How to play an asshole

[Harmless]

The real world is full of assholes, and Zalanthas is supposed to be harsh. In your travels through this dark/low fantasy world, you should be seeing assholes left and right.

However, does it feel that way? When your PC bumps into that cloaked figure in the bazaar, are they realistically a little concerned about these things:

Interaction A:
1.) Was that I knife I just felt?
2.) Did I just get stolen from?
3.) Shit, I hope I didn't piss them off for slowing them down.
4.) I had better apologize.. or get away.. or do something.

Conversely, in a world full of assholes, you might be PLAYING the asshole. How often has your PC had these thoughts after bumping into that mysterious cloaked stranger:

Interaction B:
1.) Wonder why they're hiding their face.
2.) He might be a smuggler... might be a chance to score a few rolls.
3.) Maybe he's hiding from someone... someone who might pay for a kill.
4.) I better get a good look at this fucker.


However, let's be honest here: how many times has this been the RPed reality?

Interaction C:
1.) Oh, good! someone I might be able to sell my crafts to.
2.) Looks like a hunter, I bet I could buy materials from this person.
3.) How interesting, they look like they come from Red Storm. Maybe we should become partners.
4.) I'm sure I could convince them to greet me and lower their hood with a smile and a friendly greeting.

Now, I'm not saying that niceness and politeness shouldn't exist in Zalanthas, but should it be pervasive? Should the norm of interactions be more from examples A and B than example C? What is the balance of pleasant and unpleasant interactions in game and where should that ratio be to feel like Zalanthas?

[musashi]

I don't know about being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole.

But I think most people in Zalanthas regard each other with a kind of callous indifference at the best of times.

[Harmless]

If I were living in 116 degree heat at all times, couldn't ever bathe, had to kill and risk my life to earn a basic living, and knew that there were hundreds of people who had it so easy they could lay back and be cleaned from head to toe, I think I would relish every opportunity to inflict suffering on another person (safely) that I could get.

I know that some of my past PCs who were assassins with multiple PKs would absolutely relish every clean opportunity to slit a throat. Would you call that being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole, or just reacting to a life of constant pain, suffering, struggle, and competition?

[musashi]

I think if you, used to the comforts of 21st century life ... had to suddenly live in their circumstance you'd probably be like you describe for ... a little while. Till your brain readjusted and your new environment became the norm.

Military training does an amazing job of introducing you to just how much your brain can adapt to.

[Narf]

Slightly tangential to the Original Post, but entirely on topic for the title of the thread:

I've always been of the opinion that playing a good asshole is a work of interactive brilliance. The trick is to play someone that is onerous as all get out in the world of the game, but is a great deal of fun to look in on from an outsider's perspective (which is more or less what we're all doing when we play characters).

If you're funny and an asshole, people will laugh even if their characters don't. If you're a witty asshole, people will appreciate it. If you're Jane Cob, people will enjoy seeing you periodically get your comeuppance/get outwitted even if it doesn't happen every time.

If you're just playing an asshole with no other interesting traits I imagine you'll spend a lot of time being ignored or avoided.

[Harmless]

I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of being an asshole, but I wanted to welcome people's opinions about how assholery fits into the game and how they play it. My OP is about my opinion of how frequently we see assholes RPed and how assholes might be RPed, but I welcome differences of opinion in where the balance "should be" and why it should be where that is. Thanks for your reply musashi.

[musashi]

I think when you're going to play an asshole, you want to follow Narf's advice.

That goes for any antagonist really. You need to be able to entertain the people you're in conflict with, otherwise people feel like they're just getting grief'ed.

[Alesan]

I think when you're going to play an asshole, you want to follow Narf's advice.

That goes for any antagonist really. You need to be able to entertain the people you're in conflict with, otherwise people feel like they're just getting grief'ed.

[RogueGunslinger]

I love Narf's post.

