Poll: Crafter subguilds

[Harmless]

I feel like it's unfair for the PCs that were born as mundane crafting subguilds to never be able to master their craft. A regular tailor should, eventually, master tailoring. Why restrict it to Merchants and extended subguilds? Why have mundane crafting subguilds at all if they never get to contribute to the gameworld meaningfully by submitting mastercrafts? Why not just allow every mundane crafter subguilded PC to eventually get that (master) so they can enjoy their character without having to store and re-create with a cumbersome app?

I just don't see the point. Extended subguilds can retain their additional, broadened skillset for all I care, but barring the (Master) doesn't improve my gaming experience and feels a lot like a trap.

[Narf]

I think mastercrafting is limited for OOC reasons, not IC. With this in mind I imagine if you made mastercrafts more available you'd probably have to do some sort of balancing act to lower the number submitted somehow.

Easiest way would be to reduce the frequency.

[Beethoven]

I wouldn't want the frequency reduced. Already you see a lack of mastercrafted items that aren't jewel-encrusted or silk-draped, because people don't want to "waste" their monthly mastercraft.

[Case]

Have the ability to Rinthicraft, Shitcraft and Averagecraft stuff too! Every 1 month or 2, but with a lower turnaround time. That'd be neat.

[wizturbo]

Have the ability to Rinthicraft, Shitcraft and Averagecraft stuff too! Every 1 month or 2, but with a lower turnaround time. That'd be neat.

Yeah, I agree with this.  You don't need to be a "master" to make some shitty cloak with a red stripe on it for your little band of raiders.  I'd rather just say "masters" get their current "mastercraft" cadence they enjoy today, whereas anyone with a crafting skill can create a custom item every 6 RL months, but it'll just be some average nothing special kind of item.

[Harmless]

Have the ability to Rinthicraft, Shitcraft and Averagecraft stuff too! Every 1 month or 2, but with a lower turnaround time. That'd be neat.

This is an awesome idea also.

[Lizzie]

If someone wants to be a master tailor, he has two options already: guild_merchant, which requires no karma or special app at all, or extended master-tailor subguild. Everyone can master something - Rangers can master lots of rangerly-things, warriors can master weapon use, whirans can master whiran spells, etc. etc. Merchants are the ones who can master tailoring. People aren't supposed to be able to master everything, that's why our system is set up the way it is.

If you want to be capable of tailoring in general, pick tailor subguild. If you want to be capable of mastering it, pick either merchant or master-tailor extended subguild. The bonus, is that no matter which one you pick, you can ALSO master all kinds of other things. In the case of merchant, you can master every crafting skill available for mastering. In the case of the subguild, you can also master the main skills that your primary guild comes with.

What I do see, is that people want to be able to create new items for the game, more often. I agree. I think any rinthi with a crafting subguild or skill on their main guild, should be able to submit at least one or two new items once they've gotten the highest level of proficiency their guild/subguild allows in the craft. I don't think it should even have to be master level.

All desert elves with skill in making armor, should be capable of submitting one or two new armor pieces using local flora and fauna, once their armor crafting skill has maxed to whatever it should be given their guild and subguild.

ALL Salarr merchant-guild crafters should be able to submit twice as many weapon/armor crafts as any other crafter in the game, and ALL Kadius merchant-guild crafters should be able to submit twice as many clothing/jewelry/furniture crafts as any other crafter in the game. Kurac merchant-guild crafters should be allowed to submit twice as many pipe/smoking devices/desert gear.

But some generic nobody commoner from Red Storm who picked ranger for the desert-quit and scan/hunt/listen options, and normal jeweler subguild, shouldn't be granted the ability to mastercraft jewerly, just because someone thinks it's a good idea. There needs to be some reason why it -should- be implemented, and "I like it" or "I want it" is not a valid reason.

[Delirium]

I think the term "master craft" is misleading. I know it's been suggested before but:

"custom craft" should be what it is called, and has a pre-req of master skill, and a quality limit of "good"
"master craft" has a pre-req of master skill and membership in a GMH, and a quality limit of "as long as it can be feasibly made using Zalanthan resources".

Too often people use master crafting to create high end fancy items instead of simple or mid-range items so it becomes an arms-race of fancy shit made by Joe Amos living in a hovel.

[Molten Heart]

It's possible to persuade staff to create new craftable objects for the game, especially if they think they'll add something and they have time, especially if someone just sends the items to them. Being incredibly well written is going to be a big plus.

[valeria]

If what you're trying to make is too specialized/crazy/high brow for your available resources, staff will let you know, says a veteran of many master-level merchant guild characters.

As for the actual idea, no. I'm 100% with Lizzie on this one.

[CodeMaster]

A compromise might be to let artisan-type characters submit recipes for existing items.  Maybe more frequently than once a month.  I personally feel like that might be beneficial!

[Fujikoma]

I'm with Harmless on this one. We seem to have a disgreement as to where the plethora of gem-encrusted wiz-bang-doodles originates from. I believe it originates from the amount of time and specialization required to actually mastercraft a thing, and is why you see fewer dragon-shaped shit-sculptures on the roadside.

[BadSkeelz]

I agree with Delirium that the term "master craft" is misleading. It doesn't mean the craft has to be of masterful quality, it just means you have to have Master skill to submit. "Custom Crafts" would be more fitting.

Master Crafts being limited to people with Master tailoring is a sensible OOC limitation. Otherwise you'll have every subguild_tailor who's achieved mastery by making several dozen tube socks submitting master crafts to staff. I wouldn't be opposed to people with advanced crafting skills (i.e. those that have reached their subguild cap) being able to submit mastercrafts every 6 months or something.

