Feedback Poll - Which subguild do you hate?

[solera]

I've always like the feel of acrobat, as a "you can't catch me even if I'm weak" skillset, ethough I don't know how stats stack up. Though, really, I put it on a ranger and a burglar, which is a bit dumb. The ranger could climb up anything without blinking, fully armed and shielded when he got "led " up cliffs without me having time to react.

[Kankfly]

I feel like bard don't seem to have much use other than listen and the ability to play instruments. Maybe if it's tweaked some, it'll be good. I remember it used to have instrument making and then it got removed for some reason.

[Jihelu]

Last I checked you don't actually play instruments or am I crazy?

[Rhyden]

Tinker + General Crafter.

[Narf]

Tinker + General Crafter.

I like that there are crafting subguilds for the less valuable crafts, but I think they should probably have more skills than the higher tier crafting subguilds to make up for it. Tinkers in particular only appear to have three skills, which is tied for the least of any subguild.

[Kankfly]

Last I checked you don't actually play instruments or am I crazy?

If I remember right, you can 'play <instrument>'.

But it's been a while, so I might be wrong.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

Anyone can >play <instrument>

[Lizzie]

Bards can -craft- instruments.

If you were to mix bard, linguist, and house servant into a single subguild, that'd probably garner a lot of interest for players who want to get deep into the socialization aspect of arm.

[bardlyone]

Bards can -craft- instruments.

If you were to mix bard, linguist, and house servant into a single subguild, that'd probably garner a lot of interest for players who want to get deep into the socialization aspect of arm.

I could seriously get behind this.

My three lowest: tinker, con artist, and general crafter.

tinker has nothing really to offer but making tools, which is pointless because tools are primarily useful for crafters - other crafters, and taking it with merchant to have those other crafting talents, is redundant af.

con artist - this one ties with bard, honestly, but since I do less stealth than socializing I just picked it over bard, they're equally as pointless with equally as little to offer.

general crafter - generally useless. other crafting subs at least sort of have the pretense of 'well, this is my profession but I'm no prodigy (no mastercrafting)', but what is the focus of this even? it feels like a patchwork to throw random crafting skills together that you couldn't find another reason to give to a subguild.

[LauraMars]

Bards can -craft- instruments.

This hasn't been the case since at least 2007.

[Erythil]

I'd like to see an 'artist' subguild that lets you mastercraft a painting every couple of months or so.

[Inks]

Archer - Useless with Hunter around, all the same stuff but less. Non Journeyman+ archery in general is pretty useless, and I doubt Archer goes to advanced. Who knows, never used it.

It goes to advanced.

My least favorite general crafter, acrobat, and linguist I guess.

[AdamBlue]

So kicking, climbing and fleeing, not to mention some awesome RP chances for Acrobat. Despite this, it seems like it could be improved somehow.

[Jihelu]

Bards, to my understanding, GET NO crafting abilities.
Instrument crafting branches from [figure it out nerds] and you can probably guess what guild gets it.
Hint.
It isn't warrior.

[Riev]

I picked Acrobat, Caravan Guide, and apparently Guard though I meant to do General crafter. Was doing a lot of alt-tabbing.

Regardless, I've PICKED acrobat before because I felt it fit the background of my character at the time, and I don't see how the skills it provided really assisted the gameplay, I could have just kept the background without being an acrobat. Granted, the main guild was warrior, so WORST. PICK. EVER. Most guilds that would need flee, have it. Kick is one of the most underutilized skills (I had a warrior at 50d played and couldn't get past advanced, kicks still got absorbed), and other better subguilds have climb.

Caravan Guide I chose because while it DOES have direction sense, Pilot is almost never used except by a rare few (and in those cases, people don't pilot, the NPC is told where to go), and having a decent assess skill is also useless if you don't have barter. What good is knowing that item's worth is 200 coins if the NPC won't barter you past 30?

General Crafter just... wugh. Dyeing isn't exactly sought after and is applicable only in a few instances, vines and such aren't exactly readily available in 'Nak, and again... blind assess with no haggle. Frankly, other than knowing the 'weight' of something (I have a suspicion that high assess means 'truer' weight of items), I don't even see where the skill is useful.

