Lamenting things I haven't been able to play...

[Asmoth]

I wish I could have played:
A halfling
A mantis
Either Northern Templar.

I hope in the future I can play:
A southern Templar
A sorcerer
A psionicist that lives longer than three days rl.

[Majikal]

I wish I could have played a halfling or a gith, their documentation was pretty rad and they had a lot of neat code twerks that applied to them. I don't think that plot that got rid of the halflings was worth removing the halflings. =(

I hope in the future I can play... A Red Fang again, or any revamped tribe that has some promise (like atv). I'd also be interested in a psionic but I don't even entertain the thought that it'll ever happen even via spec app.

[palomar]

I wish I could have played a Dune Stalker or in the Haruch Kemad (was offered a role in 2005 but had to turn it down..)

I hope in the future I can play an Akai Sjir. Lots of other ideas, but they're mostly reasonable/realistic.

[HavokBlue]

I'm sad about not being able to play a Red Fang because they were my first real "Armageddon" encounter in the desert.

[Clearsighted]

I wish I could have played:
A halfling
A mantis
Either Northern Templar.

I hope in the future I can play:
A southern Templar
A sorcerer
A psionicist that lives longer than three days rl.

If it's any consolation, all of those roles are less fun and more hard work than they appear.

Southern Templars are great, and I have much respect for people willing to make that time investment. Some of the best PCs ever have been really well realized southern templars. The bad ones never last. A truly intimidating RL investment, though, to do it right.

Psionics would have to get the same recent treatment that sorcs have, to ever really catch my interest.

I both like the recent change to sorcs, and miss the old ones. It was nice to know that there was some truly awful PC monster roaming around out there. I wish they'd kept it, as like a karma 10, 1-2 allowed at a time like thing. I'd never want to play one (imagine the pressure of solo emoting all the goddamn time), but I like knowing they're out there somewhere.

I'm sad about not being able to play a Red Fang because they were my first real "Armageddon" encounter in the desert.

Something I can unreservedly agree with you on. I miss the Red Fangs. I played a few. (That probably surprises no one). Most fun I ever had as a tribal. Always something to do. Amazing leadership.

[Rokal]

For me, its kind things I hope to play one day far in the future.

Northern templar (if tuluk reopens)

Sorcerer (Can you blame me? They sound awesomely fun)

Elkrosian (Lightning mage? yes please. Lightning/energy is my favorite magic to Rp about in any fantasy setting)

Distanly, I'm definetly going to try a tribal or delf out in the future - but not a top thing on my mind, most likely ATV.

For now, I am just loving exploring the game, every near death experience, or crazy moment is a moment to remember.

[Pale Horse]

I, too, am mildly regretful that I will not get to experience an old-style Sorcerer.  Not really for the ability to "mon-un-wreckyershit" the Known, but to just to say I had.  I've played a large number of magickers and the social-stratification is bad enough without being the top of the handful of "kill on hint of suspicion" guilds.

Same goes for playing a Psionicist.  Every time I've put in a special app for one, I've been told that my request can't be fulfilled due to too many of them being IG at the time 

I am not lamenting this too deeply, though.  If you want to get involved in any number of plots, mundanes are where it's at.  You have the potential to be the minion or the leader without the expectations everyone else heaps on you when they find out you're a Sorcerer/Psion/Nilazi/Mul, etc.  Sure, you can be the minion/beta/second-in-command as any character or guild, but it's like having a Quest Marker hovering over your head every time you login and the few who know what you are bump into you.

Sometimes "evil" just wants to chill, you know?

[hopeandsorrow]

I too regret never being able to get the chance to play a real Sorcerer.

Should of played more and pushed harder for karma or something...

[Bushranger]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryDOy3AosBw

I wish too, but I'm looking forward to the things I will be able to play!

[wizturbo]

I would have enjoyed playing a full sorcerer too, but within a tribal environment.

I also regret not having played at least one Tuluki PC...Tek's will is strong with me, but I feel like I've missed a huge part of the game!

[Clearsighted]

I would have enjoyed playing a full sorcerer too, but within a tribal environment.

I also regret not having played at least one Tuluki PC...Tek's will is strong with me, but I feel like I've missed a huge part of the game!

You can still play a Tuluki PC. I've been seriously considering making an embittered, lumberjack patriot of the 'wars of southern aggression', and raiding the southlands, with my next PC.

[Is Friday]

I would have enjoyed playing a full sorcerer too, but within a tribal environment.

I also regret not having played at least one Tuluki PC...Tek's will is strong with me, but I feel like I've missed a huge part of the game!

Holy shit you've been playing for over a decade and never tried a Tuluki? Ahahahaha.

[Cind]

I wish I could have played a halfling, but alas. At least there's a few lord of the rings based games out there.

I kind of wish I could have a warrior/nomad in the Byn right now, for some reason. Or a burglar/nomad. But that's the fate of people who can survive for more than ten RL days, you can't play every concept you want.

[wizturbo]

Holy shit you've been playing for over a decade and never tried a Tuluki? Ahahahaha.

