Tuluk Closing: A month later.

[RogueGunslinger]

I'm interested in both the player and staff side of things, as changes were implemented to help them as much as the players and the game.

How do you all feel about the changes? How has it impacted you and the way you play? Do you think the change was for the better? Were you playing in Tuluk? If so how are you enjoying other places of the game now? If you had concerns did those concerns have merit? Is there anything that happened that was unexpected?


Personally I'm still very happy. I run into way more players, at all times of day and night. Also it seems like lots of plots are hitting the in-game message boards. If you walk by the Gaj around peak times there's always around 10 people in there. I'm very pleased with the changes so far, but I sort of wanted this to happen for a while, so that's probably not surprising.

[Norcal]

Not a fan. 

[Clearsighted]

A fan.

[HavokBlue]

I haven't played a very involved character since Tuluk closed shop but I do think the increased player density in the south is nice.

[Lizzie]

I'm on the fence. On the one hand, it's nice to see more characters more often. On the other hand, I'm seeing more characters more often who are either sitting idle, not interacting, as if they were linkdead or just parked at the bar while the player isn't paying attention to the game screen - or they're making a little too much effort to make use of the brawl code. I don't really see much else, that I wouldn't have seen before the Tuluk closure.

[MeTekillot]

I only logged in because someone told me about Tuluk closing!

[Asmoth]

I'm on the fence. On the one hand, it's nice to see more characters more often. On the other hand, I'm seeing more characters more often who are either sitting idle, not interacting, as if they were linkdead or just parked at the bar while the player isn't paying attention to the game screen - or they're making a little too much effort to make use of the brawl code. I don't really see much else, that I wouldn't have seen before the Tuluk closure.

This and I just feel like when I make a ranger character, that the north is missing a huge chunk of what was meant to be there.

Morin's is nice, but it's no Tuluk.

If it was "Asmoth's Arm" I would re-institute it tomorrow.

But on the flip side, it was always more of a waystation to me than a place I wanted to live and play everyday.

[Malken]

I'm on the fence. On the one hand, it's nice to see more characters more often. On the other hand, I'm seeing more characters more often who are either sitting idle, not interacting, as if they were linkdead or just parked at the bar while the player isn't paying attention to the game screen - or they're making a little too much effort to make use of the brawl code. I don't really see much else, that I wouldn't have seen before the Tuluk closure.

It seems like by concentrating the playerbase in Allanak, it might have intensified everything I dislike about Allanak, which is a lot of what you've mentioned (people just parked at the bar, 5 hidden people in there waiting for you to go back to your apartment and a bunch of brawling idiots) because you now have a lot more players there to make it more noticeable.

I voted that I really like it thought, not because I like being stuck in Allanak but because it seems to have given a new exciting boost to the game, its players and most importantly its Staff.

[Clearsighted]

I'm on the fence. On the one hand, it's nice to see more characters more often. On the other hand, I'm seeing more characters more often who are either sitting idle, not interacting, as if they were linkdead or just parked at the bar while the player isn't paying attention to the game screen - or they're making a little too much effort to make use of the brawl code. I don't really see much else, that I wouldn't have seen before the Tuluk closure.

It seems like by concentrating the playerbase in Allanak, it might have intensified everything I dislike about Allanak, which is a lot of what you've mentioned (people just parked at the bar, 5 hidden people in there waiting for you to go back to your apartment and a bunch of brawling idiots) because you now have a lot more players there to make it more noticeable.

I voted that I really like it thought, not because I like being stuck in Allanak but because it seems to have given a new exciting boost to the game, its players and most importantly its Staff.

Well. Just because Tuluk is closed, doesn't mean you have to be stuck in Allanak. I've spent as little time in Allanak as possible since Tuluk closed, and I still find the change much better. It's given life to the whole southlands, and made the North a slightly more exotic locale. It also seems a bit more dangerous than before.

The real benefit of Tuluk's closing, is that the game could get rid of the Northern Militia, Templarate and Noble houses, and the Northern branch of every GMH. Because realistically, whatever you liked about Tuluk, the game can pretty much only handle one iteration of all those clans.

In the past, with Tuluk open, and everyone spread so thin, you would have the bare minimum. Now, it seems with more templars and nobles in the mix, concentrated in one area, there's a bit of stuff going on. As opposed to the Tuluki custom of storing one's self after a couple weeks.

