And with it, David slew the giant.

[fourTwenty]

Dear Ginka,

A sling and a slingshot are still not the same thing. In fact, they are vastly different from each other. One is a dangerous weapon. One is a minor annoyance.

Love fourTwenty.

[Jihelu]

you can fuck something up with a slingshot fam.

[fourTwenty]

you can fuck something up with a slingshot fam.

Maybe so. My point being they are not the same thing. There are certain weapons in game described as a sling but called a sling shot. It irks me.

[RogueGunslinger]

They are both dangerous weapons, honestly. But there's nothing elastic enough to make a good one in Zalanthas.

[Jihelu]

They are both dangerous weapons, honestly. But there's nothing elastic enough to make a good one in Zalanthas.

I agree and disagree.
I feel like you could probably find some crazy ass material to make a sling shot out of.
Would it be a vine or something else?
Probably not.

[nauta]

Can confirm: as a newbie, I didn't read the main description, and was using them like slingshots in my emotes for about a year until I joined the Byn and the Sergeant was like: ooc wtf?

[fourTwenty]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziGD7vQOwl8

Skip to about 6:30 to hear all about the sling.

[Inks]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEH9HaVQLJ4

MR WIILLLSSONNN

Seriously rename them to slings. Pls.

[Desertman]

I have never believed slingshots had a place in Armageddon and I wish they would all be changed to "slings".

There is one slingshot item in game that is described as using oiled vines that have somehow become elastic or some silly shit.

This makes about as much sense as that goofy ass foot-long arrow that's in the game.

I understand it's a game and sometimes playability has to be put before realism, but I really don't think having goofy ass slingshots in the game world where they aren't even a technological possibility based on the materials at hand adds to playability.

Yes, I'm mad bro.

I have had to un-teach Dennis The Fucking Menace Slingshot usage to my underlings at least THIRTY TIMES!!!

I can't tell you all of the names and sdescs of my underlings who stepped up to use a "slingshot" which is actually described as a sling....and they pull this silly shit....

The brown-haired man puts a stone in his slingshot and pulls back on it, taking aim as he holds the handle in his other hand.

Oh no you didn't motherfucker.

NO YOU DID NOT.

I've actually had to OOC SEVERAL TIMES.....(and yes, I used these exact words every time, more or less)

"Hey bud, just a heads up, that's just a wonky sdesc. That's actually a sling. Think David and Goliath, not Dennis The Menace.".

It's an easy fix and they have always fixed it every time, but come on....make it go away.

MAKE THE BAD MAN STOP!!! - (And please Tek take that foot-long arrow out. Whoever wrote that has never shot a bow in their life, which is fine. No offense. I've never worn a pair a of high-heels myself and so you will never catch me writing some up and putting them in the game because I know I don't know shit about it.)

Every time I see that slingshot and that arrow, I feel like this girl:

[Jihelu]

I'm going to use only the slingshot now.
Only it.

[Desertman]

I'm going to use only the slingshot now.
Only it.

[Molten Heart]

I'm okay with whatever. Realism is important and so is playability. They could easily be renamed. The crafting recipes for some of slingshots might need to be tweek too, so maybe as easy as just changing some descriptions but I don't see any harm. I just don't want my obsidian swords shattering when I am super drunk and fall on the ground, or even getting into a fight with them.

[Hauwke]

Ive used a bow before and the arrow I used was indeed about 30cm long(Roughly 1 ft for you imperial nerds) . Give or take a bit and factor in the 'Holy shit I have a bow in my hands let shoot stuff' thing

[Desertman]

Ive used a bow before and the arrow I used was indeed about 30cm long(Roughly 1 ft for you imperial nerds) . Give or take a bit and factor in the 'Holy shit I have a bow in my hands let shoot stuff' thing

....This means your draw length would be a maximum of 6 - 8 inches. This is how far you would be able to draw your bow to get force behind your string to fire your arrow.

Even using modern day composite materials and alloys I can't see this actually firing an arrow in any way that would actually damage anything....or even fly very far...

If you can find a video of someone firing a 12in arrow to any sort of standard that isn't comical at best I will take it back and stand corrected. I will even dismiss the fact they wouldn't be using Zalanthan era technology.