I know, it's crazy.  I've spent a fair amount of time in Tuluk when I played in the Tan Muark, but that's obviously a lot different than playing an actual Tuluki citizen.  I tend to have very long lived characters, so there's a remarkable amount of stuff I haven't experienced yet.  Also, I've played a lot of magickers, so Tuluk hasn't been a popular destination for me for very IC reasons .

[FantasyWriter]

Gith.
True Sorcerer.

That is all.

[Clearsighted]

Gith.
True Sorcerer.

That is all.

Gith would be fantastic.

[Armaddict]

Back in the day you could special app for custom skillsets and conditions and whatnot, as long as your player concept was good and you would contribute to the game with it in some way.  For example, Smoky once played a Cenyrian Merchant who was going to run glass goods back and forth, and we designed some special items as wares, and it was approved, and I played as his half-giant bodyguard with customed glass-sharded armor and a big monster flail.

I never did the app, but I wanted to play an undead warrior who had a small sandstorm that followed him everywhere he went, and wouldn't plan on it surviving longer than 5 or 6 days of playing time.  Basically an RPT character for whenever I was logged in and raiding around the city.  I'd still like to play that. XD

[RogueGunslinger]

Well, in that vein I've always wanted to play an immortal character. Doesn't age. Lived since the beginning of the dragon, has first-hand experience of events throughout history. Has normal +hp  but has -hp that can drop all the way to -200 before he dies completely. Burning or dismemberment kill him. Knows almost all languages.

Totally cynical, self-preserving, and arrogant. Builds elaborate lies to cover up his immortality, runs off to build a new life in some other part of the world whenever people might catch on that he doesn't get older.

See how long I can make it before I get before people catch on that there's something not right and see where that takes me.

[HavokBlue]

When I was a newbie, I desperately wanted to spec-app a mutant desert elf that could burrow and had anakore claws instead of weapons.

The odds of that happening dawned on me and I gave it up.


But one day...

[whitt]

Like... every role call that comes up, when I'm loving my current PC?

[BadSkeelz]

I would have liked to experience House Tor on my first character.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I wish I had played a Benjari when they were open. It seemed, from my experiences dealing with them from the outside, that they were or had the potential to be something awesome - right up my alley. The only tribal clan I ever wanted to play in.

I would have liked to have successfully played a full sorcerer too.

[Tetra]

Things I want to play:

an inanimate object that can speak to the person who holds me.

a bastard who actually isn't a bastard, but a child of a secret tryst and was never legitimized.

a blind painter that can make masterpiece portraits by touching someone's face.

a southern Templar that uses the power of song to destroy their enemies.

a mutant that can manipulate their own bones and skeletal structure(Wolverine?)

[Clearsighted]

Well, in that vein I've always wanted to play an immortal character. Doesn't age. Lived since the beginning of the dragon, has first-hand experience of events throughout history. Has normal +hp  but has -hp that can drop all the way to -200 before he dies completely. Burning or dismemberment kill him. Knows almost all languages.

Totally cynical, self-preserving, and arrogant. Builds elaborate lies to cover up his immortality, runs off to build a new life in some other part of the world whenever people might catch on that he doesn't get older.

See how long I can make it before I get before people catch on that there's something not right and see where that takes me.

He'd be more likely to live if he could go to -200 stun.

[HavokBlue]

Things I want to play:

an inanimate object that can speak to the person who holds me.

a bastard who actually isn't a bastard, but a child of a secret tryst and was never legitimized.

a blind painter that can make masterpiece portraits by touching someone's face.

a southern Templar that uses the power of song to destroy their enemies.

a mutant that can manipulate their own bones and skeletal structure(Wolverine?)

Isn't that the definition of a bastard?...

[Clearsighted]

I wish I had played a Benjari when they were open. It seemed, from my experiences dealing with them from the outside, that they were or had the potential to be something awesome - right up my alley. The only tribal clan I ever wanted to play in.

I would have liked to have successfully played a full sorcerer too.

Benjari were by far, my favorite human tribe. I played a couple.

[Tetra]

Things I want to play:

an inanimate object that can speak to the person who holds me.

a bastard who actually isn't a bastard, but a child of a secret tryst and was never legitimized.

a blind painter that can make masterpiece portraits by touching someone's face.

a southern Templar that uses the power of song to destroy their enemies.

a mutant that can manipulate their own bones and skeletal structure(Wolverine?)

Isn't that the definition of a bastard?...

I mean a secret tryst with another noble!  okay, how about....a noble who is actually a bastard?

[bracken]

A beetle like That kank.
In an East side permatribe.

[Saellyn]

Things I want to play:

an inanimate object that can speak to the person who holds me.

a bastard who actually isn't a bastard, but a child of a secret tryst and was never legitimized.

a blind painter that can make masterpiece portraits by touching someone's face.

a southern Templar that uses the power of song to destroy their enemies.

a mutant that can manipulate their own bones and skeletal structure(Wolverine?)

Tetra you're thinking of Kimimaro from Naruto, born of the Kaguya clan.

