Player Magnet

[Lizzie]

Players airing their grievances like this is always shitty - even if staff are in the wrong. Always the usual bickering between cliques over it.

Obviously would be solved by better communication on the part of both parties, but when one party refuses to because they feel the other wronged them - and refuses to publicly to try make a point, it goes all petty. Grow up people. If there's miscommunication, fix it like adults.

Yup, and that is one of the things that can repel new players. You want to attract new players, then don't post about why you DON'T play anymore, on a thread that asks for suggestions about how to attract more players. The fact that the staff has allowed it to stay in this thread is testament of their patience and tolerance, frankly.

Better communication doesn't really apply to new players though. New players have no frame of reference. They have basically no actual communication with staff at all, yet. All they have is an account and a first application.

What I think -would- be helpful, is if the old "review" were still used by staff to watch new players with their first RL week's worth of play. No matter how many or few characters they have during those 7 days - at least one e-mail from staff letting them know *something* - about their play. "I saw you RPing with your mount this morning, I enjoyed that, keep it up!" or "Two days ago you were arguing with your character's brand new boss. That's fine, but you might want to explore -why- your character has a problem with authority. For some tips on bringing your character's desires and peeves to life, try "help think" and "help mood" and the new "whisper self" command."

Or something like that.

Just a first head's up in the first week of the account's existence, to encourage new players to continue doing great, or to check a help file or direct them to request tool and the helper chat if it looks like they're having trouble with anything.

[seidhr]

He's given his side of the story, then there's the other side of the story.  As I've already explained we (staff) don't do the whole public airing of grievances (Festivus?) on the GDB anymore, and I've explained why.  Suffice to say that were I to explain the staff's perspective it would be different than how he's explained it from his angle.

Miradus, you are welcome to play again anytime you like, perhaps after a day or two of perspective have set in - or you at least are willing to chalk it up to a difference of opinion, which we do allow here.

Everybody else:  Let's take the snark level down as much as we can - it's not too much to ask, is it?

[Blur]

How disgusting toxic this community still is towards each other. Even towards new people who have grown up in a culture that encourages them to speak out their mind openly. I can't really imagine anyone coming here, reading some of these posts, and thinking, yeah these are people I want to invest my time to play with.

[Reiloth]

 

I'd say grow thicker skin! The internet, the world really, is full of opinions. We don't need to be soft and sympathetic to every single person's supposed plight. I think people should just play the game if they like playing the game, really. If a couple opinionated people touting their internet knowledge turns people off from playing a game...Eh. I'd say they weren't going to stick around in the first place. Do you guys even remember Carnage???

OT, I think original submissions being fixed/easy to access/easy to use and search through would go a long way towards magnetizing players and keeping players. I know when I first started playing, it was very fun to read through past logs and stories (both fictional and true) and would inspire me to play or make my own stories.

[Armaddict]

There's something to be said for players of the now-era being higher maintenance than before.  Before we were often left to our own devices, left to challenge the game for survival, and if we cheated?  BLAM!  Character gone.  Bans were left for interactions between players and staff.  Twinking?  You got away with it...until you didn't, and the soldiers you were killing reacted by calling in the half-giants, or whatever.

I want to say deal with it.  I do.  But in the spirit of actually retaining people, I don't think that's the healthiest way to go.  We can't have it both ways.  So Lizzie's idea might be helpful, particularly in cases like this where a heads up that death shouldn't be this common, and here are some things you can do to avoid it based off what you're doing.  Yes, high maintenance, but...well, how far do we think we should go, as far as attracting and holding new players?  I know Lizzie wants the expectation high on players.  Figure it out.  Enjoy the struggle.  If you don't enjoy the struggle and the hardness, this isn't the game for you.  I'm more often than not in that camp as well.

Overall, I think Lizzie's idea might at least push things in the right direction.  Expecting everyone to be exactly what we need without active, real feedback is a pretty high bar to have, and I don't think that feedback needs to be coupled with negative punishment, or with phrases like 'We're actively not approving your character'.  That just...pushes things in the wrong direction.  Of course that will lead to bad blood, who wouldn't see that coming?  Hell.  An approval with an attached message of 'This is your last approval for the day and I'd like you to open this kind of request to discuss some habits of yours' is better than the sudden shutdown.  (note that this is not snarking at staff, but leading into the question below)

But that question does need to be addressed of not only just how much we want to expect out of a new(er) player, but also how far you want to go in molding them towards the expectation the game has.  This will allow us to set up realistic goals as far as how to attract them.  TMC attracts people who are -not- used to this level of demand on living in character.  So does TMS.  Are we going to promote an air of permissiveness in effort to move things the right way for less-inclined players to adjust to, or snark them off the board and tell them to come back when they can do it our way?  If the objective is to find new players, the next step is to decide what bar we set as far as behavior, and how hard we come down on breaches of it.

