Climb changes -- Discussion Thread

[nessalin]

Release Notes for 10/26/2015

Please stay on topic.

[Nyr]

Noice.  I've been wanting that "fuck the leader" follow code for a while now.

[Is Friday]

Finally.

[LauraMars]

That auto-stop code is going to save a lot of lives.

I HATE THIS CHANGE. 





jk I love this change. 

[azuriolinist]

Oh, nice. Love these changes!

[RogueGunslinger]

Yes. This is exactly what I was thinking about when it came to climb. Amazing job, thank you.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

Those of you with an excuse ought to try it out and make sure it works and all that.

[Olafson]

The end of the mass Bynner death.

[LauraMars]

Next time I have a bynner I'm gonna follow Sarge off the shield wall anyway.  Just for old time's sake.

[Delirium]

Now I'm less likely to die due to others' keystroke mishaps!

Good change.

[Lizzie]

suggestion:  add "no-save climbfollow" for those who -want- to automatically follow their leader in (like if you're a desert elf with max-climb, es/eping climbing tools, wearing climbing boots, climbing gloves, climbing spikes, and a harness, and want to take a chance).

Also, does this only apply to auto-fall rooms, or any rooms with a climbable drop (no matter how difficult the climb)?

[nessalin]

Also, does this only apply to auto-fall rooms, or any rooms with a climbable drop (no matter how difficult the climb)?

All fall rooms, climbable or not.

[Desertman]

-Message sent when climbing with both hands full (and neither hand is holding a climb tool).
"Struggling with a jeweled iron dagger and a hooded lantern in your hands, you carefully climb west."

Don't you mean - "Scrambling like a beast with frozen whisky hammers for testicles you climb west while holding a real frozen whisky hammer and a limited edition 1986 Playboy."

If you fail now...that's another story....

[Ath]

We may actually get Nessalin over 100 posts with all this stuff.  This one has been rather nice to see come in.  So happy!

[Lizzie]

Also, does this only apply to auto-fall rooms, or any rooms with a climbable drop (no matter how difficult the climb)?

All fall rooms, climbable or not.

Oh then we definitely need a "nosave climbfollow" option. I imagine there are actually times when you know you're heading for a climb, and everyone in your group has proven capable, and the inconvenience of not following, and going in one at a time, would be more time consuming than taking everyone in one fell swoop. Not to mention those times when you have one person in the group who had to go AFK for a couple of minutes and is fully capable of making the climb (that happens pretty often in my experience).

[Desertman]

Also, does this only apply to auto-fall rooms, or any rooms with a climbable drop (no matter how difficult the climb)?

All fall rooms, climbable or not.

Oh then we definitely need a "nosave climbfollow" option. I imagine there are actually times when you know you're heading for a climb, and everyone in your group has proven capable, and the inconvenience of not following, and going in one at a time, would be more time consuming than taking everyone in one fell swoop. Not to mention those times when you have one person in the group who had to go AFK for a couple of minutes and is fully capable of making the climb (that happens pretty often in my experience).

This here is a good idea. It's not often you have a hardcore crew who can climb in groups...but I've had a couple and yes this would have come up.

[Delirium]

Eh it makes sense enough to go up/down a fall room one at a time. There's usually a limited number of routes up/down any given rock face.

Let's not even get started on climbing down a well.

Anything that slows a group down while travelling and makes them consider the environment they're in is a-ok in my book.

[MeTekillot]

You mean I can hide near a cliff face and pick off runner fuckface and friends since they're the last to go into the perilous hole?

[MeTekillot]

And use climb rooms to break a stern chase without cheesing 'unhitch'?

[Desertman]

[Narf]

The end of the mass Bynner death.

It is indeed an end of an era.

[Refugee]

Huzzah!

[Ath]

And use climb rooms to break a stern chase without cheesing 'unhitch'?

You mean I can hide near a cliff face and pick off runner fuckface and friends since they're the last to go into the perilous hole?

And these would be circumstances of abuse of code.  I would "hope" that our players wouldn't do something like that.

[LauraMars]

I dunno, I think literally jumping off a cliff to get away from pursuit seems pretty realistic to me.