[WarriorPoet]

Gith. I played a halfling briefly. Meh. Gith would be the ticket. Early on I remember reading the docs that talked about gith using storytelling competitions to settle grudges and things like that and it really stood out to me through the years. It helped me to remember these swarms of gith weren't just slavering wild animals. Behind their violence and NPC blandness, there is a culture out there, savage and primitive but developed.

Mul or mindbender, but eh. I've lived without this long. Sorcerer too.

The only Tuluki character I had that lived long enough to get really involved was in Undertuluk, so I kinda wish I'd played a Legion or House character. Plenty of time spent in tuluk, just never as a Northie. Southern forever.

Never played a noble or officer of anything, never really cared to.

My Tan Muark were a fucking blaaaaaaast though and always wanted to do another.

[Tuannon]

Oashi Elite and a Kuraci Fist are the last things on my list.

Pretty burned out right now though, so chances of that are minimal at best.

[Malken]

I played gith and halflings and sorcerers.. The most retarded role I've ever attempted was a mindbender, though. Man, talk about fucking up in every possible ways.

[TheWanderer]

I'd have liked to play a full sorcerer that guards a small bridge and asks a series of questions with varying degrees of difficulty -- a wrong answer entails death. Some would also call him Tim. >.>

[Clearsighted]

I played gith and halflings and sorcerers.. The most retarded role I've ever attempted was a mindbender, though. Man, talk about fucking up in every possible ways.

If you could bring back, gith, halflings or old style sorcs, which would it be, Malk?

[Malken]

I played gith and halflings and sorcerers.. The most retarded role I've ever attempted was a mindbender, though. Man, talk about fucking up in every possible ways.

If you could bring back, gith, halflings or old style sorcs, which would it be, Malk?

Sorry, but none of them. Gith and halflings only sound interesting because no one can play them, but they don't really fit as a playable race in my opinion. They are either too alien or too hostile to bring anything but your average bad guy that you might run into while riding out. The moment you allow them to be playable again, people will soon realize how restricting they are and they'll be demanding more "freedom" to be added to the race, or this and that and it'll never end.

I'm all for a new "baddie-type" new playable race being slowly introduced, tho, that'd be awesome and refreshing.

As for sorcerers, I don't really mind if they come back or not, but that's not a class I would (or could) properly play again, since it requires a certain.. Dedicating your life to Arm type of commitment that I just don't have anymore.

I don't know enough about the new sorcerers (and I don't think I've bumped into any yet) to make a fair comment on them.

[Clearsighted]

I played gith and halflings and sorcerers.. The most retarded role I've ever attempted was a mindbender, though. Man, talk about fucking up in every possible ways.

If you could bring back, gith, halflings or old style sorcs, which would it be, Malk?

Sorry, but none of them. Gith and halflings only sound interesting because no one can play them, but they don't really fit as a playable race in my opinion. They are either too alien or too hostile to bring anything but your average bad guy that you might run into while riding out. The moment you allow them to be playable again, people will soon realize how restricting they are and they'll be demanding more "freedom" to be added to the race, or this and that and it'll never end.

I'm all for a new "baddie-type" new playable race being slowly introduced, tho, that'd be awesome and refreshing.

As for sorcerers, I don't really mind if they come back or not, but that's not a class I would (or could) properly play again, since it requires a certain.. Dedicating your life to Arm type of commitment that I just don't have anymore.

I don't know enough about the new sorcerers (and I don't think I've bumped into any yet) to make a fair comment on them.

That's a very valuable opinion, coming from someone that's been there. If you don't mind my asking, what was the feeling like, being a gith, that is centrally located, essentially in the middle of the playerbase (between Luirs, Nak and the Pah/Delves essentially), with potentially hostile players all around you, vs being a halfling, tucked away in the forest where noone sane went? Was that fun, or just stressful to you? Or did it end up making no difference?

That's what I always felt made gith essentially not an iso-clan, given they're right in everyone's way, but I could be wrong about that.

[Rhyden]

Think I can safely say I've played everything I've wanted to.

I even played a gortok once in 2010. That was pretty cool, and pretty lonely, until I got hunted down by someone who probably thought I was just a one-eyed, staff-animated npc gortok.

[Cind]

I've always wanted to play an elkrosian.

Playing a stormer mindbender or nilazi would be really neat.

Playing a drovian would be cool too.

[FantasyWriter]

I've played two Nilazi.
One got PKd in about four hours played (rinth).  Most painful spec app loss ever. 
One lived a decent amount of time hidden away in Allanak proper, but I was playing from my phone at work, and though I was safely tucked away in my apartment after a brief period of AFKness. Start practicing a spell and turns out I'm in the plaza outside Red's Retreat and panic-fled away from the guards after I realized that that was indeed NOT a half giant soldier in my apartment.  I may have punched myself.

I would like to do one again one day.

[Cind]

I may get a chance to play (wanted thing) after all, but... alas, the torment of the long-lived where you can't play a bunch of concepts in a short amount of time.

[Clearsighted]

I even played a gortok once in 2010. That was pretty cool, and pretty lonely, until I got hunted down by someone who probably thought I was just a one-eyed, staff-animated npc gortok.

That's so sad. Was it the tall, muscular man named Amos?