[najdorf]

check the shot at 1:36

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78VT1Pp_9Nk

[Desertman]

My grandfather actually made one of those when I was a child haha.

He carved a slingshot handle out of a 2X4 and then used a bicycle tire inner tube as his "elastic band", and shot a similarly sized 2.5 - 3ft blunt wooden arrow (also homemade) out of it.

He would shoot it off of our front porch in the direction of dogs that would wander into the yard while yelling, "Get-on-outta-heayaaa.".

True story. (He never did hit one of the dogs, he wasn't really trying to I don't think. He was just scaring them.)

[Hauwke]

Ive used a bow before and the arrow I used was indeed about 30cm long(Roughly 1 ft for you imperial nerds) . Give or take a bit and factor in the 'Holy shit I have a bow in my hands let shoot stuff' thing

....This means your draw length would be a maximum of 6 - 8 inches. This is how far you would be able to draw your bow to get force behind your string to fire your arrow.

Even using modern day composite materials and alloys I can't see this actually firing an arrow in any way that would actually damage anything....or even fly very far...

If you can find a video of someone firing a 12in arrow to any sort of standard that isn't comical at best I will take it back and stand corrected. I will even dismiss the fact they wouldn't be using Zalanthan era technology.

Yeah dont get me wrong I am probably wrong, but the arrow from memory mind you was about a foot long. It was just at a fun park sort of thing and we were only shootin 10m or so at soft targets wasnt proper archery etc.

[fourTwenty]

"Get-on-outta-heayaaa."

Do we have the same grandfather?

[Kojul]

Just to chime in here, if you actually look at the slingshot, which apparently most of these people don't, it is blatantly obvious that it is a sling, not a slingshot.

I'm all for changing the sdescs to say sling, but even being new to the game, I knew off the bat that it was a sling and not a slingshot, so erm, yeah. I figured it was just what they called slings in the world.

[manipura]

Just to chime in here, if you actually look at the slingshot, which apparently most of these people don't, it is blatantly obvious that it is a sling, not a slingshot.

I'm all for changing the sdescs to say sling, but even being new to the game, I knew off the bat that it was a sling and not a slingshot, so erm, yeah. I figured it was just what they called slings in the world.

There are actually items in game, at least one, that is a 'slingshot'.  Not just because the sdesc says it is, but because it's a carved piece of wood that is a slingshot handle shaped like a Y with some sort of 'elastic vine' incorporated into it.

I think part of the issue people have is that not only are there slings that are inaccurately called slingshots...but there are actual slingshots.

[fourTwenty]

I think part of the issue people have is that not only are there slings that are inaccurately called slingshots...but there are actual slingshots.

If you want actual slingshot that's fine, whatever. But please for the love of god change the sdesc on the obvious slings.

[manipura]

I think part of the issue people have is that not only are there slings that are inaccurately called slingshots...but there are actual slingshots.

If you want actual slingshot that's fine, whatever. But please for the love of god change the sdesc on the obvious slings.

...
Yeah, I didn't actually say I wanted there to be slingshots?  I said that people had issues with 1) slings that are inaccurately called slingshots, and 2) actual slingshots, because they are stupid.

I was clarifying for the poster above that the issue actually isn't that people just aren't looking at the item...it's that there is one item with the wrong name, and one item that just doesn't make sense.

[fourTwenty]

I think part of the issue people have is that not only are there slings that are inaccurately called slingshots...but there are actual slingshots.

If you want actual slingshot that's fine, whatever. But please for the love of god change the sdesc on the obvious slings.

...
Yeah, I didn't actually say I wanted there to be slingshots?  I said that people had issues with 1) slings that are inaccurately called slingshots, and 2) actual slingshots, because they are stupid.

I was clarifying for the poster above that the issue actually isn't that people just aren't looking at the item...it's that there is one item with the wrong name, and one item that just doesn't make sense.

I didn't mean you as in you personally. I meant I have no problem if people want slingshots in the game. I'm very whatever on the situation. I am, however, extremely bothered by the slings in game that have a sdesc of slingshot.

I don't expect.it to be changed though. I brought this up once many many years ago. It doesn't seem important enough to spend any time fixing.