There's plenty of places besides Tuluk one can go to get away from what seems to annoy Lizzie, (which to be perfectly blunt, seems able to be summed up as 'newbies').

[Pale Horse]

There's plenty of places besides Tuluk one can go to get away from what seems to annoy Lizzie, (which to be perfectly blunt, seems able to be summed up as 'newbies').

Or, you know, those situations that she doesn't enjoy that others do.

Like..bar idling..random acts of violence...robbing the same guy for the third time this play session, etc.

I voted "Other."  I haven't had a character since before Tuluk closed!  Hell, I haven't even had a chance to check out the shops one can visit to flesh out their character before stepping IG.  My last two characters were tribals, totaling up about 4 years of actual time played.  The shops weren't implemented yet!

[FantasyWriter]

My most recent character was a Naki citizen who actually lived in Allanak (I seldom play city bound PCs).
It was probably the most enjoyable city character in at least a few years.
I've never seen one area of the game so active, and I thought it was great.
It actually seems possible now to play a "nobody" where before everyone was noticed,
and nearly every character knew a little something about nearly every other character.

I look forward to coming back later in the year and seeing how things are progressing after more water has passed under the bridge.

[Royal]

One thing that's been worrying me is if people are going to still play northerners genuinely loyal to Tuluk rather than somebody that just happens to have the accent and lives down south. And just confused as to who you would talk to or interact with when it came to north--especially if you need somebody of authority.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

While I'd be fine seeing a capped Morin's Legion unit of PCs, and a Templar to lead them, and also to offer leadership in that area, I'd guess your best bet would be dealing with staff, or viewing Morin's as a Red Storm-ish sort of place to play, where you are the ball that gets everything rolling. I agree, though, it would be good to infuse that place with Northern patriots. No reason not to, really.

[hopeandsorrow]

Terrible there's all these peoples trying to talk to me.
No space to sell stuff at shops.
People always hanging out in my hidey holes.
All these things are happening and I'm scared and frightened.
The apartments smell of some strange type of musk all the time.

I don't even know whats going on.

[CodeMaster]

Terrible there's all these peoples trying to talk to me.
No space to sell stuff at shops.
People always hanging out in my hidey holes.
All these things are happening and I'm scared and frightened.
The apartments smell of some strange type of musk all the time.

I don't even know whats going on.

I saw a pack of elves walking around and they were ragged and dirty looking.  Something big is happening.

[bracken]

I liked having an event that changed the direction of my and other PC life.  Like the effects of the gypsy war, only more wide spread and severe. I like what I have heard of the two cumunities that seem to have developed, though once our generation of PC s die they will lose the special flavour.
I don't like losing the experience of being in the wrong city. Background inking is not the same as being a Real Tuluki.
It seems to be good for the clans and nobility, and for indie clans as well.

Me, I'm still sad, so I'm  voting "other", meaning I approve, but  

[Jihelu]

Too sum up what I was going to post
"Fuck this is pretty good"

I assume staff will help me kill muk Utep in about a week?

[Miko]

I love how much more staff attention Allanak is getting. For that reason I voted that this has been positive.

It's sad to see Tuluk become "virtual" but I see it as a necessary evil for an area of the game to get a deserved amount of attention.

[Gaare]

It has been awesome so far. I still think we need at least a couple of months for having a decent idea, but as a Eastern European player, it's amazing to see so many active players around.

PS. Elves know how to rock.

[Gunnerblaster]

PS. Elves know how to rock.

Because of their time spent as cheap slaves in the obsidian mines?

I'm liking the change. Although I haven't taken a single step into Allanak since the changes, I've seen their effects everywhere else. Places like Cenyr tend to have more than your once a month visitor now

[Centurion]

I voted other. With Tuluk closing I stopped playing. Though that was more because of loosing a beloved character I feel. I love inside Allanak, but outside is meh.

I'll be back soon to give it a real go.

[Tuannon]

Do you have to store because you're basically stuck?

If you had the intention of playing a citybound role right around Tuluk closing up, this is pretty much where you are right now.

[In Dreams]

Mixed feelings!

I mean, on one hand I really just like Tuluk - and much of Tuluki culture that it feels like Allanak lacks - a lot and I really miss it. A certain element of diversity in PCs, backgrounds, and even in certain cultural stylings and possessions seems like it was lost. I miss bards. I miss fanatical northern patriotism. I miss public performances.

