Languages and the Way

[wizturbo]

IMO, the Way is communicating thoughts and psychic impressions, not just verbal sentences.  So in theory, you can express things with much more intricacy than you could by word of mouth.

Also, that would probably depend on your PCs intelligence score and some prior life experience.

I wish the Way was different, and was actually linked to a language.  I don't like the idea that you can have in depth communications with someone who doesn't speak your language through the Way.  I mean, I guess I'd be fine with Waying someone who doesn't speak your language but the interaction should be equivalent to emotional pantomime.  psi *fear towards violence, peaceful intentions*.   Stuff like that.

[Delirium]

It would make translators and the ability to speak another language far more valuable.

Which is a major plus, in my eyes.

[Desertman]

^^^

Had never considered. +1

[Narf]

It would make translators and the ability to speak another language far more valuable.

Which is a major plus, in my eyes.

Be nice to make linguists more than just a flavor role.

[Delirium]

Which also makes desert elves and tribals the exotic, strange creatures they actually should be, and if you hope to have favorable communication with them, you ought to take along someone who speaks their language and knows their culture... instead of just popping into their head with a psi and a how-d'ye-do.

[Marauder Moe]

So much +1

[valeria]

I enjoy the idea, except the part about being able to communicate emotions.  I feel like if that's something people can actually do over the Way it should be a separate, coded thing.

[Harmless]

+1, though technically nothing is stopping us from enforcing these kinds of restrictions on our RP ourselves, it'd still be nice to have it coded.

[KankWhisperer]

I enjoy the idea, except the part about being able to communicate emotions.  I feel like if that's something people can actually do over the Way it should be a separate, coded thing.

I think limiting ways to exact words like a text msg would mean you need to know the same language. I figure emotions can be like an emoticon?

[Narf]

+1, though technically nothing is stopping us from enforcing these kinds of restrictions on our RP ourselves, it'd still be nice to have it coded.

Gross confusion amongst the playerbase at what the heck your character is talking about when they say they can't way that elf. You need some sort of mutual agreement before you start playing this way or people will just assume your character is weirdly crippled or insane.

Also, you have no way of knowing what languages the person you're waying speaks or understands (or how well).

[Marauder Moe]

Regardless of whether or not there is a change to how the Way works with languages, I think a command emote syntax is a great idea.

Code Select Expand

>psi (<emotion>) Message.

[KankWhisperer]

Regardless of whether or not there is a change to how the Way works with languages, I think a command emote syntax is a great idea.

Code Select Expand

>psi (<emotion>) Message.

Maybe just simple one word emotion recommended.

[Harmless]

+1, though technically nothing is stopping us from enforcing these kinds of restrictions on our RP ourselves, it'd still be nice to have it coded.

Gross confusion amongst the playerbase at what the heck your character is talking about when they say they can't way that elf. You need some sort of mutual agreement before you start playing this way or people will just assume your character is weirdly crippled or insane.

Also, you have no way of knowing what languages the person you're waying speaks or understands (or how well).

What you're describing is true, but it's also a classic example of something that tends to irk me -- people who RP to "win" and not for realism. not saying you're one of those, just agreeing with you that people will be make those assumptions.

[KankWhisperer]

+1, though technically nothing is stopping us from enforcing these kinds of restrictions on our RP ourselves, it'd still be nice to have it coded.

Gross confusion amongst the playerbase at what the heck your character is talking about when they say they can't way that elf. You need some sort of mutual agreement before you start playing this way or people will just assume your character is weirdly crippled or insane.

Also, you have no way of knowing what languages the person you're waying speaks or understands (or how well).

What you're describing is true, but it's also a classic example of something that tends to irk me -- people who RP to "win" and not for realism. not saying you're one of those, just agreeing with you that people will be make those assumptions.

I think he's saying how do you know who ever isn't fluent also if you never met.

[Narf]

+1, though technically nothing is stopping us from enforcing these kinds of restrictions on our RP ourselves, it'd still be nice to have it coded.

Gross confusion amongst the playerbase at what the heck your character is talking about when they say they can't way that elf. You need some sort of mutual agreement before you start playing this way or people will just assume your character is weirdly crippled or insane.

Also, you have no way of knowing what languages the person you're waying speaks or understands (or how well).

What you're describing is true, but it's also a classic example of something that tends to irk me -- people who RP to "win" and not for realism. not saying you're one of those, just agreeing with you that people will be make those assumptions.

I think he's saying how do you know who ever isn't fluent also if you never met.

Yeah, what I said has almost nothing to do with powergaming. I think people will be terribly confused if you decide your character can't way people who speak different languages and that this is a normal thing.

Not upset at you for playing the game wrong, just confused.

And as I said, you might actually be playing the game wrong if you pretend you can't way someone because they can't speak sirihish... And they can.

[Harmless]

By telling them? I think that shouldn't be too hard, there'd be a bit of an awkward part at the start where people figure out what's going on, and it takes cooperation, but it could look something like this:

(Sirihish/Bendune fluent person contacting a Bendune only speaking tribal)

psi *In sirihish* Hello, you're the tribal I wanted to find.