Might've had better luck with a rantarri.

[Pale Horse]

I even played a gortok once in 2010. That was pretty cool, and pretty lonely, until I got hunted down by someone who probably thought I was just a one-eyed, staff-animated npc gortok.

That's so sad. Was it the tall, muscular man named Amos?

Might've had better luck with a rantarri.

Playing a rat is where it's at, I am given to understand.

[MeTekillot]

Never got to play out my idea of fraternal twin Jihaens, where one of them defects to Allanak.

Clenching his fist then pointing at the brown-haired, svelte protagonist templar, the broad-shouldered, flowing-blonde Jihaen Templar says in tatlum:
     "BROTHER!"

[jstorrie]

I wish I could have played more characters in 2006.

[AdamBlue]

I've always wanted to play a sorcerer that, once at 'optimum power' didn't try to summon death into the world or commit grand murder, but instead spent his time traveling from place to place, from all of the tribal areas to Red Storm and Luirs and maybe even poking his head into Tuluk or Allanak once in a blue moon, and just solving problems for people.
"You got a rogue elementalist destroying shit? Perfect. I'll take care of him." Then gobble gobble, elementalist devoured, life continues.
I'd try to have him feed off of the life of criminals and raiders if possible, and occasionally the land itself in cases of dire bad times.

[Revenant]

Mindbender/crafting subguild.
mul ranger, hopefully protector subguild.
Nilazi.
Rogue Krathi.
Rogue Drovian.

[Asmoth]

I actually want to play a Sorcerer more now with the change than before.

My only fear is that if I ever can play my Ranger magick subguild is that I'll go and die damn near immediately because of x reason.

[Delirium]

Full sorcerers were a brutal, brutal grind and terrifying to skill up without being discovered if you went the entirely wilderness route (which I did).  Constant movement to avoid being tracked down (and frequent narrow escapes), and then when I finally did find a relatively safe hideout I was always afraid of a run-in with other mages who might report me. After 20 days played I had finally unlocked "reasonably badass" status and was set to fully pursue some of my character's loftier goals when the announcement came down that full sorcerers were being axed. Hours and hours and hours of solo roleplay. All for naught.

Sucked, man. One of the plusses of the "new" sorcerers is the removal of that necessity to remain almost entirely sequestered from the playerbase while getting to the "breakpoint" of survivability. There was a certain period with the old-school sorcerers where you were simply the squishiest person alive until you manage to get past that awful, awful starting grind, and I think that's where most people got impatient and died or stored.

Once you got past that point though, the sheer flexibility, problem-solving, and capability of the guild was unbeatable. It was a lot of fun.. for about two weeks.

[Malken]

Full sorcerers were a brutal, brutal grind and terrifying to skill up without being discovered if you went the entirely wilderness route (which I did).  Constant movement to avoid being tracked down (and frequent narrow escapes), and then when I finally did find a relatively safe hideout I was always afraid of a run-in with other mages who might report me. After 20 days played I had finally unlocked "reasonably badass" status and was set to fully pursue some of my character's loftier goals when the announcement came down that full sorcerers were being axed. Hours and hours and hours of solo roleplay. All for naught.

Huh.. I'd thought that they would have allowed you to play your full sorcerers even if future ones were axed.

I would have been mighty miffed if I were you.

[Asmoth]

Full sorcerers were a brutal, brutal grind and terrifying to skill up without being discovered if you went the entirely wilderness route (which I did).  Constant movement to avoid being tracked down (and frequent narrow escapes), and then when I finally did find a relatively safe hideout I was always afraid of a run-in with other mages who might report me. After 20 days played I had finally unlocked "reasonably badass" status and was set to fully pursue some of my character's loftier goals when the announcement came down that full sorcerers were being axed. Hours and hours and hours of solo roleplay. All for naught.

Sucked, man. One of the plusses of the "new" sorcerers is the removal of that necessity to remain almost entirely sequestered from the playerbase while getting to the "breakpoint" of survivability. There was a certain period with the old-school sorcerers where you were simply the squishiest person alive until you manage to get past that awful, awful starting grind, and I think that's where most people got impatient and died or stored.

Once you got past that point though, the sheer flexibility, problem-solving, and capability of the guild was unbeatable. It was a lot of fun.. for about two weeks.

Wait, you had to store because of the change that happened after your sorcerer was in game??

[Delirium]

Huh.. I'd thought that they would have allowed you to play your full sorcerers even if future ones were axed.

I would have been mighty miffed if I were you.

Well, it was storage or switch to one of the new guild / subguild options, but since the latter option would require ret-conning her entire story, I decided to store.

I was disappointed, yes. I said as much. But I'd already learned that there was no arguing with staff decisions once they were made.

Edit:
To note, staff seem to have learned from that experience, at least from what I've seen of their considerate and thoughtful treatment of the characters affected by the closure of Tuluk.

[Nyr]

There is quite a bit of equivalency in what we offered to players of the old-style sorcerer system and what we offered to players in Tuluk.

