Following into falls or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Sinkhole

[Delirium]

What's more ridiculous, a misplaced keystroke sending you over the edge of a massive cliff, or coded protections in place against OOC mistakes?

Coded protection wouldn't stop you from:

a) Being disoriented in a storm and going over the edge
b) fleeing in the wrong direction and going over the edge
c) various magickal attacks
d) being subdued and thrown over the edge
e) a crit-failed ride attempt sending you over the edge
f) I'm sure the list goes on

It would simply protect you against meaning to type "l n" and typing "n" or a lack of OOC understanding that it was a climb room.

[Synthesis]

I -might- be okay with being able to walk yourself into a pit.

Definitely not okay with being able to walk yourself and every one of your followers into a pit.

[BadSkeelz]

Walking yourself into a pit/off a cliff and then needing to recovered or rescued by those left topside will promote more RP than walking yourself and your entire clan off a cliff.

[Armaddict]

against OOC mistakes?

This isn't an OOC mistake.  Unless you count not bowing to a PC as an OOC mistake.  Or not bowing enough times to a Red Robed templar an OOC mistake (happened to me here).  Or not knowing that gith throw things at you an OOC mistake.  Or that you get thirsty faster outside the gates an OOC mistake.  Or not knowing that crim code works in this place an OOC mistake.  Or that this room has a climb che---wait.

This is a mistake...just like any other mistake made in the game that you have to deal with the consequences of.  It is, indeed, part of learning and respecting the game.

[Delirium]

You're not getting what I'm saying. I'm takling about a misplaced keystroke or the room description being too vague.

If you accidentally target the hook-nosed elf instead of the hook-nosed templar, nobody's going to kill you for that (and if so they're a jerk), because everyone knows it was a mistake.

[BadSkeelz]

Or a cleverly placed assassin trying to curry favor? Can't be too sure.

Mistakes are a part of the game and should remain a part of the game. It isn't right to make scores of other players pay for your mistake. That's why I support stopping followers from going down drops.

[Narf]

Edited:  The current line of thinking from people seems to be 'I, the player, should be allowed to make mistakes of what I do in game without suffering consequences.' or 'I, the player, should have coded safeguards against making mistakes.'  You use different words, but...that is, essentially, what you're saying, right?

Maybe some people, but my line of thinking I is entirely different from this.

"Is the coding simple enough to get done in a reasonable amount of time?"

With the direction changes, the answer is yes. Any builder can do that. With all the suggested code changes the answer seems to be no.

People need to put a lot more emphasis on the feasibility of their suggestions, and the opportunity cost of their "harshness." I'm not saying the game should be less harsh. I'm saying the types of harshness chosen should be less costly in resources.

[Delirium]

I hope you're joking.

I think our characters can tell the difference between an elf and a blue-robed templar.

There are certain things that happen because this game is text-based and have absolutely no basis in reality, and you guys are really just splitting hairs at this point.

[BadSkeelz]

I think our characters can tell the difference between an elf and a blue-robed templar.

If you can't be arsed to type "backstab hook.elf" instead of "backstab hook" ... I'm not sure your character can.

[Armaddict]

It isn't right to make scores of other players pay for your mistake. That's why I support stopping followers from going down drops.

That's where I already agreed that there should be some evaluation of where code could be tweaked.

But I am not for more coded safeguards against mistakes of the self, as well.  Because making the game mistake proof is pretty anti-hostile-world as a whole.

If you accidentally target the hook-nosed elf instead of the hook-nosed templar, nobody's going to kill you for that (and if so they're a jerk), because everyone knows it was a mistake.

And if you accidentally target the hook-nosed templar instead of the hook-nosed elf, you're probably going to die.  And you won't get a resurrection, either.

A vague description means exactly that...the danger isn't clear.  A misplaced keystroke...-seriously-?

"You're moving into a room adjacent to a hostile creature, are you sure you want to to do this?"
"You're leaving the city, where things are hostile and conditions are set to make life harder, are you sure you want to do this?"
"You're about to engage in combat, are you sure you want to do this?"
"Theft can result in a criminal flag, which often has unforeseen consequences, are you sure you want to do this?"
"You're about to enter patrolled territory of this desert elf tribe which attacks people on sight, are you sure you want to do this?"
"This item isn't spice, but is treated like spice because it behaves like spice, and you're a half-giant, which means they won't take you to jail, they'll just kill you, are you sure you want to pick that up?"

Mistakes -are- part of the game.

[Delirium]

Oh my goodness.

I'm saying that planting an elf with a similar keyword in the room in an attempt to cause the player to mistarget is absolutely ridiculous.

The ability to add multiple keywords is because of that mis-targeting issue, and was a wonderful addition to the game. Yes, you should be making ample use of that where necessary.

