Bar Fighting

[Asmoth]

If you talked shit and got KTFO shouldn't you probably be robbed of most of your shit? Seems fitting.

Yup.

This is a game that about three rooms from the city you can murder someone for absolutely no reason.

But we are now suddenly worried that you might get knocked out in a bar fight?

Ok buddy better just       wait until you walk in, and get me and my buddies to brawl you 10 times really quick to knock you out (no crim flag) then subdue you (no crim flag) and drag you into an alley where I can kill you (no crim flag). Murder corruption betrayal, right?! That's the height of game design you're talking about here. The pinnacle.  

Using code to your advantage isn't a bad thing.

[manipura]

If you talked shit and got KTFO shouldn't you probably be robbed of most of your shit? Seems fitting.

Yup.

This is a game that about three rooms from the city you can murder someone for absolutely no reason.

But we are now suddenly worried that you might get knocked out in a bar fight?

Ok buddy better just       wait until you walk in, and get me and my buddies to brawl you 10 times really quick to knock you out (no crim flag) then subdue you (no crim flag) and drag you into an alley where I can kill you (no crim flag). Murder corruption betrayal, right?! That's the height of game design you're talking about here. The pinnacle. 

Using code to your advantage isn't a bad thing.

Well, just because the code allows you to do something, it doesn't mean you should disregard the game world to do it.

[whitt]

Using code to your advantage isn't a bad thing.

Suppose I'll edit out all the other things ahead of Delirium needing to do it and just say... no.  Plain.  No.  

Or maybe simply point out that using and abusing are two very different things.

[Asanadas]

Using code to your advantage isn't a bad thing.

Suppose I'll edit out all the other things ahead of Delirium needing to do it and just say... no.  Plain.  No.  

Or maybe simply point out that using and abusing are two very different things.

I'd concur. You know when people talk about not wanting to give other players the benefit of the doubt -- to always be looking at the meta side not to lose out terribly -- well, there are players around that make such a caution a necessity. Wish that wasn't the case. That's the type of reason why brawl code is limited, maybe. /back on topic

[Chettaman]

Bar fighting is the topic.
Bar fighting. If you want to do more than harm someone's pride than you use the ''kill'' command.
That's my take on it. If you want to knock someone out. There's a command for that.

During a bar fight: if you get too violent, like I do see many people do... you /should/ use the kill command. - but ... if you actually agree that you just wanted to hit the person then ''hit'' makes sense.
If you get into a fight where you actually want to beat someone to the inch of their life... that's the kill command. I know, I know... you don't want to go to jail. It is, of course, asking too much to allow your characters to suffer any consequence because this game is supposed to be fun. Oh well. I guess just keep spamming the ''hit'' command.

''hit'' and bar fight are two different things; although it is easy to use hit during a bar fight. It is just as easy to use ''kill''. ... it will still be a bar fight. But a very serious one.

[Miradus]

I've only seen one bar fight, and it was pretty ridiculous. The one guy emoted hitting every round and jump kicking up in the air like a scene from the Matrix (even though he was missing every round). The other guy didn't emote at all and the emoter was unconscious on the floor in about six rounds.

[Desertman]

I wish we would just go the route of unarmed combat isn't against the law in "brawl rooms". If you "brawl" it would just initiate basic unarmed combat just like any other unarmed combat. If you continued to attack someone after they were unconscious you would get a message like:

"They are already down. If you keep going it will be considered an attempt at murder and soldiers will react accordingly. Type "hit <target>" now if you wish to continue."

Keep the bitch-mode lock in place that makes it so you can't attack someone that is sitting down. (This prevents people from running in and attacking AFK players.)

While I don't like the whole, "They are on the magical safe-stool so you can't touch them no matter how much shit they talk." code, if we implemented actual unarmed coded combat into brawl rooms I see it as a necessary evil.

Right now I see most people use the brawl code as just another goofy spar-time-in-the-tavern mechanic to try and show off to everyone in a completely safe environment how "badass" they are.

9/10 times it's just goofy fucknuts that say shit like:

"Hey, it's our day off! Let's brawl each other good buddy!"
"Yeah good buddy! Let's brawl! It's so much fun!"

Then the room gets spammed up with fucking retards being fucking retards.

