Too Static World Setting

[Barsook]

Before someone says, "be the change", or even, "found out IC", this isn't really just a player problem, it's also a staff problem.  Yes, I just said that, but please staff, don't take offense, just giving ideas/comments here.

I finished the Mistborn series and I was amazed at how the world changed from defeating/killing the Lord Ruler to recreating the world before the Lord Ruler into a world close to 19th century 1st world countries.  Yes, I know that the Known doesn't had that much metal, but that's not the point here.  The point here is that I don't feel like the world hasn't changed at all regardless of the events from the last HRPT.  Yes, there were changes at least in Tuluk (sorry, I spent my last two years in Tuluk before it closed), but I didn't feel any real changes in Tuluk.  Sure, the barriers and such to keep the outsiders from the center of Tuluk and also the Noble House events.  But I feel like something else was lacking.  Something more major to really make a bigger change because I feel like it was only focused on Tuluk forgetting that Allanak was a threat.  Again, the barriers, yes, but no real war (which we covered in a topic about the time after the HRPT).

Sorry for the ramble there, but even without the war and to the point of closing Tuluk's gates, I feel like there is no major change in the setting of ArmMUD.  Allanak is still Allanak, in the city's ways.  Yes, maybe the changes to the Templars might help, but we haven't seen one in game yet.  I know that someone pointed out that there is no news from Tuluk reaching the Known and I agree that that's what is needed.  Then staff could make a secret role call for this concept, but that could just lead to Tuluk reopening which the Staff don't want.

Because Tuluk is closed, the staff started to focus on the Tablelands, and again no news of what is happening is reaching other places of the Known.  I don't if the idea of news could help to create plots and even change the world in a larger scale.

Anyways, I think the Known World setting is too static to me.  Maybe it's because the playerbase grown up and many don't have that much time to play or we just need that next HRPT.

Or be the change, 'Sook

[Malken]

You know there's a growing problem with Arm when even sweet innocent Russian bot sent to kill us all Barsook thinks Arm is getting dull heheh.

[Yam]

I chose other. I like the static backdrop. I think players in general are a little too gunshy about causing trouble, hurting, and killing other characters.

[Miradus]

I don't have any way of answering this question.

Since I started playing, I have not maintained any one character long enough to ever have made a real impact on the game world. However I notice that when I die and roll up a new character and log on into the bar, I see some of the same characters who were there months and months ago. And I haven't seen where THEY have made any impact on the game world either. Is it happening and I just don't hear about it or see any real change? Or is it not happening?

From an outsider perspective who doesn't really interface with many others, I got a little irritated when I see that sponsored role come up awhile back for a leader of the Guild, the crime syndicate boss.

I thought at the time, "Are there NO criminal-types who have worked hard and could receive that job as part of a quest line? Or even someone who hadn't worked hard but might be given the opportunity to bump off the boss and take over?" If I had been playing as some minor part of that organization at the time and that call went out, I would have been super-pissed off that they would completely disregard everyone in the storyline and just insta-create some new character and give him all the skills, contacts, and power.

So based on that, I sort of came to the conclusion that the game world is static as far as players are concerned and a little more fluid where the staff is concerned. And I don't really think I approve of that. I feel like a one-legged man in a marathon. I may not win, but I demand that I be allowed to compete.

[Norcal]

Some cataclysmic change is needed.

We have more conflict happening, more danger, gith are more of a presence/ problem yet outside of the volcano changing places, there have been no major world changers...like the Tuluki flood and the arrival of Kryl.

That could be the direction staff are going as well and that they are working to prepare the way now, by revamping guilds and subguilds and cleaning up much of the code. I don't know. Be nice to have a peek at their current long term vision.

[lostinspace]

I chose other. I like the static backdrop. I think players in general are a little too gunshy about causing trouble, hurting, and killing other characters.

I feel this is bred from the system, specifically, because no one does this, when someone does everyone jumps at the chance to help track them down, find out about them, etc. The end result is a week later the trouble maker is dead and you're right back where you started. This combined with the grind to becoming actually deadly to other players on a new character just makes it unrealistic. Nobody wants to put a bunch of work into something they will essentially be throwing away.

However, I have made a character with the idea that they would cause trouble for others and be dead inside of 2-3 days played. I was moderately successful, had some of the most fun I've ever had, and I like to think generated some plot for others. I encourage all of you to make a throw away character after your current one dies, and to go out and punch a member of the Arm/ insult a noble/ get yourself in trouble. You really won't have much to lose and will make a lot of fun for others, and possibly yourself. Those Arm PCs need someone to track down.

[nauta]

Some cataclysmic change is needed.

We have more conflict happening, more danger, gith are more of a presence/ problem yet outside of the volcano changing places, there have been no major world changers...like the Tuluki flood and the arrival of Kryl.