One thing I've found out while trying to play assholes, is that humor goes a long way. If you're unpredictable, or dangerous, you will make enemies.

[James de Monet]

Are we differentiating between "asshole" and "villain"?

I think the best villains give you both the reason and the time to be afraid.

Assholes, well, I think I like it better when they wear the asshole part on their sleeve.  If they're silent about it, you can't tell if it's the player or the character that's being an asshole.

[Patuk]

Zalanthans are probably less inclined to be very trustful of one another, to be altruistic or generally helpful towards the plight of others, or find the suffering of other people some kind of great tragedy to reduce them to tears.

I do think they'd be more polite than people in real life might be, though. In a world where everyone wears the jaws and teeth of goddamn dinosaurs on their belts in case some bastard tries to shank them, thinking twice before being obnoxious is probably a good thing to do.

[Desertman]

You are living in a world where at BEST the authorities are corrupt most of the time.

The only law is the law of who can stab who first and hardest for most situations.

If it sometimes feels like people are overly nice or polite to each other, it is likely because they are.

Have you ever been in the grocery store and saw some 118lb woman screaming at the top of her lungs at some 240lb man because he somehow has angered her?

You know why she does that? Because society protects her from the laws of nature. The law that says if you make the wrong person angry, or the wrong group of people angry, you face at least physical harm and at worst death.

In Zalanthas, the only societal law is a corrupt system that may or may not care about you and if they do they may not be on your side even if you are morally right.

In Zalanthas, most people (players) are very keen on the concept of not making enemies for no reason at all. Why would you? Society isn't going to protect you. You may very well be pissing off a very dangerous person or someone who knows very dangerous people and in Zalanthas they CAN and WILL kill you.

Zalanthas isn't the real world. You are working under different rules. You are working under the rules of who's the strongest with the weaker in that justice system usually being the one that dies.

If it feels like you are seeing people who are being overly nice to each other at times....it is because they care about breathing. You never know who you are screwing with. You would have to be stupid (which happens often) or suicidal/crazy (happens just as often) to randomly try and make enemies for no reason with people over simple slights that could be avoided by at least feigning basic courtesy.

[Desertman]

^

With that being said I have played some assholes who just didn't care about making people angry and it WAS fun every time....but I admit to make that role work each of them had to be somewhat nuts to explain why they would do that.

[Fujikoma]

Keep the asshole on the inside,  because as has been said, you never know just who you're fucking with until it's too late.

[whitt]

Following along with the advice already given,  here are some components to playing an asshole in an social-rpg environment.

1) Keep the asshole-ness IC.  Be aware that there is a player behind the avatar that you're being an asshole to.  It may be that they are having a hard time separating that your avatar is an asshole, but you are not.  Take some pauses in your assholery to watch how the other avatar is reacting.  If the player behind the target is shutting down, wrap up and move on.  Your effort is likely wasted.

2) Be an equal opportunity asshole. Unless you're specifically targeting one group intentionally, spread the love.  Assholes are generally more than happy to jump right down the throat of those that come to the defense of their target.  Likewise they try to get other folks around to agree with their assholery.  Anyone who doesn't agree is obviously, passively, supporting their target and is due some love too.

3) Make sure to be aware of your social standing.  Assholes are only really assholes when they think they're on top and have the advantage.  They may grump, grouse, or snipe when they're close to the edge to see if they can build support, but the true mark of an asshole is how cowardly and quiet they are when they are at a disadvantage.  How many times have you heard "Oh!  Not so tough now, are you?"  You should expect to hear that.  You should work to find yourself in situation where your victims have the opportunity to say it.  You should slink away and then just as soon as the worm turns?  You should be right back to screaming obscenities in their face all over again.

4) Have real support to back you up.  An asshole that can't bring some force to bear will quickly become a dead asshole.  For some, vNPC support is enough.  In most cases?  You need some certified badassery behind you because there's always someone that thinks they are a bigger asshole.  You need to be able to prove them wrong.  And then rub that in the faces of your targets too.