[hyzhenhok]

I don't think there's a problem with slingshots existing in the game. You can make a slingshot with stone-age materials. It's going to suck, just like slingshots in the game suck. No problem there.

The problem is the confusion between slingshots and slings, both in terms of mdesc/sdesc and in terms of power.

[manipura]

I don't think there's a problem with slingshots existing in the game. You can make a slingshot with stone-age materials. It's going to suck, just like slingshots in the game suck. No problem there.

The problem is the confusion between slingshots and slings, both in terms of mdesc/sdesc and in terms of power.

I'm curious what stone-age materials are going to be elastic enough to actually be a slingshot?

From Wikipedia:
Slingshots depend on strong elastic materials, typically vulcanized natural rubber or the equivalent, and thus date no earlier than the invention of vulcanized rubber by Charles Goodyear in 1839 (patented in 1844).

[RogueGunslinger]

I don't think there's a problem with slingshots existing in the game. You can make a slingshot with stone-age materials. It's going to suck, just like slingshots in the game suck.

The slingshots in game don't suck, imo. A slingshot made from stone-age materials? Nope, not buying it. There's no way it would work better than just throwing a rock. And I can't begin to imagine what you'd use for the elastic part. Such an invention would never even be considered when slings, bows, and crossbows exist.

I also hate how slings use the archery skill. It should be based on the throw skill, or a skill of its own.

[hyzhenhok]

I don't think there's a problem with slingshots existing in the game. You can make a slingshot with stone-age materials. It's going to suck, just like slingshots in the game suck.

The slingshots in game don't suck, imo. A slingshot made from stone-age materials? Nope, not buying it. There's no way it would work better than just throwing a rock. And I can't begin to imagine what you'd use for the elastic part. Such an invention would never even be considered when slings, bows, and crossbows exist.

I also hate how slings use the archery skill. It should be based on the throw skill, or a skill of its own.

There's a difference between "not better than throwing or using a bow/sling/crossbow" and "literally impossible."

[RogueGunslinger]

You haven't even provided an example of this hypothetical stone-age rock slinging device you're calling a slingshot. So I'm finding it hard to argue with your idea that something I can't imagine can sling a rock well enough to be defined as a slingshot. You seem to be describing some sort of device that has no useful function, which is why I brought up that bow/sling/crossbow comparison and why such a thing would never even be thought of.

[hyzhenhok]

You haven't even provided an example of this hypothetical stone-age rock slinging device you're calling a slingshot. So I'm finding it hard to argue with your idea that something I can't imagine can sling a rock well enough to be defined as a slingshot. You seem to be describing some sort of device that has no useful function, which is why I brought up that bow/sling/crossbow comparison and why such a thing would never even be thought of.

I don't see why we should assume ancient/Zalanthan people would share your failure of imagination.

There are plenty of items in the game, weapons and armor especially, that are realistically "devices that serve no useful function." A sword that is a solid bar of obsidian, for example. I don't see why we need a heightened standard of realism to apply to slingshots.

[manipura]

You haven't even provided an example of this hypothetical stone-age rock slinging device you're calling a slingshot. So I'm finding it hard to argue with your idea that something I can't imagine can sling a rock well enough to be defined as a slingshot. You seem to be describing some sort of device that has no useful function, which is why I brought up that bow/sling/crossbow comparison and why such a thing would never even be thought of.

I don't see why we should assume ancient/Zalanthan people would share your failure of imagination.

There are plenty of items in the game, weapons and armor especially, that are realistically "devices that serve no useful function." A sword that is a solid bar of obsidian, for example. I don't see why we need a heightened standard of realism to apply to slingshots.

I don't think it's a failure of imagination?  I think it's more that you specifically said a slingshot can be made with stone-age materials...and since slingshots rely on elastic materials...which aren't stone-age...RGS was wondering just how this hypothetical slingshot of yours was going to exist and function, evenly poorly.

[Armaddict]

You could invent a hand-catapult!  That doesn't require elastic material, just a flexible, large stick to get the same potential energy as an elastic substance!

But yeah.  Nothing elastic enough on Zalanthas that I've seen to make a slingshot.  You'd be able to pull sinew back maybe a couple inches, if you're lucky...and when you release the pocket, the rock will hurt your foot. (It won't be propelled anywhere.)