That has NOTHING to do with how easy it is to realize belatedly that your l key is sticking and you've just sent your entire fucking troupe over the cliff.

You guys are being really hyperbolic about this harshness thing.

It would be much easier to implement a keystroke safeguard than it would to code in some elaborate follow/nofollow stuff which I'm not against but seems rather unecessary.

[BadSkeelz]

Try slowing down and actually typing out "look <direction>"?

[TheWanderer]

that's crazy. we live our lives in the fast lane. come back when you're done spouting nonsense

[Delirium]

[BadSkeelz]

I always do a knot of spice 'fore riding along the North Road old skool style.



I don't want to fall. Your followers don't want to fall. They (probably) don't want to see you fall, either. I think we could all use a slow down. We should be taking more time to look around, AND dangerous terrain that should be obvious to spot should be made more obvious where it isn't. Followers shouldn't follow leaders off cliffs blindly. Wagons should still be able to be driven off cliffs cause they give us something to do and it makes a teeny bit more sense, being big unwieldy contraptions.

[Is Friday]

The game commands and environment should facilitate more meaningful conflict and RP, not constantly recovering from dumbass static archaic GOTCHA pits.

[Armaddict]

The game commands and environment should facilitate more meaningful conflict and RP, not constantly recovering from dumbass static archaic GOTCHA pits.

The idea that players should only die in player conflicts and not to the deadly world is decidedly anti-armageddon, in my opinion.  Are you for removing the increased thirst rate outside the gates, as well?

[Beethoven]

I fell off the shield wall once (didn't die.) It wasn't in a storm. I just...completely misinterpreted the room desc. It didn't feel "harsh"; it felt cartoonish, like a Wile E. Coyote moment.

[nauta]

What's more ridiculous, a misplaced keystroke sending you over the edge of a massive cliff, or coded protections in place against OOC mistakes?

Coded protection wouldn't stop you from:

a) Being disoriented in a storm and going over the edge
b) fleeing in the wrong direction and going over the edge
c) various magickal attacks
d) being subdued and thrown over the edge
e) a crit-failed ride attempt sending you over the edge
f) I'm sure the list goes on

It would simply protect you against meaning to type "l n" and typing "n" or a lack of OOC understanding that it was a climb room.

I think this draws the right distinction: there are IG dangers that are coded (a-f are great examples).  Then there are OOC dangers (typos and poor room descriptions).  I suppose I'd be of the camp who would like to eliminate OOC dangers from the game.  Sure having OOC dangers helps to 'simulate' a dangerous hostile world, but that's by accident, not design, and, for me at least, it is always pretty dubious, jarring, and immersion breaking.  There is no way, for example, I can understand why my PC would literally walk off a rooftop, or why my PC decided to sap their mount instead of that jozhal.  In such cases, I (and others) have to go back and do post hoc explanations, which are often super flimsy.  (By analogy, I remember a while back someone suggesting that the wall-of-spam effect in bars 'simulates' how noisy a bar is - in a sense this is true, but that's by accident, not design.)

Implementing Narf's suggestion (or something of the sort) on places where the drops are obvious makes sense.  Maybe not -all- of them -- you can still have those hidden drops, which require you to read the room descriptions carefully and tread lightly.  But at least the ones that any non insane PC would reasonable not walk off of (unless conditions [a-f] are present)... It'd also be the least intrusive code-wise.

[Marauder Moe]

Hehehe... slippery slope arguments.  Ironic.

[Alesan]

What would be nice here is if someone from staff would definitively say "No, we are doing nothing about this, please stop talking about it."

Or.

"We are considering a mechanic that will alleviate this in some way for either future or recently affected players, or both."

Until that happens, you're all just beating a dead horse at this point.

[Is Friday]

Armaddict: are you supporting lemming deaths? That's all I'm against. There's a dozen good suggestions to keep the pits while removing the retarded pit genocide.

For everyone else: if this isn't changed by the time my PC is a leader I'll lead a group of no less than 10 over the edge and OOC "My bad" just before you see mantishead. Hope you guys are looking forward to that plot.

[RogueGunslinger]

No, he's said he's against lemming deaths.

... And now I forgot what I came here tos ay.

[BadSkeelz]

For everyone else: if this isn't changed by the time my PC is a leader I'll lead a group of no less than 10 over the edge and OOC "My bad" just before you see mantishead. Hope you guys are looking forward to that plot.

I would

emote air guitars on ^me way down, shredding to oblivion

myself.

[Is Friday]

I'll make sure to build up the plot with 15 red herrings involving a nilazi hideout, gith radicals, Tuluki spies, and a new elemental plane. Then you'll all fall into a hole while following me because HARSH DESERT WORLD.