It's Tough Being Big

[IAmJacksOpinion]

While not a large portion of the population, relatively, half-giants are none-the-less a daily sight in the game world. However, the world has never really adapted to that fact. So, here are some ideas I'd like to throw out there. They're mostly to increase playability* of the role.

*By "playability" here, I mean pain points that can be OOCly annoying, but don't make any sense in the IC sense of the word. I am not calling HGs unplayable by any stretch of the imagination. They're OP as fuck. Honestly, I think they should be nerfed, but that's beside the point...

1. Inixes in Allanak. Roughly 95% of the NPC inixes in the game spawn in areas adjacent to Vrun Driath; a HELLUVA long ways away from Tuluk. Yet inix have always been a Tuluk-only mount as far as mount sellers go. I'm okay with having different mounts for different regions, but since there's only one type of mount a HG can actually ride, I feel like at least one breed of inix should be available in Allanak. Doesn't have to be a fancy one. There's absolutely no reason a HG should have to walk to the completely opposite side of the world for something as basic as a mount.

And, before someone says it, yes I agree that "NPC population does not equal vNPC population", but c'mon, if Inix are supposed to be Northern-only someone should spawn some more up there. Until then, there's absolutely no reason for them to be unavailable in other regions.

2. More HG weapons. Seeing as HGs are always scarfed up as a staple in military unit, you'd expect there to be more weapons designed for them. Currently there are 2 weapons spawned every reboot that are specifically built for HGs. And since they're usually bought up with the ninja quickness, most HGs starting out will run around with inappropriately sized weapons. I'm not knocking anyone for it. I do it too. I find the biggest regular-sized weapon I can find and roll with it. But lets face it, we all find it a little jarring don't we? Whenever I see a HG running around with something like a scimitar, I can't help but imagine it as one of those sword-shaped sandwich skewers.  I'm not asking for a huge variety here, but if Salarr stocked (as in buy all you want) one basic weapon of each damage type, I think we'd all be better off. One basic sword, axe, club, and spear. If you want something fancy, custom order.

OR, the other way to do this would be to revisit larger weapons and consider implementing them in a way that allowed HGs to one-hand weapons that would normally be two-handers. A human's greatsword becomes a HGs longsword. Or something similar.

3. Inventory. Can we just get a like a five slot min, regardless of Agi? Or just uncouple inventory slots from agility altogether! Give everyone X. No more, no less. Having this tied to agility really doesn't make a lot of sense. "I'm dextrous, so I can hold more boulders than you."


So, those are the 3 things that always get me about HGs. I know someone's going to bring up the Armor tax, so I'll give you my take on it right away. I'm fine with the armor tax. There are a lot of good, basic armors that are stocked at any armor store, and can be bought to fit you right away. If you have money to shell out for higher-tier armors (horror shell, etc.) you should have the extra ~300 to size them up. And honestly, it makes total sense when you think about it. A HG is roughly 10-12 times the size of a human (going by weight) so their armor is going to use WAY more material. If we really wanted it to be realistic, HG armor would probably cost at least 5x as much as human armor, just from material costs alone. Don't agree? Go to your local pizza joint and order an extra large at the small price. You'd be laughed at, for a reason.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

I would kind of like to see a half-giant table and chair set in the Gaj---- something they can actually sit and relax and regenerate movement at.

[Patuk]

I would kind of like to see a half-giant table and chair set in the Gaj---- something they can actually sit and relax and regenerate movement at.

Isn't there an echo about a HG sitting on the floor?

[Erythil]

A single half-giant sized armchair would be a fun flavor thing to have in the Gaj.

[Case]

It's because inix are dumb lumbering mounts that eat a lot of vegetation and the south has basically no vegetation

[yousuff]

I'm not sure if it's too IC to say, but I know Salarr's weaponsmith in allanak sells a voulge which is pretty damn big and always available. I know half elves are completely unable to wield it, so I think seeing a half giant with one would be more than fitting. As for the rest, I don't know. I think instead of making inixes available in Allanak, another mount that half giants are capable of riding down south should be made available. Seeing an inix (which is meant to be a monstrosity of a beast requiring huge amounts of pasture/food) in the deserts around Allanak should be the exception, not the norm.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

It's because inix are dumb lumbering mounts that eat a lot of vegetation and the south has basically no vegetation

Yeah, they're not FROM Vrun Driath. But like I said, 90% of the inix mobs in game spawn about a 10-15 minute (IRL) ride from Allanak so they're far from inaccessible to the South. Unless you're referring to upkeep costs which are pretty much token to begin with. 