The black-inked bald man sends you a telepathic message:
  "*Confused thoughts in Bendune come over the way.*"

psi *In bendune* ..I didn't quite get that. I learned Bendune on the caravan, so it isn't the best, could you repeat it?

The black-inked bald man sends you a telepathic message:

  "Sorry. I was unsure of who I spoke with. Glad we can communicate freely"

Again, a coded version is totally preferable over this, but this is still possible. After all, how often do people not share at least one language in common (sirihish)? Very, very rarely.

[Harmless]

Narf: People might be confused, but nothing is stopping you from refusing to do it if it's something you want to do. Over time, maybe more people will play along until it becomes canonized (or not). After all, nothing in the documentation states that the Way transcends language barriers, it's just become convention -- it could equally become convention that it doesn't, but it has to start with people willing to do it.

Judging by how many +1's this idea has, I am assuming this could become a new convention in a short amount of time.

[Marauder Moe]

Eh.  It may not be explicitly documented, but it is explicitly coded that the Way ignores languages.  I don't really see how you can pretend otherwise, nor do I think it's a good method for bringing about staff/code changes.

[Harmless]

I find it funny that people simultaneously want something coded but choose not to just roleplay out what they want when it is definitely possible. Just because choosing to do something that is codedly possible confers obvious advantages -- anyway, that's not the point, the point here really is that most all of us agree this would be a cool code feature. Until then we'll just do what we want to in game.

[wizturbo]

I agree, psi (emotional emote) <message> would be ideal.  With the emote being language neutral, the message being language based.

[Delirium]

I find it funny that people simultaneously want something coded but choose not to just roleplay out what they want when it is definitely possible. Just because choosing to do something that is codedly possible confers obvious advantages -- anyway, that's not the point, the point here really is that most all of us agree this would be a cool code feature. Until then we'll just do what we want to in game.

In this case, it's because it means that you're breaking with the actual, coded reality of the game (which is that everyone can understand each other over the way) to try and enforce a non-documented, non-universally accepted roleplay standard which you think everyone else should abide by. People will just be confused and frustrated.

As much as I'd like to see this change, it needs to be canon before we start pretending it is canon.

As for how to implement it, I agree with the >psi (feel emote) message command.

[valeria]

I'd also love the command emote.  I wish it was already a thing, with or without the change to how languages work over the way.

[wizturbo]

I think having a language bonus over the Way could be appropriate. 

Like, if you're a journeyman in the language, perhaps your coded ability to speak would be closer to advanced, as the psionic medium is more forgiving on things like pronunciation.

There would also be no need for an accent over the Way, just like there's no accent in writings.

[Harmless]

I find it funny that people simultaneously want something coded but choose not to just roleplay out what they want when it is definitely possible. Just because choosing to do something that is codedly possible confers obvious advantages -- anyway, that's not the point, the point here really is that most all of us agree this would be a cool code feature. Until then we'll just do what we want to in game.

In this case, it's because it means that you're breaking with the actual, coded reality of the game (which is that everyone can understand each other over the way) to try and enforce a non-documented, non-universally accepted roleplay standard which you think everyone else should abide by. People will just be confused and frustrated.

As much as I'd like to see this change, it needs to be canon before we start pretending it is canon.

As for how to implement it, I agree with the >psi (feel emote) message command.

First off, I'm not trying to "enforce" anything, but I do think it should be an individual's choice whether or not to play out the coded ability to communicate across languages with the Way.

Imagine a very early form of armageddon where you had some players who wanted to play gith roles. As a gith then, it might have been coded to be able to go into the Gaj and hang out with others. Some players, however, might try their damnedest to counter this by hunting gith that did so.

Imagine that before crim code people would willingly self-enforce not just murdering people on the streets and getting away with it.

Imagine that before language code existed at all, people playing desert elves would choose not to speak publicly or to just whisper or speak in private to create a virtual language barrier.

The way I see it, if people want something and it can be emulated with RP, then there's nothing wrong with doing it. I'm not enforcing that anybody should do this, I'm just saying they can as is, and I personally think that they should be allowed to. After all, it doesn't seem like it'd be hard to get around it -- everybody knows an elf, or a tribal, so just contact them and ask them to do your Waying for you.

[Tetra]

To clarify, my initial statement is sort of counter to this idea of the Way being dependent on language.

Language is a learned convention -- and it involves association of thoughts, concepts, and meanings expressed in a physical capacity.  

The Way is not physical or linguistic.  It is psionic.  From an existential perspective, thought is magnetic and ephemeral.  It transcends language specifically because it is not linguistic, but psychic(the paradox here is that it is still a mode of communicating, which makes it a language, albeit functioning entirely different).

That means you may not share a vernacular, but you should absolutely be able to communicate with someone who cannot speak your language.  That is the inherent benefit of Waying, because it depends on your willpower and your mind, not peripheral and cultural conditioning.