Should clan gates open for clan gear, instead of clan status?

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

I believe clan gates should open for clan gear, and not clannies above the rank of servant/slave, because that one guy is not going to remember 500+ hunters and crafters, a couple of whom -should- be fakes holding vellum tickets saying they're waiting for their armbands to be sized.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

I work in a building with 500 people and the guards only took about a week to start greeting me by name every morning. Which isn't a statement against the idea in general (INSERT GIANT DISCLAIMER HERE) but more a comment that I don't think it's unrealistic for the guards to remember every employee's face and name. That's what they're paid for.

Oh, well, I retract my previous statement then.

This is a nice opportunity for inspiration to strike someone and cause them to stand at the gates, being delayed for a couple of hours because they aren't being recognized.

[BadSkeelz]

It's also possible that the gate NPCs are (virtually) checking with their (virtual) superiors to make sure the tall muscular man is actually on the payroll, and doing so in virtual time.

[Asmoth]

I think the main point is that CLAN COMPOUND A,B,C,D,E,F,G ETC, shouldn't be impervious fortresses.

I mean, the city itself has entrances that aren't the gates.  And that's the city, not a bunch of rooms with skins and rocks in them.

[BadSkeelz]

I'd like there to be more climbable walls, sewer tunnels, and other avenues in to compounds instead of (or in addition to) 'gank the newb and steal his cloak and hope no one recognizes me as a stranger.'

[Asmoth]

I'd like there to be more climbable walls, sewer tunnels, and other avenues in to compounds instead of (or in addition to) 'gank the newb and steal his cloak.'

That's a compromise, I could get behind.

[Lizzie]

I think the main point is that CLAN COMPOUND A,B,C,D,E,F,G ETC, shouldn't be impervious fortresses.

I mean, the city itself has entrances that aren't the gates.  And that's the city, not a bunch of rooms with skins and rocks in them.

1) They're not impervious. You can pretend to want a job there, get hired, and then rob them blind (good luck getting away with it, what with all those VNPC family members and VNPC guards and VNPC assistant crafters/merchants/hunters wandering around at all hours of day and night). You can also roleplay your way into the Merchant's good graces and high level of trust, such that he invites you in for a meeting/custom fitting/trade of metal for whatever. Then, you scope the joint, take stock of where the thing you want is located, and leave with his escort. At a later point in time, you have your "faithful big burly assistant" go with you to drop off a keg of something as a gift - and while the two of you are talking, Mr. Assistant runs for the thing you want, while pretending that he only was going to take a piss in the stable. He returns with the thing you want in his pockets, and you both get to leave unscathed. There's a few other possibilities, but I'll trust you can use your imagination to come up with them yourself.

2. The city is BIG. It's so big, that it's not likely you'll have a soldier available to watch every square inch of the wall surrounding it. So it's inevitable that people will ultimately be able to circumvent the gates, in some manner or another. A clan compound is very small, comparatively, and thus doesn't -need- that vast quantity of guards to watch over every inch of its walls. Because clan yards are also very small, and are filled -only- with clan members and no visitors, it stands to reason that anyone who doesn't belong there will stand out and be noticed by SOMEONE inside those gates.

[Asmoth]

I think the main point is that CLAN COMPOUND A,B,C,D,E,F,G ETC, shouldn't be impervious fortresses.

I mean, the city itself has entrances that aren't the gates.  And that's the city, not a bunch of rooms with skins and rocks in them.

1) They're not impervious. You can pretend to want a job there, get hired, and then rob them blind (good luck getting away with it, what with all those VNPC family members and VNPC guards and VNPC assistant crafters/merchants/hunters wandering around at all hours of day and night). You can also roleplay your way into the Merchant's good graces and high level of trust, such that he invites you in for a meeting/custom fitting/trade of metal for whatever. Then, you scope the joint, take stock of where the thing you want is located, and leave with his escort. At a later point in time, you have your "faithful big burly assistant" go with you to drop off a keg of something as a gift - and while the two of you are talking, Mr. Assistant runs for the thing you want, while pretending that he only was going to take a piss in the stable. He returns with the thing you want in his pockets, and you both get to leave unscathed. There's a few other possibilities, but I'll trust you can use your imagination to come up with them yourself.

