Odd quirks of code. (Offshoot of Random Arm Thought)

[Asmoth]

There are some wonky things that don't make much sense beyond (That's how it's always been) reasoning.

Stamina regen: It regens when I sit, when I rest, but I could stand in a cool, shaded room for five ic days and still be exhausted.

Foraging takes stamina to simulate the effort in turning over rocks, and digging into salt etc. YET, fighting a scrab for ten minutes, takes absolutely no stamina.  You know, dodging and ducking from a huge bug intent to eat you, but turning over that rock, WOO it's exhausting. (Just using sarcasm to show the hilarity in it, don't get all butthurt.)

There is a no-save arrest, but there isn't a no-save fighting.  Certain aspects of code seem to kick in once you swing back.  So say I have two critters in the room and one attacks me, if I instantly type disengage, the other just goes about his business, but the minute I attack back, they jump your shit.  (Critters aside, think of how this functions with say, crime code)  It would stop people from instantly getting murdered by guards when maybe the militia pc or templar wanted to just beat the shit outta them.

Barrier can be crushed by literally anyone, I've had multiple characters with very high barrier that seemed to block nobody out (Now I understand there are other uses and this particular gripe is simply on the fact of keeping people outta my head, not those uses.)

Weather systems are laid out in an apparent grid.  Sure it's shitty here, but walk five rooms east and it's a calm day at the sauna.

While I understand it's probably coded this way, it would be cool if they weren't so, BOOM in your face that you walked into a different weather system.  Maybe have them gradually peter from full blown, you can't see your feet, sandstorm, to harsh winds, then a bit farther out calm.  Not Armageddon of weather to calm day.

Crafts: (This may be fixable some way with communication with staff, just not sure how you would go about it, question?)

You can make an item from a very readily available material and sell it for half a small, yet you find super rare, hard to find for anyone not a ranger material and make it into similar object and it's half the price.

Value Skill: As a skill, it's cool to know what it SHOULD be worth, but this skill has absolutely nothing to give you in relation to what the npc's will pay.  Perhaps if it was more in tune with where in the game world you are, and what X npc's who buy said shit are paying, it would be more useful.

Foraging: It should be less general, perhaps split off some of the forage categories to make them more useful without having to grind through five pounds of shit you have no desire to find.  Example: Forage stones find anything from sling ammo, all the way to the greatest gems in the known.  Maybe split that up.

That's all I can think of for now.

[evilcabbage]

nosave combat

[Asmoth]

nosave combat

Holy shit...how did I not know this existed for SO fucking long...

[Majikal]

Value Skill: As a skill, it's cool to know what it SHOULD be worth, but this skill has absolutely nothing to give you in relation to what the npc's will pay.  Perhaps if it was more in tune with where in the game world you are, and what X npc's who buy said shit are paying, it would be more useful.

This interests me, from playing for a long time an experience when I see a new item and value it (on a pc that has the skill anyway) it gives me the player a descent idea of how high end the product is. However, it's really not a good indicator for what the item is worth when it comes to trading. Would definitely be neat if you could tie the skill into some value for the zone. We know every merchant in nak pays more for wood because of some variations of a flag on the merchants. I imagine it would be possible to tie the skill into some broad use of that flag by zone. Would be awesome.

[hyzhenhok]

Foraging: It should be less general, perhaps split off some of the forage categories to make them more useful without having to grind through five pounds of shit you have no desire to find.  Example: Forage stones find anything from sling ammo, all the way to the greatest gems in the known.  Maybe split that up.

I agree with this one the most. Some rooms have such huge libraries of what you can find, it's ridiculous.

"forage ammo" -> separate arrowhead shards & sling ammunition from stone.
"forage gemstones" -> separate gems from stones.
"forage brush/kindling" -> separate grasses, twigs, reeds and vines from wood.

[whitt]

Barrier can be crushed by literally anyone, I've had multiple characters with very high barrier that seemed to block nobody out (Now I understand there are other uses and this particular gripe is simply on the fact of keeping people outta my head, not those uses.)

Curious how you know how many people have tried to contact you and been blocked.  Not saying barrier rocks and I get that the ones that get through are pretty obvious, but do you ask everyone that breaks your barrier "how many times did you have to try and contact me before you got through?"  You certainly can't ask the ones who didn't get through, because... well you'd never even know they came knocking unless they mentioned it.

[Asmoth]

Barrier can be crushed by literally anyone, I've had multiple characters with very high barrier that seemed to block nobody out (Now I understand there are other uses and this particular gripe is simply on the fact of keeping people outta my head, not those uses.)

Curious how you know how many people have tried to contact you and been blocked.  Not saying barrier rocks and I get that the ones that get through are pretty obvious, but do you ask everyone that breaks your barrier "how many times did you have to try and contact me before you got through?"  You certainly can't ask the ones who didn't get through, because... well you'd never even know they came knocking unless they mentioned it.

I have asked people before at advanced/master and at most it took two tries.

Plus you get the suffer message when they attempt and you succeed.

