RP Strategy Session - D-Elves the Problem Children

[musashi]

One part of your request puzzled me, which is that you requested to know what part of the docs I disagreed with.

When you wrote:

The newer tribal cultural guidelines seem more like restrictions than they do as stimulating source material.  In at least one case, I feel that the newer material serves only to enforce the more stereotypical aspects of tribal role-play rather than providing a framework for constructing living, breathing three-dimensional dynamic characters.

I took that to mean there were parts of the docs you disagreed with. Maybe I misunderstood.

I took a survey a couple of years ago and only found four places, in all of the docs, where I substantially "disagreed" with what was written.

I wanna take an Armageddon docs survey 
I have also found some typos or contradictions in the docs for the tribe I played in, but I brought them to staff's attention and Nyr fixed corrected and clarified. I don't think those things are in the docs by design, they are almost always oversights you can bring to the staff's attention to get fixed.

Thanks for posting, by the way.  Unless you object I'll go point for point with you on parts of what you're written, probably tomorrow.

Sure, I'll wait till you're finished to reply. Seemed like you were typing something up while I was writing this.

[BadSkeelz]

I have no problem with tribal characters in the tablelands keeping non-tribal characters out. I don't think this is against the documentation.
The way I see it, your land is your resource, and having other people come into your land to hunt and forage there would be a big issue for two reasons.
One: Cities have huge appetites and if they take too much from the land your people will be going hungry.
Two: It destroys your economic trading power to allow other people to come into your land and harvest your resources for free instead of buying them from you.

I enjoy the idea that if you go mucking around in the backyard of the wild tribes you are taking your life into your hands.

Thank you for taking the time to outline your reasoning.  As far as I can tell, your reasoning passes several important barriers for validity, for example it's logical, internally consistent and tactically sound.

I disagree with you because I think that your response, which your saying should typify the desert elf view of the table lands, should rather typify the desert human view of the table lands.  Why?

In my interpretation of elves, elves are too thrill-seeking (in terms of their desire to steal) to practice the level of resource conservancy, intra-tribal solidarity and strategic resource defense that yes, probably should typify the human tribes for the reasons that you've outlined above.  I'll concede that there's nothing in the docs to substantiate this claim.  Simply, I tend to think of elves as being largely similar to real life Gypsies. 

This has not been my experience at all. The last desert elf character I had began play at age 70-something and despite being 0 days played he was treated by all the other tribal PC's with care and respect in deference to his years.

I also disagree with you in the sense that I am interested in RP'ing with you simply because we're in the same tribe. I rolled up a tribal to be part of a group, and even if our characters dislike one another, that tension that creates while still being forced to cling to each other for protection and survival is an interesting form of interaction for me. Some of the most entertaining moments of my tribal role play came from these inner tribe conflicts.

I thank you for your honesty however I think a key point is that I don't consent to this.  It has long been held as controversial, for reasons that have never been outlined, in this game that players who don't get along with each other can simply avoid each other.
Do I dislike you?  No.  I'll concede that I don't know you super well but based on your posts you certainly seem like the guy whom I'd get along with in real life, even the the sort of person I'd enjoy playing Armageddon alongside.  I do believe at present that our visions of what should be happening inside of an desert elven clan are prohibitive of us reasonably role-playing together inside of one. 

I view this as very appropriate in the context of tribal elves vs. non-elves. It reminds me of the Armed Forces. When I was in the Marines, I would shit talk the Army, Navy, and Air Force. If we were all at a bar a fight just might break out. However, the moment a civilian tries to get involved, all of us would band together against the civilian because quite frankly ... they aren't part of the club. Yes we fight internally, but that's our business.

Totally LOL'd at this one.  I grew up near a military base.  I totally know what you're talking about.  I can agree that most of the marines that I hung out with were all cool individually, but when you put more than two of them in a room together they did magically stop being my friend.  LOL, crazy marines!

I think this aspect of the Tablelands is better expressed through the human tribes.  Human politics are not of interest, in my interpretation of the docs, to desert elves.  Desert elves would rather be stealing.  See above.  Several other players have alluded to the possibility that the human tribals should probably be more bad-assed.

