Tribal Talk

[Rathustra]

If people would stop treating the tribal accent like a multipass, I think we'd see less of the tribal influx.

Though, frankly, the environment and documentation of the coded tribes is more or less set up for mudsex-lovin', babby-havin' folk, and not everyone enjoys that kind of RP.

lol wat

[Delirium]

Case in point: Arabet docs.

I realize staff does what they can to mitigate the hug-pile roleplay, but the documentation could use refreshing too.

As for the multipass comment, it seems like the default for anyone trying to "pass" in either city is to just roll up a tribal. Presto, friends with everyone!

Fortunately Allanak seems a little less huggy-friends with the tribal sorts. Tribals should be (occasionally exotic) outsiders, not near-universally accepted. They should also feel less comfortable with just hanging out in a filthy bar and schmoozing with the locals unless they're a very experienced trader. Think: country bumpkin in New York for the first time.

[Is Friday]

Case in point: Arabet docs.

I realize staff does what they can to mitigate the hug-pile roleplay, but the documentation could use refreshing too.

As for the multipass comment, it seems like the default for anyone trying to "pass" in either city is to just roll up a tribal. Presto, friends with everyone!

Fortunately Allanak seems a little less huggy-friends with the tribal sorts. Tribals should be (occasionally exotic) outsiders, not near-universally accepted. They should also feel less comfortable with just hanging out in a filthy bar and schmoozing with the locals unless they're a very experienced trader. Think: country bumpkin in New York for the first time.

I played with Roughneck's Arabeti. One of my PCs was a bounty he failed to collect on. My PC was paralyzed and awaiting death, trying to bargain with him over the Way when my PC's friend came to the rescue. Then I played a Seik later on. Roughneck was the best example of tribal RP I'd seen ever, gypsies included, for making the game world awesome. I've played 10 indie tribals, 5 Seik/Arabet, 3 gypsies, 1 Jul Tavan, 2 Benjari (estimated.) Roughneck's PC was a dangerous, not bunny hugging PC. Gritty and raw in outsider dealings -- familiar and loving with tribemates. Distrusting of magick (as he should have been as an Arabeti), yet kept it within the realm of realistic fear.

I liked playing with him a lot. I wish all human tribals played with the focus and canon he did. He was the antithesis of the joke human tribals you see. I think he is right and led by example, but I don't believe I have ever met such a powerful PC that represented the documentation and heart of tribal roleplay as he did with his PC. You see the same thing in city clans. Let's use Arj as an example. A Leggionnaire that was a big dumb nice-to-everyone softy outwardly. Arj was a great character, in my opinion. He set the tone for a lot of PCs unwittingly and encouraged them to emulate his behavior, even though he was supposed to be more of a niche/unique person. Part of that was impact, visibility, etc.*

It's hard to impact the game world and leave a tribe a certain way RP-wise because it is insular. So if you have high turnover in that clan you lose the impact of previous PCs a lot of the time, for better or worse. This is why you see the culture of the Byn vary wildly between 2008, 2009, 2010, etc. It really depends on the Sergeant, because so much is open to interpretation.

Having played in the Seik during the time after Calavera's awesome documentation additions, it was a good time. I did not enjoy my time with some of the other players in my clan for various reasons that I addressed with staff. Staff (Rathustra and co.) spent a lot of time tightening up documentation, reinforcing tribal documents, and asked my opinion on how he altered the human tribals clan to make for a fun experience for those involved.

I think one of the best things about the idea of forcing people into a human tribal clan as opposed to allowing them to be indie is that you set a standard for roleplay that can/will be enforced by staff. Such was done with desert elves. I really don't see why we do not do this for human tribals now that we have a "create a clan" option. If you want to run an indie tribal, you should have to develop and have the documentation approved beforehand. This would do two things: 1.) Actually force tribals to act like tribals on some level and 2.) Bring people together for human tribals that really want to embrace the community roleplay. But that's just like... my opinion, man.

Human tribals will always have a special place in my heart.

*I've had this discussion with Arj's player before, so please no one see this post as a bash on his part or others mentioned here.

[bcw81]

:C I liked that one Seik you were talking about she was fun.

But yeah, that goddamn stereotype of tribals is really wrong in so many ways - though there are surely some players who set them.

