The Staff / Player Divide

[Ath]

Also, if you see someone doing something stupid and breaking the rules, let us know and we'll investigate.  We do want to game to improve, we do want to make it better, and we do want to make sure those that are breaking the rules of the game are taken care of.  There are times where we may not see things or we'll miss things.  If it is really game breaking, wish up!  Either way, if someone is doing something stupid and breaking the rules, don't just accept it... report it.  This is your game too, we all play together, and we all want it to be fun.

I actually stopped by the TS last night.  It was fun to chat and talk about a few things.  OMG!  Someone even got rid of a rug!

[frankjacoby]

I'm not a fan of every change that's been made, but I agree with James that the playerbase doesn't need to be consulted, and that the staff shouldn't feel obligated to consult us.

There are a lot of changes this game has gone through that I don't like. But my liking or not liking a change should have no bearing on what the staff chooses to do. And my liking or not liking a change has no bearing on any expectation I should have of being consulted. I'm not a staff member, they should not feel obligated to consult with me, or any other non-staff-member player, unless they're needing test subjects to play around with a code change. I -have- been consulted on that in the past, and was tickled pink (as in - very happy) that they did so.

But no, the membership at large doesn't "deserve" to be consulted about much, and it could end up being counter-productive, if instead of actually making necessary changes, they spent all their time listening to the debates back and forth, and the game comes to a standstill as a result.

I would have to disagree based on the facts that the players are the ones that have to live with the changes, if the players walked because of the changes, where does that leave the game?  It leaves it like a lot of other muds, namely, with no players, dead in the water.

There has to be a happy medium where staff and players communicate what changes are coming and see if they are warranted, wanted or add to the positive element of the game as opposed to causing another sore spot.  Blindly agreeing with staff to score points doesn't seem to be in the best interest of everyone, neither does bitching because you disagree with staff help foster a magnificent game such as this.  There should be, IMO a happy medium (as mentioned previously) that can be reached.

Just my $0.02

[Malifaxis]

I'm not a fan of every change that's been made, but I agree with James that the playerbase doesn't need to be consulted, and that the staff shouldn't feel obligated to consult us.

There are a lot of changes this game has gone through that I don't like. But my liking or not liking a change should have no bearing on what the staff chooses to do. And my liking or not liking a change has no bearing on any expectation I should have of being consulted. I'm not a staff member, they should not feel obligated to consult with me, or any other non-staff-member player, unless they're needing test subjects to play around with a code change. I -have- been consulted on that in the past, and was tickled pink (as in - very happy) that they did so.

But no, the membership at large doesn't "deserve" to be consulted about much, and it could end up being counter-productive, if instead of actually making necessary changes, they spent all their time listening to the debates back and forth, and the game comes to a standstill as a result.

I would have to disagree based on the facts that the players are the ones that have to live with the changes, if the players walked because of the changes, where does that leave the game?  It leaves it like a lot of other muds, namely, with no players, dead in the water.

There has to be a happy medium where staff and players communicate what changes are coming and see if they are warranted, wanted or add to the positive element of the game as opposed to causing another sore spot.  Blindly agreeing with staff to score points doesn't seem to be in the best interest of everyone, neither does bitching because you disagree with staff help foster a magnificent game such as this.  There should be, IMO a happy medium (as mentioned previously) that can be reached.

Just my $0.02

Take you $0.02 and spend half of it to read this thought.

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,49813.0.html

They do communicate, they do listen, they aren't just mindless coding machines.  They love this game just like we do.  Some decisions are awesome for us, some decisions we might not agree with, and yet others might seem like mistakes at first only to become completely radsauce once we see the exact scope of everything. 

And if you think the staff don't play the game and enjoy it just like we do, I will be forced to laugh down my sleeve at you.

[frankjacoby]

Had you read my post good sir, you would not see fit to flame me thusly, but I shall not respond further, I bid you a fond adieu.

THIS right here is why I don't usually bother participating on the forums

[Is Friday]

That was flaming? Wow.

[Molten Heart]

It's ironic that our staff, with their excellent communication and listening skills, have these kinds of problems at all. All these people with complaints must be sociopaths. Why can't they all just go somewhere and die so all of us normal well adjusted, breathing feeling, human beings, filled with understanding and compassion, can get on with this beautiful thing we all love called ArmageddonMUD.