Please feel free to counterpoint any of the above.  I'm learning more about the way that some of you guys play desert elves. 

Old Testament Armageddon

[Majikal]

Those docs are like two decades old.. not too long after the days when Gith ran Red Storm Village, Mantis chilled in Tuluk. Yeesh.  

[musashi]

In my interpretation of elves, elves are too thrill-seeking (in terms of their desire to steal) to practice the level of resource conservancy, intra-tribal solidarity and strategic resource defense that yes, probably should typify the human tribes for the reasons that you've outlined above.  I'll concede that there's nothing in the docs to substantiate this claim.  Simply, I tend to think of elves as being largely similar to real life Gypsies.

I take my reasoning from this documentation:

... Attacking outsiders is generally only done in self-defense or by necessity, otherwise it is a task taken upon with much discretion.

For the same reason, most desert elves would be wary of over-hunting. Not for ecological reasons, but because if they share the territory with any other tribes, which they probably do, then consuming more than their fair share of resources could create a lot of hostility and territory wars.

The way I reason it: If my desert elf sees another tribal human resource gathering in the 'Pah, I'm going to leave them alone because I don't want to provoke the ire of other tribes and cause trouble for my own.

But if my desert elf sees a city dweller out doing the same thing, I'm going to feel empowered to challenge them because they're the outsider. They are taking resources out of the 'Pah and if enough of them do this and there isn't enough food to go around for all the tribals living there, it could create a lot of hostility and territory wars over resources. Wars that these city dwelling rangers won't care or be involved in. In this, I feel I have all the justification I need to be out raged at non tribal hunters rolling through my tribe's backyard.

I think that this reasoning can seem nonsensical to players on the receiving end of the arrow. They probably think to themselves: Really?! I just got griefed over a durrit hide!?!?! There'll be another durrit in the same spot in like 15 minutes!!! GRAWH!!!

But I encourage everyone to remember that just because the game's code will spawn foragable goods and mobs to skin ad infinitum, in role play, the resources are supposed to be finite.

I thank you for your honesty however I think a key point is that I don't consent to this.  It has long been held as controversial, for reasons that have never been outlined, in this game that players who don't get along with each other can simply avoid each other.

By all means, if you aren't enjoying playing with someone else you're free to avoid them. We play the game for enjoyment purposes. I'll quickly outline the story that my character was a part of.

I was playing a tribal shaman, the other person was playing a tribal ranger. We did not get along. The PC's in the clan were split into two cliques, I was in one group and she was in the other. Her clique decided that for the good of the tribe they needed to murder a merchant who was part of my clique and they tried to do so while they were supposed to be protecting said merchant on a run into one of the cities. They failed. The merchant got away and told me. I told the clan's head shaman NPC, he told me to find the traitors and tear our their souls and make them invent a new, more serious word for suffering. Then the clan's chief NPC intervened and the whole tribe had a big pow wow at the camp fire where the would be murderers were judged, punished, and officially forgiven. That whole story arc was a big, entertaining deal that involved staff support, really cool role play, and lots of tension.

After it was over, the next chapter of that saga began. My character HATED the ranger even after she was forgiven by the chief. Time went on. Other PC's came and went till she and I were now the old timers and the new group had no idea why we loathed each other so much. She would come sit down at the campfire and my shaman would literally spit at her, call her the shame of his blood, and get up and leave. We didn't do a lot of inter acting with one another directly in those days but our lingering feelings towards one another created a lot of RP opportunity for the new blood who would try to mend the wounds ... or pick a side ... or whatever.

Eventually, that ranger died defending a group of newer rangers from a batch of kyrl that attacked them on a hunt. I sent in player kudos outlining how much fun having that rivalry through the IG years had been, and in death, my shaman finally gave in and acknowledged that his old enemy had in fact earned her placed among their people. He led her funeral ritual and stood among her friends in solidarity to mourn her death.

To me, this was an amazing story, and it is what defined my desert elf as a person. I'm very grateful to the player of that ranger my shaman rivaled with, although our interactions were almost always antagonistic, she played a crucial role in my character's story and I'd like to think, mine in hers as well.