[hyzhenhok]

Sorry, I forgot I was posting on DoItYourselfStoneAgeWarrior.com where you need pictures of working prototypes and patent documentation. For some reason I thought this was a discussion board about a fantasy video game and surely I would not need to preface every single post with a caveat that I am in fact discussing the game, and not trying to make a general proposition about the real world.

If you guys are volunteering to scrub the game of every obsidian-bar sword and other unrealistic weapon, sure, let's get rid of the sinew and vine slingshots. But a vine or sinew that is elastic enough to work in a slingshot is not any different from a bar of obsidian strong and flexible enough to serve as the base material for a sword.

[Armaddict]

Sorry, I forgot I was posting on DoItYourselfStoneAgeWarrior.com where you need pictures of working prototypes and patent documentation. For some reason I thought this was a discussion board about a fantasy video game and surely I would not need to preface every single post with a caveat that I am in fact discussing the game, and not trying to make a general proposition about the real world.

If you guys are volunteering to scrub the game of every obsidian-bar sword and other unrealistic weapon, sure, let's get rid of the sinew and vine slingshots. But a vine or sinew that is elastic enough to work in a slingshot is not any different from a bar of obsidian strong and flexible enough to serve as the base material for a sword.

I think you're taking it a little personally that people are saying slings are much more viable than slingshots and that we should change the sdescs to accurately portray the difference between the two.

Does the removal of the one or two actual slingshots actually upset you so much that you're saying if we did it, we would have to remove all the obsidian swords, too?

[hyzhenhok]

Sorry, I forgot I was posting on DoItYourselfStoneAgeWarrior.com where you need pictures of working prototypes and patent documentation. For some reason I thought this was a discussion board about a fantasy video game and surely I would not need to preface every single post with a caveat that I am in fact discussing the game, and not trying to make a general proposition about the real world.

If you guys are volunteering to scrub the game of every obsidian-bar sword and other unrealistic weapon, sure, let's get rid of the sinew and vine slingshots. But a vine or sinew that is elastic enough to work in a slingshot is not any different from a bar of obsidian strong and flexible enough to serve as the base material for a sword.

I think you're taking it a little personally that people are saying slings are much more viable than slingshots and that we should change the sdescs to accurately portray the difference between the two.

Does the removal of the one or two actual slingshots actually upset you so much that you're saying if we did it, we would have to remove all the obsidian swords, too?

Yes, I take it personally when someone ignores my actual argument and the context to play "I'm Right On the Internet." If you had actually read what I had written, you'd see that

I think you're taking it a little personally that people are saying slings are much more viable than slingshots and that we should change the sdescs to accurately portray the difference between the two.

is something I said I agreed with.

[RogueGunslinger]

I'm not trying to win anything or "be right on the internet." I'm just saying slingshots should not be in the game and I've clearly explained why. I don't think pistols should be in the game and we invented those hundred of years before slingshots. Your only explanation for why it should exist is "other things that make no sense exist".

[hyzhenhok]

I'm not trying to win anything or "be right on the internet." I'm just saying slingshots should not be in the game and I've clearly explained why. I don't think pistols should be in the game and we invented those hundred of years before slingshots. Your only explanation for why it should exist is "other things that make no sense exist".

I don't believe I ever said slingshots should exist in the game. Just that their presence is not very offensive.

At any rate, inconsistencies with Real Earth Stone Age Science is an extremely weak reason why something should be excluded from a fantasy video game set in another universe.

[RogueGunslinger]

A weak reason? That's just your opinion. It's a weak reason if you dismiss the motivation behind not liking something due to "realism". Which isn't just "It's not real so it shouldn't exist." but also "I have no idea how to imagine it in my head thus it breaks the shit out of my immersion." A game needs to have internal consistencies otherwise it doesn't feel i like it is believable. As is, any mundane means of making a slingshot just doesn't jive with me with Zalanthas' technology. It doesn't even seem to be particularly jiving with you either...

If you want sling-shots that use magickal thread or some sort of Zalanthas only spider-web then fine, I guess. But I don't think that's very consistent with the world of Zalanthas as it is. I would rather they were just removed entirely instead of patched up with mystical hand-waving.