Oh, and I really miss the diversity that's lost when tons of shops sell silk and there are soooo maaaaany cool silk items but only like 4 people in Allanak can even possibly wear them. There needs to be more fine linen/cotton/leather alternatives to some of those silk items.

On the other hand Allanak feels really alive and populated and I like the interaction I can get whenever I want it. Clans seem more populated and represented a lot better. I could go for months, before, without seeing certain merchant and noble houses represented with PCs. Not so anymore!

Thieves seem to be somewhat rampant, like someone mentioned before. But maybe that's just how Nak is supposed to be? I don't know much about thievery but I like what it adds to the game anyway. I rarely feel safe and secure behind closed doors.

[hyzhenhok]

Surely it's a good thing if it's true that thieves are rampant. Now when your Bone Swordz Of MuthaFucker Chopping go missing, you won't automatically know who done it. Witch hunts against sneaky types are much harder when they throng the cities as they should.

I came back to the game because I saw the change and I've really been enjoying it. I think the fact that if you're in Allanak you can log in and be fairly certain of running into other PCs at any time of the day is amazing. It seems to me the >who counts during offpeak are much higher and consistent than they were back in the day.

[valeria]

I was initially skeptical, but it's turned out pretty okay.  Then again, I haven't needed to roll a new PC yet, and most of my fears were based around that, so I'm not sure a month is long enough for me to decide exactly how I feel about it.

[Suhuy]

I'm impressed with what the change has resulted in so far, though perhaps I'd be less so if I had been playing a Tuluki role at the time. Allanak is brimming now! And it's even busier during late, late hours. At the time of day/night (depending on your clock) when the who list usually drops into the teens, I've now  seen it still in the 30s. Contrast that with the days of 55 players online where you can't find a single PC anywhere in the public parts of the game and it's hard for me to deny that this change is a good one.

Like most other posters here though, I'm sad to see Tuluk go. I always felt there was opportunity for conflict between the cities which had never quite been realized. To this day I'll never understand why there weren't regular skirmishes in the wilderness between Naki templar patrols and Tuluki templar patrols (if there were any at all). Sort of like how you see China and its neighbours all trying to lay claim to the South China Sea by building man made islands and even sending war planes through the area just to make a statement. Naki PCs could have started patrolling an area close but not quite part of Tuluk's domain, forcing hostility from their adversaries who would have no choice but to react or risk accepting the idea of Allanaki expansion.

But chalk recent changes up to a lesser of two evils. The game is livelier now and I'm enjoying the concentrated world we're seeing. It will be interesting to see how things develop both population wise and interaction wise in the months ahead.

[HavokBlue]

To this day I'll never understand why there weren't regular skirmishes in the wilderness between Naki templar patrols and Tuluki templar patrols (if there were any at all). Sort of like how you see China and its neighbours all trying to lay claim to the South China Sea by building man made islands and even sending war planes through the area just to make a statement. Naki PCs could have started patrolling an area close but not quite part of Tuluk's domain, forcing hostility from their adversaries who would have no choice but to react or risk accepting the idea of Allanaki expansion.

This is one of those things that sounds a lot simpler on paper than it actually is. If you look at how combat between groups of multiple PCs usually goes, then nobody is going to engage unless they know they have the advantage, and once a fight happens, whoever gets dogpiled is going to get killed in about ten seconds and then start a GDB thread about revamping group combat. Templar PCs pursuing long-running plots that are sweeping up a lot of people might get popped by a poison arrow and then next thing you know all those plots are now dead in the water and nothing gets done. The turnover rate on militia roles increases significantly, making it even more difficult to maintain a combat ready clan, and if you are having recruiting woes, good luck ever being able to bring enough people to the fight.

[BadSkeelz]

Because fuck you, that's why. Nah, what HavokBlue said. The PVP war was pretty unwieldy and not very fun to actually fight.

[BadSkeelz]

On a slightly more reasoned note, I'm really liking the change. I'm glad to be back in Allanak because I just like it thematically more than Tuluk. It's great seeing the City being truly alive and vibrant.

I'm curious as to what life is like for those who don't play in the City right now: tribals, Red Stormers, other sorts. I hope they're feeling some of the love and seeing increased interaction as well.