When I say good RP can come from tension just as easily as from friendships in game, that is what I'm thinking about.

Totally LOL'd at this one.  I grew up near a military base.  I totally know what you're talking about.  I can agree that most of the marines that I hung out with were all cool individually, but when you put more than two of them in a room together they did magically stop being my friend.  LOL, crazy marines!

I think this aspect of the Tablelands is better expressed through the human tribes.  Human politics are not of interest, in my interpretation of the docs, to desert elves.  Desert elves would rather be stealing.  See above.  Several other players have alluded to the possibility that the human tribals should probably be more bad-assed.

When I was a Marine, my loyalty in these situations followed different tiers.

Fellow Marines from my Unit > fellow Marines from a different unit > fellow Marines from out of town > the Navy > the Army > the Air Force > the Coast Guard > everyone else.

Who I was going to side with in the bar fight basically followed the above structure. Given the information contained in the elven roleplay help file, I figure that for my desert elf characters the chart probably looks something like:

My friends in my tribe > my clan mates > other elven tribes > other tribes in the 'pah I have to share territory with > other tribes in general vs city dwellers > people from the pits.

You seem to have said that you don't think politics of human tribals or human cities should matter to desert elves, but I think the docs directly contradict you in the passage I already quoted above. I think that elves do care to the extent that said politics affect the well being of their own tribe. That is to say, where Kurac does its hunting shouldn't bother the desert elves one bit until Kurac decides to do its hunting in their lands.

Hope this helps to clarify.

[musashi]

And, to briefly add (after that wall of text above):

Several other players have alluded to the possibility that the human tribals should probably be more bad-assed.

May I point out that before their stronghold was utterly destroyed, people did nothing but complain about how overpowered the gypsies were? I think that whenever any particular group gains power in the game world, people start to complain about it.

Having said that though, as I understand it IG events over the last few years have had strong deleterious consequences for a chunk of the coded, playable human tribes leaving them severely weakened while the playable desert elf tribes have not suffered similar hardships. Well, the RF's did ... but their hardship was so extreme you can't even play them anymore so I wasn't counting that.

I can see how this might lead to a situation where it feels like human tribals are getting shit on by elves from the perspective of anyone on the ground, and I think it would be a nice addition to the 'Pah to have a coded human tribe out there with comparable levels of power.

Also, as I understand it playable human tribes are far more nomadic than desert elf tribes are. All the playable human tribes' camps actually codedly relocate periodically to entirely different regions of the Known do they not? To the best of my knowledge no desert elf camp does this, and the elven role play documentation points out that desert elves are quite territorial and rarely leave their one region of the known, even if they might be quite semi-nomadic within it.

So when you say:

In my interpretation of elves, elves are too thrill-seeking (in terms of their desire to steal) to practice the level of resource conservancy, intra-tribal solidarity and strategic resource defense that yes, probably should typify the human tribes for the reasons that you've outlined above.  I'll concede that there's nothing in the docs to substantiate this claim.  Simply, I tend to think of elves as being largely similar to real life Gypsies.  

I want to point out that not only is there nothing in the docs to substantiate that ... there are things in the docs that directly contradict it.

[Jingo]

PCs can claim lots of things! Whether or not they can back those claims up against other players or the game world (the aforementioned other tribes)... Maybe? Maybe not!

PC's can do all sorts of things. Yeah we know that. But do they represent the political reality of the game world? Can you spit on a noble without consequence in the cities? If you kill an officer from the city states, shouldn't they be marching a unit of infantry to the the tribal encampment the very next day?

If someone is ignoring the game world (shooting arrows through a city gate) you should send a player complaint. If someone is being mean to you and telling you that you aren't allowed to do something, or perhaps shooting you in the face with arrows... see rule #3 under HELP RULES.

I did that actually, I believe. I was not only told that the player was legit for killing me one room from a npc army of soldiers but also that I shouldn't whine about it. Thanks for the nonsense at the end there, totally not asinine.