2. The city is BIG. It's so big, that it's not likely you'll have a soldier available to watch every square inch of the wall surrounding it. So it's inevitable that people will ultimately be able to circumvent the gates, in some manner or another. A clan compound is very small, comparatively, and thus doesn't -need- that vast quantity of guards to watch over every inch of its walls. Because clan yards are also very small, and are filled -only- with clan members and no visitors, it stands to reason that anyone who doesn't belong there will stand out and be noticed by SOMEONE inside those gates.

I understand I could play the long con, and do all that shit you mentioned, but I'm talking about playing the short con, the snatch and grab.  I personally wouldn't expect to have a very long lifespan if I got caught stealing from Salarr or X other house.

But god damnit, I should have  a way to do it that doesn't involve staff making shit happen.  Because they don't like when you ask them to do stuff anyways (Another snark, can't help myself.)

[Armaddict]

1) They're not impervious. You can pretend to want a job there, get hired, and then rob them blind (good luck getting away with it, what with all those VNPC family members and VNPC guards and VNPC assistant crafters/merchants/hunters wandering around at all hours of day and night). You can also roleplay your way into the Merchant's good graces and high level of trust, such that he invites you in for a meeting/custom fitting/trade of metal for whatever. Then, you scope the joint, take stock of where the thing you want is located, and leave with his escort. At a later point in time, you have your "faithful big burly assistant" go with you to drop off a keg of something as a gift - and while the two of you are talking, Mr. Assistant runs for the thing you want, while pretending that he only was going to take a piss in the stable. He returns with the thing you want in his pockets, and you both get to leave unscathed. There's a few other possibilities, but I'll trust you can use your imagination to come up with them yourself.

These aren't swiss banks, they're open compounds with multiple buildings inside and traffic in and out of them.  Should it be easy?  No.  Should it be possible in a way that does not encourage a stealthy to use shadow as the best coded way to show your virtual actions in climbing over walls and such?  Yes.

If you want to draw such hard lines on 'No, it should not gain any sway in you being able to circumvent what has become flawless security', then I will literally just have to continue giving no creedence to complaints that stealth is being abused.

At least back in the day, it wasn't auto-gateguards, it was actual keys that could be stolen.

[Riev]

1) They're not impervious. You can pretend to want a job there, get hired, and then rob them blind (good luck getting away with it, what with all those VNPC family members and VNPC guards and VNPC assistant crafters/merchants/hunters wandering around at all hours of day and night). You can also roleplay your way into the Merchant's good graces and high level of trust, such that he invites you in for a meeting/custom fitting/trade of metal for whatever. Then, you scope the joint, take stock of where the thing you want is located, and leave with his escort. At a later point in time, you have your "faithful big burly assistant" go with you to drop off a keg of something as a gift - and while the two of you are talking, Mr. Assistant runs for the thing you want, while pretending that he only was going to take a piss in the stable. He returns with the thing you want in his pockets, and you both get to leave unscathed. There's a few other possibilities, but I'll trust you can use your imagination to come up with them yourself.

These aren't swiss banks, they're open compounds with multiple buildings inside and traffic in and out of them.  Should it be easy?  No.  Should it be possible in a way that does not encourage a stealthy to use shadow as the best coded way to show your virtual actions in climbing over walls and such?  Yes.

If you want to draw such hard lines on 'No, it should not gain any sway in you being able to circumvent what has become flawless security', then I will literally just have to continue giving no creedence to complaints that stealth is being abused.

At least back in the day, it wasn't auto-gateguards, it was actual keys that could be stolen.

In my opinion, I think the central point is that "you can sneak in" but really only with staff attention and assistance. Which, in my opinion, is less "assistance and facilitation" and more "What is the maximum way the virtual world that is almost NEVER represented can screw over this idea?"

Not negative, per se, but it just adds to the "You can't sneak into a place with hundreds of people moving through a day, whose recruits have a shit-ton of turnover unless staff are there to roleplay the secret virtual psioncist who is an aide to the rarely-animated Lieutenant who knows you aren't who you pretend to be.