I don't believe I ever said slingshots should exist in the game. Just that their presence is not very offensive.

I don't find them offensive. I find them illogical and hard to imagine. Also, you may have never said "slingshots should exist" verbatim but you were certainly implying it when you said things like this:

I don't think there's a problem with slingshots existing in the game.

The entire premise of your disagreement was based on "slingshots can be made with stone-age tools." Before it was pointed out as BS and you decided to morph your argument into "Other unrealistic things exists." and finally "slingshots aren't offensive." ...Alrightythen.jpg

[hyzhenhok]

I don't see any point arguing about how easy it is to suspend disbelief about something. You win.

[evilcabbage]

nigh-unbreakable obsidian swords exist in game.

swords are made out of bone and nothing but bone.

a fantastical elastic vine with the ability to launch rocks?

absolutely





you are taking this far too seriously. the slingshot exists. the items called slingshots that are slings should be renamed. bug them, then. or typo them. probably typo. typo is better.

[RogueGunslinger]

Your only explanation for why it should exist is "other things that make no sense exist".

[evilcabbage]

and? big deal.

lots of things exist in this game that don't make any sense at all.

cloaks made entirely of wool in a land that is almost perpetually warm to hot?

-coats- made of wool in a land that is almost perpetually warm to hot?

again, swords made entirely of obsidian that don't break, somehow set into handles made of bone that also don't break.

armor held together with threads of -giants hair-?

the idea that there might be a fairly elastic vine that you can use to make a slingshot isn't all that big a deal to me.


if you want to make the game more realistic, you might want to start looking at the entirety of it instead of picking apart one piece.

[Desertman]

and? big deal.

lots of things exist in this game that don't make any sense at all.

cloaks made entirely of wool in a land that is almost perpetually warm to hot?

-coats- made of wool in a land that is almost perpetually warm to hot?

again, swords made entirely of obsidian that don't break, somehow set into handles made of bone that also don't break.

armor held together with threads of -giants hair-?

the idea that there might be a fairly elastic vine that you can use to make a slingshot isn't all that big a deal to me.


if you want to make the game more realistic, you might want to start looking at the entirety of it instead of picking apart one piece.

I'm fine with this if staff wants to put in a vine that is commonly known to be so incredibly elastic it would actually work for a slingshot.

As it stands the slingshots I know of in the game don't use said vine. They use a normal common vine not known to be any more elastic than any other vine.

I think it would be sort of neat if a very elastic animal sinew from "insert animal" was discovered and people could incorporate that into crafts.

I don't think anyone is against, "Slingshots existing.", I just think they don't like the idea of the following:

A) Items described in the game as slings having the sdesc of "slingshot".....which for some reason they do.
B) The slingshots in game having magical elastic properties assigned to materials that in no other instance have said properties.


The slingshots in the game having their common non-elastic materials assigned elastic properties just for that item for no reason is the issue. It makes about as much sense as that super hard obsidian being assigned the fabulous ability to float for an airship item because someone decided they wanted to make an obsidian airship.

[RogueGunslinger]

and? big deal.

And it's a horrible argument. I'm fine where mystical things fill in gaps that would otherwise make no sense or throw someone off: Giant hair being a very strong, or obsidian being strong so every sword doesn't shatter instantly is there for playability reasons. Everything else I would want removed just like I want slingshots gone.

I am against slingshots existing because the "magickal vine" sounds like eye-rolling horseshit I'd find in a typical fantasy setting, like some Elvish gift from Elrond. Fluff there to serve no purpose than to hand-wave someones 15 year old code addition that was inspired by Dennis the Menace.

And it isn't a big deal. I couldn't give a shit if it's actually removed, I'm perfectly fine ignoring them and suspending disbelief. But this is a discussion thread about slingshots, so, you know. Giving my opinion on slingshots. Trying to diminish my opinion as overblown just because you disagree doesn't give your horrible argument any more weight.

[Armaddict]

I think the prospect of fixing a few slingshot objects is also drastically different than revamping a major component for arms and armor as a whole, too. The comparison between the two is like cleaning a children's sandbox versus cleaning an entire coastline.

In the end, this is a very small number of objects. We are very talented at turning not big things into big things on this board. Does someone actually care if we changed slingshot to slings and no longer had slingshot, or are we just arguing for the he'll of it?