An actual element of danger needs to exist in the brawl code since in reality getting into a bar fight in Zalanthas shouldn't be "super safe fun time for the entire family", which is how it is treated now.

Edited to Add:

Not to mention the fucking idiots who don't realize that the brawl code doesn't take into account multiple opponents. I can't tell you how many times I've seen this:

"I am John The Bar Warrior! I just beat up four people at once by myself and didn't take a single hit in this bar! I am so badass!".

The fucknut doesn't realize the code works so that he is actually brawling four different people one at a time instead of four people all at once.

Just...what a shitshow that entire code is. A completely goofy shitshow.

[Synthesis]

Oh noooo, people are having fuuuuun.

Somebody stop them, quick!

[Asanadas]

If you want the Gaj to be emptier than it has been recently, then go ahead and put in a way for people to knock somebody out without coded repercussions. I guarantee you, there will be no- one but griefers in the Gaj waiting for someone important to walk in and punch.

[nauta]

A modest proposal:

o Eliminate the brawl code entirely.

o Create a room in each bar with no crim-code (move the soldiers out of sight, vNPCs won't flag you as a criminal or wanted).

o Make this room visible from the main room like the arena (just fluff, but it'd be cool).

[Synthesis]

There's already a crime-free room visible from the Gaj:  it's called "the street, at night."

Go get 'em, tigers. Knock yourselves out.

[Chettaman]

I can agree with making unarmed combat ----less---- illegal, Dman.
Get into a bar fight with hit and it's just fun and games.
Get into a bar fight with kill and it becomes combat! Then off to jail with you for I dunno... ten - twenty minutes ... or pay a fine or something.

[Patuk]

There's already a crime-free room visible from the Gaj:  it's called "the street, at night."

Go get 'em, tigers. Knock yourselves out.

Not anymore, thank fuck.

[Desertman]

I just feel the current brawl code has no place in the theme of Armageddon as a whole.

It is at its very best a cotton construct being paraded around in what's supposed to be a hardmode game.

I personally find it both IC'ly and OOC'ly jarring.

We have a game where physical conflict is supposed to be a serious affair, but we decided to write an entire code around physical conflict that turns it into The Lord of The Rings meets World Wrestling Entertainment.

Every time someone starts using the brawl code I expect to see The Nacho Can Sandy Ravage come running in from the north shouting, "Ooooh yeahhh! ELBOW OFF THE BARTOP! LET THE FAKE BLOOD FLOW!!!".

[Jihelu]

I just feel the current brawl code has no place in the theme of Armageddon as a whole.

It is at its very best a cotton construct being paraded around in what's supposed to be a hardmode game.

I personally find it both IC'ly and OOC'ly jarring.

We have a game where physical conflict is supposed to be a serious affair, but we decided to write an entire code around physical conflict that turns it into The Lord of The Rings meet World Wrestling Entertainment.

Every time someone starts using the brawl code I expect to see The Nacho Can Sandy Ravage come running in from the north shouting, "Ooooh yeahhh! ELBOW OFF THE BARTOP! LET THE FAKE BLOOD FLOW!!!".

Which reminds me.
When are we getting slams/grapples?

[Desertman]

I just feel the current brawl code has no place in the theme of Armageddon as a whole.

It is at its very best a cotton construct being paraded around in what's supposed to be a hardmode game.

I personally find it both IC'ly and OOC'ly jarring.

We have a game where physical conflict is supposed to be a serious affair, but we decided to write an entire code around physical conflict that turns it into The Lord of The Rings meet World Wrestling Entertainment.

Every time someone starts using the brawl code I expect to see The Nacho Can Sandy Ravage come running in from the north shouting, "Ooooh yeahhh! ELBOW OFF THE BARTOP! LET THE FAKE BLOOD FLOW!!!".

Which reminds me.
When are we getting slams/grapples?

I don't know, but I just had a good laugh. This reminded me of the time I saw the dwarf Korath in game elbow drop a dead body.

I think the emote was something like...

The dwarf Korath leaps into the air and comes down on the already dead body of the so-and-so man giving him the elbow drop!

The guy had already been dead for a good thirty seconds but Korath just wasn't finished.

I laughed for a good long while.

[Miradus]

That's it. If I ever get in a barfight and knock my opponent out, I'm climbing up on the bar and jumping down on them, going for the pin.