[Chettaman]

''weather <direction>''
well... ya know... I guess it wouldn't hurt to put like a room object in a room before you enter a storm like,
"A wall of clouded sand and dust whirls about fiercly to the north"

[manonfire]

Not really a code quirk, but the air rooms are completely broken in some places.

Barrier can be crushed by literally anyone, I've had multiple characters with very high barrier that seemed to block nobody out (Now I understand there are other uses and this particular gripe is simply on the fact of keeping people outta my head, not those uses.)

From what I understand, your barrier skills vs. their contact skill isn't the only factor in preventing a crushed barrier.

[Synthesis]

Value Skill: As a skill, it's cool to know what it SHOULD be worth, but this skill has absolutely nothing to give you in relation to what the npc's will pay.  Perhaps if it was more in tune with where in the game world you are, and what X npc's who buy said shit are paying, it would be more useful.

This interests me, from playing for a long time an experience when I see a new item and value it (on a pc that has the skill anyway) it gives me the player a descent idea of how high end the product is. However, it's really not a good indicator for what the item is worth when it comes to trading. Would definitely be neat if you could tie the skill into some value for the zone. We know every merchant in nak pays more for wood because of some variations of a flag on the merchants. I imagine it would be possible to tie the skill into some broad use of that flag by zone. Would be awesome.

It's an excellent indicator of what an item is worth when it comes to trading, if you pay attention and find out what the material-type value modifiers are for every shopkeeper in the Known World.  In fact, without the value skill, you would never be able to ascertain what those modifiers are.

In fact, it's all you need.  It's exactly what you're asking for, you just have to "find out IC" for the extra little bit of information you need, which is perfectly fine.

[Miradus]

''weather <direction>''
well... ya know... I guess it wouldn't hurt to put like a room object in a room before you enter a storm like,
"A wall of clouded sand and dust whirls about fiercly to the north"

One of the best weather systems I've seen implemented would give you a map of the region with characters representing the storm movement. So you could see if the area you were headed into was snowing, raining, etc. Essentially you could see the weather you were in and about 2 zones around you in all directions.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

You can taste an item in the room, but you can't eat an item in the room.

[Miradus]

And with the presence of invisible dung ...

[Asmoth]

You cannot assess something you wield or hold.  But you can assess something that's in your general inventory, so in essence you can inspect something in your cargo pocket, but not in your hand.

[nauta]

Opening a bag while resting.  You can't!  But you can make a chair and a dresser set while resting.

[Inks]

You can't shoot someone down a hole or on the ground when you are on a rooftop, but someone down a hole or on the ground can shoot you. So much for taking the high ground.

[Asmoth]

May just be my mushclient, but when I connect I have to hit enter once and it tells me inproper choice, then I have to type c login password.

If I skip the first enter, it will show as I picked something inappropriate regardless what I type.

[fourTwenty]

May just be my mushclient, but when I connect I have to hit enter once and it tells me inproper choice, then I have to type c login password.

If I skip the first enter, it will show as I picked something inappropriate regardless what I type.

Ditto.

[Miradus]

You can't shoot someone down a hole or on the ground when you are on a rooftop, but someone down a hole or on the ground can shoot you. So much for taking the high ground.

I think I figured this one out.

Most of the "up" rooms that are a straight line down are climb-checked so you have to hold on. "Over the edge" or "over the edge of a cliff" or something like that. If you let go to shoot then you would become a 7-9 stone projectile yourself.

[Asmoth]

The Cleaning Salt Mutant.

He can hand you a soapstone token in the exact same motion you hand him the salt.  But he has to individually hand you coins in increments.

I think this has to do with something Nesallin was talking about with old coded systems versus new coded systems.  Makes no fucking sense, and takes WAY too long when you're trying to go in and sell really quick and get out before a necker steals your mount.

[Asmoth]

Stolen from RAT.

Wearing gloves makes you easier to disarm by mechanics of the game.  Which as one of the guys on this forums who goes by lettuce or something said makes more sense.  A glove would help you grip the weapon more and hold it better, not worse.

[evilcabbage]

call me lettuce again and i will eat your brain.

[Jave]

Stolen from RAT.

Wearing gloves makes you easier to disarm by mechanics of the game.  Which as one of the guys on this forums who goes by lettuce or something said makes more sense.  A glove would help you grip the weapon more and hold it better, not worse.

Cross posting from RAT ... because there is another school of thought on this topic that is pretty well fleshed out per the words of ye old weapon and armor enthusiasts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpurFCdTaqY

[RogueGunslinger]

Great vid Jave, thanks.

[Asmoth]

We Aren't talking about metal gauntlets.

[RogueGunslinger]

lol

Did you watch the video? Gauntlets are just leather gloves on palm-side.

Also some gloves could be coated in tar with jagged little spikes on the inside for gripping if we're getting into specifics of glove type.

In general though. Gloves are clunky and make things unwieldy.

[Asmoth]

lol

Did you watch the video? Gauntlets are just leather gloves on palm-side.

No, watching some guy with a hippy beard and too much time on his hands playing with old weapons isn't my idea of a fun time.

[Synthesis]

lol

Did you watch the video? Gauntlets are just leather gloves on palm-side.