For sorcerers:
We announced the change a couple of weeks in advance to the players of sorcerers to give them time to process the change and deal with it because it was a major paradigm change for their play.
You could keep playing the character, but your guild and subguild would need to change. 
If playing the same character wasn't feasible or you did not wish to keep playing the same character, we would store the PC.
At the time, we expected players to engage in dialogue with staff about what would work best for them.

For Tuluki players:
We announced the change a couple of weeks in advance to give players time to process the change and deal with it because it was a major paradigm change for the entire game and not just their immediate characters.
If your role allows it, you can keep playing the character, but your locale of play would need to change.
If playing the same character wasn't feasible or you did not wish to keep playing the same character, we would store the PC.
At the time, we expected players to engage in dialogue with staff about what would work best for them.

The only major difference I notice here is that the Tuluk announcement required a great deal of discussion with players in advance as it affected more players.  The smaller number of (approximately 4) old-style sorcerer PCs were easier to engage with directly via e-mail without involving the rest of the playerbase.  We were prepared to discuss in both cases specific plot options that might have worked.

[BadSkeelz]

Good god there were four sorcerers in the game at that time?

[Nyr]

Good god there were four sorcerers in the game at that time?

I recall there being four e-mails sent out, but I don't remember if all four were active.

[Malken]

Good god there were four sorcerers in the game at that time?

That's like three more than Tuluki players at the time heh heh heh *highfive*

[Delirium]

This is the email I received.

Greetings,

We've moved away from having full sorcerers in the game and have changed them over to being subguilds.  As part of that we're having all full sorcerers pick a new guild/subguild appropriate to their character concept.

We'll take how far along your character is currently branched and apply that to updating your character after making the guild/subguild conversion.

The primary guild of your character can be any non-casting guild, while your subguild can be any of the following:

http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Enlightenment%20Magick
http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Enchantment%20Magick
http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Movement%20Magick
http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Combat%20Magick

That certainly did not seem to invite dialogue. That was "this is what it is, choose or store."

You can argue that I could have initiated dialogue, but why would I want to do that when it's obvious that

a) I can't change staff's mind
b) choosing a new guild/subguild for my character would have made absolutely no sense unless I retconned her entire existence

As I've said before, though in a more tongue-in-cheek fashion - you guys really need to work on your PR sometimes.

I wasn't trying to start a debate, merely expressing my disappointment but stating a positive in that the Tuluk closure was handled better.

[Delirium]

Good god there were four sorcerers in the game at that time?

I guarantee you that most sorcerers died very, very quickly. Or somewhat quickly. Or went inactive. Out of that four, it's a safe bet that only two or three were active and maybe one or two were capable of being more than bug food. The role of a sorcerer is (was) tough, I really can't overstate that. The ones that are stupid get caught really quickly. Generally the ones that are super badass when discovered have been around so long that it's just a matter of time before someone finally outs them and they're forced to go public renegade.

[Nyr]

Good point.

I mentioned this at the time, as this was our expectation on staff at the time:

What would you recommend for the future?

Create an engaging and IC story for those who will be affected by the change that will either lead to their PCs logically easing into whatever transition is deemed necessary or writing their stories to whatever conclusion there may be (death/storage).

That way you create fun for the player to ease what will inevitably feel like a punishment.

I don't think this would have been out of the question if requested/discussed with staff, but I could be wrong.

The PCs running those sorcerers were left holding a bag of shit with no real logical way to move forward with their characters.

In that particular situation, I think one possible option would be responding with discussion or thoughts on moving forward with said bag of shit, if possible.

We assumed too much then--that players in such a position would know to (or want to) reach back out if they had issues.  You're right, it's better to specify as much as possible in advance.

[Is Friday]

I think that is a communication issue situation I have (recently) dealt with. Overall I feel that my staff did a good job once the dialogue began. Up until that point it was just frustration.

I see this as something that was a trend but has (over time and with a lot of effort) become less frequent. The case where I see this happening the most are roles with expectations on them. E.G. sorceror, magicker, leaders, etc.

[Delirium]

Or you (collective you) could say "sorry about that, we could have handled that better", but I guess that's too much to ask.

I really wasn't intending to start a debate or point fingers, I was actually trying to be positive.

I guess you couldn't stand to leave it at "gee, maybe we did screw up" and just had to post a response which shifted the blame back onto the player. I can safely say it is my interactions with staff which have left me so thoroughly disenchanted with the game these days.

I'm out, thanks.

[bcw81]

Moderated some things. Please keep it civil in here guys.

[Is Friday]

Looked civil to me. Just didn't make certain people look good.

[Nyr]

Unmoderated some things.

Sorry about that, it wasn't my intention to create a kerfuffle about this.  I started by saying you have a good point.  I then showed what our reasoning was at the time.  I then pointed out how that reasoning was flawed.  I then pointed out that you were right--that as much as possible needed to be specified in advance.

As this may have upset you, let me add:

Gee, maybe we did screw up.  Sorry about that, we could have handled that better.

The intention is definitely not to shift blame onto the player.  We do expect players to communicate with staff when there are issues, but we need to communicate well from our side first.