I'm not sure if it's too IC to say, but I know Salarr's weaponsmith in allanak sells a voulge which is pretty damn big and always available.

Yeah, there are some scattered around that are fitting. But I think even that one doesn't always load or only loads one. Even your bigger swords (longsword, bastard swords) I think you could get away with using it like it was a shortsword for you. But with HGs being these huge power houses that everyone wants to get more of on their team, you'd think some properly sized weapons would be available.

I think instead of making inixes available in Allanak, another mount that half giants are capable of riding down south should be made available.

This is also good. Hamanu's mekillot riding, lance-wielding shock troops ftw!

[valeria]

MMH thought: a house that caters solely to half-giants.

I wouldn't mind seeing a little more hg gear in shops. But (and maybe I'm just a curmudgeon today) I think if you're playing a 3-karma race, some amount of playability consideration is gone. It's fine that you have to go out of your way to get a mount from another area of the game world, and specially order or get most gear sized up at a cost. It feels very IC to me.

[Jihelu]

Half giant specific house for creation 2k16.
One of ya'll fuckers best make this.
Ironically employ only dwarves.
My only fear is Salarr would shit on you for making weapons or something.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

I don't think we need to go that far. HGs need basically all the same stuff everybody needs, they just need it in an XXXXXXXXL size.

I'm also fine with stuff being more expensive for them as a trade off, but completely unavailable for no reason other than what appears to be oversight is what I'm campaigning against here.

[BadSkeelz]

Half-giants should be 4 karma.

[Jihelu]

Make weapon resizes a thing.
Turn your dagger into a hg dagger.
Ironically wielding it at this point is basically making it a longsword.

[manipura]

I have tried to make things specifically half-giant sized before.  I wanted to make a whole bunch of "half-giant this/that/the other thing" that were only to be used by half-giants.  For example, "a half-giant's obsidian longsword, a half-giant's wooden longbow, a half-giant's bone-tipped spear."  Things that were specifically made for someone that size.  I mostly was wanting it to be non-armor items, because armor at least can be re-sized...though it's being res-sized so much it's almost like a new item is being made.
The general consensus seemed to be "No you can't do this.  You can't make items race-specific so that other people can't use them.  And you can't call it a [race's] something, because that discourages other people from trying to use it, if they so desire, no matter how silly it is for them to try."

A single half-giant sized armchair would be a fun flavor thing to have in the Gaj.

A few characters ago I had a PC in the Byn who felt badly about her half-giant Bynner friend who couldn't sit at the Byn table with everyone.
There was usually not room at the bar for everyone to sit, so they always filled up the Byn table.  My PC would sit on the floor with her half-giant friend because there just aren't any other options and it made the half-giant sad to have to be the only Bynner on the floor.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

The general consensus seemed to be "No you can't do this.  You can't make items race-specific so that other people can't use them.  And you can't call it a [race's] something, because that discourages other people from trying to use it, if they so desire, no matter how silly it is for them to try."

That's discouraging. I know the AOD and Legions each have at least one greatsword / greataxe that allude in their mdescs to being made for HG sized characters. I can agree that weapons shouldn't be impossible for any race to use, but describing its massive size and making it weigh like 25-30 stones would achieve the same effect without making it strictly "race specific." Some people might be able to wield it, but the rigors of encumbrance management would discourage all but the most self-masturbatory of the "humongous" durfs from actually using it as a main weapon.

A single half-giant sized armchair would be a fun flavor thing to have in the Gaj.

This would be fun. I had a HG Legionaire / Bard one time who would sit crosslegged on the floor of the Sanctuary, and a few PCs would actually just crawl up on his lap and sit there while he sang. (Shuddup, I'm not a hypocrite, bards are okay as long as they're ironic! :p)

[valeria]

I don't think that means you can't make large items, more that you can't specify "half-giant sized whatever," which makes sense since things can be sized down.  It wouldn't have to be race-specific to come huge-sized as the default. I can think of several items that are effectively hg sized (even though they could be used by a humans/dwarves/muls with sufficient strength).

