50 Shades of Hate

[whitt]

how do people see racism against half-giants and dwarves playing out? Is it at a realistic level? What should that level be?

I'm already on record as saying that, short of "human-only" clans, dwarves are viewed as preferable to humans, and half-giants are at the top of the "most desired" list.  I can't say I have ever seen a case of race-based discrimination against either of these races outside of a role that was geard strictly toward humans (eg Oash/AoD/Nobility).  The AoD and Nobles make quick exceptions for half-giants too.  The coded ability of half-giants and OOC expectation that the player behind the half-giant has proven competent enough to earn that role probably play a not small amount into that treatment.  I'm quite sure there aren't many AoD sergeants that would bat an eye (OOCly) at recruiting dwarves either, but they aren't allowed.

As an example - How many Templars do you see roll out with their trusted human bodyguard?  And how many are always protected by one or more half-giants?  Perhaps they have a better leash and/or superior half-giants, but just a point for discussion.

[nauta]

D-Man, easier said than done when you're the only PC in the whole tavern who expresses such disdain while the rest is bestest friends with said gemmed/breed/elf. And that happens more often than not.

Well, maybe the person in question is doing a good job of surrounding themselves with allies, then?

This is exactly the core of my agreement with Refugee's statement. Such people shouldn't have allies that easily.

How do you know how hard they worked for those allies?

I support Iiyola's position here.  In theory, most of the vNPC populace in a place like the Gaj should be echoing a loud "Yeah!" right behind the elf/breed/gemmed hater and shouting down even those hard won allies in sheer numbers if not with threats.  Obviously that can't be the case that the vNPCs are animated all the time nor do I think that everyone that bad mouths a pariah is always going to be an instant champion of the masses, but I do think it falls on the player of the pariah-role, when it makes sense, to bring that to life.

Agreed.  A lot of my time playing pariahs was spent encouraging people to hate me, by bringing that aspect of the virtual world to life.  Most people prefer to 'ignore' pariahs, which is so boring.  Presumably they are afraid that the pariah knows some PC assassin who will wreck their shit so it's easier to just sit and pretend to be afk.

I still think 'minorities' should be karma-required: anyone who is not an Allanaki human.

[Desertman]

Most of the VNPC population is made up of standard commoners. PC's are the guys who go out and roflstomp meks.

If those VNPCs want to step up....start steppin'....but most would sit quietly with their mouths shut, just like the other PC's who are afraid because they aren't strong enough to back their position either.

Granted, I agree, most of the VNPC population WOULD have that stance, and they are picking on elves, and breeds, and sneering at gemmers....just not the ones who are fucking badasses (be that through personal power or allies). They are doing those things to the other VNPC "undesirables" that are safer to sneer at.

[whitt]

I support Iiyola's position here.  In theory, most of the vNPC populace in a place like the Gaj should be echoing a loud "Yeah!" right behind the elf/breed/gemmed hater and shouting down even those hard won allies in sheer numbers if not with threats.  Obviously that can't be the case that the vNPCs are animated all the time nor do I think that everyone that bad mouths a pariah is always going to be an instant champion of the masses, but I do think it falls on the player of the pariah-role, when it makes sense, to bring that to life.

Whitt, this makes zero sense when dealing with a breed who has built up some real status.

EDIT: Nevermind, kneejerk response, we may be in agreement here. But if you're going to comment on this, please, expand more and explain. Do you think that same crowd would rally behind the mundane human if he was beating up an Oashi gemmed? I've, seen a PC harass an Oashi gemmed before, with horrific results... for the mundane human.

Oashi gemmed is a tough call that's an employee of a Noble house... I don't think I'd randomly go breaking a noble's toys.  The same would go for a breed that was actively supported by a GMH, like a member of Kurac's Fist, or especially (in the Gaj) a Byn breed... if the breed didn't ask for it.  Then all the shitcloaks would probably let the sharp/breed take their pounding and just make sure they didn't actually get killed, just dragged back to Bones, but I digress.

All of the above are big-time support.  That's a lot different then the unaffiliated breed/elf/gemmed that has two - three unaffiliated buddies at the bar just being loud.  They ain't bad.  They ain't nothing.  Hence, I'd put it on the player of the pariah to gauge when they should get their unwanted selves out before things turn ugly.

[Fujikoma]

Good point, Whitt, but what of minor merchant houses? Should they not also be exempt? Should we encourage this black and white play when newer players aren't familiar with clan identifiers or rank identifiers? Further, even indies can be seriously deadly, should we just ignore this foolishly?

[Beethoven]

I don't think anyone should be beating up ANY gemmed at the tavern, Oashi or no. Even if they're successful and the gemmed is getting their ass kicked by the mundane, it would likely still cause a lot of fear. Who knows when the gemmed might go nuts and lose control of their magick? Maybe they'll curse the whole room in anger, or maybe even inadvertently. Best to leave that volatile SOB alone.

[FantasyWriter]

I'm going to change the topic just a little... Don't worry, it's still hate-themed.

.....half-giants and dwarves are objectively better than their mundane human counterparts in combat, but no one seems to have this militant anti non-human attitude, even if that's also part of the gameworld's lore and prejudices.

We talk about more hate for elves and breeds, but how do people see racism against half-giants and dwarves playing out? Is it at a realistic level? What should that level be?

Let the Wookie win.

[Jihelu]

You tell me I should hate dwarves and Half giants.
But they are just so damn cute

[Fujikoma]

There is a key here, children, and this is that your hate must be all-encompasing, aslo you're a fool because you have no idea how hate works.

[Inks]

Feel free to hate any dwarf, mul or giant pcs as openly as you want.



I feel PC populations are very consistently matching the world lately, also. Kudos to you, Armers.