[Malken]

If I was Rath I would have shut down the Seik after we all played there.

[Patuk]

If everyone loves human tribals so much, why is nobody playing them?

[Cind]

They do seem rarer where I'm playing than usual.

Not gith, mantis.

[Malken]

If everyone loves human tribals so much, why is nobody playing them?

Because there's absolutely no goal to playing them and you are constantly reminded/told that you are a weak ass dying tribe and no matter what you do, quiet survival is your best option.

[Is Friday]

If everyone loves human tribals so much, why is nobody playing them?

Because there's absolutely no goal to playing them and you are constantly reminded/told that you are a weak ass dying tribe and no matter what you do, quiet survival is your best option.

I enjoyed what community roleplay that I could get on my human tribals and that to me was the heart of the role. Playing an indie tribal is, imo, just so that you can solo RP and/or join a clan. The best part of tribal roleplay is the community, for sure. So if you have a toxic player community in the clan that has 10 different ideas about what the tribe should be, it sucks. Hence, Staff has been kind enough to put a lot of effort into making the docs more clear so it's fair.

You can't really punish someone playing a "crappy" tribal if they're indie or they're playing in a clan with barebones docs -- they don't have a standard with which to adhere to.

[Malken]

If everyone loves human tribals so much, why is nobody playing them?

Because there's absolutely no goal to playing them and you are constantly reminded/told that you are a weak ass dying tribe and no matter what you do, quiet survival is your best option.

I enjoyed what community roleplay that I could get on my human tribals and that to me was the heart of the role. Playing an indie tribal is, imo, just so that you can solo RP and/or join a clan. The best part of tribal roleplay is the community, for sure. So if you have a toxic player community in the clan that has 10 different ideas about what the tribe should be, it sucks. Hence, Staff has been kind enough to put a lot of effort into making the docs more clear so it's fair.

You can't really punish someone playing a "crappy" tribal if they're indie or they're playing in a clan with barebones docs -- they don't have a standard with which to adhere to.

I agree that it can be fun for a while, but for someone who is goal oriented like myself, tribals are probably the worse option since, after the usual "let's make sure the tribe has enough food/good relationship with Kurac", there's really not that much else to look forward to. You're still a weak ass dying tribe. The few tribals left that I'm seeing are often working under bigger organizations like Kurac, as mentioned.

[Is Friday]

I'm goal oriented myself. This last time I tried it, I took toward playing the storyteller role in which I could create stories/have broader goals, though. With that being said, I think the current staff structure may allow for clans like the Seik/Arabet to get more love on that front. They are a niche role and not for everyone.

[Molten Heart]

Limiting things like virtual tribes limits player creativity and reinforces the mindset that the coded world is all that exists, assuming there is no virtual world.

[Is Friday]

Limiting things like virtual tribes limits player creativity and reinforces the mindset that is that the coded world is all that exists, assuming there is there is no virtual world.

You are not limited if you go through the tribe creation/clan creation/family creation process available to all players. You cannot play virtual desert elves because it once became a problem that they were being misrepresented in the game. Such is the case, I feel, for human tribals. (And has been for as long as I've been playing.)

[BadSkeelz]

I think that's a conversation for another thread. Lately I've been thinking myself what the "optimal" level of documentation for a clan/tribe/city-state might be. I suppose it'd be enough to know what the mood or flavor of a clan would or could be, without having to be a big script to memorize lest you start doing it wrong.

[Molten Heart]

Limiting things like virtual tribes limits player creativity and reinforces the mindset that is that the coded world is all that exists, assuming there is there is no virtual world.

You are not limited if you go through the tribe creation/clan creation/family creation process available to all players.

What's wrong with the character approval process?

[Is Friday]

Limiting things like virtual tribes limits player creativity and reinforces the mindset that is that the coded world is all that exists, assuming there is there is no virtual world.

You are not limited if you go through the tribe creation/clan creation/family creation process available to all players.

What's wrong with the character approval process?

You cannot belong to a "virtual" tribe with a desert elf because it would mean you are reaping the "benefits" of being a desert elf without any of the culture reinforcement. The same should be applied to tribal humans.

[bcw81]

Split this from the Gith thread.

[Molten Heart]

It'd be good if desert elves weren't restricted to only the tribes that are open.