[Revenant]

This makes me sad. I can only imagine what the players of sorcs were going through at the time. Knowing how hard it is to even get a spec app in for a krathi or drovian without having your concept shot to pieces and your previous RP nitpicked has pretty much convinced me I will never be able to play these roles, much less a sorcerer, psionicist or mul. That's ok with me, I can accept and deal with the fact that no one trusts me to handle those roles, and that no matter how engaging I try to be, it will never be enough to overcome these barriers. However, I don't think it's wise to roughly handle those who, not only have proven themselves worthy of such roles, but also invested the time and effort into making them viable, with a flat-out statement that, these changes will be made to your character, shooting your concept to shit, deal with it.

I admit I'm intrigued by the quarter-sorc concept and want to play one. However, the whole sorc-subguild idea was originally four karma, which seemed like something maybe someday I could play and experiment with. Once it was opened to the public it got bumped way out of my range, I guess it was a balance issue and I can understand that. But this isn't about me. My personal opinion is that those playing sorcerers at the time should have been allowed to play out their concept as it was originally designed, knowing that they would be the last, at least, for a while, to be able to do so. Removing the option from play for players who have managed to gather the necessary trust with staff, -as- they're playing it, is like saying, "We trust you. Wait, no, actually, we don't trust you, hand that back.". Knowing that people who've invested so many years of their life in acquiring that level of trust from staff, only to get the rug yanked out from under them, is not very encouraging to even try to get to that point. It doesn't set a good example for newer players.

I mean, in the end, I understand why what was done was done, and support it, I just think the players of sorcs could have been handled a little gentler, and allowed to finish up playing their concept, taking as much time as necessary to do so. I'm not saying what I'm saying to be mean, I really do want the best for everyone involved. What has been done cannot be undone, but there will be more changes in the future, perhaps they can be handled a little differently.

[BadSkeelz]

I would have liked to have played a warrior before the "defense nerf," whatever that was.

[RogueGunslinger]

I would have liked to have played a warrior before the "defense nerf," whatever that was.

I think warriors were less powerful compared to other guilds because of that change. Though I'm not even sure there was really ever a defense nerf. Staff have denied it if I remember correctly.

[Malken]

I would have liked to have played a warrior before the "defense nerf," whatever that was.

I think warriors were less powerful compared to other guilds because of that change. Though I'm not even sure there was really ever a defense nerf. Staff have denied it if I remember correctly.

It's not so much a a defense "nerd" as it was the addition of a mega penalty to your defense the more pcs or npcs were attacking you. That's what people are talking about when they mention the defense nerf. It was made public when that happened.

[Talia]

It's not so much a a defense "nerd"

lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

I just got the best image of, like, Synthesis playing this squinty-eyed warrior guy who goes around pulling up his pants to above his waist and criticizing other warriors' defensive styles in a very technical manner.

[BadSkeelz]

That's kind of how I imagine Tor Scorpions, really.

[Ender]

Unmoderated some things.

Sorry about that, it wasn't my intention to create a kerfuffle about this.  I started by saying you have a good point.  I then showed what our reasoning was at the time.  I then pointed out how that reasoning was flawed.  I then pointed out that you were right--that as much as possible needed to be specified in advance.

As this may have upset you, let me add:

Gee, maybe we did screw up.  Sorry about that, we could have handled that better.

The intention is definitely not to shift blame onto the player.  We do expect players to communicate with staff when there are issues, but we need to communicate well from our side first.

I wanted to thank you for posting this Nyr.  As a player, I often have grievances over how I think something is handled, but many times I feel like I have to pick my battles.  The reason for this is (imagined or not) there's a feeling that as a player I have everything to lose and little to gain when I'm upset about how staff has handled or is handling something.

I even had accusations thrown at me that I never bothered to dispute because I just felt like there was nothing to gain by trying to clear my name.

Armageddon creates a lot of strong emotions in its players as we put in a great deal of time, energy, and emotion into our characters and become very attached to them for better or worse.


Because of all this, I think it's absolutely paramount that Staffers open that dialogue first.  As staff, you seemingly have no risk in dealing with a player, so coming out and saying "yes, we are open to your ideas, nothing is off limits to discuss" will open the floodgates for creativity and discussion in situations like this when otherwise a player may feel too daunted to want to even risk disputing a staff decision.

[Is Friday]

Thanks Nyr. We won't call you Nyrbama anymore.

[palomar]

I would have liked to have played a warrior before the "defense nerf," whatever that was.

I think warriors were less powerful compared to other guilds because of that change. Though I'm not even sure there was really ever a defense nerf. Staff have denied it if I remember correctly.

It's not so much a a defense "nerd" as it was the addition of a mega penalty to your defense the more pcs or npcs were attacking you. That's what people are talking about when they mention the defense nerf. It was made public when that happened.

There was also something back in 2006-ish about parry not working as intended and it was eventually fixed, with the result that PCs of some guilds weren't as defensively strong as they had been. Maybe that's the defense nerf, I dunno.

Back on topic, I think I would have enjoyed playing an Anyali/Plainsfolk PC. Always liked their accent.