That could be the direction staff are going as well and that they are working to prepare the way now, by revamping guilds and subguilds and cleaning up much of the code. I don't know. Be nice to have a peek at their current long term vision.

Biowizard halflings with flying whale skimmers.  And snow.

[Yam]

I chose other. I like the static backdrop. I think players in general are a little too gunshy about causing trouble, hurting, and killing other characters.

I feel this is bred from the system, specifically, because no one does this, when someone does everyone jumps at the chance to help track them down, find out about them, etc. The end result is a week later the trouble maker is dead and you're right back where you started. This combined with the grind to becoming actually deadly to other players on a new character just makes it unrealistic. Nobody wants to put a bunch of work into something they will essentially be throwing away.

However, I have made a character with the idea that they would cause trouble for others and be dead inside of 2-3 days played. I was moderately successful, had some of the most fun I've ever had, and I like to think generated some plot for others. I encourage all of you to make a throw away character after your current one dies, and to go out and punch a member of the Arm/ insult a noble/ get yourself in trouble. You really won't have much to lose and will make a lot of fun for others, and possibly yourself. Those Arm PCs need someone to track down.

I think long term conflict is needed and that it needs to be driven by skilled, long-lived PCs. I've played over 100 characters in Arm, and a good number have been the 2-3 days played minor antagonists. I think those are great but I think the game tends to miss long lived antagonists. There have been a few notable ones in the past though and overall I think the game is in a pretty good state. Shit's goin' down.

[valeria]

I finished the Mistborn series and I was amazed at how the world changed from defeating/killing the Lord Ruler to recreating the world before the Lord Ruler into a world close to 19th century 1st world countries.  Yes, I know that the Known doesn't had that much metal, but that's not the point here.  

Since no one has killed either lord ruler equivalent, both of whom are highly invested in their respective status quos, the static (ish--it's not completely static; I mean, the areas outside Allanak and Tuluk have changed drastically since I've been here, and both cities' social systems have changed in big ways, but I think maybe you're taking large-scale technological change) nature of the setting makes story sense to me.

[lostinspace]

I think long term conflict is needed and that it needs to be driven by skilled, long-lived PCs. I've played over 100 characters in Arm, and a good number have been the 2-3 days played minor antagonists. I think those are great but I think the game tends to miss long lived antagonists. There have been a few notable ones in the past though and overall I think the game is in a pretty good state. Shit's goin' down.

I've seen people try and make recurring antagonists, all the ones I saw never really lasted long. The problem with a long term (player) antagonist is they have to walk the fine line of being bad enough to get a response, but not being bad enough to bring everyone down on them at once. For npc antagonists like kryl and gith this isn't a problem, because there can always just be more. More power to those who managed it, but I just can't put that much time into a character with the goal of making others want him dead.

[Miradus]

Largely, I think, because your main method of antagonizing people in plots is going to be to go sit in the Gaj and be an ass. At least that's the most "plot" I've seen thus far.

You can't go set up a villainous lair and have your minions go do things for you. You can't set up a secret base because it's too far from the blasted tavern which is the only place you'll find people willing to roleplay.

[Yam]

Largely, I think, because your main method of antagonizing people in plots is going to be to go sit in the Gaj and be an ass. At least that's the most "plot" I've seen thus far.

You can't go set up a villainous lair and have your minions go do things for you. You can't set up a secret base because it's too far from the blasted tavern which is the only place you'll find people willing to roleplay.

Totally untrue.

[nauta]

Largely, I think, because your main method of antagonizing people in plots is going to be to go sit in the Gaj and be an ass. At least that's the most "plot" I've seen thus far.

You can't go set up a villainous lair and have your minions go do things for you. You can't set up a secret base because it's too far from the blasted tavern which is the only place you'll find people willing to roleplay.

Eh.  This isn't really true.  Not only are there quit-save rooms out there, there's even a clan that could easily support a little raiding as a thing.

[The Warshaper]

Moar mantis,  Oh and Gith as players.

[Miradus]

You mean to say that this sort of thing actually happens? Without the collaboration of a handful of guys on AIM sharing info and planning together?

Not a sponsored role or a clanned thing, but some random guy who roles up a character and becomes part of the actual game lore as a villain? Not just some guy who goes on a stabbing spree in the Rinth for a week?

I'm encouraged and waiting to hear the tale. If you say "find out IC" I will be sorely disappointed, as I will if you relate to me something awesome that happened in 1998.

[Miradus]

To be frank, it may be my playstyle that leads me to not see these things happening. I spend a lot of time in the wilderness with the majority of my characters.

