Accessibility of Gathering Spaces Outside Cities

[AdamBlue]

I sometimes wonder why there hasn't been a tent outpost outside the actual city proper. Like a sub-slum surrounding the city that is outside of the gates for people to sell and smoke spice that is exposed to the elements and generally lawless, full of banditry, crime, and generally unpleasant ordeals. Think the 'rinth except people actually have to pass through it to get into the city and it's not just a secluded part of the gameworld that being in is entirely a choice.

[Quell]

I sometimes wonder why there hasn't been a tent outpost outside the actual city proper. Like a sub-slum surrounding the city that is outside of the gates for people to sell and smoke spice that is exposed to the elements and generally lawless, full of banditry, crime, and generally unpleasant ordeals. Think the 'rinth except people actually have to pass through it to get into the city and it's not just a secluded part of the gameworld that being in is entirely a choice.

This seems like something an enterprizing PC might be able to get started with enough creativity. Wouldn't be this big, but...

[Is Friday]

Because anything that isn't codedly locked down will be stolen?

[Delirium]

Because anything that isn't codedly locked down will be stolen?

Yeah.

You can't get anything real like that going, whether a camp or a clan, without relatively safe storage space. It just won't happen.

[Eurynomos]

Because anything that isn't codedly locked down will be stolen?

I've seen recent evidence that points in the opposite direction. If a group of people make enough of a name for themselves and 'where they are staying', people tend to avoid/not steal their stuff for the most part. Which is interesting, and I was a bit surprised to see that, as well.

[Delirium]

Yeah, no, not the case.

Even in a well-established camp in the remotest of remotest areas, you'd get people trying to steal everything they could carry while they thought everyone was logged out.

[Desertman]

Because anything that isn't codedly locked down will be stolen?

I've seen recent evidence that points in the opposite direction. If a group of people make enough of a name for themselves and 'where they are staying', people tend to avoid/not steal their stuff for the most part. Which is interesting, and I was a bit surprised to see that, as well.

I've seen this happen first hand as well. We might even be thinking of the same group/place. I noticed several groups (including the people I was with) skip over taking a single thing because, "No need to take their stuff.".

Really I think it was just an OOC consideration on their behalf and I was glad to see it from the players.

Eventually however, they DID get all of their stuff taken/stolen....it just took a lot longer than I expected (RL months).

I think the issue here/above is, "You can't dependably plan to achieve anything long-term using this method.", and what is being talked about is a long-term thing. For the short-term however, I saw this work for RL months and was pleasantly surprised with how well it went.

[Fujikoma]

Yeah, Eury, but there's always that ONE guy, you know who I'm talking about. Then you've got to kick down doors and use them like a latrine for their insolence.

Also, I've heard the words "Have you seen my couch?" enough to make me a sad panda.

EDIT: Please, do not steal the couch. It is sofa king retarded.

[Delirium]

I ... *grits teeth* ... agree with Desertman.

[Ender]

Because anything that isn't codedly locked down will be stolen?

I've seen recent evidence that points in the opposite direction. If a group of people make enough of a name for themselves and 'where they are staying', people tend to avoid/not steal their stuff for the most part. Which is interesting, and I was a bit surprised to see that, as well.

Eh, the corollary I'd add is anything that is of perceived value.  I've played using areas like this twice, once in a crim-coded active area and once in the wilds.  Both times it's stressful to the point of not being worth it.  All it takes is one twink who just steals everything rolls up all your tents while you're off line.  And it's happened to me in BOTH situations.  And for inside a crim-code active area the stress knowing someone can waltz in while you're ONLINE and steal all your shit and there's nothing codedly you can do about it that won't bring crim coded hell down on your head is really crushing.


My point is not that this method doesn't/can't work, my point is it creates an almost unreasonable amount of OOC stress for the players who feel like they have no recourse but to play 24/7 to act as NPC guards for their own stuff.  Back in my wilds camp, I literally would have people who would WAIT for me to log off, or play during hours they knew I wasn't around to go and loot my stuff.  And that SUCKED.

[Is Friday]

Any time I've gone out of my way to trust people to have the same general vision or idea about what is "realistic" or "fair play" I have been let down. People just wanna win.

[Malken]

Any time I've gone out of my way to trust people to have the same general vision or idea about what is "realistic" or "fair play" I have been let down. People just wanna win.

It's almost as if you trusted humans to not act like humans.

[Mordiggian]

We do have an MMH system in place by which PCs can rent/purchase large buildings for the purposes of commerce... (and ultimately even become a coded clan, with some work and luck.)

[Ender]

We do have an MMH system in place by which PCs can rent/purchase large buildings for the purposes of commerce... (and ultimately even become a coded clan, with some work and luck.)

This only works if you're explicitly playing in Allanak and are pro Allanak.  I'm looking forward for a similar structure put in place for potential groups that fall outside of that designation.

[Malken]

We do have an MMH system in place by which PCs can rent/purchase large buildings for the purposes of commerce... (and ultimately even become a coded clan, with some work and luck.)