While I empathize with you, Miradus, your decision to leave is your own.  I regret that you got what you got, but in all seriousness, what you got wasn't really that bad (Did I ever tell you I was banished to a room without exits for 2 days of playing time to read helpfiles and not use skills because of multi-playing?  I got to hang out with staffers who came and visited me during that time and talked, at least).  Player applications can take time to approve, and having to wait a day isn't so bad, even if the note telling you so is less than friendly.  I'd hope that you could read through the imperiousness and receive the message.  You're a smart fella.  But more than anything else, whether you go or stay, I'd like to use it as a force for us to do our own exploring, in what we do and don't want to accept in the name of player growth (and thus, maybe, also put the thread back on track) as well as how to best 'adapt' people to the high standard that Armageddon has.

[Reiloth]

True. I remember my wife trying to play the game, and the learning curve was so abysmally hard for her, that she gave up very quickly. She's a nerd, loves Fantasy, loves Dark Sun even as a D&D campaign setting -- So there is definitely a disconnect here somewhere. She'd be a perfect player in some senses, but the syntax was just too hard for her.

I of course grew up playing MUDs at nutrition and lunch time in the Library when I was in middle school and high school. So all of the things like 'i' for inventory and 'l in bag' come very naturally to me. But for her, she couldn't even drink from a waterskin. Or get it filled. A lot of these little code syntax snafus can be a major turn off for a new player.

It'd be interesting to poll new players, or find a way to get them to answer some questions the third or fourth time they log in. What's easy about playing the game? What's hard? That sort of thing might be helpful to figure out.

[Dresan]

I think the hardest part about this game is finding someone that won't ignore you that is willing to teach you a thing or two ICly about the game or at least help keep you interested enough until you find a clan so they can teach you.


I have a idea though how about we treat new players with a bit more consideration? As Armaddict says in the spirit of player rentention.  Considering they are probably fustrated at shitty stuff we've come to understand or rather accept about the game. Instead of just sounding like hypocrites as we post ideas about how to keep new players after treating one like shit? Thicker skin and all.

[Reiloth]

I think the hardest part about this game is finding someone that won't ignore you that is willing to teach you a thing or two ICly about the game or at least help keep you interested enough until you find a clan so they can teach you.


I have a idea though how about we treat new players with a bit more consideration? As Armaddict says in the spirit of player rentention.  Considering they are probably fustrated at shitty stuff we've come to understand or rather accept about the game. Instead of just sounding like hypocrites as we post ideas about how to keep new players after treating one like shit? Thicker skin and all.

I mean, take what you want from what people say, basically. If you want to be offended, be offended. But I don't think we 'owe' new players a shoulder to cry on. Maybe that's just the Grizzled Scarred Old Vet that I am, but I don't think a lot of this stuff is a big deal. I can understand they are maybe frustrated with Staff, but that should mean they talk to Staff about it, not air their dirty laundry on the GDB to rally a 'cause' to their side.

[Dresan]

I think the hardest part about this game is finding someone that won't ignore you that is willing to teach you a thing or two ICly about the game or at least help keep you interested enough until you find a clan so they can teach you.


I have a idea though how about we treat new players with a bit more consideration? As Armaddict says in the spirit of player rentention.  Considering they are probably fustrated at shitty stuff we've come to understand or rather accept about the game. Instead of just sounding like hypocrites as we post ideas about how to keep new players after treating one like shit? Thicker skin and all.

I'd say grow thicker skin! The internet, the world really, is full of opinions.

[Reiloth]

I think the hardest part about this game is finding someone that won't ignore you that is willing to teach you a thing or two ICly about the game or at least help keep you interested enough until you find a clan so they can teach you.