No, watching some guy with a hippy beard and too much time on his hands playing with old weapons isn't my idea of a fun time.

ಠ_ಠ

[Jave]

lol

Did you watch the video? Gauntlets are just leather gloves on palm-side.

No, watching some guy with a hippy beard and too much time on his hands playing with old weapons isn't my idea of a fun time.

If you want to reply to the content of the video ... you should probably watch the video. Mostly out of good form in general, but since he addresses your point of contention directly, you ought watch it for that reason as well.

[evilcabbage]

he is specifically referring to gauntlets in that video.

the material for the gloves is considerably thicker - he explicitly stated "thick" gloves, with armor and wrist covering that restricts movement of the wrist.

that is where the issues with handling comes into play.

that is what would restrict defensive capabilities.


does he say anything in there about it being easier to disarm that weapon, or that it makes it harder to grip the weapon?

i went through most of the video and i am fairly sure he does not say that.

in fact, he says nothing at all about your grip on the weapon being affected, other than that it is more difficult to maneuver the weapon in certain guards because of an extreeeeemely cumbersome early gauntlet.

[Jave]

Cross posting:

At the 1:52 minute mark he actually does say: "If you have a particularly bulky glove, you know that it's getting a bit difficult to manipulate things."

It also seems like from googling different "extra grip gloves" on the market that the extra grip they advertise is framed as an added feature to offset the natural hindrance in grip one gets from wearing gloves in the first place.

Personal experience also indicated to me that it's harder to grip things, pick things up, or generally do anything that involves fine motor skill manipulation, while wearing a layer of dead animal skin over my digits.

I'm just not seeing the evidence for the case you're laying out. The assertion you're making appears unfounded to me.  

[evilcabbage]

actually after going through a forum for rock climbers, i have to say i was wrong entirely. or at least, there are specialized gloves to enhance grip.

however, climbing gloves would be more useful for wood, with the spikes, rather than climbing rock.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pWzZdBpCHk



cross posting.

[Jave]

Cross posting as well to note here for posterity that you are both a gentleman and a scholar.

And yes I agree with you vis a vis climbing gloves. The ones we have described in game along with the boots and ankle spikes are really designed for gripping relatively soft surfaces like wood. Probably wouldn't be so useful for stone which is what you're climbing 99% of the time in Zalanthas.

[evilcabbage]

everybody uses them to climb cliffs.


there was mention of something about lizard scales enhancing grip in that rock climbing forum.

maybe that would be a good place to look for information about how to climb stuff and how lizards scales enhance their grip.

[bcw81]

The only time I have ever used climbing gloves/climbing spikes was when I was a Byn sergeant. NO FALLING OFF CLIFFS FOR ME, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

[John]

The only time I have ever used climbing gloves/climbing spikes was when I was a Byn sergeant. NO FALLING OFF CLIFFS FOR ME, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Bash needs to have the option of bashing someone in a direction. Bash BCW81 North.

[Asmoth]

The only time I have ever used climbing gloves/climbing spikes was when I was a Byn sergeant. NO FALLING OFF CLIFFS FOR ME, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Bash needs to have the option of bashing someone in a direction. Bash BCW81 North.

So you wanna play a Carru?  Special app it!

[Kyviantre]

I use riding gloves (knit with rubberised grips on them) for walking dogs during the winter, and my hands slip on the lead a lot more than when I am either wearing fingerless non-grippy gloves or bare handed (although less than just plain knit!).  Equally, I used fingerless gloves for LARPing because a) it was blitheringly cold, and b) because full gloves gave less grip.  I think the code makes sense, imho 

[John]

So you wanna play a Carru?  Special app it!

Dude, if I was going to special app an animal I would totally special app a lank, find a newbie and then go on wacky adventures.

[solera]

So you wanna play a Carru?  Special app it!

Dude, if I was going to special app an animal I would totally special app a lank, find a newbie and then go on wacky adventures.

Lank? Larping kank? So would I!

[Miradus]

I use riding gloves (knit with rubberised grips on them) for walking dogs during the winter, and my hands slip on the lead a lot more than when I am either wearing fingerless non-grippy gloves or bare handed (although less than just plain knit!).  Equally, I used fingerless gloves for LARPing because a) it was blitheringly cold, and b) because full gloves gave less grip.  I think the code makes sense, imho 

Part of the enhanced grip design came from gloves but when metalcrafting became significantly advanced enough to create articulated gloves then you started seeing sword and knife handles evolve to fit them. They were slightly thicker and covered in materials that specifically could be held onto. Sharkskin was one such material used in Japan.

There is no good reason for ALL gloves to make you easier to disarm. Blood and sweat getting between flesh and the surface of the weapon's grip would be a much greater factor than a basic leather glove. I can see if you're wearing a giant set of bone mittens that you'd lose gripping power but a pair of tregil-hide gloves would actually ENHANCE your gripping power.

[RogueGunslinger]

The effect is negligible. Not really worth worrying over. Certainly not worth going in and specifically changing the values of every glove item.

[Jihelu]

I wouldn't really mind there being two types of gloves.
A
"You can hold shit better" glove
And a "You drop shit more often but armor" glove