Injury Debuff - Something for Physicians

[Bushranger]

Threads about physicians or bandages are on the list of topics that comes up from time to time. Some people say the bandage skill is useless when most people would prefer to sleep their injuries away. Some people want more need for physician RP. Some people claim that the bandage skill is only worthwhile at the upper ranges. I personally like this quote:

I'd sooner face an ancient defiler than a n00b medic armed with a backpack full of bandages.

Today I had a simple idea: Injury.

When you loose enough hit points that you can no longer recover them without sleeping you will obtain the Injury flag which will show up in Status like Poison or Spice. When you have the Injury flag your maximum hit points are reduced by 10%. It can be removed by the bandage skill (even a failed attempt), a healing spell/potion or by simply waiting for a rl day (IC week).

Having to wait a RL day for the Injury flag is to represent the lingering effects of being severely injured and not seeking medical attention - you'll be a little sore for a week as you slowly mend. It's only a 10% reduction in maximum hit points so you can still go hunting/brawling/whatever even if there are no PC's with bandage around.

Having the Injury flag removed even with a failed bandage attempt means it is something that novice physicians are still good at. They might pull the bandage too tight and cause more bleeding when they wrap up the injury but they are still doing something to help the injured person and in the long term they are doing some good.

Magick healing also removes the Injury flag - because Magick.

Edit to add:

I do not think anything needs to be changed with the way bandaging works. If you have the Injury flag and you have slept up to your maximum hit points (90% with the Injury) you will not be able to be bandaged any more - you went too long without medical treatment and you'll have to just limp around for a RL day until the Injury flag fades.

[Desertman]

I like anything that makes the medicinal arts of the common man in game more useful/needed.

+1

[valeria]

Other than thinking a failed bandage attempt should not help, I'm all for this idea.

Edit: stupid phone

[Saellyn]

Failing a bandage check literally means you fucked up. If anything, failed bandage attempts should add extra debuff to prevent people wanting to try to spam bandage attempts.

[whitt]

Like this idea.

[Jeax]

I +1 this, as well.

[Aruven]

+1

[Bushranger]

Failing a bandage check literally means you fucked up. If anything, failed bandage attempts should add extra debuff to prevent people wanting to try to spam bandage attempts.

A failed bandage attempt already does 10 to 30 hp of damage, I don't know what MUD you're playing but people generally don't want newbie medics spamming bandage attempts!

I've suggested that a failed bandage attempt removes the Injury flag precisely so you don't need to suffer several failed bandage attempts. Sure, when Runner Amos the Broken Sword wannabe slapped that bandage on your wound he pulled it too tight and caused you to scream like a little boy when you bled some more - but at least something was tied about your injury to apply some pressure on it over time! A skilled physician would have been able to treat your injury and make you feel better when he was doing it.

It's like failing to cook meat, at least you can eat the shrivelled burned mess if you're starving!

[Saellyn]

Nah. I want the ability to remove debuffs solely in the hands of those capable of actually passing a bandage check.

[Kankfly]

I like the sound of it, but what if  there's no one around to bandage you up? Then won't you be carrying the injury flag for a while despite sleeping and healing to max (with the -10% drop) hp?

[RogueGunslinger]

1 RL day isn't that long at all to wait.

[Jihelu]

I like the sound of it, but what if  there's no one around to bandage you up? Then won't you be carrying the injury flag for a while despite sleeping and healing to max (with the -10% drop) hp?

I would assume thats the case.
If you get fucked up really hard, you shouldn't be fighting that week.

[Kankfly]

Missed the 1 RL day thing.

[nauta]

I like the sound of it, but what if  there's no one around to bandage you up? Then won't you be carrying the injury flag for a while despite sleeping and healing to max (with the -10% drop) hp?

I'd be even keen to see it longer.  The idea I think is to get people to seek out a medic.  I suppose clan doctors could remove the Injury tag...

[Aruven]

I like the sound of it, but what if  there's no one around to bandage you up? Then won't you be carrying the injury flag for a while despite sleeping and healing to max (with the -10% drop) hp?

I'd be even keen to see it longer.  The idea I think is to get people to seek out a medic.  I suppose clan doctors could remove the Injury tag...

I think 1 day is a nice median. I'd like to believe I can trust the playerbase to roleplay out something more serious if it happens.

[Armaddict]

While the failed bandage does already have a penalty, I think there's a loss in translation (at least for me):

If you're saying you can only seek the medical attention the same as now, at a certain point of life...i.e. You need to get bandaged up (relatively) quickly, then even a failure should remove the debuff, imo.
However, if you can now use bandage at any amount of hp in order to remove the debuff, I'd say make it require success.

