Food Aging -- Discussion Thread

[nessalin]

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,49825.msg916424.html#msg916424

[Lizzie]

I love this - although I do have one nitpicky request/suggestion:

DRIED food such as jerky - can last for years and never spoils. SMOKED food can last a very long time before spoiling. If it's possible to isolate either/both of those foods and unflag the spoilage toggle, that'd be great.

Also certain [redacted] are made of food - maybe make them inedible so they can't spoil? Some of them are really difficult to acquire.

[nessalin]

I love this - although I do have one nitpicky request/suggestion:

DRIED food such as jerky - can last for years and never spoils. SMOKED food can last a very long time before spoiling. If it's possible to isolate either/both of those foods and unflag the spoilage toggle, that'd be great.

Different food types will age at different rates in future releases.  Changes will be incremental.

[In Dreams]

Hmm! I think I have mixed feelings on this right off the bat, with how quickly hunger seems to build up at times, but on the other hand it will encourage certain kinds of activity for independent sorts that could be good for the game.

Dried, preserved, and especially hardy food like nuts definitely needs the distinction that it doesn't spoil, though.

[Nathvaan]

Dried, preserved, and especially hardy food like nuts definitely needs the distinction that it doesn't spoil, though.

As Nessalin stated there will be a way in upcoming changes to set the longevity of different typed of food because of the methods of preservation available. (salting, curing, dried goods, etc)

But it also must be remembered there aren't modern chemical preservatives, refrigerators or freezers so it is unlikely that any food would last forever!

[Bast]

I think its good stuff but.....If I am hosting a big party and find PC's hunters to get me meat to use at said party..and they get it back to me 4-5 days before the party then I am not going to have food for my event because its now all rotten. The air tight storage containers need to be able to extend this. It would be hella impossible and very risky to hire pcs to gather you food and trust they will be able to log in the day of your event and get you everything you need.

[KankWhisperer]

I think its good stuff but.....If I am hosting a big party and find PC's hunters to get me meat to use at said party..and they get it back to me 4-5 days before the party then I am not going to have food for my event because its now all rotten. The air tight storage containers need to be able to extend this. It would be hella impossible and very risky to hire pcs to gather you food and trust they will be able to log in the day of your event and get you everything you need.

You have three days before the food spoils. Then cook it and you have another three days on top of that?

Oops it's 36 hours. So about 3 days total. Yeah a bit tight.

[Desertman]

Love this.

Looking forward to SALT becoming as valuable on the PC level as it should be for preservation purposes.

Did you know the Roman Legions used to actually get paid in salt at one time because it was that valuable?

I hope that when we start adding "Preservation Extensions" to this food we update the preserved food crafting recipes to make them realistic.

I see this adding a whole new and much needed dynamic to the economy surrounding survival and hunters specifically in game.

[Desertman]

Realize I read the timing info wrong. - I agree with KW.

[whitt]

You have three days before the food spoils. Then cook it and you have another three days on top of that?

Don't forget it's 3RL days of logged in time.  So in reality even for the true Arm addict it's more like 6RL days of usable "raw ingredient" time.  Followed by the same amount of time on the prepared item.  So likely 1.5 to 2 RL weeks of usable food survival.

[Patuk]

Oh my, this is impressive

[nauta]

Brilliant change!  The magick of forever food has always gotten under my skin.  Thanks!

That said, I think Bast brings up a good point about parties (when entertaining, you don't want to stop RP to scrounge up the flavor props) and there might be other cases: some rare food items, like Lizzie suggests, and maybe food items that we might want to keep around just so we have the recipes for posterity -- e.g., rare Kadian cakes.

Two solutions (maybe this is in the works):

1. The META-FREEZER: make an item like the food bin which is a pure OOC convenience for certain clans (and tribes) to store 'samples' of rare food items, and maybe as a temporary spot for the party food.

2. The FLAVOR FOOD FLAG: flag some items as flavor (pun intended) -- mere roleplay props with little to no actual coded benefit from eating.

Is this in-game now? 

em races back to grab recipes

[Ath]

Food Preservation is already on the table, so don't worry on that one, it will come.  We've been doing a LOT of talking behind the scenes on this on ways we can do many things to assist players.  I know for one thing is we don't want to be a pain in the ass for players, but realistic.  This is why for casual players, just keep the food you're using on you.  IMO this makes the hunter career path a bit more valuable, as it should be.  Cooking could become a very valuable skill here soon with food preservation methods.

As for those in clans that have big events coming on where you had to have hunters get things, I can't say for all clans, but I know I will assist my players in what way we can to make this more frustration free.  I mean for Kadius, I load the food up as close to the event as a I can as it is.

[Lizzie]

Food Preservation is already on the table, so don't worry on that one, it will come.  We've been doing a LOT of talking behind the scenes on this on ways we can do many things to assist players.  I know for one thing is we don't want to be a pain in the ass for players, but realistic.  This is why for casual players, just keep the food you're using on you.  IMO this makes the hunter career path a bit more valuable, as it should be.  Cooking could become a very valuable skill here soon with food preservation methods.