[manipura]

I wasn't going to do armor, because it can be sized down.  What I had in mind was weapons, bags, and tools that can't be resized.
Sure you can make a HG sized dagger that say, a strong dwarf can also wield...but looking at the size of a dwarf and a HG...I don't think I'd look at both side by side with the weapon and think it's a dagger in both cases.  What is a dagger to a half-giant is going to be beyond dagger-size to a smaller person.  You end up with a dwarf  using a 'dagger' that is larger than his longsword.  It's not just the weight, it's the sheer size of something. 

I just wanted to try and do something about the fact that I felt like half-giants get the short end of the stick a lot of the time, in regard to having to use items that are clearly not their size or resizable.

[valeria]

I feel like we're talking past each other. It seems like you're saying "I wanted to do this thing a specific way" and I'm saying "well maybe you can't do it that specific way but you could still do it" and you're saying "yeah but I wanted to do it a specific way." My point is that I'm pretty sure someone could find a way to do what would effectively be the thing (items made at a larger size), just not in the specific way you wanted to do it (having the designed items be race-specific).

I'm not sure that the word dagger would have to be a big deal. It could still be a very large dagger if a dwarf was holding it. Proportionately, the grip to blade ratio would still be of knife proportion. Or you could just avoid the word "dagger" and call it poinard. Or I would personally would also accept handwavium for what is basically a code issue.

Anyway half-giant focused MMH. Be the change 

[manipura]

I realize that big-sized things -can- be made, that's not the issue.  They can't be race-specific and the sdesc can't be specific to the race.  They can be made and the mdescs can strongly hint at them being designed for a half-giant, yes.
All I'm saying is that I don't like that due to those restrictions, I can't make a bunch of items only for half-giants.

I feel like the sheer size of items that a half-giant would use almost makes them something different entirely, from the regular sized versions.  It's why I used the example of a dagger.  Because it stops being a dagger when a regular person is wielding it.  Yes, the grip to blade ratio would still be of a dagger's proportion, which makes it even sillier in my mind that someone not of that proportion can use it.  If I have a dagger clearly made for a half-giant, the proportions are such that their enormous hand fits around the hilt just right...does it make sense that a dwarf could wield it, even if they can manage the weight of it just fine?

It's like making a satchel designed for The Mountain, and then having Tyrion drag it around on the ground because it's too big for him to use, but there's nothing to stop him from trying because he can manage the weight.

[Culinary Critic]

Armour repair!

My HG buys a shield for two small.  It doesn't fit, of course, so it has to be sized, for a little over two small.  Then it takes a beating in training/hunting/etc., so back to armour repair we go, where the poor, dim-witted oaf gets told 17 sid to fix it, here's your ticket, come back in 2 hours.
2 hours later....and it's the same price as it was to size it originally!

Add to that, if a fresh-from-HOK HG takes his/her boots off to try some other ones on, most of the time they get the echo that the boots they JUST TOOK OFF are too small for them.  I've played bootless HGs over and over when I forget this and spent the sid already getting my bracer repaired/resized.

[Jihelu]

This also happens with dwarves/odd sized people, for what is described above.
DOn't remove starting clothes kids.

[Norcal]

HG are supposedly rare in the general population of Arm. Having shops that stock a bunch of weapons that are only suitable for HG or super strong dwarves does not make sense.

What does make sense is having such items available by order from Salarr, or other Indy merchants who might want to master craft them. If the description does not state that it is for a particular race, but rather just very large, it should be doable. Yet not being staff, I can't say that with assurance.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

I would like it if Salaar stocked a single sword of average hg size and a single torso and leggings set, being as this is an issue people are going to disagree on. Give way halfway, and make everybody content, if not happy.

[Majikal]

Half-giants aren't super common, I think hg gear is a void that should/could/and even has on occasion been filled by crafters and indie merchants and Salarr if you have the coin for such a thing. The enormous cost of getting things sized for them is just one of many limitations on the race.

[Dan]

Does this still work if the vendor has "many" of an item to sell:

buy item race

Which gives you an item closer to what should fit that race? Or am I dreaming?

View #10

Too small for you to wear.

Buy #10 half-giant

Wear item

You put the item on.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

Get your armor from the starting vendors maybe. They always have your size. Buy spares.