[slvrmoontiger]

Would have been nice if staff would have put some love into Arabeti/Seik before opening ATV. Not sure the point of ATV, but that's just my saying. I think most people don't/won't play a Seik or Arabeti for the simple reason there really is no community. You have to leave camp to find someone to talk to. So unless you like solo RP and RP with NPCs/VNPCs and learning everything all on your own you really pass on the tribal human. It's just sad because the tribal human play is a lot of fun (as long as you're somewhere other than the camps).

[Patuk]

I think most anythings I've seen, be they tribes ir citystates, err towards too little documentation rather than toward too much of it. Most documentation ends up being something along the lines of 'this is common, but do whatever', anyway. An example is fighting styles: the docs state that Allanaki people may prefer swords, and elves do well with spears, but someone from the south toting a club or an elf with an axe isn't some kind of big deal. As long as it's made clear that deviating from shit like fashion or storytelling docs isn't some kind of grave offence, I think most clans could use some added pages.

[Is Friday]

Would have been nice if staff would have put some love into Arabeti/Seik before opening ATV. Not sure the point of ATV, but that's just my saying. I think most people don't/won't play a Seik or Arabeti for the simple reason there really is no community. You have to leave camp to find someone to talk to. So unless you like solo RP and RP with NPCs/VNPCs and learning everything all on your own you really pass on the tribal human. It's just sad because the tribal human play is a lot of fun (as long as you're somewhere other than the camps).

For the record: Seik/Arabet were given a huge amount of documentation, camp, NPC, lore, everything attention 2ish years ago. Seik/Arabeti docs used to be about 2 paragraphs long. Now it's more like 4-6k words.

[BadSkeelz]

You cannot belong to a "virtual" tribe with a desert elf because it would mean you are reaping the "benefits" of being a desert elf without any of the culture reinforcement. The same should be applied to tribal humans.

What are the benefits to this hypothetical virtual-tribe Desert Elf? Their tribe is virtual and therefore (judging from the City Elf situation) worthless in code and roleplay. What they do have are coded benefits for surviving in the desert, which are perhaps powerful enough that you want players of Desert Elves to be in Staff-managed tribes so a closer eye can be kept on them. That seems a fair trade to me.

Human indie tribals do not have any great coded advantage over a human cityslicker with the right guilds. The only thing they definitely have is the option to play the "other" to the settled peoples, which can have pros or cons depending on how they play. Yes, it can be a multipass, but it can also be a block. An uninked human tribal in Tuluk was at a serious social disadvantage in that City versus an inked human.

You want Human Tribals Players to have to craft Tribal docs and submit them to staff approval. What's your hope there? What's to stop the PC from tailor-making tribal docs to how they plan to play their indie tribal anyway? It's just a lot of paperwork with no guarantee that we're going to see better "Roleplay" or whatever it is you would hope to achieve from this process.

[Is Friday]

Indie human tribals do not have coded benefits, yup. (Unless you consider "sexy accent" a benefit, which some players do, heh.) That's not the point. It's to keep tribals acting like tribals. If you are an Allanaki citizen that acts against the grain, you have peers/leaders/criminals to smack you back into line or staff to do it for them with the virtual world. If you are an indie tribal you can act any way you please and justify it very flimsily.

Which is okay, if you want indie tribals to act like a bunch of wandering dirty Casanovas. But I don't think it lends much to the game.

[Patuk]

lol

Solo delf op? Ban solo delves

Tribal celf op? Ban tribal celf

Maybe the bastards oughta switch

[Delirium]

This is about human tribals, not elven tribals. Take your dead horse elsewhere.

[bcw81]

I don't think it should be enforced that people playing indy human tribals should need to create firm, hardline docs for themselves - though with that said, I do think it definitely helps a whole lot. I created my own docs when I played my indy shaman tribal, and tried to stick with them pretty damn close the whole way. Not only was it easier to play the character and make decisions based on what he and his tribe would think, but it was also made the experience all the more fun because I was playing a tribe -I- made.

[BadSkeelz]

Indie human tribals do not have coded benefits, yup. (Unless you consider "sexy accent" a benefit, which some players do, heh.) That's not the point. It's to keep tribals acting like tribals. If you are an Allanaki citizen that acts against the grain, you have peers/leaders/criminals to smack you back into line or staff to do it for them with the virtual world. If you are an indie tribal you can act any way you please and justify it very flimsily.