I have a idea though how about we treat new players with a bit more consideration? As Armaddict says in the spirit of player rentention.  Considering they are probably fustrated at shitty stuff we've come to understand or rather accept about the game. Instead of just sounding like hypocrites as we post ideas about how to keep new players after treating one like shit? Thicker skin and all.

I'd say grow thicker skin! The internet, the world really, is full of opinions.

*taps the Maxid microphone*

MY POSITION IS UNASSAILABLE...!

*coughs*

In all seriousness, who cares. Play the game, or don't.

[RogueGunslinger]

You're literally in a thread about retaining people. We care. If you don't there's really no need to post then is there?

[Jihelu]

"Play the game, or don't."
Thats how every garrysmod community I had been apart of had died.
Then again, different types of games.

[Raptor_Dan]

I'm not trying to add conjecture about Miradus' experience when I say this: If a delay in playing ARM seems like a punishment, then Arm is doing /something/ right.

I AM an explorer, the worst part about the change in the magick classes, is that I'm not sure if I'll get to explore as much as I did. I found some amazing things, and sometimes, hoping for an explanation or elaboration on what in the hell those things were, is one of the reasons I keep hopping back on. I keep wanting to add conjecture to the stuff Miradus said, though. I think it's because it's really interesting, and I have a lot feelings and things I want to address, so, let's see if I can resolve that some other way. Ummm...

Okay. Staff to player communication is really, really tricky. One person can see a word, and interpret it as a different word with different implications, and be upset, when those implications weren't there to begin with. Maybe there are some ways we can work on that aspect of player retention? Communication? I certainly know I'm freaking awful at it, at times. What else was there...

Aha! Seidhr suggested at one point, opening a request to resolve issues that were brought up. I believe the response was basically 'I know how it's going to go'. I've felt like this, up until someone I knew got on staff and I was like, wait a minute.... You're a really complex person. And you have to interact with strangers through text? Is that going to go well? Maybe it did, maybe it didn't, but that was one of the first times I fully comprehended that staff were multi-faceted, complex individuals, and that you can have many different types of interaction, the majority of them likely unpredictable.

It may or may not be a great idea, but I'd like to hear what staff and players think about the staff having profiles? By profiles, I don't mean a summary of their contact information, a signature, and their local time. I mean a place dedicated to expressing themselves however they like, posting pictures, airing their own (non game sensitive) grievances or ideas. I would like to see more of staff, because as it is, I barely know anything about any of them at all. Facelessness usually breeds fear or contempt.

I'm going to add to this thread even more later, but right now, I need some sleeeep. Good luck keeping the convo going, it's an interesting read so far.

[SuchDragonWow]

I really don't agree with a lot of opinions here.  What you've got here is a game that's the mental equivalent of reading the Tetragrammaton in wingdings font, and you want people to play your archaic game, but please, only the people who are playing the way we want, but of course, we did tell you what we want, can't you read wingdings font?!

Of course, I'd be happy to offer constructive opinions of my own, but I think you've gotta get over this hump of ostracizing new players.  I haven't played with this Miradus guy, but judging from his forum persona, I do think there's a loss.  If these are the kinds of interesting, creative players you're willing to push away, what do you actually want?

[Malken]

Miradus, we used to talk about these sort of between-the-player-and-the-staff things in the open air on the GDB sometimes, but we don't any longer, because almost always gets ugly and nobody needs their dirty laundry aired here.

I don't recall a time when this was ever a thing, even though pretty much everyone (staff excluded) agreed that it should have been.

[650Booger]

*edit, removed comment to Miradus, my input isnt needed*
*edited again to add a few 'magnets' that have kept me here, in case a new player perspective is helpful*

I confess that within less than a year I've abandoned my other MMO (EVE online) and play Arm almost exclusively now!

Things that have kept me here:
1. RPI.  This makes Arm a total escape from IRL.  I love that I don't have to hear about the dallas shootings, or the seahawks score, or anything like that while I play.  Immersiveness.
2. Open PK. I love that I have to worry about every character's motives, and be in a constant low-level state of paranoia about whether they intend to kill me.
3. Permadeath.  This levels the playing field.  I love that, code and map knowledge aside, a character whose player who has been here for 2 decades has no advantages over my character.  In other MMOs, long-time players have accumulated so much wealth that it is impossible to ever compete with them.
4. This game is brutal AF.  I love that it is so hard to live.  I love that it is a challenge just to keep my characters fed and watered.  I love that there are mega-fauna within just a few rooms of the gates that can easily squish me if I play stupidly.
5. The players.  Goes without saying, ya'll are some of the best gamers I've interacted with.
6. Mudsex (see #5).