The way I reason it: If my desert elf sees another tribal human resource gathering in the 'Pah, I'm going to leave them alone because I don't want to provoke the ire of other tribes and cause trouble for my own.

But if my desert elf sees a city dweller out doing the same thing, I'm going to feel empowered to challenge them because they're the outsider. They are taking resources out of the 'Pah and if enough of them do this and there isn't enough food to go around for all the tribals living there, it could create a lot of hostility and territory wars over resources. Wars that these city dwelling rangers won't care or be involved in. In this, I feel I have all the justification I need to be out raged at non tribal hunters rolling through my tribe's backyard.

I think that this reasoning can seem nonsensical to players on the receiving end of the arrow. They probably think to themselves: Really?! I just got griefed over a durrit hide!?!?! There'll be another durrit in the same spot in like 15 minutes!!! GRAWH!!!

This is basically justification for the above power fantasy. The docs dont say: "Okay we don't kill tribal humans but city humans BUT CITY HUMANS ARE FREE GAME!" They say that you don't kill without a very good reason, ever. Somebody hunting in the same area you hunt isn't a good reason. Not when there is probably half a hundred hunters in "your lands" hunting right now. What does it matter when only a handful of them might be from the nearby city?

But it's really not a problem with documentation. It's a problem with players. Nobody wants to think about the political reality of desert living.

Your tribe consists of just a hundred souls fed by the tip of your spear, their existence is always a tenuous thing just a few lost could result in the slow death of your people. They live in a place that harbors a plurality of competing tribes, where any misstep, any misinterpretation of intent could result in a feud. Or a professional army at your doorstep. Or any number of revenge seekers who might desire the blood of your best and swiftest. There might be some posturing over resources, I bet most elven tribals would test the boundaries too see what they get. But again, that would be about getting as much as they can for nothing. If an outsider's blood were spilled, now the whole clan is in jeopardy. The offending runner would have to be disciplined (possibly by death) while the tribal elders desperately try to smooth the transgression over to avoid conflict.

This is always how I play my desert elves. But who who wants to do that? MOHAWK POWER FANTASY GO. ARREH ARREH ARREH

[musashi]

This is basically justification for the above power fantasy. The docs dont say: "Okay we don't kill tribal humans but city humans BUT CITY HUMANS ARE FREE GAME!" They say that you don't kill without a very good reason, ever. Somebody hunting in the same area you hunt isn't a good reason. Not when there is probably half a hundred hunters in "your lands" hunting right now. What does it matter when only a handful of them might be from the nearby city?

I believe that protecting the resources of your area constitutes a good reason, and a commoner from the city state has no influence or tribe to back them up if they are victimized. If a GMH decided to move in and start harvesting resources in tribal lands it would be a much bigger deal and the tribes would be more careful in their reaction.

That said, I've never seen desert elves in my time resort to murder as a first result. The MO was always to approach the person or way them first threatening them to leave. Combat ensued if the lone hunter wanted to play out their own "mohawk power fantasy" as you call it.

Your tribe consists of just a hundred souls fed by the tip of your spear, their existence is always a tenuous thing just a few lost could result in the slow death of your people. They live in a place that harbors a plurality of competing tribes, where any misstep, any misinterpretation of intent could result in a feud. Or a professional army at your doorstep. Or any number of revenge seekers who might desire the blood of your best and swiftest. There might be some posturing over resources, I bet most elven tribals would test the boundaries too see what they get. But again, that would be about getting as much as they can for nothing. If an outsider's blood were spilled, now the whole clan is in jeopardy. The offending runner would have to be disciplined (possibly by death) while the tribal elders desperately try to smooth the transgression over to avoid conflict.

See above. Commoners from the city states don't have any protection from said city states when they leave the walls unless they are part of the city's government in some capacity.

[Patuk]

In my interpretation of elves, elves are too thrill-seeking (in terms of their desire to steal) to practice the level of resource conservancy, intra-tribal solidarity and strategic resource defense that yes, probably should typify the human tribes for the reasons that you've outlined above.  I'll concede that there's nothing in the docs to substantiate this claim.  Simply, I tend to think of elves as being largely similar to real life Gypsies

At times in prehistorical research, the question comes up of why homo sapiens survived where the neanderthals died out.