[Rokal]

my reasons are gona be a bit weird sincei havent played every subguild out there.

thief: I see this as a balance issue. Why does the thief subguild start with sleight of hand but pickpocket does not?
Scavenger: I personally think the ability to forage for food should be a bit more broadned out, a few more subguilds or something. I also think scavenger should have Dir sense.
I voted tinker but i was sleepy as heck at the time, i'd actually change my last vote to acrobat.

Mostly for the exact same reasons as riev has said, I'm not sure what to suggest for it, but it definetly needs some overhauling.

[Dar]

Linguist is a good pick for merchants, because if you're a merchant, most other subguilds are pretty irrelevant. The only ones that are of real use would be linguist, physician for brew, or nomad if you're hoping to play a traveling merchant.

I dont particularly like tinkerer because it doesnt tend to make a character well rounded. I can see a ranger having weapons making, because he tends to have a lot of bones and stones that weapons are made out of. I can see 'any guild' jeweler, because it's a cool hobby and it's something someone would apprentice for, but stop due to life happening.

Why would someone learn how to make tools specifically and not go further in this?
I find con artist to be useless. The skills con artists offers are absolutely awesome. But not awesome enough to warrant losing instead of some others. I've played a lot of con artists. I can still be truthful when I say that every single of my elf PCs swindled someone within the first 24 hours played. But none of them were subguilded con artist.

I dont like acrobat, but I dont like kick skill in general. I find it to be absolutely jarring.

[cali]

I like acrobat better now after picking a class I thought would have flee!

I picked tinker, general crafter, and con artist.

[KankWhisperer]

So this is what it looks like to me.

Great subguilds (<1%):
Armormaker
Hunter
Jeweler
Mercenary
Nomad
Scavenger
Tailor
Thug

Good subguilds(<5%):
Archer
Clay Worker
Forester
Guard
Linguist
Physician
Rebel
Thief

Mediocre subguilds that might need some tweaking: (< 10%):
Bard
Caravan Guide
Con Artist

Bad subguilds that should have something done about them (> 10%):
Acrobat
General Crafter
Tinker
   

So I think someone would need to think what makes Thug and Hunter so good but General Crafter, Acrobat, and Tinker so hated.

[RogueGunslinger]

General crafter and Tinker are so bad they should be considered outliers.

I'm not sure why people like hunter so much. It's good, but has tons of overlap with other subs. Also not sure why people seem to dislike acrobat, probably becuase it has only 3 skills. Maybe it needs something like + to agility. But that's a whole can of worms that likely doesn't need opening.

Jeweler, Tailor and Armorcrafter are obvious. Armorcrafting takes forever to branch on merchants and is amazing on a ranger. The other 2 are the big money-makers as far as crafting goes.

[Riev]

I think hunter is popular not only for the wilderness abilities but also because it offers a decent amount of skinning and direction sense. Also, it offers like 5 skills that might have SOME overlap but not for all characters. I'd imagine its a decent sub for a magicker that wants to be self-sufficient and not a scavenger.

[Marauder Moe]

Caravan Guide is that high up there?  Really?  It's got 3 solid skills and a language.

[KankWhisperer]

Caravan Guide is that high up there?  Really?  It's got 3 solid skills and a language.

Borderline, it was like 5.5% when I sorted them out.

[solera]

I picked Acrobat, Caravan Guide, and apparently Guard though I meant to do General crafter. Was doing a lot of alt-tabbing.

Regardless, I've PICKED acrobat before because I felt it fit the background of my character at the time, and I don't see how the skills it provided really assisted the gameplay, I could have just kept the background without being an acrobat. Granted, the main guild was warrior, so WORST. PICK. EVER. Most guilds that would need flee, have it. Kick is one of the most underutilized skills (I had a warrior at 50d played and couldn't get past advanced, kicks still got absorbed), and other better subguilds have climb.

Better sub guilds? Does any other sub guild apart from scavenger have climb?

[BadSkeelz]

Better sub guilds? Does any other sub guild apart from scavenger have climb?

Acrobat.

Edit: Which technically answers solera's question. Far as I know, Acrobat and Scavenger are the only two with climb.