Which is okay, if you want indie tribals to act like a bunch of wandering dirty Casanovas. But I don't think it lends much to the game.

What does "keep tribals acting like tribals" mean? We have 2 or 3 Human tribe clans open right now, and they all act slightly different. (Though this might be a poorer example now since the Gypsies are no longer a thing, but I'd have little trouble telling a Gypsy apart from an Arabeti). Are some of these clans doing it wrong?

And what if we think ALL the current open tribe clans sound disinteresting or downright unappealing, but don't want to spend a week detailing how our tribal buries his poop in the desert?

If you are an Allanaki citizen that acts against the grain, you have peers/leaders/criminals to smack you back into line or staff to do it for them with the virtual world. If you are an indie tribal you can act any way you please and justify it very flimsily.

If an indie tribal is acting out inside of a settlement, it's up to that settlement's population to keep them in line. Tribals being given a pass is a fault on the pass-givers as much as the tribal. Just like any game minority group (Gemmed, Elves, Gemmed Elves) being given a pass is a failure of both sides.

This is about human tribals, not elven tribals. Take your dead horse elsewhere.

Dead horses, the only acceptable elven mount.

[Molten Heart]

If the problem is enforcing roleplay, I think that's best done directly when needed. If there's a problem, let staff handle it.

[Is Friday]

Tribal humans are a rare, insular group in the game world. They should be represented well, just like magickers or other karma options (such as delves).

If a tribal human goes to the city and acts inappropriately for the city, it is the city's rules they they abide by, not their tribe's. An indie tribal can act any which way they please with no regard to a tribe given no moderation. Much like a "smart/clever" half-giant that is not checked by staff appropriately, because that is a karma role that should be moderated because of its place in the game world. (Nevermind that it can be considered powerful.)

[Patuk]

Something I think could work for the Arabet at least is for PC's to be allowed a 'family' subforum. What you could do is allow people to post what family inside the arabet their characters are from, and let them describe added mannerisms/traits/customs/whatevers to who they are accordingly. I think tribal RP would be a lot more fun for many people if they had an easier time playing actual characters rather than caricatures.

[Is Friday]

Something I think could work for the Arabet at least is for PC's to be allowed a 'family' subforum. What you could do is allow people to post what family inside the arabet their characters are from, and let them describe added mannerisms/traits/customs/whatevers to who they are accordingly. I think tribal RP would be a lot more fun for many people if they had an easier time playing actual characters rather than caricatures.

This exists and happens.

When you roll into tribal humans (coded clans) you know your cousin(s) backgrounds as much as the other player would like, because you grew up with them in the community.

[Patuk]

That's still more limited than I was suggesting. If you make a subforum made specifically for family docs, people can app into the tribe and have more background info. If someone is feeling creative, writes up a storm about a family of arabetti fencers, and dies two weeks in, some other person can carry on their legacy if they ask staff for docs two months later and see their post.

[BadSkeelz]

Tribal humans are a rare, insular group in the game world. They should be represented well, just like magickers or other karma options (such as delves).

Says you. I don't see anything in the docs to suggest that Human Tribals (regardless of tribe) should be rare. Uncommon in the cities, sure, but not rare. Certainly not as rare as desert elves (which, if you watch the echoes, seem a lot more common Virtually than PC interaction would suggest), let alone magickers. There are certainly a lot more tribes than the six listed on the Human Tribes page.

[slvrmoontiger]

Would have been nice if staff would have put some love into Arabeti/Seik before opening ATV. Not sure the point of ATV, but that's just my saying. I think most people don't/won't play a Seik or Arabeti for the simple reason there really is no community. You have to leave camp to find someone to talk to. So unless you like solo RP and RP with NPCs/VNPCs and learning everything all on your own you really pass on the tribal human. It's just sad because the tribal human play is a lot of fun (as long as you're somewhere other than the camps).

For the record: Seik/Arabet were given a huge amount of documentation, camp, NPC, lore, everything attention 2ish years ago. Seik/Arabeti docs used to be about 2 paragraphs long. Now it's more like 4-6k words.