Really, bandage really is underused and rightly so.  It could definitely use some love, even if it's not just straight up 'buff/nerf' complex and just something...creatively beneficial to using it.  Or in this case, detrimental to not be using it, which might honestly be more effective in establishing zalanthan medicine.

[RogueGunslinger]

I like this idea.

It'd be nice of you could bandage someone at any injury level. Why do they have to be between two values? I hate that you get "This person isn't in need of bandaging or This person is beyond your skills" because that should be entirely up to the injury sustained, and the roleplay behind it, which is in the characters hands. It also makes skilling up Bandaging incredibly hard to do, as you have to find people in this perfect goldilocks range for healing.

[Bushranger]

I don't think we need to make any changes to when a person can or can't be bandaged. You will still need to be bandaged when seriously injured and if you regain hit points without receiving a bandage you'll need to let the Injury debuff fade over a rl day!

[CodeMaster]

+1 to this idea.

I like the idea of bandaging having a use even at extremely low levels of the skill.

(IMO it would be nice if more skills had novice-level utility.)

Even if being injured only took away 5% of your HP, physicians would still be in demand, especially in sparring and combat oriented clans.

[RogueGunslinger]

I don't think we need to make any changes to when a person can or can't be bandaged. You will still need to be bandaged when seriously injured and if you regain hit points without receiving a bandage you'll need to let the Injury debuff fade over a rl day!

My problem with it is it encourages people to just sleep of their wounds. "OH shit, I'm too injured to get medical attention, better just sleep it off." or "Oh, I just took an injury but I don't need any tending to, because I feel my health recovering." Wat.

Also making the bandage skill more generic would be nice. As a bandage doesn't work for every type of injury. "You tend the tall, muscular man's wounds." would be much better echo than binding it with a bandage. Not sure if the code would allow for this however, what with needing bandage object.

[CodeMaster]

My problem with it is it encourages people to just sleep of their wounds. "OH shit, I'm too injured to get medical attention, better just sleep it off." or "Oh, I just took an injury but I don't need any tending to, because I feel my health recovering." Wat.

A side effect benefit of requiring a player to bandage your wounds is that it underlines the dangers (and badassery) of being a true loner, relying only on yourself.  Either you're able to competently bandage your own wounds, if you're lucky, or you have to deal with the misery of being injured on your own.

Relevant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I42_ESLXfWI

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'd like you to unable to sleep off wounds. I'd rather see medic NPCs in every civilization, with varying costs, as well as medic NPCs in clan halls. This allows someone to be healed without absolutely requiring a PC, but makes those PCs with those skills invaluable in the field.

I'd also like to see a failed attempt not injure you further. Yes, I know it could happen IRL, but not necessarily, and I think we could take that out for playability sake.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

"You tend the tall, muscular man's wounds." would be much better echo than binding it with a bandage. Not sure if the code would allow for this however, what with needing bandage object.

Yes, I'd like that. It shouldn't be an issue within the code - messages are customizable in every code base I've seen.

[WithSprinkles]

Just tossing something out there, but when injured in a certain spot and you are wearing armor or clothing over it, that item becomes bloody, right?

Well, what if when you removed that item there was a visible wound of varying severity underneath? Sparring weapons likely wouldn't cause much more than bruises unless you were dumb enough to allow someone to really set into you, but real weapons, real wounds? And then bandages, instead of disappearing when applied, would be placed over those wounds and have to be removed or peel off when the wound is healed. Essentially, layering. Wound/bandage/clothing.

Scars would be applied to characters in a more natural way through this system (automatically) and if wounds are properly tended, might be less severe in nature. If tearing occurs, then.. well.. sorry, you might get a gnarlier one. But if you leave it to the open air, you are have a chance to get an infection and fever (Sandrot?) or if it is less severe, it could scab over and look unpleasant for a while.

[MeTekillot]

"You tend the tall, muscular man's wounds." would be much better echo than binding it with a bandage. Not sure if the code would allow for this however, what with needing bandage object.

Yes, I'd like that. It shouldn't be an issue within the code - messages are customizable in every code base I've seen.

Depends on how it's coded. If it's coded to reference something like .bandage_message, then sure. But if it's written in there to return a certain echo depending on certain circumstances, that's different.

[Saellyn]

Sandrot basically kills you doesn't it? Or is that Sloughskin?

I wouldn't force that on PCs, that's not exactly something that the non-wealthy can deal with.