[Molten Heart]

On second thought slingshots are pretty bitchin'. Why would anyone not want one?

[Inks]

I think the prospect of fixing a few slingshot objects is also drastically different than revamping a major component for arms and armor as a whole, too. The comparison between the two is like cleaning a children's sandbox versus cleaning an entire coastline.

In the end, this is a very small number of objects. We are very talented at turning not big things into big things on this board. Does someone actually care if we changed slingshot to slings and no longer had slingshot, or are we just arguing for the he'll of it?

Yeah. Pretty much this. Would take a few minutes to fix once approved by Imms. Also I miss Jave. WHERE IS HE?

[Vositus]

Relevant video if you have 10 minutes to spare. The speed it snaps outta there is pretty damn impressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzDMCVdPwnE

[Miradus]

Cool biblical info:

We are told David took five stones to go out and face Goliath. Why? Did he think he might miss?

No. Goliath the giant of Gath was known to have four sons who were present on the field of battle and were expected to come to the defense of their father.

David went out not expecting to have to fight ONE giant, but FIVE.

[Desertman]

Cool biblical info:

We are told David took five stones to go out and face Goliath. Why? Did he think he might miss?

No. Goliath the giant of Gath was known to have four sons who were present on the field of battle and were expected to come to the defense of their father.

David went out not expecting to have to fight ONE giant, but FIVE.

I like the jawbone of the ass one better. I have played Sampson in-game, minus the super human Hercules strength bit, and used a cilops jaw as my weapon....I didn't accomplish much but I did like emoting slaying things with a jawbone. Hehehe.

[Miradus]

The jawbone of an ass in the Samson discussions is pretty peculiar. Samson was more or less a Jewish superhero and I'm not sure how much of his exploits we are supposed to believe. (I am not one of the Christians who believe in the complete inerrancy of the Bible). I think it's supposed to be a statement indicating how potent Samson was when the power of God came upon him that he could slay thousands of men with such an unlikely instrument.

As to the whole "jawbone of a cilops" ... isn't a cilops just a big insect? Insects do not have bones. It should be "mandible" or something, shouldn't it?

I think we should just acknowledge the setting in Arm is just a hodge-podge of crap that various people over the decades have found cool and not take it really that seriously or consider it too realistic. Better that than trying to understand how the desert elves developed a Nepalese kukri, a distinct tool for chopping through brush and dense forest.

[Desertman]

The jawbone of an ass in the Samson discussions is pretty peculiar. Samson was more or less a Jewish superhero and I'm not sure how much of his exploits we are supposed to believe. (I am not one of the Christians who believe in the complete inerrancy of the Bible). I think it's supposed to be a statement indicating how potent Samson was when the power of God came upon him that he could slay thousands of men with such an unlikely instrument.

As to the whole "jawbone of a cilops" ... isn't a cilops just a big insect? Insects do not have bones. It should be "mandible" or something, shouldn't it?

I think we should just acknowledge the setting in Arm is just a hodge-podge of crap that various people over the decades have found cool and not take it really that seriously or consider it too realistic. Better that than trying to understand how the desert elves developed a Nepalese kukri, a distinct tool for chopping through brush and dense forest.

I don't know about all that other stuff my man, I just know I liked killing things with a jaw. (It's "a cilop's jaw", or something like that...I think it is chitin actually.) 

[Miradus]

I too have enjoyed killing gortoks with as primitive of weapons as I can get. I have tried several times to have a nomadic Aborigine type of character and just go as simple as I absolutely can get. I am not sure it's completely possible in this codebase unless you avoid anything bigger than a tregil, but I have high hopes.

[RogueGunslinger]

It's very possible. Killing people with spoons is an honored passtime.


I've always wanted to make a Kenshin character that only uses a blunted blade to fight and never kills though.

[Jihelu]

It's very possible. Killing people with spoons is an honored passtime.


I've always wanted to make a Kenshin character that only uses a blunted blade to fight and never kills though.

Something something Samurai X

[AdamBlue]

To be quite honest, if you just have 'mercy on', you could probably convincibly do slashing damage but RP it as using the dull edge of your sword.