[ABoredLion]

Activity in Red Storm is up. I believe the population is actually getting somewhere. Seeing more regulars, and no that isn't a Kuraci joke. Activity in the area surrounding Tuluk(without actually being in Tuluk) seems still fair, weirdly enough. I can't speak for everyone, but I can say that now that the major power in that area exists virtually, and I don't have to deal with the constant social blunders on my characters' parts and the reactions to them from Tuluk, I feel more willing to play around on that side of the world. It's not a less people is more/better roleplay, it's just that often times I felt a bit...out of place, and now I feel fairly free to wander up there(barring the occasional dangerous kryl/etc). I can't by any means suggest that anything truthfully has been affected by the closing in regards to playability in the area, because that would be a lie. The surroundings aren't different. I can say however that I feel strangely comfortable by comparison, the fact that I don't have to worry as much about PCs giving me grief up there...aside from those neckers. But they're elves...elves will be elves.

[manonfire]

Crossposted from the Odd Urges thread, from April 11th.

Destroy Tuluk and consolidate the playerbase for the upcoming apocalypse.

I still completely support this idea.

Naaah. I think it'd be a cool experience to consolidate the playerbase for a few months, just to see what a fully-functioning city looks like.

Called it. Bow down to your oracle.

[Suhuy]

I dunno, HavocBlue man. While I haven't played a combat oriented character in many many years and can't speak with much authority, I do remember being involved in countless skirmishes during the rebellion days. Some involved imm animation, but there were plenty of player to player assaults that took place too. Could be there were other variables that made it possible back then, not sure.

[Clearsighted]

Like most other posters here though, I'm sad to see Tuluk go. I always felt there was opportunity for conflict between the cities which had never quite been realized. To this day I'll never understand why there weren't regular skirmishes in the wilderness between Naki templar patrols and Tuluki templar patrols (if there were any at all).

There would have been skirmishes if the staff wanted there to be skirmishes. Although, to be fair, most players of templars themselves have never been especially keen on riding out into the wasteland unless impelled to by absolute necessity. Still, if they thought staff wanted them out there, they'd have gone out there.

That meant the only real city vs city conflict was in highly elaborate and orchestrated RPTs where you had a higher chance of being crushed by a 'unit of sadistically grinning half-giants' than see a red robe and a jihaen having at it.

Compounding this is that the players that typically find themselves in the highest leadership roles (such as senior nobles or templars themselves), are generally those (and I'm not saying everyone was like this so please spare me the obvious counter examples, but this is true for a good 75%-85%) are those who themselves are not generally keen on PvP skirmishes out in the wastelands. It only takes one of X-D's delves to ruin your once in a decade templar app, or something similar.

So that is why you didn't get templar-lead skirmishes between the city-states. Staff didn't want it, and absent pleasing staff with their initiative, the players of templars themselves are generally not hot on haring off into the wastes so someone can pincushion them. This restricted true conflict to highly elaborate RPTs where you had a good change of getting crushed by gicker artillery or 'units' of NPCs in blinding combat spam.

Furthermore, Armageddon has definitely drifted away from its PvP centric roots in recent years from the days of the Rebellion. Even after being gone only a few years, I've been a bit surprised by changing norms.

That might have a lot to do with the pruning away of any antagonistic/raider clans over the years.

All the same, I think Armageddon is in a better place than it has been since Arm 2.0 was announced. I'm enjoying it.

[valeria]

Let's stay on topic, guys.  Please don't derail this thread into a 'how staff/leaders should run a pvp war.'  Make your own thread if you want to discuss that. 

[bcw81]

Like most other posters here though, I'm sad to see Tuluk go. I always felt there was opportunity for conflict between the cities which had never quite been realized. To this day I'll never understand why there weren't regular skirmishes in the wilderness between Naki templar patrols and Tuluki templar patrols (if there were any at all).

So that is why you didn't get templar-lead skirmishes between the city-states. Staff didn't want it, and absent pleasing staff with their initiative, the players of templars themselves are generally not hot on haring off into the wastes so someone can pincushion them. This restricted true conflict to highly elaborate RPTs where you had a good change of getting crushed by gicker artillery or 'units' of NPCs in blinding combat spam.

As a point of contention, there -were- player led attacks on the enemy cities and surrounding lands upwards of seven times in the last year alone. These were attacks led by actual PC Templars dealing with actual PC military and auxiliaries. These were not staff pushed events, either.