I would love to comment on this but it might get to IC'ly. Suffice to say, yes there was a revival for the Arabeti/Seik documentation (most of the really good lore documentation is Seik with just "customs" there for Arabeti. What I meant is I'm not even sure when the last time there was a Role Call for the Seik/Arabeti. However, a Role Call is done for the ATV and they are brought from closed to players to an open status. When that gets done suddenly there are half a dozen new ATV's. I'm just saying that maybe something could have done to inspire people to play the tribal humans before looking towards a closed for play tribe. It's sad I think the tribal humans could be a lot of fun, but without a community it can be quite boring until you leave the camps.

[Is Friday]

Tribal humans are a rare, insular group in the game world. They should be represented well, just like magickers or other karma options (such as delves).

Says you. I don't see anything in the docs to suggest that Human Tribals (regardless of tribe) should be rare. Uncommon in the cities, sure, but not rare. Certainly not as rare as desert elves (which, if you watch the echoes, seem a lot more common Virtually than PC interaction would suggest), let alone magickers. There are certainly a lot more tribes than the six listed on the Human Tribes page.

You can play in one clan (although it is two different "cousin" tribes). Their population is low in the game world. The other tribal human clans were closed. I'm not sure what else I have to say to convince you.

[Patuk]

Given that agriculture is wtfhard in Zalanthas, anyone not inside a city, farming village, or working for Kurac, will be some kind of hunter-gatherer/nomad, no matter their race. Individual tribes aren't necessarily (or even probably) large, but they will span a ridiculously large area over the world.

[BadSkeelz]

The open or closed status of a clan has nothing to do with its place in the game world. The Blackwings are still out there, the gith are still out there, Tuluk is still out there (too soon?). I don't have any evidence that the "large" Jul Taven (at some 600 members) has been obliterated, so I assume it's still out there.

The one Human tribal clan that happens to be open just also happens to be fairly insular and small. To use them as the benchmark for every other human tribal clan is not a good idea, in my opinion.

[valeria]

I'm not sure what you can play as a player accurately represents the relative populations of the game world.  For instance, you're going to be unable to play in Tuluk soon but I assume there's still going to be at least a couple people living in the city.  Also I'm pretty sure elves are underrepresented, dwarves are overrepresented, etc.  So I'm not sure I really understand what you're arguing Friday.

[Is Friday]

I think this is sort of a derail from the point of "tribals should be limited to play like tribals, not tribal-accented multi-pass hunters".

Perhaps it is fine to have the nomad subguild available to people who want to roleplay not being from a "tribe" and instead be a traveling merchant that interacts with tribals often. But the common trope here is that "I'm from a tribe where all of my people died so I'm an orphan therefore no docs, thanks for the accent guys".

[slvrmoontiger]

There's a whole tribal market in the soon to be unplayable Tuluk. If they were so rare then how would they get a spot of land to sell there things inside a major city-state?

[BadSkeelz]

I think this is sort of a derail from the point of "tribals should be limited to play like tribals, not tribal-accented multi-pass hunters".

My disagreement with this line of thinking is that it's essentially "tribals should be limiited to play like the Arabeti and Al'Seik since those are the only human tribes that are open at this point." It's an overly narrow approach to the game world that's more damaging than a hundred multi-pass hunters.

[Molten Heart]

Seems like the heart of the matter here is accents, and not human tribals.

[Is Friday]

There's a whole tribal market in the soon to be unplayable Tuluk. If they were so rare then how would they get a spot of land to sell there things inside a major city-state?

Tuluk has a background and history of tribals represented in their documentation. Tribals that belong in Tuluk are not the same tribals we're talking about.

[slvrmoontiger]

The open or closed status of a clan has nothing to do with its place in the game world. The Blackwings are still out there, the gith are still out there, Tuluk is still out there (too soon?). I don't have any evidence that the "large" Jul Taven (at some 600 members) has been obliterated, so I assume it's still out there.

The one Human tribal clan that happens to be open just also happens to be fairly insular and small. To use them as the benchmark for every other human tribal clan is not a good idea, in my opinion.

1) There are 2 tribal human clans that are open Arabet and Al 'Seik. They are TWO different clans. That's first of all.
2) I have never seen anything in the documentation that states how LARGE or SMALL they are. If you've seen that, please point me to that documentation, because I would love to read it.