[Riev]

I'm down for the "injury" flag being applied, so long as its non-stacking (what in DIKU code DOES...) I do forsee some issues with losing 10% of your max health but not being able to bandage because you have to be at like 60% for the bandage code to work in the first place.


But I am EXTRA down for changing it to "you tend to <target>'s wounds"

[Saellyn]

I think "You tend to $'s wounds is much better than "You bandage $"

[WithSprinkles]

Sandrot basically kills you doesn't it? Or is that Sloughskin?

I wouldn't force that on PCs, that's not exactly something that the non-wealthy can deal with.

Oh. I didn't know sandrot was an actual thing. I was just throwing words out. 

[Saellyn]

http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Disease

An infection of the skin which causes the tissue to decay at an extraordinarily rapid pace. The causes of the infection are unknown, though it is generally a rare condition that is most commonly found amongst the desert tribes. Elves, for some reason, are immune to its effects.


Pretty sure this kills people.


Slough Skin
(Disease)

Also called Serpentskin or the Snake Curse, this illness manifests initially as patches of dry scaly skin distributed over the body. Over the course of months, this dry skin worsens and begins to flake until skin is peeling off in sheets. Many who contract this highly contagious disease will die from dehydration as their skin sloughs off wholesale and their body weeps its precious moisture into the air. This contagion is common to Vrun Driath, concentrated in Allanak and its nearby villages, and the physicians of the region typically treat it with whole body herbal poultices or herbal hot water baths for those with vast wealth.

[Tetra]

I also approve of this idea.


For some reason, the zeitgeist on the GDB is totally in favour of things that are relevant or sympatico.  It's a good thing.

[Down Under]

I approve of any idea that makes physicians less of a 'treat while horribly wounded' sort of sub-class, and more of a 'treat diseases/wounds as they come to pass'.

I think that Physicians should be able to 'practice' bandage on anyone who is less than maximum health. If someone is below half health, and you are a terrible physician, you really can risk harming or even killing them. If they are only slightly wounded, you can practice bandaging their wounds.

I hate the meta game of 'must not be able to just rest of wounds in order to practice skill'. It's a leftover from Diku's antiquated code, and it isn't realistic to an RPI mentality.

[Saellyn]

You can rp out the bandaging, but the bandaging is meant to heal serious injuries. Or tons of little ones. In Zalanthas, you wouldn't waste cloth or a bandage on something tiny. Ten somethings that are tiny, maybe.

[Beethoven]

Maybe you would if the person with the insignificant little cut was important and sensitive and whiny. But then again, that kind of person almost certainly wouldn't accept the treatment of someone who still needed to twink up their bandage skills.

[RogueGunslinger]

I really hate the "You don't have enough skill to bandage so-and-so's wounds" and the "They're not injured enough to be bandaged" bullshit.

[Down Under]

I really hate the "You don't have enough skill to bandage so-and-so's wounds" and the "They're not injured enough to be bandaged" bullshit.

[wizturbo]

Adding injuries would be cool.  I wouldn't make it based on dropping below a certain HP level, but rather being hit by massive amounts of HP loss all at once.

Get hit by a Krathi's fiery doom spell?  Injured.  Fall of the shield wall and survive?  Injured.   Get backstabbed but live?  Injured.   Ectera.

I wouldn't have injuries affect HP, but rather have it effect stun and movement, and perhaps debuff strength.    It should also be visible if you look at someone.

[Lizzie]

Pro-tip for RPing the bandage skill in a way that avoids frustration with the code:

emote measures off some of ~bandage, unrolling it quickly.

(roleplay using that piece of the bandage you just cut off the roll to tend to whatever wounds).

bandage victim

>if attempt = success
emote uses the rest of the roll to wrap the patch.

>if attempt = failure
emote tries to tie off the outer wrap but the blood-soaked ends slip off the wound, to the floor.
(roleplay tossing the dirty bloodsoaked bandage away)

>if attempt = "You don't have enough skill" or "He doesn't need to be bandaged"
put bandage pack (rolling up the remainder of the cloth strip)

[Synthesis]

Eh, the bandage skill has fucking crazy OP potential once you get good at it, if you have no scruples about playing realistically.  If you're complaining that it sucks, you clearly have never gained any skill with it whatsoever.  It's also one of the easier skills to train, since you can bandage yourself and there are any number of stupid ways to injure yourself by minor enough increments that actually dying isn't a serious concern.

...unless they nerfed it somehow in the last couple of years that I haven't really been playing.

Applying it to diseases or whatever...fine...whatever.  I think that might be a "careful what you wish for" sort of thing, though.