[HavokBlue]

Staff were pretty on board with PC military encounters. Players were encouraged to pursue this in varying degrees, at least up in Tuluk but as I mentioned above, it's a lot harder to organize and execute (especially regularly) than it might seem at first glance.

If you want to see what happens when you take two groups and have them fight over territory, look at the attrition rate in the Labyrinth.


On the subject of how the north feels after the change:
It feels inhabited, but I found the odds of encountering more than one or two people at a given time were slim.

[Synthesis]

If you want to see what happens when you take two groups and have them fight over territory, look at the attrition rate in the Labyrinth.

I doubt east vs. west PK as cause-of-death in the 'rinth is particularly high.  I'd guess most 'rinthers die to the particularly unforgiving NPCs, southside crime-code, or jail ganks.

[Armaddict]

If you want to see what happens when you take two groups and have them fight over territory, look at the attrition rate in the Labyrinth.

I doubt east vs. west PK as cause-of-death in the 'rinth is particularly high.  I'd guess most 'rinthers die to the particularly unforgiving NPCs, southside crime-code, or jail ganks.

Summed up as 'treating the labyrinth as a skill grind happy hunting ground'.

The ones who don't think of that way tend to last a very long time.

[HavokBlue]

I think you're underestimating how eager and willing some people can be to kill other PCs.

I have had more than one fresh Rinthi PC attacked a few rooms from his spawn point while I was setting up my prompt.

[RogueGunslinger]

I think you're underestimating how eager and willing some people can be to kill other PCs.

I have had more than one fresh Rinthi PC attacked a few rooms from his spawn point while I was setting up my prompt.

This is so far from normal in the 'rinth. Far more likely to think you were attacked by NPC's, but you're smart enough to know the difference, so I'd just say you're unlucky. I've played in the 'rinth numerous times(over 20 pc's), was only pk'd there once by a half-giant, because I did something stupid on a breed. Sent him kudos for it.

[Clearsighted]

Like most other posters here though, I'm sad to see Tuluk go. I always felt there was opportunity for conflict between the cities which had never quite been realized. To this day I'll never understand why there weren't regular skirmishes in the wilderness between Naki templar patrols and Tuluki templar patrols (if there were any at all).

So that is why you didn't get templar-lead skirmishes between the city-states. Staff didn't want it, and absent pleasing staff with their initiative, the players of templars themselves are generally not hot on haring off into the wastes so someone can pincushion them. This restricted true conflict to highly elaborate RPTs where you had a good change of getting crushed by gicker artillery or 'units' of NPCs in blinding combat spam.

As a point of contention, there -were- player led attacks on the enemy cities and surrounding lands upwards of seven times in the last year alone. These were attacks led by actual PC Templars dealing with actual PC military and auxiliaries. These were not staff pushed events, either.

I'm sorry I missed that. One of my goals was to witness a templar vs templar fight at one time in my Armageddon career.

[BadSkeelz]

The Templar vs Templar fights mostly consisted of them sending their ranger lackeys to shoot arrows or throw knives at each other.

This is still off topic. Make a new thread for "why the war sucks/why the war is awesome" if you really want to talk about it.

[AdamBlue]

It says there are more people online.
I'm not seeing it in Allanak. I guess more people just moved to another place that wasn't Allanak after Tuluk closed? Oh well, that was expected.

[Malken]

It says there are more people online.
I'm not seeing it in Allanak. I guess more people just moved to another place that wasn't Allanak after Tuluk closed? Oh well, that was expected.

...

Really? The Gaj is like always crazy full of PCs.

[Talia]

It says there are more people online.
I'm not seeing it in Allanak. I guess more people just moved to another place that wasn't Allanak after Tuluk closed? Oh well, that was expected.

Usually about 2/3 of the players online are in Allanak now. It could be that you are not looking in the right location.

[HavokBlue]

disappointed with how hard it is to hire good minions in Tuluk now

[Tuannon]

They are all hiding out.. in the trees..

[FantasyWriter]

After years and years of Tuluki tree hugger jokes....

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

The Gaj jumps now. Yesterday the bar was full at five servertime. Red's seems to have stayed exactly the same, strangely enough. Maybe because it takes longer to craft a pc that's going to sit in there.