[Riev]

That's it. If I ever get in a barfight and knock my opponent out, I'm climbing up on the bar and jumping down on them, going for the pin.

I wrote up a PC who wanted, more than anything else, to be a wrestler.

I could NOT figure out how to legally practice subduing things to train my awesome skills, and then realized size is SUCH a factor it wasn't worth while.

[Jihelu]

That's it. If I ever get in a barfight and knock my opponent out, I'm climbing up on the bar and jumping down on them, going for the pin.

I wrote up a PC who wanted, more than anything else, to be a wrestler.

I could NOT figure out how to legally practice subduing things to train my awesome skills, and then realized size is SUCH a factor it wasn't worth while.

Join the army.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

9/10 times it's just goofy fucknuts that say shit like:

"Hey, it's our day off! Let's brawl each other good buddy!"
"Yeah good buddy! Let's brawl! It's so much fun!"

Then the room gets spammed up with fucking retards being fucking retards.

That I can agree with you on. "Hey guys, we beat each other half to death with sticks 10 days a week, want to punch each other in the face for the other two?" (Too lazy to look up the Zalanthan calendar.) I think there was one time in my life were I had a bare knuckle fight for "fun". I was 16, drunk as hell, and we both gave up after a couple good hits each because at that point my face was lopsided and his eyebrow was cut open. Bare knuckle boxing isn't "fun", and I have a hard time believing people would do it if there wasn't at least some kind of money or dispute involved - which there never is in these cases.

That being said, I'm still not fond of the idea of completely opening up unarmed "kill" in the bar. The main reason being that, unarmed combat working as it does, an opponent with moderately higher offense and a good strength score can KO you in like 2-4 rounds, no problem. That's not enough time to emote, flee, or do much else. While I agree that there should be consequences to wandering into the Gaj and shit-talking a mercenary and his friends, usually it's the other way around. My personal experience has been that for every 1 bar brawl I've been in that had a realistic motive, 2 of them have resulted from bored Bynners attacking me with almost no provocation or warning. With subdue and steal working the way they do on unconscious people, I can see "brawling" replacing shit digging as the new Ocandra money maker.

[RogueGunslinger]

We're criticizing bar brawling now?   

[Desertman]

We're criticizing bar brawling now?  

Not bar brawling, just the code that currently governs bar brawling.

[Synthesis]

We're criticizing bar brawling now?  

Not bar brawling, just the code that currently governs bar brawling.

If the code were realistic, the combatants would get so winded within several flurries that they couldn't continue, and would spend the rest of the scene gasping for breath and trying to act hard.

Fighting is goddamn hard work.

[Desertman]

We're criticizing bar brawling now?  

Not bar brawling, just the code that currently governs bar brawling.

If the code were realistic, the combatants would get so winded within several flurries that they couldn't continue, and would spend the rest of the scene gasping for breath and trying to act hard.

Fighting is goddamn hard work.

Eh. I don't want to get into a debate about the realism of combat. I know guys that can fight at a high level for fifteen to twenty five minutes and come up still ready to go.

I also know guys who will gas in a minute and a half.

Zalanthans, especially PC's that are combat oriented, have been known on many occasions to fight spiders the size of a moving van with a stone sword in sandstorms and 130 degree weather quite literally ALL DAY.

I just don't feel the realism front is really the way to go here.

[Synthesis]

We're criticizing bar brawling now?  

Not bar brawling, just the code that currently governs bar brawling.

If the code were realistic, the combatants would get so winded within several flurries that they couldn't continue, and would spend the rest of the scene gasping for breath and trying to act hard.

Fighting is goddamn hard work.

Eh. I don't want to get into a debate about the realism of combat. I know guys that can fight at a high level for fifteen to twenty five minutes and come up still ready to go.

I also know guys who will gas in a minute and a half.

Zalanthans, especially PC's that are combat oriented, have been known on many occasions to fight spiders the size of a moving van with a stone sword in sandstorms and 130 degree weather quite literally ALL DAY.

I just don't feel the realism front is really the way to go here.

Well, yeah, if you have plenty of fighting experience, you can get away with it.

Most PCs "claim" to have plenty of fighting experience, but there aren't many who can actually fight spiders the size of a moving van and win, when you get right down to it.