[Taijan]

It's ironic that our staff, with their excellent communication and listening skills, have these kinds of problems at all. All these people with complaints must be sociopaths. Why can't they all just go somewhere and die so all of us normal well adjusted, breathing feeling, human beings, filled with understanding and compassion, can get on with this beautiful thing we all love called ArmageddonMUD.

[Molten Heart]

Sorry, sometimes the cynicism gets out.

[Saellyn]

I sense... sarcasm.

[Is Friday]

Thinly veiled sarcastic comment to feel clever while undermining the work of others.

[Desertman]

It leaves it like a lot of other muds us with no players fuel, no prospects, dead in the water on the drift.

THAT AIN'T US. NOT NEVER.

[LoD]

There will always be a divide between players and staff.

It was this way in the beginning.  It will be this way at the end.

It is not a problem; it is simply a truth whenever you have one group of people using a product and a separate group of people managing the product.  The two groups will have interaction and a multitude of variables will be entered into each unique interpersonal equation.  Those variables will include the nature of the request, the tone of the request, wording of the request, timing of the request, recipient of the request, timeliness of response, wording of response, tone of response, acceptance of a request/idea/submission/demand and the fragile ego to which it is attached, the sheer volume of requests that day, the number of times said staff member has received this request today, the emotional color of the conversation they just finished with another staffer, etc...

If you don't like it on one side of the fence, endeavor to become the change you want to see and come to the other side of the fence.  It may not bring you happiness, but you will probably understand the nature of the problem with deeper understanding than when you began that process.

This happens everywhere you go in life -- apartments, corporate jobs, Amazon, school systems, political offices -- some portion of the people not in power will always be at odds with those people in power.

Because people.  Because human.

Thanks, Obama.

[Molten Heart]

Thinly veiled sarcastic comment to feel clever while undermining the work of others.

What's this in reference to?

[Armaddict]

Derail:  Whut?  LoD is still here?!

[Majikal]

It leaves it like a lot of other muds us with no players fuel, no prospects, dead in the water on the drift.

THAT AIN'T US. NOT NEVER.

I nominate best post in thread.

[Kevo]

Someone pointed out to me recently, (the voice in my head), that staff may not realize all of the hard work I put into a char. They don't see me, the player, struggle with what options are realistic, what I can do to have fun but still remain IC, etc. I do A LOT of thinking about how my char should act, and sometimes there are things that really, really affect my char that continues while I'm logged off. So if I log back in, and my char is acting pissy, the staff watching might not know why. I didn't write up a bio immediately, so they're clueless as to this change in demeanor, and may not understand my reasoning completely.

This is just a small example of the staff not knowing what kind of work I put in, and how hard I try to play true to the role, and add to the game. A lot of times, I may not even be successful in my attempts.

I mention all of this, because it was this exchange that allowed me to flip the script and put myself in staff shoes. There's how many staff members? (I don't even know) And what do they all do? And how often? I'm sure there's tons of communication and exchange, and I'm certain staff can attest that no changes get implemented without a lot of thought. But I don't see it. It's not visible, so it's not readily apparent, and I'm not often thinking about it.

Change in general is upsetting for me when I'm not forewarned of it. Even though I haven't railed against staff often (I keep my mouth shut about my feelings. Feelings are for breeds), I do still get irritated when they do things that I don't agree with, or make changes that I think, frankly, suck.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if staff puts as much thought into their actions as I do mine, they have fifty good reasons for every thing they do, and each option has been weighed carefully. I just really have to trust that they care as much as I do, and considering they spend a shit ton more time working on Arm than I do, it's pretty reasonable to defer to their judgement.



Still, I think I would like more visibility from staff. And I still want the playerbase to create 30 page threads discussing the pros and cons of whether or not to nerf HG bash.

[ibusoe]

This thread is awesome.  Would like to recommend to staff to encourage more of this type of stuff.  It does more to eliminate suspicions, mistrust and conspiracy theories than any number of boiler-plate announcements do.

This game is run so much better than it was in the dark days and I think that having a (polite) public grief process will dry up about 80% of the public grief.

My own problem with the staff?  Well, about a year and a half ago, I was playing this SLK character who....ah, ya know what?  It's not worth it.  Just seeing other people posting openly about their problems with the staff, and having the staff respond politely is evaporating any remaining angst I have about the issue.  Thanks for listening, though.

[Kol]

                                     ^
                                     l
                                     l


  Found the Divide.

[Nyr]

                                    ^
                                     l
                                     l


  Found the Divide.

This is subtle and I like it a lot

[Kevo]

the spoon (divide) is in your mind.