[Jihelu]

Miradus, we used to talk about these sort of between-the-player-and-the-staff things in the open air on the GDB sometimes, but we don't any longer, because almost always gets ugly and nobody needs their dirty laundry aired here.

I don't recall a time when this was ever a thing, even though pretty much everyone (staff excluded) agreed that it should have been.

I also was not around for a time, if it was a thing.
I do recall a post saying the same thing Seidhr did though, of why they don't openly adress things.

[RogueGunslinger]

There were 2-3 instances I can think of where staff-player back and forth on the GDB stirred up a shit-storm. Multiple people suggested they stop doing that and they did.

[Jihelu]

There were 2-3 instances I can think of where staff-player back and forth on the GDB stirred up a shit-storm. Multiple people suggested they stop doing that and they did.

Ah. I just didn't recall one is all.
Then again my breaks are strange.

[Reiloth]

Kronibas and Asanadas are the two that stand out in my mind. It just doesn't help anyone to air dirty laundry/grievances on the GDB. It ends up ugly on both sides, IMHO.

[Majikal]

So just in case people forgot.

How should we attract/keep more players towards Armageddon?

[Malken]

How should we attract/keep more players towards Armageddon?

My dance studio has what they call "guest night" where, once a night, they make it super extra cool and awesome for new people in the hope that said new people will stick around hoping that it's cool like that all the time.

I'd say we should have a once a week super cool fun night with events going on and advertise it to newbies has -the- night you want to log in if you're thinking of trying Armageddon but that would require "fun and cool stuff" to happen on said date and time.

[Norcal]

So just in case people forgot.

How should we attract/keep more players towards Armageddon?

Said it before and I will say it again.  Expand the newb area and let staff or trusted players set up distinct avatars (for the help area only) there to help newbs with syntax, rules and rp in general. It would be an OOC place, yet still with IC descriptions etc.  

It would be staffed by players like the help channel is. Kind of like an in game, animated version of helper chat.

You don't -have- to go there at start up, yet it would be an option for -all- players at all times, using a simple command (like to go get your scars added).

The only problem I see with this, is that players might end up seeing/meeting each other there. Yet I think this is preferable to using a lot of OOC in game.

Right now if I want to help someone in game, I try and use the way.  Yet I have had new players pass out doing that. Must be a better way (no pun intended).

How should we attract/keep more players towards Armageddon?

My dance studio has what they call "guest night" where, once a night, they make it super extra cool and awesome for new people in the hope that said new people will stick around hoping that it's cool like that all the time.

Teach me to dance!

[HavokBlue]

So just in case people forgot.

How should we attract/keep more players towards Armageddon?

Said it before and I will say it again.  Expand the newb area and let staff or trusted players set up distinct avatars (for the help area only) there to help newbs with syntax, rules and rp in general. It would be an OOC place, yet still with IC descriptions etc.  

It would be staffed by players like the help channel is. Kind of like an in game, animated version of helper chat.

You don't -have- to go there at start up, yet it would be an option for -all- players at all times, using a simple command (like to go get your scars added).

The only problem I see with this, is that players might end up seeing/meeting each other there. Yet I think this is preferable to using a lot of OOC in game.

Right now if I want to help someone in game, I try and use the way.  Yet I have had new players pass out doing that. Must be a better way (no pun intended).

How should we attract/keep more players towards Armageddon?

My dance studio has what they call "guest night" where, once a night, they make it super extra cool and awesome for new people in the hope that said new people will stick around hoping that it's cool like that all the time.

Teach me to dance!

I believe staff members receive an alert any time a new player logs in for the first time and a couple of them have mentioned in the past that they hop in to check on newbies in the starter area.

[Lizzie]

Norcal's idea is the same as how they had it in Shadows of Isildur's OOC area. That was definitely one of the things about that game that I really liked. Expanding the Hall of Kings to include a lounge - and if you exit from the game and are a helper, you have an added option on your exit menu to hop into the OOC lounge to check on new players. You'd be there as some nondescript something - a generic elf, or generic human or something (I think SoI had trolls but the concept is the same).