However, to relate the sad tale, when I first started I was very encouraged that I could do anything in the game world. But then as I grew a little bit and gained game knowledge, I started asking questions.

"I just branched wagonmaking skills! Can I build my own wagon and travel around?" No. Not unless you're in a clan and have your clan leader's permission. And even then they park their wagons except for special events.

"I have ridiculous amounts of coin. Can I start my own merchant house?" No.

"Can I lead trade caravans to and from the cities?" Yes, but the NPC merchants will only buy 5 items from you at a time. So your trade caravan isn't a string of inix, it's a backpack.

"But if I find a player merchant I could?" Sure. Found a player merchant of a house and they said no, they wouldn't buy from me because when they wanted something they just sent their wagon up to get it. Would I like to join their house as a crafter I would get free food and water in exchange for grinding out their stuff all day. Would I get my own private quarters with which to store these 10 packs full of sid I made as an indie merchant? No.

"Can I buy my own skimmer and become a skimmer captain?" Yes, but that part of the game is buggy as all get out and you'll die either when you stand up or when you run into a monster that you couldn't handle by yourself in ten thousand hours played.

So I began to think that maybe other people would make an impact, but not really me as an independent. However, to date, I haven't seen anything emerge. Nothing on the rumor boards except for rumors about famous people I never heard of who have mysteriously died, or the occasional spice-tasting party. I have begun to kind of have my doubts about the ability of a non-social, independent without staff support or ten friends on AIM to actually have any impact on the game world beyond a very well-geared corpse rotting in the wilderness.

[Malken]

You mean to say that this sort of thing actually happens? Without the collaboration of a handful of guys on AIM sharing info and planning together?

It's often a healthy mix of both.

Your other post is what I would call Armageddon's "white" lie. It kinda promises you that you can do all of these things but you really can't, unless all of the moons align perfectly and you are the Destined Child (you aren't)

[Miradus]

Well, as a goal I am trying to focus more on characters with some longevity (particularly now that I have so much of the game world mapped) and also with backgrounds which would interface a little more smoothly with other characters. So we'll see if it's really as static as I've come to believe. I have an open mind thus far.

[Norcal]

You mean to say that this sort of thing actually happens? Without the collaboration of a handful of guys on AIM sharing info and planning together?

Not a sponsored role or a clanned thing, but some random guy who roles up a character and becomes part of the actual game lore as a villain? Not just some guy who goes on a stabbing spree in the Rinth for a week?

I'm encouraged and waiting to hear the tale. If you say "find out IC" I will be sorely disappointed, as I will if you relate to me something awesome that happened in 1998.

Let see,  it was two years ago I reckon, that the whole thing ended.  A bad guy villan set up a whole camp with a number of other villans  (of course none of them saw themselves this way. I both played as a part of the villan group and then had another PC get ganked by said bad guy/group. It was a big group and went on for some time.

And there was another smaller group that went on for a very long time, about the same period.  None of them clanned. More recently I knew of an indy villan that roamed the Table lands, but I think her days ended with the <redacted>.

And within the last 18 months the whole <redacted> Trading Company..unclanned and had a large group active for a long time.

However if you want a drive through window indy, that is plug and play complete with the SUPER PLOTS expansion module and max killer mod from Nexus..you will be disappointed.  If you want to make a dent in the world, then it will take some time and planning on YOUR part.

And in clans it is not at all the roll call special app leaders that spin/run all the plots.  Not at all.

[Taven]

"I just branched wagonmaking skills! Can I build my own wagon and travel around?" No. Not unless you're in a clan and have your clan leader's permission. And even then they park their wagons except for special events.

It's not currently possible to make your own wagon and getting a wagon is HARD. I know staff had worked on changing this years ago, but the same suffered a massive crash/data loss that wiped everything out. I don't think it was picked up since then. So getting a wagon right now is, yes, pretty much impossible unless you're with a House, and even then, it would be difficult.

However, clans don't always just park their wagons to take out for special events. The Merchant Houses will travel with them to cross the desert and go from civilized area to civilized area. The Noble Houses and Militia don't take their wagons out as much because they tend to travel and need them less. So basically, everyone takes their wagons out as much as is ICly needed.

"I have ridiculous amounts of coin. Can I start my own merchant house?" No.

You CAN start your own merchant house, but it needs more then coin alone. It needs coin, dedication, and social influence, rather then coin alone.

I find this reasonable, because coin alone is stupidly easy to get in Armageddon if you know how. If coin alone was the only barrier for a lot of things, the same would get out of whack pretty quickly.

"Can I lead trade caravans to and from the cities?" Yes, but the NPC merchants will only buy 5 items from you at a time. So your trade caravan isn't a string of inix, it's a backpack.