5) Don't be an asshole to everybody.  Everybody may agree that your avatar is an asshole, but that doesn't mean they all want you gone.  If they do?  You'll be out of interactions and retired or dead in days.  Having somewhere to go hang, chat, drink, and train helps you as a player re-up your batteries until its time to be an asshole again.

6) If the other player is engaged?  Don't take your foot off the IC peddle.  This may be the interaction they've been dying for.  Keep #1 in mind, but grind your opponents into the dirt if they're up for it.  That builds story that they, you, and everyone around can grow around.

7) Realize that your avatar, like all the rest, will eventually lose.  Be prepared for that and revel in the fact that you made that many other players and characters care enough to put their own time into taking you out.  Make it worth it for everyone.  Then, play something else for awhile.  If you're constantly playing assholes, well... maybe you're not playing and you could easily lose track of the rest of the rules.

[SuchDragonWow]

It is a nice reminder that we're not just here to portray realistic, living breathing people in a harsh fantasy world, but there is, indeed, a meta to consider of entertaining one another.  It's easy to forget that in the spirit and pursuit of truth in action.

[Fujikoma]

Whole-heartedly agree with everything you said, Whitt. I think it's a good idea to remind people that even the nicest folks are an asshole, as far as someone else is concerned. Being selective with your assholery makes you on the whole a better asshole, if being an asshole is an OOC motivation, and not an IC consideration, then chances are you pounce on every opportunity to be an asshole. One needn't TRY to be an asshole, one needs only to be to be an asshole. I like to think that when people think of my character, they think: "Wow, that's the most helpful, funniest asshole I've stumbled across in a while.". Zalanthans are simply assholes, no matter how you look at it. Being a good asshole is an art, there is no simple formula.

[Bast]

Be realistic with your reasons for being ass. I seriously have a hate for the cartoon villains that pop up. Why is this guy such a jackass to everyone? Just because evil and chaos? I really can't stand people trying to play 'bad guys' with no real thought or depth as to why their pc is behaving the way they do. I get the game needs villians..and I have over the years played around some pc villains I absolutely loved to hate. In some cases hesitated killing said villains in some circumstances because I enjoyed having them as rivals so much but I just can not stand players who are just playing a evil guy to be evil. I tend to just stop rping with them and leave the scene asap.

[Bast]

Also what Whitt said..don't be an asshole to everyone. Everyone no matter where you sit on the Social Hierarchy will at times need PC's allies. If you piss all everyone you will quickly find yourself very bored and unable to get anything done. This extra the case I feel with PC nobles. I have watched a ton Asshole Nobles crash burn and store because they burned all their bridges over the years.

[CodeMaster]

I liked Begbie in Trainspotting.

[edit: the book, I mean.  He's flatter in the movie, but still hilarious.]

[Dresan]

Also what Whitt said..don't be an asshole to everyone. Everyone no matter where you sit on the Social Hierarchy will at times need PC's allies. If you piss all everyone you will quickly find yourself very bored and unable to get anything done. This extra the case I feel with PC nobles. I have watched a ton Asshole Nobles crash burn and store because they burned all their bridges over the years.

QFT

Years from now I'll still remember the sdesc, name and personality of the noble was ambitious and open enough to have my character working for them as an informant.

[musashi]

Also what Whitt said..don't be an asshole to everyone. Everyone no matter where you sit on the Social Hierarchy will at times need PC's allies. If you piss all everyone you will quickly find yourself very bored and unable to get anything done. This extra the case I feel with PC nobles. I have watched a ton Asshole Nobles crash burn and store because they burned all their bridges over the years.

QFT

Years from now I'll still remember the sdesc, name and personality of the noble was ambitious and open enough to have my character working for them as an informant.

I'll go ahead and QFT this one again.