[Ath]

I dunno, I think literally jumping off a cliff to get away from pursuit seems pretty realistic to me.

That's a good point, I could see that.  Once again, with a lot of those cases, it is going to be a case by case basis. 

[Riev]

Because this is with all climb checks, what about if a delf ranger is shadowing someone who tries to go up a cliff? Or an elf assassin in the city and someone starts climbing up a wall?

I mean, it DOES make sense to have to go one at a time, but ... You know. Elves, man.

[palomar]

Noice.  I've been wanting that "fuck the leader" follow code for a while now.

Everyone on the Tuluk side who followed Atum from Iskandir to Tyn Dashra were quite happy there were no cliffs to fall off on the way.

Also, nice changes!

[CodeMaster]

I dunno, I think literally jumping off a cliff to get away from pursuit seems pretty realistic to me.

That's a good point, I could see that.  Once again, with a lot of those cases, it is going to be a case by case basis. 

Is a "falling room" the same as a climb room?  I think they are different.

Byn might still need to watch their step.

[LauraMars]

Is a "falling room" the same as a climb room?  I think they are different.

Byn might still need to watch their step.

Also, does this only apply to auto-fall rooms, or any rooms with a climbable drop (no matter how difficult the climb)?

All fall rooms, climbable or not.

[CodeMaster]

Is a "falling room" the same as a climb room?  I think they are different.

Byn might still need to watch their step.

Also, does this only apply to auto-fall rooms, or any rooms with a climbable drop (no matter how difficult the climb)?

All fall rooms, climbable or not.

Thanks. :S

[MeTekillot]

Climbing to escape followers is abuse of code? Yo hold on

[MeTekillot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjQ6ZtyXoA0&t=1m20s

[Armaddict]

Climbing to escape followers is abuse of code? Yo hold on

I think they had a different scenario in mind.  There's no way climb checks are code abuse when used to deter shadowing people.  That would just be...ridiculous, and make it so that your actual line of thinking on being shadowed would have to be 'Oh shit, someone's following me, I can't climb anywhere.'

They were thinking of something else.

[MeTekillot]

Cheesing unhitch?

[Armaddict]

And these would be circumstances of abuse of code.  I would "hope" that our players wouldn't do something like that.

This is the second time I've seen a staffer make an outright assertion that this is abuse in all cases.  And neither of those instances are abuse of code, and now that I examine them, I can't even find the circumstances where they -would- be abuse.  This is how you're making the world work.  People knowing how the world works is not abuse.  Otherwise you may as well start accusing Leonidas of 'abusing physics' because he knew only a certain amount of people could get into a narrow opening, or all those parkour villains of 'abusing fear' because they can go where someone chasing them cannot.

Cheesing unhitch?

I prefer flee self, myself.  It rewards people for using watch.

[whitt]

This is the second time I've seen a staffer make an outright assertion that this is abuse in all cases.  And neither of those instances are abuse of code, and now that I examine them, I can't even find the circumstances where they -would- be abuse. 

You saw two posts further down... this, right?

That's a good point, I could see that.  Once again, with a lot of those cases, it is going to be a case by case basis. 

They're (mostly) human.  Sometimes they hop to wrong conclusions.

[Ath]

And these would be circumstances of abuse of code.  I would "hope" that our players wouldn't do something like that.

This is the second time I've seen a staffer make an outright assertion that this is abuse in all cases.  And neither of those instances are abuse of code, and now that I examine them, I can't even find the circumstances where they -would- be abuse.  This is how you're making the world work.  People knowing how the world works is not abuse.  Otherwise you may as well start accusing Leonidas of 'abusing physics' because he knew only a certain amount of people could get into a narrow opening, or all those parkour villains of 'abusing fear' because they can go where someone chasing them cannot.

Cheesing unhitch?

I prefer flee self, myself.  It rewards people for using watch.

Just because I missed your context, which was vague in it's own right, you didn't take the second post into the consideration for your response.  What I meant in this is, if people are purposefully utilizing the new code in ways in which it is not intended, that is abused and against the rules.  Now if you are playing a character that is getting chased and you jump off the Shield Wall to get away, well... more power too you, I hope your neck snaps wonderfully when you hit the ground.  But taking utilizing it to clear yourself from being followed, or whatever, what it isn't attended for, that's what I mean.