It's really easy to go for explanations like 'they were too stupid'or something similar, but human amd neanderthal brain size aren't even that much different, and archaeological evidence shows that the tools used by neanderthals just about match those of homo sapiens, which would suggest there being more at play here.

Some people point to things like neanderthal tongues being unable to vocalise many words or somesuch, but the theory I've always liked is that of age: neanderthals, to a fault, seem to mever have lived very far past the age of forty, whereas there are corpses of prehistoric homo sapiens who lived well past sixty. Those twenty extra years would allow homo sapiens to perform tasks that required more specific skills, as well as pass them on to further generations.

I think we can carry this theory over to Zalanthas pretty easily.

A young elf might be brash and adventurous, sure. A young elf is therefor also at risk of getting the shit kicked out of him by people next door and deciding that, okay, it might be the coolest thing ever to bring back one of those sweet leaf-bladed spears from the twin tail tribe, but beatings kinda hurt so next time watch out.

This essentially means that an elf of the age of forty is about as fit as a human in his late twenties, while having had more than a decade of extra years of being conscious and responsible enough that the dumbass got beaten out of them. Couple this with a family that is genetically predisposed to immensely care about you and want the best for you no matter what, and said same culture making sure the elf himself is going to always, no matter what else, think of his tribe's wellbeing.. I just dont't see elves being the daredevils you make them out to be.

Also, elf wisdom is way lower than the elf docs promise. Wtf guys?

[Jingo]

This is basically justification for the above power fantasy. The docs dont say: "Okay we don't kill tribal humans but city humans BUT CITY HUMANS ARE FREE GAME!" They say that you don't kill without a very good reason, ever. Somebody hunting in the same area you hunt isn't a good reason. Not when there is probably half a hundred hunters in "your lands" hunting right now. What does it matter when only a handful of them might be from the nearby city?

I believe that protecting the resources of your area constitutes a good reason, and a commoner from the city state has no influence or tribe to back them up if they are victimized. If a GMH decided to move in and start harvesting resources in tribal lands it would be a much bigger deal and the tribes would be more careful in their reaction.

That said, I've never seen desert elves in my time resort to murder as a first result. The MO was always to approach the person or way them first threatening them to leave. Combat ensued if the lone hunter wanted to play out their own "mohawk power fantasy" as you call it.

Your tribe consists of just a hundred souls fed by the tip of your spear, their existence is always a tenuous thing just a few lost could result in the slow death of your people. They live in a place that harbors a plurality of competing tribes, where any misstep, any misinterpretation of intent could result in a feud. Or a professional army at your doorstep. Or any number of revenge seekers who might desire the blood of your best and swiftest. There might be some posturing over resources, I bet most elven tribals would test the boundaries too see what they get. But again, that would be about getting as much as they can for nothing. If an outsider's blood were spilled, now the whole clan is in jeopardy. The offending runner would have to be disciplined (possibly by death) while the tribal elders desperately try to smooth the transgression over to avoid conflict.

See above. Commoners from the city states don't have any protection from said city states when they leave the walls unless they are part of the city's government in some capacity.

Who says they don't? Just because the PC population -probably- won't retaliate doesn't mean it's a good idea. Does that commoner have family? A regular crew? Any number elf haters who might be a part of his social network and try to take revenge? Who says that one more dead hunter is the last straw and  templar x decides to pacify the hinterlands? Your desert elf doesn't know and he should be hyper-conscious that he doesn't know. Because again. How many deaths does it take to spell the end of your tribe? Five of your best hunters? And why is that a risk your desert elf would be willing to take?

As far as resources are concerned, they are shared between a plurality of tribes in the tablelands. Everyone seems to forget that when only desert elf pc's are represented. So when "resources" is common between maybe 50 hunters, why does your desert elf care there might two or three that come from beyond? You certainly can't stop them. There is no gateman on the north road that says "ears or gtfo". The best you can do is pick on the one that you can find. And why not just give him a friendly reminder to take his hides and his business to the blackwing outpost before they leave? It honestly seems to me that "resources" are a slim as fuck ooc justification here.