The best nobles and templar I've seen in game have been the ones who knew they were better than everyone else, so they didn't have to constantly remind everyone else about it all the time by being a dick for no reason.

I adopted that model when I played my own, and it seemed like other characters liked it. I got some good kudos about it.

[manonfire]

The best nobles and templar I've seen in game have been the ones who knew they were better than everyone else, so they didn't have to constantly remind everyone else about it all the time by being a dick for no reason.

Word.

Stressing social rank at the expense of playing an interesting, engaging character (actually suffered through this bullshit not too long ago IG) is the best way to have my character abruptly change their mind about joining your organization.

[MeTekillot]

The best way to remember you're better than everyone else is to be better than everyone else.

[musashi]

The best way to remember you're better than everyone else is to be better than everyone else.

+1

[Inks]

Throw dagger figure west.

I have usually found pcs to be selfish and rp realistic overall. Just be aware that you may not know a pc's motivation for evil or good acts. I don't mind players playing villains. They exist in real life.

"Tell me. After my head has been chopped off, will I still be able to hear, at least for a moment, the sound of my own blood gushing from the stump of my neck? That would be a pleasure to end all pleasures."

Peter Kurten, AKA "The Vampire of Dusseldorf," killed somewhere between 9 and 60 adults and children.

[Dresan]

Perhaps my definition of asshole is different but...

You can be horrendously evil without having to also be an annoying obnoxious douche bag (aka, an asshole)

[Fujikoma]

And you can be an asshole without being tremendously evil. The worst assholes are good aligned. In a world filled with evil, one neutral-good asshole soon becomes the biggest asshole in the known world.

[Inks]

Valid. Yeah I was responding to someone earlier who hates evil pcs.

[MeTekillot]

I think the problem with a lot of people who try to play "good" PCs is that they just end up coming across as self-righteous. And not like in an entertaining, narcissistic way, but in an annoying, narcissistic way.

[Inks]

Add paladin class so it is easy to guild sniff white knighters.

[Fujikoma]

Add paladin class so it is easy to guild sniff white knighters.

Haven't seen a Dragonthrall about, myself. I would assume since everything in Zalanthas is an asshole, draining the life out of it in order to zap things to death is pretty lawful good.

[ohrather]

4.) I'm sure I could convince them to greet me and lower their hood with a smile and a friendly greeting.

[Refugee]

I think the big secret to playing an asshole successfully is to give the players you're around something to RP with.  It needs to make sense, and be consistent in some way, so it doesn't just feel like you, the player, is out to ruin everyone else's fun for your own entertainment.

[Majikal]

Play a racist, realize you're the minority when multiple death threats are thrown at you from humans and elves in the same room as the preggo breed you insulted.
10/10 would play asshole again

#goodguyarmageddon

[roughneck]

The trick to playing an asshole is to have the balls to keep at it. People will try to kill you for what you say and what you do, but don't stop, because you're an asshole. I think people don't play assholes very often because it's easier to stay alive when you're nice to people.

[Majikal]

The trick to playing an asshole is remembering a hefty portion of the players around you are the exception to the documentation about prejudices. My homosexual male pc's will get insulted and demeaned for being 'ladylike', my half-elf hating House member will get assassinated by a tribe-less elf who fell in love with the before-mentioned half-elf, humans will regularly try to mate my elves, my mage will be outcast from a group that decides to randomly befriend a defiler that showed up flashing some cool spells when they share an opinion of unease at the situation. I've been slammed by elves in the rinth for not trusting another elf who was proud to be tribe less. All of my pc's tend to be an asshole in one way or another, adhering to the cultural cliche's of prejudice and distrust. The real assholes though are the players who don't adhere to documentation. I roll with the punches and keep on keepin on. I'll continue to play my pc's in that fashion and continue attempting to be the change, it's daunting sometimes though when you see such harsh resistance in the face of cultural norms.

[Fujikoma]

I must be doing something right. Seems like half the playerbase is trying to kill my characters at any given time.