I try to be the nice guy here, please don't take my words out of context.  Just like whitt quoted in my second post, everything is handled on a case by case basis.  Just use your judgement here, we all want to play the game and have fun.

[Norcal]

I have been hunted in real life, and chased by bad guys, more than once. I can tell you that I use many tricks on a regular basis to minimize my  being caught. So in the context of Zalanthas, if someone knows or suspects that they are being followed, or is just super cautious..using a climb to break  a tail just seems like a smart thing to do.

So I like the change just for this.

I will however miss the quarterly ballet of the Byn. For this reason I think the Byn should be exempt from this new code change, and possibly Templars as well.

[Inks]

Awesome changes. I have much respect for the amount of good changes to code the last couple of months. Good job.

[Seeker]

Is the "check" when shooting a missile or being involved in combat (as initiator or target) a check against climb skill level (with appropriate modifiers) to see if you stay in place?

Or is it only a check to see if you are in a climb room when those type of things happen, and if you are, you auto-tumble?

[whitt]

Is the "check" when shooting a missile or being involved in combat (as initiator or target) a check against climb skill level (with appropriate modifiers) to see if you stay in place?

Or is it only a check to see if you are in a climb room when those type of things happen, and if you are, you auto-tumble?

This is probably still true

To clarify, this:

-Throwing now checks to see if your character should fall.
-Shooting now checks to see if your character should fall.

means this:

-Throwing in/from a room you are climbing in means that you will fall.
-Shooting in/from a room you are climbing in means that you will fall.

Before, the game wasn't running any checks at all--now it is, albeit a harsh check.

We have some more bugs with falling/climbing to iron out before expanding functionality.

[Molten Heart]

Love the new changes to climb with the messages about tools being used. And also the not following after people into climb rooms. The T'zai Byn falling over the shield wall jokes will be missed.

[solera]

I wish we could drop objects over the edge, eg off buildings, down wells.

[CodeMaster]

I wish we could drop objects over the edge, eg off buildings, down wells.

With rangers you can shoot arrows into the adjacent room using shoot east near or something similar.  Unfortunately watch doesn't pick up the messages of the item falling.

[solera]

I wish we could drop objects over the edge, eg off buildings, down wells.

With rangers you can shoot arrows into the adjacent room using shoot east near or something similar.  Unfortunately watch doesn't pick up the messages of the item falling.

I mean , drop things. My rinther tried to drop some gear down a hole once. I ended up arranging it as being snagged on a brick.

[Rokal]

I wish we could drop objects over the edge, eg off buildings, down wells.

With rangers you can shoot arrows into the adjacent room using shoot east near or something similar.  Unfortunately watch doesn't pick up the messages of the item falling.

I mean , drop things. My rinther tried to drop some gear down a hole once. I ended up arranging it as being snagged on a brick.

It might be clumsy, but maybe you can hold then throw the object? i dont know of throw prevents you from throwing just anything.

[Kyviantre]

I've tried to throw a rope down to a buddy who was failing climb checks (no fall room, one room in between the one I was in and the ground where the buddy was).  Tried holding and throwing, no dice, and 'drop' obviously didn't work either.  Be a nice addition.  Saves me climbing all the way down, handing over the rope, and climbing back up when supposedly I've tied it off at the top and was rapunzel-ing it down!  Rather ruins the point of rapunzel-ing if I have to go hand the other end over...makes it all a little 'special'

[Seeker]

It now seems impossible to "lead" a hitched mount up any climb-check room.  Even if the beast has climbing.   

[Delirium]

It now seems impossible to "lead" a hitched mount up any climb-check room.  Even if the beast has climbing.   

Yeah. I've bugged this.

[Riev]

New MMH focus: Breed enough beetles to fill all the holes in the Known. Charge people to traverse the BeetleBridge.

[Seeker]

There is (or was) a bug with flee and the Climb changes.

If you fled from combat from a non-climbcheck room into an adjacent room that was a climbcheck room, you would automagically fall.   In a pit, over the edge of a cliff.  Didn't matter how good your climb was or why you ended up in that room.