[Case]

Or I dunno, have no turnaround and let sraff build it as they want to.

[Fujikoma]

Or I dunno, have no turnaround and let sraff build it as they want to.

This, too, would be excellent, but no one wants staff accused of favoritism, which, this would be an open door to.

[Case]

Or I dunno, have no turnaround and let sraff build it as they want to.

This, too, would be excellent, but no one wants staff accused of favoritism, which, this would be an open door to.

If players think that would be favoritism, they are going to struggle with the real world. Calling favoritism on every little thing is what children do. Treat them as such

[Fujikoma]

Or I dunno, have no turnaround and let sraff build it as they want to.

This, too, would be excellent, but no one wants staff accused of favoritism, which, this would be an open door to.

If players think that would be favoritism, they are going to struggle with the real world. Calling favoritism on every little thing is what children do. Treat them as such

I'm saying it's a very real concern. I, personally, wouldn't, but it's not me alone that needs to be considered when weighing policies. It's the reality of the situation.

[Case]

Or I dunno, have no turnaround and let sraff build it as they want to.

This, too, would be excellent, but no one wants staff accused of favoritism, which, this would be an open door to.

If players think that would be favoritism, they are going to struggle with the real world. Calling favoritism on every little thing is what children do. Treat them as such

I'm saying it's a very real concern. I, personally, wouldn't, but it's not me alone that needs to be considered when weighing policies. It's the reality of the situation.

It's really not if there's no guarantee of turnaround, but maybe it's a queue? I think people can understand it becoming a burden. Mastercrafts already have a turnaround that's quite long.

That said, catering to player jealousy when people already fly off the handle for perceived injustices when they have limited information turns everything into this buzzkill about favoritism

[Fujikoma]

Or I dunno, have no turnaround and let sraff build it as they want to.

This, too, would be excellent, but no one wants staff accused of favoritism, which, this would be an open door to.

If players think that would be favoritism, they are going to struggle with the real world. Calling favoritism on every little thing is what children do. Treat them as such

I'm saying it's a very real concern. I, personally, wouldn't, but it's not me alone that needs to be considered when weighing policies. It's the reality of the situation.

It's really not if there's no guarantee of turnaround, but maybe it's a queue? I think people can understand it becoming a burden. Mastercrafts already have a turnaround that's quite long.

That said, catering to player jealousy when people already fly off the handle for perceived injustices when they have limited information turns everything into this buzzkill about favoritism

Deciding who mastercrafts what, and in what timeframe, is best restricted to guidelines... what is proposed here is an adjustment to who gets to make what, and while it would create extra burden, I, personally, believe it would pay off if, as others have suggested, it's changed from "master-crafting" to "custom-crafting", and the restrictions are lifted a little bit. I think you've already made a well thought out post that I agree with.

[Saellyn]

Mastercrafts belong to masters. Master tailors, master armormakers, and merchants who master stuff.

[Fujikoma]

Mastercrafts belong to masters. Master tailors, master armormakers, and merchants who master stuff.

Shush, you, any idiot can make a dung-sculpture.

[BadSkeelz]

Or I dunno, have no turnaround and let sraff build it as they want to.

This, too, would be excellent, but no one wants staff accused of favoritism, which, this would be an open door to.

If players think that would be favoritism, they are going to struggle with the real world. Calling favoritism on every little thing is what children do. Treat them as such

I'm saying it's a very real concern. I, personally, wouldn't, but it's not me alone that needs to be considered when weighing policies. It's the reality of the situation.

It's really not if there's no guarantee of turnaround, but maybe it's a queue? I think people can understand it becoming a burden. Mastercrafts already have a turnaround that's quite long.

That said, catering to player jealousy when people already fly off the handle for perceived injustices when they have limited information turns everything into this buzzkill about favoritism

Armageddon players are already a generally neurotic bunch prone to persecution complexes. The current mastercraft submitting process seems to be a good compromise between "let players contribute!", "omg teh favoritism" and "Staffside work burden."

It's the last one that I think is the real reason for the current Master Crafting Process. Having to get to Master crafting is a useful gate for reducing the volume of mastercrafts that Satff have to work on. Can we expand it a bit? Yes, I think so. Just not very much. I cannot speak for other crafting but I know Tailoring is very easy to get to subguild cap. I imagine that every other crafting skill, provided you have the materials and a timer, is the same.

Let a capped subguild crafter submit a mastercraft every 6 RL months.

[Fujikoma]

Having mastercrafted some items that didn't turn out quite right,, I have reason to believe there is a bit of burden staff-side, particularly when a widget is created and turns out functioning like a sprocket. Fixing that takes staff time, and is costing something else they could be focused on... so while I WANT more dung-dragons in the street, I'm not sure it's feasible.

[RogueGunslinger]

I say get rid of crafter subguilds and just spread those low-capped skills across the main guilds.

[Fujikoma]

I say get rid of crafter subguilds and just spread those low-capped skills across the main guilds.

I said MORE dung dragons!

[Beethoven]

I know this almost certainly isn't feasible, but I think it'd be neat if there was just one crafting subguild. Once you pick that subguild, you would be allowed to choose one or two crafts from the usual suspects. Pick two and you will learn each of them up to advanced. Pick one and you will be able to master it. All the other non-crafting subguilds could remain the same.

[Case]

A player mastercraft entry form with values mapped to construction values will help workflow.