As for those in clans that have big events coming on where you had to have hunters get things, I can't say for all clans, but I know I will assist my players in what way we can to make this more frustration free.  I mean for Kadius, I load the food up as close to the event as a I can as it is.

I don't know if this is already coded, or used to be coded (similar used to be coded with a certain sample box from Kurac):

But on staff-side, if there's a party and food has been acquired by PCs - they could load it into a specially-coded box - and the box be held by an NPC merchant that exists just for the purpose. The merchant can be renamed "special party storage dood" so everyone knows that's where the stuff goes. That way, the stuff in that bin won't degrade, and the staff can release it within 24 hours of the party - and dump it if it doesn't get used without having to junk each individual thing. You just junk the bin and everything inside it disappears.

[Desertman]

Now let's just do away with House NPC Cooks for lower-ranked commoner employees and suddenly House hunters are actually needed on a regular basis and what they do actually matters more often.

Shit, I might even play a House hunter if this were the case.

Also House PC cooks would become a much more needed and enjoyable thing to play. Not my cup of tea exactly, but I can see a lot of other people loving it.

[Delirium]

Love it.

Let's make sure to update the skinning results from killing animals with more meat/bones as would be realistic, though. And add meat to those who don't give any.

There are a lot of animals out there that didn't get updated when the rest did, to provide more meat/bone/guts, etc.

Jakhal, tregil, goudra, tandu, etc, etc, etc.

You should be able to kill one animal and have enough to eat off of for the next couple days, rather than having to go on a mass slaughter just to make sure you have meat.

[Nathvaan]

Love it.
Let's make sure to update the skinning results from killing animals with more meat/bones as would be realistic, though. And add meat to those who don't give any.

Yup, things like this have already been in discussion. I don't think the details are 100% hashed out yet but things like this are on the radar for sure. =)

[Desertman]

Love it.

Let's make sure to update the skinning results from killing animals with more meat/bones as would be realistic, though. And add meat to those who don't give any.

There are a lot of animals out there that didn't get updated when the rest did, to provide more meat/bone/guts, etc.

Jakhal, tregil, goudra, tandu, etc, etc, etc.

You should be able to kill one animal and have enough to eat off of for the next couple days, rather than having to go on a mass slaughter just to make sure you have meat.

I have noticed this as well.

Saltworms give you no meat at all. Just an example. What an awkward situation that was the first time I found this out...especially since there are saltworm meat items you can buy in game already.

[rodic]

This is wonderful actually.

I'm assuming it also rots with in a Merchants inventory?  No more after reboot mad dash to the Grocer?

[Desertman]

This is wonderful actually.

I'm assuming it also rots with in a Merchants inventory?  No more after reboot mad dash to the Grocer?

I believe it says it doesn't rot in a Merchant's inventory actually.

[rodic]

Just saw it, must of glossed over it.  That sucks actually but I guess helpful to facilitate PC to PC trade.

That Grocer is usually up to his neck in Scrab steaks and Chalton meat, was hoping that no longer be the case. 

[Lizzie]

Just saw it, must of glossed over it.  That sucks actually but I guess helpful to facilitate PC to PC trade.

That Grocer is usually up to his neck in Scrab steaks and Chalton meat, was hoping that no longer be the case. 

Actually, this might result in a much-needed improvement: PCs actually BUYING food from the grocer instead of only selling it. And of course the resulting reduction in cost to the NPC and sale price to the PC (since now that the NPC is actually selling shit he can afford to lower the prices and reject stupid demands for high costs on cheap cuts).

[Large Hero]

A wonderful step in the direction of a more realistic economy, which the game sorely needs. An incredibly good change.

[manipura]

You have three days before the food spoils. Then cook it and you have another three days on top of that?

Don't forget it's 3RL days of logged in time.  So in reality even for the true Arm addict it's more like 6RL days of usable "raw ingredient" time.  Followed by the same amount of time on the prepared item.  So likely 1.5 to 2 RL weeks of usable food survival.

While it's 3 days of RL time, I assume that's only if it's in your inventory.  So for all these party-planning-people with food concerns, I think that their food concerns are still valid because they'd have far too much of it to pile into their character's inventory when logging out.

All in all, I think it's a good thing.  Only question about it would be like Lizzie already touched on.  Not all foods are going to spoil at the same rate, some foods will take a really, really, -really- long time to spoil and others likely not at all. 

Once all the changes are in, is it going to be food either spoils or doesn't?  Or will there be in between levels of spoilage depending on the food? 
I can see raw meat spoiling quickly, and some fruits as well.  But something like flour, while eventually spoiling, will take a long time to do so. 

I'm thinking that the additional changes that are upcoming will consider non-preserved-but-essentially-non-perishables VS very-slow-to-spoil-perishables VS preserved-and-in-essence-now-unperishables.

[wizturbo]

Love it.

As defacto "Magick is awesome" party leader I would like to suggest some new spells surrounding food preservation (or rotting for that matter) be created too.  It would be fairly awesome if certain magickers could curse people/rooms to make food items on them rot.