkrosians and Drovians back in the game, from a perspective of how they round out the magickal lore. It's extremely interesting the balances found within all the elements and what each can do.

I don't have a lot of first-hand understanding of drovian spells, but if they are as adept at ruining plots as everyone says, then it would make sense to have them revised before getting added back in to the game.

Basically, I'd love to see magick subguilds for the elements which were cut.

[BadSkeelz]

On the subject at hand, my first choice is subguild Nilazi. They're the one magicker that everyone, everywhere, across the Known fears and hates.* They're so bad that even Allanak won't gem them. They have the potential to be not merely scary, but horrifying.

Theoretically. Too often I saw them befriended for their utility by Sorcerers, Mindworms, or other Elementalists.

Nilazi had a lot of spells they probably shouldn't have had. I'd only like to see them returned if they were reworked in to a stricter Void mage and a true antithesis of life and other Elements, and not the lame counter-intuitive hodgepodge they were.

[Jihelu]

I'd like to see nilazi subguild a really flesh them out. One for necromancy etc