"But if I find a player merchant I could?" Sure. Found a player merchant of a house and they said no, they wouldn't buy from me because when they wanted something they just sent their wagon up to get it. Would I like to join their house as a crafter I would get free food and water in exchange for grinding out their stuff all day. Would I get my own private quarters with which to store these 10 packs full of sid I made as an indie merchant? No.

Well, Merchant Houses DO ICly have their own people to get them things. I've also seen the Byn used a lot, for Noble Houses and the like. However, I've ALSO seen people who can be trusted but have no special affiliations used to get a variety of things (usually raw goods) or deliver things (usually scrolls). The trick is that you need to be deemed trustworthy and dependable.

It's very possible to run trips between civilized places and make a lot of coin trading crafted goods, as well, even with the five-item limit. I guess it just depends on what your goal is.

"Can I buy my own skimmer and become a skimmer captain?" Yes, but that part of the game is buggy as all get out and you'll die either when you stand up or when you run into a monster that you couldn't handle by yourself in ten thousand hours played.

Well, the Silt Sea is meant to be dangerous. It's still possible to run a silt skimmer crew, especially if you get the right people. There was a mul who ran a pretty widely-known crew, and he traded with Merchant Houses, people north and south (gaining the awareness of templars in both cities), and so on.

Dangerous, but very doable, because people have done it successfully.

So I began to think that maybe other people would make an impact, but not really me as an independent. However, to date, I haven't seen anything emerge. Nothing on the rumor boards except for rumors about famous people I never heard of who have mysteriously died, or the occasional spice-tasting party. I have begun to kind of have my doubts about the ability of a non-social, independent without staff support or ten friends on AIM to actually have any impact on the game world beyond a very well-geared corpse rotting in the wilderness.

A lot of things that happen won't be widely-accessible to lots of people. Why? People generally don't want everyone knowing their business. I can tell you that there is a lot of intense stuff that has happened or is happening with GMH, Allanaki Nobles, the Tablelands, and so on. It's just all relative to where you are and what you're doing.

It also depends on what players are trying to accomplish and are working towards. If nobody is trying for big things, you won't see player driven big things. If they are trying for big things, it will still take a very long time to see results. In my experience, these delays to accomplishing things are usually a result of players you're trying to work with not doing what they're supposed to, rather then staff.

Independent people have less impact on the game, unless they have social connections or develop resources. Clanned people have a much better standpoint, because their House has resources that can be commanded and utilized, both virtually and actually.

[Miradus]

Those are expected constraints I am willing to work within.

Looking at the other post, I keep thinking, "That's a LOT of stuff for one character to hear about."

[Erythil]

I'd like to see new locales and new factions to shake things up.

In particular, the Driath is in dire need of sprucing up, it's the centerpiece of the game and the most boring zone by far.  All kinds of cool things could be added to it.  Encampments, ruined fortresses, hostile tribes, subterranean glowing mushroom forests, etc. etc.

We need more things to do than the same old same old.

[Taven]

I'd like to see new locales and new factions to shake things up.

In particular, the Driath is in dire need of sprucing up, it's the centerpiece of the game and the most boring zone by far.  All kinds of cool things could be added to it.  Encampments, ruined fortresses, hostile tribes, subterranean glowing mushroom forests, etc. etc.

We need more things to do than the same old same old.

I think that having the virtual world be more active allows PCs to react and plot better to it. Some external change in the world can motivate a lot more PC interaction, be strife or cooperation. I don't things need to be constantly changing, but having a specific event or change happen that players can react to is good.

That said, I think this sometimes does happen and gets ignored by PCs.

[TheWanderer]

How is this possible? Elkrosians were removed.

[Suhuy]

I don't think it's about playing an antagonist or causing havoc or anything an individual character can accomplish.

There haven't been any world changing events in a while, likely due to the emphasis on guild/subguild updates and other coded goodies we've seen lately. Most world changing events require staff, plain and simple. There's not a whole lot an individual character can do on that level. An earthquake that devastates a region of the game, destroying a part of it and opening up new caverns and tunnels and ancient ruins probably requires a pretty sizable effort. Though I would love to see something like this take place

There are some lesser steps that could be taken to help fix some of the staticky elements of the game. For example the removal and replacement of many of Allanak's fossil NPCs. Removing as little as ten wandering NPCs and replacing them with new ones would change the overall backdrop immensely, I feel. Just walking around the city would make it feel refreshed and like the constantly changing beast a major civilization should be. It would have less of that 1994 feel, to me. Another senate meeting would surely generate some excitement as well, particularly if it included realistic proposals for minor changes in the city (this House wants to rename Caravan Road, that House wants to ban the possession of crossbows without a permit, etc).

It doesn't have to be a huge, major overhaul to bring that spark of change into the world, I don't think.