[Is Friday]

The open or closed status of a clan has nothing to do with its place in the game world. The Blackwings are still out there, the gith are still out there, Tuluk is still out there (too soon?). I don't have any evidence that the "large" Jul Taven (at some 600 members) has been obliterated, so I assume it's still out there.

The one Human tribal clan that happens to be open just also happens to be fairly insular and small. To use them as the benchmark for every other human tribal clan is not a good idea, in my opinion.

1) There are 2 tribal human clans that are open Arabet and Al 'Seik. They are TWO different clans. That's first of all.
2) I have never seen anything in the documentation that states how LARGE or SMALL they are. If you've seen that, please point me to that documentation, because I would love to read it.

I've been told via request how large the Seik/Arabet are but I'm not sure if that's okay to post here because it seemed like "privileged" info that you'd only know if you were regularly with the tents. Needless to say, anybody in that area should probably be able to make an inquiry via request tool.

[Patuk]

Seik are tiny, Arabet are biggish, yaaaay

[BadSkeelz]

The Arabeti and Al'Seik also share each others tents/are considered "sister tribes." That's somewhere in the public docs. From a management perspective they're treated as a single clan, I think.

Still just one example of many that happesn to be open and not necessarily a fair indicator of Human tribals should interact and be a part of the rest of the game world.

[slvrmoontiger]

Okay, let's get back onto the accent.

Anyone given time and effort can pick up a tribal accent, just as you can a northern or southern one. I'm not even sure anymore who is really a tribal or who just picked up the accent and that's how my characters usually play. So please don't generalize that just people a PC can and does speak with a tribal accent that they are tribal. It goes along the lines of saying "Oh that person is hiding so he/she must be an assassin. Both are really bad RP because it's not the case. The second analogy actually comes from a Staff member that told me I was RPing badly because I claimed someone "might be" a rogue type because I caught them hiding. Since that whole thing I've learned to take things as they are and to not assume things. Perhaps this is where this thread should go.

[Is Friday]

The Arabeti and Al'Seik also share each others tents/are considered "sister tribes." That's somewhere in the public docs. From a management perspective they're treated as a single clan, I think.

Still just one example of many that happesn to be open and not necessarily a fair indicator of Human tribals should interact and be a part of the rest of the game world.

Then the suggestion is that tribal roleplay should be restricted in more ways, in order to provide a richer experience for those engaging in it.

slvrmoontiger:
No, that's not what this thread is about.

[slvrmoontiger]

The Arabeti and Al'Seik also share each others tents/are considered "sister tribes." That's somewhere in the public docs. From a management perspective they're treated as a single clan, I think.

Still just one example of many that happesn to be open and not necessarily a fair indicator of Human tribals should interact and be a part of the rest of the game world.

From a cultural and historical standpoint they are completely different. So if you're talking management that's one thing. If you are talking about tribes that's another. Please specify which you are speaking about so it's not so confusing. Also, per documentation they are listed as 2 different tribes. They may cohabitate, they may be sister tribes, however they are different.

[slvrmoontiger]

The Arabeti and Al'Seik also share each others tents/are considered "sister tribes." That's somewhere in the public docs. From a management perspective they're treated as a single clan, I think.

Still just one example of many that happesn to be open and not necessarily a fair indicator of Human tribals should interact and be a part of the rest of the game world.

Then the suggestion is that tribal roleplay should be restricted in more ways, in order to provide a richer experience for those engaging in it.

slvrmoontiger:
No, that's not what this thread is about.

The thread is about tribals getting a free pass because of speaking accents and not being kept to roleplaying correctly. My example fit in perfectly with this. How are you determining who is a tribal if you really have NO way, other than someone saying "I'm a tribal." (that person could be lying too.), of knowing that someone is a tribal. So unless you were commenting on something else please don't tell me I'm wrong.

[Is Friday]

Because I only play Lirathans.

edit:
Okay, I see your point.

My suggestion is still that play be restricted to coded clans or created "tribes" through the request tool, though.

[BadSkeelz]

Then the suggestion is that tribal roleplay should be restricted in more ways, in order to provide a richer experience for those engaging in it.

And that's where we're not going to agree. I'm exceptionally leery of restricting any sort of roleplay on the off-chance that you restrict people out of wanting to try it. If Human Tribal RP was restricted to be close to what the Open Clans currently provide, I wouldn't do it because that flavor of RP holds limited interest to me. This might achieve your goal of making Human Tribals rare, but you're going to wind up with a diminished pool of players and eventually a bland, familiar repeating product.