It would give you the standard "you let go, jerk"  "Hahahahaha!"  "Nice move, dumbass" kind of message and down you'd go.

This would really suck when you would flee and your character would randonly get sent going in the Up direction, like if you were at the base of a mesa or something.   Up you'd flee, then you would automatically fall on your ass, take falling damage, be flat on your back and be right back in the same room with the aggro creature you just tried to hauled ass from.

So... um... the last climb fix help with this?  Pleeease?  I don't want to test it anymore.  Ever.


Seeker

[Inks]

I think you only flee up unless you choose it or it is the only way out now, Seeker.

[Riev]

I think you only flee up unless you choose it or it is the only way out now, Seeker.

I believe he means if, perhaps, you are fighting a scrab near the shield wall, and need to flee. Without a good flee skill, you might flee to the climb room which, because running/flee/? doesn't give you a climb check, you just fall. Or at least, that is what is described.

[Seeker]

I think you only flee up unless you choose it or it is the only way out now, Seeker.

I believe he means if, perhaps, you are fighting a scrab near the shield wall, and need to flee. Without a good flee skill, you might flee to the climb room which, because running/flee/? doesn't give you a climb check, you just fall. Or at least, that is what is described.

Nope - meant what I typed.  You guys are silly.  Do the field research before discounting your buddy's sincere claims as bogus.  Pfffft.

Riev is right in what he is describing:  if you do flee to the edge of the Shield Wall, you will tumble, regardless of your skill.  The same for any climbcheck room that you flee into.  You will be getting the "You let go.  Bad Move." message and you are going to be falling.

I also meant that if you type "flee" when engaged in combat (in at least some locations), there is a random chance that you will flee in the Up direction if it is available as a climbable exit.  Then, in the room above the one you were fighting in, after I assume sprinting up the side of the wall, you will automatically get the "You let go.  Bad Move" message and then tumble down a few moments later to take damage and be prone or possibly unconscious in the room you just fled from.  This is not supposition.  This is experience.  And then disbelieving retested experiences.

For what its worth, your NPC opponent will be completely freaked out and flee the room when you tumble back into it of the sky.  But, if they are aggro, they will come back slavering.  Sometimes before you can stand back up, if you are conscious.

Hence, I think it is probably a bug and why I was asking about it.

[Inks]

You always fall if you climb while mounted, after changing rooms.

[solera]

My PC with decent climb fled randomly Up to escape a carru. Or was she bashed maybe...different?     (Then she got Rebooted back the other side of the Span while considering her options.)                                       

[555]

But, but...



That was a CLASSIC running joke. Now it's ruined.

[KankWhisperer]

Now just the sergeant dies. Of coarse no one is forcing you to stop following.

[555]

Now just the sergeant dies. Of coarse no one is forcing you to stop following.

The wild-eyed, mangy breed shouts, in southern-accented sirihish, before charging northwards also, "FOR THE SARGE!"

[KankWhisperer]

If I play a half-giant I'm jumping with the sarge ever time.

[BadSkeelz]

Now just the sergeant dies. Of coarse no one is forcing you to stop following.

Can we change guard so that if the Sergeant walks off the cliff and you're guarding them, you can try to "Push yourself in front of the tall, muscular man" and fall in his place?

[whitt]

If I play a half-giant I'm jumping with the sarge ever time.

And wishing up to land on them?

[Jihelu]

Now just the sergeant dies. Of coarse no one is forcing you to stop following.

Can we change guard so that if the Sergeant walks off the cliff and you're guarding them, you can try to "Push yourself in front of the tall, muscular man" and fall in his place?

Make master guards able to pull people back into rooms.

[555]

I'd say you could type "guard n" if you were quick enough, but then you'd just nod and watch them pass as they plummet to a near certain demise.

[Bast]

Aww no more lemurs over the cliff? 

[Saellyn]

@bast:

nosave climbfollow

Now you can WILLINGLY leap to your doom!

[nauta]

Aww no more lemurs over the cliff?  

Hehe, it's lemmings, and that's totally a Disney lie!  #lemmingsNOsuicide #lemmingsfalseflag

http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/lemmings.asp

(Although someone doing the same film with the narrator dubbed out and Arm lore dubbed in... that'd be funny.)