[musashi]

Who says they don't? Just because the PC population -probably- won't retaliate doesn't mean it's a good idea. Does that commoner have family? A regular crew? Any number elf haters who might be a part of his social network and try to take revenge? Who says that one more dead hunter is the last straw and  templar x decides to pacify the hinterlands? Your desert elf doesn't know and he should be hyper-conscious that he doesn't know. Because again. How many deaths does it take to spell the end of your tribe? Five of your best hunters? And why is that a risk your desert elf would be willing to take?

I believe it's common knowledge that unaffiliated commoners are not powerful influential people. Especially unaffiliated commoners who have to do their own grebbing. Could it have consequences if the elf makes a mistake? Yes. And I think those should be played out in game if they come to pass, but usually the commoner doesn't, and no consequences come. This doesn't seem like a broken system to me. It seems to be working as intended.

As far as resources are concerned, they are shared between a plurality of tribes in the tablelands. Everyone seems to forget that when only desert elf pc's are represented. So when "resources" is common between maybe 50 hunters, why does your desert elf care there might two or three that come from beyond? You certainly can't stop them. There is no gateman on the north road that says "ears or gtfo".

Yes the resources are shared between a plurality of tribes. That's why I said my desert elf wouldn't harass another tribal (human, elf, or otherwise) who was hunting there.

The best you can do is pick on the one that you can find. And why not just give him a friendly reminder to take his hides and his business to the blackwing outpost before they leave? It honestly seems to me that "resources" are a slim as fuck ooc justification here.

I think most people do this. As I said above, it's usually when the indie hunter wants to get lippy and confrontational or they've been caught more than once that they catch an arrow.

[Jingo]

Gotta always be baddest of the bad I guess.

[Rathustra]

Elf players in cities want elf tribes to be more badass. Human players in the wastes want human tribes to be more badass.

[Patuk]

'All opinions are equal so if people disagree you're all wrong to do so'

[Eurynomos]

I was wrong once, but I think I was mistaken.

[Desertman]

Every desert elf I have ever played:

[Patuk]

Being wrong is the internet's cardinal sin, only slightly more grave than not seeding torrents. It is well-known.

[Majikal]

Stir it. Stir it!


I think this thread mostly just gives people the wrong idea about the current state of desert elves, it's outdated information and isolated incidents of what maybe was poor roleplay (nobody has all sides of the story), staff can get all sides and that's what player complaints/questions are for. Updated documentation and dedicated staff has done wonders for that section of the game, I plan on diving back into delves soon because of it, our indie team rocks. Also, remember it's generally the first non-0 karma class that our new players earn and elves in general are difficult to wrap your mind around (but most fulfilling when . Many players don't understand the elven/tribal mindset, many veteran players don't understand the elven mindset/tribal mindset in general.

[shadeoux]

Stir it. Stir it!


I think this thread mostly just gives people the wrong idea about the current state of desert elves, it's outdated information and isolated incidents of what maybe was poor roleplay (nobody has all sides of the story), staff can get all sides and that's what player complaints/questions are for. Updated documentation and dedicated staff has done wonders for that section of the game, I plan on diving back into delves soon because of it, our indie team rocks. Also, remember it's generally the first non-0 karma class that our new players earn and elves in general are difficult to wrap your mind around (but most fulfilling when . Many players don't understand the elven/tribal mindset, many veteran players don't understand the elven mindset/tribal mindset in general.

Lets combine all the current tribes into one  and see what happens....
BlackSun Soh'Ta Var Or BSV

[ibusoe]

Stir it. Stir it!


I think this thread mostly just gives people the wrong idea about the current state of desert elves, it's outdated information and isolated incidents of what maybe was poor roleplay (nobody has all sides of the story), staff can get all sides and that's what player complaints/questions are for. Updated documentation and dedicated staff has done wonders for that section of the game, I plan on diving back into delves soon because of it, our indie team rocks. Also, remember it's generally the first non-0 karma class that our new players earn and elves in general are difficult to wrap your mind around (but most fulfilling when . Many players don't understand the elven/tribal mindset, many veteran players don't understand the elven mindset/tribal mindset in general.