[Bast]

The best nobles and templar I've seen in game have been the ones who knew they were better than everyone else, so they didn't have to constantly remind everyone else about it all the time by being a dick for no reason.

Word.

Stressing social rank at the expense of playing an interesting, engaging character (actually suffered through this bullshit not too long ago IG) is the best way to have my character abruptly change their mind about joining your organization.

Here here! Running around being a asshat just makes you look like some spoiled brat on power trip that needs to prove to everyone how powerful they are by pissing all over everyone just 'because'. It doesn't inspire 'fear' or 'respect' it just makes you annoying to be around. All my favorite 'bad' guy nobles pulled it off without acting like byners and thugs.

[SuchDragonWow]

You know, I bet Pablo Eacobar was the same way during meetings with his lieutenants.  "Don't be mean to people,  They already understand my power, there's no need to remind them."  I mean, that's why so many people loved him. Those wily damn lieutenants, though!

[RogueGunslinger]

I don't care how your character acts in-game. Seems like there is some discouragement of leaders in this thread. Assholes in real life are not just assholes when it's convenient for story. The whole purpose of an asshole is to be disruptive and unliked.

So yeah, play a realistic character, and try to be inclusive with your roleplay for interactions sake. But don't hold back just becuase you think people might get upset. Upsetting people is kind of the point of being an asshole, right? Not everyone is going to find it enjoyable or humorous, probably because they're taking IC things WAY too personally.

[Bast]

I'm not saying don't be a asshole. I am saying play a realistic character that fits your place in social hierarchy. Have actually goals and reasons behind why your doing what your doing. Don't be a cartoon villain. 

[Desertman]

It's a world where people throw fireballs from their hands. Realism isn't an argument for anything.

If you are playing an asshole that is ruining the fun of others you are doing it wrong.

If you are playing an asshole that is creating fun for others you are doing it right.

It's a game. That is the only measurement for right/wrong in this scenario.

[Fujikoma]

And just WHY is that man with the silly moustache tying that woman to the train tracks? Dooooon't have a clue.

[CodeMaster]

Just in case any assholes are feeling called out as a "cartoon villain", I'll just pipe up and say that I have never encountered anyone in this game I'd give that title to.

[RogueGunslinger]

It's a world where people throw fireballs from their hands. Realism isn't an argument for anything.

If you are playing an asshole that is ruining the fun of others you are doing it wrong.

If you are playing an asshole that is creating fun for others you are doing it right.

It's a game. That is the only measurement for right/wrong in this scenario.

Eh, I'd argue there is no right and wrong if you're not breaking the rules. You could just be creating fun for yourself and not ruin it for others. Also some people get way upset at what happens to their character. If their character is having a bad time, so are they. To them it doesn't matter if its fun for you an others, they're having a bad time because you're playing an asshole. Is that ruining their fun? Maybe. But it's not all about them.

That said, as a player I find myself having the most fun when I know others are around me. But not everyone is like that. Some people log in to have fun and don't want to sacrifice it at the expense of others.

[SuchDragonWow]

Just in case any assholes are feeling called out as a "cartoon villain", I'll just pipe up and say that I have never encountered anyone in this game I'd give that title to.

I wonder why it keeps getting parroted in the thread, then.  What I find cartoonish, instead, is characters having to lay out their motivations for others so it can be understood that it's "realistic".

Also some people get way upset at what happens to their character. If their character is having a bad time, so are they.

By observation, I've noticed that the great majority of complaints on the GDB about the roleplay of others has to do with some wrong done to their character, and the times it's been so obvious what they're referencing that happened IG, I wonder how it hasn't been moderated.

[Nergal]

As an aside, we do moderate "vaguebooking" when we catch on to it. Often this requires someone to report it though, since no one moderator or staff member reads everything.

Carry on!

[MeTekillot]

If you're playing a villain and you murder someone and they start making vaguely insulting remarks on the GDB, you're doing it right.