We know, but this has nothing to do with what they're talking about.

Again, it seems like Staff and players have two completely visions of the game and while Staff tries to convince players that their dreams can become reality with some work and luck a shitload of work, the remaining players just say fuck it and nothing happens.

[Delirium]

We do have an MMH system in place by which PCs can rent/purchase large buildings for the purposes of commerce... (and ultimately even become a coded clan, with some work and luck.)

Which is cool, but it's city based only (rather: Allanak only). That doesn't leave much room for tribes, raiders, rebels... or any form of real conflict or antagonist or non-city clan... to group up. While having everyone together in a city is great, you also need outside conflict and a way for that conflict to survive the immense bootstomp it will receive from players eager to pursue that conflict ... right now there is essentially nothing out there supporting antagonists, Armageddon has increasingly been giving antagonists the short straw and wondered why it's so hard to keep open, engaging conflict going in the game. The only viable way to stay alive for a while as an antag is to play a rogue mage or solo lone ranger archetype. Whcih gets old, fast. No one would group around you for any amount of time unless you are able to offer something, which usually boils down to a place to stay and store their things in relative safety.

[Narf]

We do have an MMH system in place by which PCs can rent/purchase large buildings for the purposes of commerce... (and ultimately even become a coded clan, with some work and luck.)

This only works if you're explicitly playing in Allanak and are pro Allanak.  I'm looking forward for a similar structure put in place for potential groups that fall outside of that designation.

My understanding is that some of these policies have been expanded to Red Storm. I know there's a warehouse in Red Storm anyways.

[Taven]

I think this could even have it's own thread, so it doesn't get buried in RAT.

There seem to be a couple of different concepts floating around:

• Ability to have semi-secure storage for new non-MMH PC initiatives (tents outside of Allanak desires)
• Ability to have semi-secure storage in wilds/outlying areas (for antagonist-types who are off in the wilds being scary)
• Expansion of MMH policies to allow for groups that aren't pro-Allanak to have success (or options)

[LauraMars]

I think this could even have it's own thread, so it doesn't get buried in RAT.

Good idea.

[Delirium]

One issue to also consider is how easily tents are destroyed, including by random, wandering aggro mobs.

[Narf]

I wonder if it might not be a solution to connect the availability of theft from certain areas to the online status of a PC. I mean we already need to be online to have things taken from our packs. You could go a step further and make certain areas only accessible when a connected PC is online. For instance having some rent/purchaseable tents in the bazaar, or in the Bailey of Luirs, or just outside of Allanak, or even out in the middle of nowhere that codedly close up when the renting PC logs off.

It sounds unfair to thieves, but honestly it's not much different than making your backpack untouchable when you log off. Particularly if the space available in the tent is pretty limited.

[Fujikoma]

Also, tents left up too long have certain code bugs. They're not coded to be permanent or semi-permanent structures. If you set up a tent city, expect oodles of trouble and weirdness.

#thanksmagickers

[Delirium]

I wonder if it might not be a solution to connect the availability of theft from certain areas to the online status of a PC. I mean we already need to be online to have things taken from our packs. You could go a step further and make certain areas only accessible when a connected PC is online. For instance having some rent/purchaseable tents in the bazaar, or in the Bailey of Luirs, or just outside of Allanak, or even out in the middle of nowhere that codedly close up when the renting PC logs off.

It sounds unfair to thieves, but honestly it's not much different than making your backpack untouchable when you log off. Particularly if the space available in the tent is pretty limited.

Unfortunately, that doesn't solve the problem of needing communal space for small groups to form up.

[Mordiggian]

We do have an MMH system in place by which PCs can rent/purchase large buildings for the purposes of commerce... (and ultimately even become a coded clan, with some work and luck.)

This only works if you're explicitly playing in Allanak and are pro Allanak.  I'm looking forward for a similar structure put in place for potential groups that fall outside of that designation.

We know, but this has nothing to do with what they're talking about.

Again, it seems like Staff and players have two completely visions of the game and while Staff tries to convince players that their dreams can become reality with some work and luck a shitload of work, the remaining players just say fuck it and nothing happens.

We need a whorehouse/gambling casino in Allanak.

I'm being reminded of why I don't like posting on the GDB. Have fun, friends.

[Narf]

I wonder if it might not be a solution to connect the availability of theft from certain areas to the online status of a PC. I mean we already need to be online to have things taken from our packs. You could go a step further and make certain areas only accessible when a connected PC is online. For instance having some rent/purchaseable tents in the bazaar, or in the Bailey of Luirs, or just outside of Allanak, or even out in the middle of nowhere that codedly close up when the renting PC logs off.

It sounds unfair to thieves, but honestly it's not much different than making your backpack untouchable when you log off. Particularly if the space available in the tent is pretty limited.

Unfortunately, that doesn't solve the problem of needing communal space for small groups to form up.

It could.

It can create a living space that's "out in the open." Put a few of these together and you have a communal gathering space. It's all about the location of the place.