Just PM'd you.

Strongly disagree. 

You're presenting me a catch-22.

Game rules prevent me from commenting on the current state of affairs, so I'm necessarily talking about situations that are at least a year old. 

Don't like this?  This is the way you've structured things.  I understand people like you want to shut this sort of discussion down, but that's really just another form of bullying.  Plenty of other people are having fun on this thread and I'm personally learning a lot, have made at least one friend with someone I didn't like before because of this thread.  Sorry to call you out on this but you're blocking progress. 

[Mordiggian]

This thread presents some outdated information and contributes to the inaccurate ideas some people have about desert elves. If you feel the need to discuss specifics, please do so with staff, via the request tool. We do not discuss account specific information on the GDB anymore and it puts us at an unpleasant communication disadvantage when we try to get a back-and-forth going about something a player might have an issue with, only to have them vaguely cite specific events on the GDB while avoiding a direct request tool dialogue with us.

You guys are welcome to discuss desert elves, and where you think they (a general they, no specifics) are lame, or ways you think they might improve.

You guys are not welcome to accuse people you don't like of trolling, and you aren't welcome to level insults and vitriol at other posters, be they player or staff.

[ibusoe]

This thread presents some outdated information and contributes to the inaccurate ideas some people have about desert elves. If you feel the need to discuss specifics, please do so with staff, via the request tool. We do not discuss account specific information on the GDB anymore and it puts us at an unpleasant communication disadvantage when we try to get a back-and-forth going about something a player might have an issue with, only to have them vaguely cite specific events on the GDB while avoiding a direct request tool dialogue with us.

You guys are welcome to discuss desert elves, and where you think they (a general they, no specifics) are lame, or ways you think they might improve.

You guys are not welcome to accuse people you don't like of trolling, and you aren't welcome to level insults and vitriol at other posters, be they player or staff.

Read you loud and clear, Sir.  I'll tone it down.  Thanks for not simply locking my thread!!

<3

[musashi]

Gotta always be baddest of the bad I guess.

Everyone wants to be the main character in an RPG.

There is one other area where I think people's perception on desert elves is skewed: how powerful they are as a race.

Desert elves get some neat perks as a race, no doubt about it. But I don't think their racial abilities or attribute rolls is what gives them the ability to dominate people in combat situations. In my experience, the reason for that was much more mundane.

A desert elf is a fairly isolated role. There just aren't that many other tribal people prowling around the 'Pah compared to Allanak so you are on your own for large stretches of your play time. What do you do when you have no one else to RP with? You grind. I strongly think the reason desert elves tend to be so badass pretty much comes down to not having a tavern to sit in.

[Is Friday]

I have, myself, full confidence that if all do their duty, if nothing is neglected, and if the best arrangements are made, as they are being made, we shall prove ourselves once again able to defend our Pah home, to run out the storm of war, and to outlive the menace of tyranny, if necessary for years, if necessary alone.

At any rate, that is what we are going to try to do. That is the resolve of His Mohawk's Gloriousness-every man of them. That is the will of Elders and the Pah.

The Sun Runners and the Soh Lanah Kah, linked together in their cause and in their need, will defend to the death their native soil and rights to mohawks, aiding each other like good comrades to the utmost of their strength.

Even though large tracts of Zalanthas and many old and famous dank Arm memes have fallen or may fall into the grip of the GDB whiners and all the odious apparatus of Nyrtannical rule, we shall not flag or fail.

We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in the Red,
we shall fight on the silt and docks,
we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Pah, whatever the cost may be,
we shall fight on the silt beaches,
we shall fight on the landing grounds,
we shall fight in the barrens and in the Post,
we shall fight in the mesa;
we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this Pah or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our mudsex partners in offpeak, armed and guarded by there being no staff online, would carry on the struggle, until, in good time, the New Armageddon, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.

[Majikal]

If a DESERT elf...
HAS A BABY
with a CITY elf...
Does that baby have dual sneak/hide?

[musashi]

I just realized I love your signature Majikal.