[Revenant]

Yeah, I should add, I highly approve of the way staff is communicating these days, although my communication skills could use some work... Having come from a PvP mud that could have just been called "Grief" and gotten away with it, even my favorite staffers on that game, who would talk to me on the regular, would still hurl exploding shit from outer space at my character's head without a moment's thought. Good thing it wasn't an RPI. Without some outside perspective on how other admins on other games deal with "issues", I don't think I'd be able to fully appreciate how hard you folks are trying to make things work (which could lead me to misread the tone of responses), though this is not a criticism of them either, as their style of communication is what works for their game. I've sent in my kudos to the staff here for that (with different wording), but if I don't voice it publicly, people may think I'm just being negative for the sake of it, and that's not healthy for anyone.

So yeah, staff, not mad, appreciate the effort a good deal more than you may know, just, speaking my thoughts.

[Asmoth]

This makes me sad. I can only imagine what the players of sorcs were going through at the time. Knowing how hard it is to even get a spec app in for a krathi or drovian without having your concept shot to pieces and your previous RP nitpicked has pretty much convinced me I will never be able to play these roles, much less a sorcerer, psionicist or mul. That's ok with me, I can accept and deal with the fact that no one trusts me to handle those roles, and that no matter how engaging I try to be, it will never be enough to overcome these barriers....

I will say that they seem to be more optimistic on special apps lately at least from my point of view.

I was given a max point spec app recently and honestly had anticipated failure on that regard when I created the app, but was pleasantly surprised.

Now I was relegated to a certain type of what I was, but seeing as I hadn't played one before that was fine.  So I enjoyed the role and thank them for letting me do it.

Now I have been in the past super impulsive and defensive to criticism about role play and corrections of it, I used to think that every single skilled action required an emote and that every single action required a thought. I now use emotes and thoughts but not as much as I thought they wanted to when I received negative feedback forever ago about my skill skill skill type of playing without any actions from my character.

Take magickers for instance, you can get spells that literally can end a players life in one casting, regardless of how strong or old they are, they need to know you're not going to skill up that spell and murder everyone who insults you in the gaj or whatever.

Plus some of the special karma classes can literally fuck over all sorts of plots of the common men and you have to know how to do that in a way that's not HAH I IZ MINDBENDER AND YOU IS MY SLAVE!

So it's not hard to get special apps if you prove an understanding of the delicate balance that is required in their use and ultimately not play them with the sole purpose of griefing others (exclusively).

That's why on higher karma roles they ask things like wish up when you're gonna murder someone, that way they can at least watch or I imagine subtly nudge you in another direction if that is a bad idea or whatever.

I do think that karma needs to be a little more freely given and then taken as needed, as it tends to be a little more You're Guilty Of Potentially Doing this role wrong than "Hey we need to give him some rope and see if he hangs himself or builds a nice basket."

But I have to imagine that's because staff has been burned countless times.

[Jihelu]

Ah...
I've always had dreams of dumb characters.
(My posts about rainbow fire surely haven't given people that idea rite?)

Something along the lines of making a character based around DIO. Some sort of warrior/enhancement or full sorcerer that would just punch people to death. Also would need cannibal script. (Bonus points if he regains mana by eating people)

[Revenant]

Good point, Asmoth. Personally, I usually look for ways around murdering other characters, and when it's inevitable, I try to drag it out as long as possible, and not just use the code, but make the experience a heavily psychological one for the other player, so that when it does happen, they know the why, they know how, who, they likely even know it's coming long before it happens. I like to turn mercy on, so I can give them at least a few emotes before finishing the job, though they're likely unconscious... and I then lament having to do it, for a long time. I'm not the type to walk into the Gaj and blow everyone up, though, waving a knife and declaring that everyone in the room is going to die by my hand, someday, is something I would totally do (and have done, more than once), and probably never follow up on.

Also, just killing other characters is kind of, not fun in my opinion. If there's no dialogue, no threats, no hints, you give the other player no way to adjust their character's behavior slightly so that maybe there's another option available, nor do you give your character the chance to hear another side of the story that may sway them to alter themselves. In a perma-death mud, PKing is a last resort for someone like me. Despite being a certain type of player, I can appreciate all the work others put into their characters, their social contacts, lifetime achievements, story telling, exploration and learning, and prefer to help (and also explore these activities myself), rather than hinder, the process. Because in the end, the story is the most important, not my story, not someone else's, but the overall outcome and the ripples generated from it. Character growth, to me, is much more important than "winning".

[Synthesis]

I would have liked to have played a warrior before the "defense nerf," whatever that was.

I think warriors were less powerful compared to other guilds because of that change. Though I'm not even sure there was really ever a defense nerf. Staff have denied it if I remember correctly.

It's not so much a a defense "nerd" as it was the addition of a mega penalty to your defense the more pcs or npcs were attacking you. That's what people are talking about when they mention the defense nerf. It was made public when that happened.

The defense nerf and the multiple-attackers penalty are two different things.