[roughneck]

If you're playing a villain and you murder someone and they start making vaguely insulting remarks on the GDB, you're doing it right.

And player complaints.

[Refugee]

Just in case any assholes are feeling called out as a "cartoon villain", I'll just pipe up and say that I have never encountered anyone in this game I'd give that title to.

And sometimes characters you might think of that way turn out to have very deep, well thought-out personalities you just never knew about because you weren't around them when they showed.

[Dakota]

If you want to play like an asshole...

-Know the stereotypes that exist in the game.

-Play them up.

-Play like you've got nothing to lose (don't play to live long... that just sucks anyway and breeds shit RP).

-Have a strong concept behind your assholeness (that's a word and this is the most important thing).

-Your concept should not be vague that seeps out after a decade of RP.

-Assholeness shouldn't come from the role or position or rank. It needs be -character- based. Not reactive to anything but something internal. Assholes are assholes for a reason. They were an asshole before they got the power and are a more visible asshole -when- they have the power.

-If you play an asshole always be ready to see a mantis head but know you made the game better for everyone.

I know what I'm talking about.

/that is all.

EDIT: If you want to play an asshole and have an easy step into it... Play a c-elf b/c they took "Asshole" and made it into a secret primary class. But again... strong concept goes a loooong way. This isn't easy mode though b/c c-elfs are kinda gimped in a billion ways but are still the best class bc c-elfs (and elves in general) win.

[Barzalene]

If you are playing an asshole that is ruining the fun of others you are doing it wrong.

If you are playing an asshole that is creating fun for others you are doing it right.

The problem there is you can't make everyone happy. People should jus do the best they can. If your pc is an asshole, but you're not a griefer it should be fine.

[Delirium]

What I've noticed:

If you're an asshole in a way that directly supports the game documentation stereotypes and makes things interesting, people will love to hate you.

If you're an asshole in a psuedo-OOC way or in a way that's inappropriate to game documentation, people will hate to hate you.

Either way, you're still going to run into a LOT of pushback, because a lot of people playing this game haven't learned to handle conflict very well.

[Desertman]

I think one issue people have is they equate "kill other PC's" with "being a good bad guy".

I've officially killed more people with my good guys than my bad guys. Easily.

I don't kill a lot of people in general though. I find it usually adds very little to the game. If I am killing someone I want a crowd there to witness it, a lover there to mourn it, or better yet...I want to hire someone else to do it for me.

I think I can count the number of people my best played villains have ever killed combined on a single hand, and one of them literally forced me to do it knowing they would die.

My point is, if you are going to play an asshole/a villain, don't get caught up in "killing people makes me the super awesome bad guy". It doesn't. It can if it's done the right way, but usually, it just makes you a griefing douche. (Especially if you are  a high-karma laying waste to mundanes. It is somewhat more interesting and forgivable if you do it with a zero karma class because you are far more obtainable in terms of people coming after you and thus you really are sort of creating a plot and fun for heroes. If you are a high-karma shithill though that you know it would take ten people to capture you or they can't ever go to where you are to capture you anyways...you are just griefing.)

[Inks]

I have played some pcs who some people would consider bad. But in their own mind and some friends they have always thought they were doing the right thing.

I find many people don't take getting killed very well, in fact personally, and read into it whatever they want, from the pks I have seen they are almost always for IC reasons. I feel overall we have a very mature player base.

[KankWhisperer]

I'm a natural.

[Chettaman]

I love playing asshole characters that, at the same time, allow you into their life.
That's the secret to role playing an asshole.

if you're going to be an asshole, don't push everyone away. Reel them in. Make them want to be missjudged, abused, spoken down at. Give them a reason to want to be near your jerk ass. Giving them no choice is nearly the same, but as soon as they find a way out... they're gone for good.

If you're a merchant. You don't have to smile all the time. You have what the hell /they/ want. Either buy something or get out!