Players should be encouraged to RP a rich tribal experience, of the pre-existing variety or of their own choosing. The Tribal Role Call addition was a step in the right direction there.

Players should be discouraged from using the tribal accent or "background" as a multipass.

[Is Friday]

Players should be encouraged to RP a rich tribal experience, of the pre-existing variety or of their own choosing. The Tribal Role Call addition was a step in the right direction there.

Players should be discouraged from using the tribal accent or "background" as a multipass.

You cannot enforce rules and regulations without guidelines. If a player does not outline at least a bare minimum (whatever that might be decided on) then the staff have no fair way in which to police the RP of indie tribals.

For example: If a Red Fang were seen hobnobbing with an ATV and there was no documentation or NPC (staff) reinforcement of their virtual relations, it would seem heavy-handed and unfair of staff to add negative account notes or do something harsh against your PC. I've personally had this happen to me when the documentation was far more sparse and I was given very little "guidance". I was punished for not understanding a role before. Some people never take criticism of any kind poorly and at the very least most people do not take criticism well at certain times. Having an understanding of what tribal role you are playing will lead to less conflict between staff and players.

[Molten Heart]

This is a better idea for elves (city and desert elves) because tribes play a more central role for them than for humans.  Humans with tribal origins don't necessarily need to be tied to a tribe.

[BadSkeelz]

Human tribals don't necessarily need to be tied to a tribe.

I have a feeling that's part of IF's problem with them. I don't find it a particularly fun or interesting RP angle, either. Why play a tribal if you don't have some cool tribal background to color your character and actions?

Edit: the obvious counter point of "how's that different from a city elf" is that human tribals, by and large, aren't going to get shit on quite to the point of needing to develop a "fuck with one of us, fuck with all of us" defense mechanisms like City Elves have. If human tribal PCs were treated to the same level of abuse as City Elf PCs, you'd probably see similar complaints about the role and a desire to tribe-app.

[Is Friday]

Pretty much.

[MeTekillot]

You get the tragic wangst of being a breed because your tribe got wiped out but you don't have to bother being held to the RP standard of being a breed, don't have to worry about having not-so-good strength and endurance, you get an all-access pass accent, and so you can talk like Tarzan and seduce all the nubile city women?

[BadSkeelz]

/em grunts approvingly, eats banana.

[roughneck]

Somewhere, someone mentioned something about a community. Playing a 'tribal' would suggest to me that they're part of a 'tribe', or 'community'. Some people manage to pull off representing a virtual community with their indie tribal pc, the vast majority don't, because it's supremely tough, I know I can't really do it. A bit of documentation and a coded home really brings this sense of community to life, now add even one or two other PC's, and your tribe has a pulse that can be felt by other PC's in the game world.

I think more tribal play restrictions would be beneficial and actually keep the role feeling fresh and lively. I might be the only player that rolls his/her eyes every time I come across a regurgitation of the same indie tribal concept, but I doubt it. If staff were to open up one or two more tribes, even if one is a bare bones people group based in Luirs, and limit/restrict indie tribals, I think you'd see a greater sense of community in tribal rp. Which is what tribal rp should be about, community.

As a tribal pc, your community is your identity. Even if you abandoned or turned on your tribe, it should be a bigger deal than one sentence in your first bio. Why does it seem like a crazy idea to try and really push the idea that tribals should have codedly developed, documented and monitored community roleplay? How would it hurt the game?

[Harmless]

Meh, another thread where some people say that 90% of the playerbase "isn't doing it right." This time up on the chopping block, human tribals.

I've seen a variety of tribal RP styles, from established tribes like the gypsies and arabeti to plenty, plenty of indie tribals that I thought were good. I admit that the tribal feels deeper when the player has created some background docs for themself to play it out; I talked to some players who do this, and I was convinced it helps. However, that same player just rolled up the PC with a regular app. To the imm approving such an app, it looks like any other tribal, without them knowing if the player made something as a reference or not. I think that's totally fine.

I would never start saying that such an effort should be mandatory at all, just like I wouldn't ask someone who is from the city to make a document for all their family.

The entire premise behind this argument is ridiculous and way off base. -1.