The way things were, everything had a much, much, much higher effective base defense (i.e. chance to dodge an attack).  It was much easier to train up your weapon skills, because generating failures was easy.  (However, there were no branched weapon skills, so maxing out your weapon skills wasn't a huge deal.)  Warriors (especially d-elves) could attain fairly ridiculous levels of defensiveness, because there were fewer attacks that made it to the level of parry and shield-use skill checks.  I'm pretty sure there were sparring matches between skilled warriors that could stretch on for RL days before someone had to flee, if no commands were used.  On the other hand, there was also no stamina penalty for using combat commands, so kicking everything to death was a viable option.  (Also, you could regenerate health while sitting during combat, so you could recover hp on bash failures, kick reversals, or after getting bashed, heh.)

Non-fighter guilds were also much more viable as small-game hunters out of the box.  At the time of the defense nerf, I was playing a d-elf merchant in the ATV, and I'd go out and kill my own duskhorn, ritikki, etc.  When they implemented the nerf, it completely put a stop to that.  (I intensely sparred with my last merchant...and I'm -pretty- sure that he could've taken a scrab while etwo'ing...but ain't nobody gonna put that to the test on a fully-branched merchant.) Magickers were also not quite such glass cannons, although a bunch of them got reworked, so maybe their mojo is stronger now to compensate, or whatever.

But overall...yeah.  The nerf made it somewhat easier for anyone to PK anyone in straight melee, and warriors were somewhat greater beneficiaries of that effect.  I was bent out of shape about it at the time because it meant that my PC (in what was almost an iso-clan at the time) was stuck inside the stupid camp doing nothing because now he was about as tough as wet tissue paper...but I suppose everything has more-or-less worked out.  (I still managed to compile about 1,000 of my current 1,300 item list of crafting recipes with that PC.)  It's a whole lot harder to keep combat-lite (no parry or branched-parry) guilds alive out of the box, but it's not impossible.

[Armaddict]

There was also the agility nerf, which made agility's affect on defense far less profound.  City elves really did dodge the shit out of you, before, which seems logical, but when you combined it with warrior defense skills they became -so hard- to do any damage to.

Kicking things to death prior to it costing stamina was not really viable.  Even with high strength, kick did like...3 hp of damage.  Wrist razors were more reliable damage than kick.  Kick was a 'look what I can do' skill that did barely anything.  When they buffed it, people still didn't really give it credit because it started so low damage for high stamina cost, and then I think it was...was it Eldor's friend, who started kicking people for like 25 damage?  Someone got it up and had high strength, and a nerf to it came shortly after.

Anyway, when people talk about 'the defense nerf', I think of the agility one.  Because that's the one that -really- made half-giants and dwarves way more scary than they were back then.

[RogueGunslinger]

I think you're actually just talking about the defense nerf Synth already mentioned, and dodging was probably just more pronounced for higher agility players more so than agility was actually nerfed. Warrior Elves with high agi dodge like fucking champions still. Also do other funny things like pass climb checks and get weapons skills to advanced in a short amount of time.

Makes me want to warrior/slipknife myself a rinth elf.

[Armaddict]

I think you're actually just talking about the defense nerf Synth already mentioned, and dodging was probably just more pronounced for higher agility players more so than agility was actually nerfed. Warrior Elves with high agi dodge like fucking champions still. Also do other funny things like pass climb checks and get weapons skills to advanced in a short amount of time.

Makes me want to warrior/slipknife myself a rinth elf.

You're probably right, but I thought there was another more recent one (relatively) that changed the way defense calculations took place that was unrelated.  Could be completely wrong.  Point remains!

[BadSkeelz]

Interesting post Synthesis, thank you.

I am going to change my lament to wishing I had played a warrior before the group-combat-penalty. Being able to fight ten mobs at once would be straight up heroic.

[Synthesis]

Interesting post Synthesis, thank you.

I am going to change my lament to wishing I had played a warrior before the group-combat-penalty. Being able to fight ten mobs at once would be straight up heroic.

You can still get away with some pretty ridiculous stuff.  When my uber-warrior was maybe...I dunno, 75-80% to his peak performance, he and a maxed-out ranger took down 12 tarantulas, a silt-flyer, and a black beetle.  Very nearly died, but it was pretty epic to duo a mob group that's taken down entire RPTs full of Byn noobs.

[Clearsighted]

Interesting post Synthesis, thank you.

I am going to change my lament to wishing I had played a warrior before the group-combat-penalty. Being able to fight ten mobs at once would be straight up heroic.

You can still get away with some pretty ridiculous stuff.  When my uber-warrior was maybe...I dunno, 75-80% to his peak performance, he and a maxed-out ranger took down 12 tarantulas, a silt-flyer, and a black beetle.  Very nearly died, but it was pretty epic to duo a mob group that's taken down entire RPTs full of Byn noobs.

I can back up Synth's anecdote as being very doable. So you're not suffering THAT much from the penalty.

Still, I love this penalty. You're much better off with it in the game, than without it.

[Rathustra]

DEFENSE NERRRDDDDSSS

[Bast]

A Sorcerer before they nerfed them, a halfling, and a Oash noble. I'm always square in the middle of a pc I love when they role call for Oash   

[BadSkeelz]

With the new interest list, you can app during the role call with the stipulation you'd like to play one in the future, not right now.