Modern westernized cultural values IG

[BadSkeelz]

The problem with instituting a system like that, Patuk, is that you'd have to have people essentially spec-app in to their caste ranks. That'd be an enormous headache for staff and players to set up.

Back (somewhat) on topic: Jealousy and possessiveness re: sexuality doesn't bother me. However, I wouldn't call someone a slut, unless (maybe) if they were sleeping around with people "Beneath" them. And I'd probably still phrase it differently.

[Patuk]

I'm not so sure about that. Scars are free, as are Tuluki caste tattoos. All you'd need to do is add a person to the Tuluki starter rooms to add artisan, merchant, etc caste tattoos. For those people who want to postpone it, you can let templars and people of rank in the specific caste ink the appropriate tattoos, too.

[Delirium]

Players just need to stop reacting poorly whenever someone better treats their characters as lesser.

I don't care if you've been around 1 day or 100 days, you're still a filthy commoner/halfbreed/elf/dwarf/whatever.

I don't care how many amazing things you've done, you're still an elf and that's still a noble you're talking to.

This isn't girlscout camp, this is Armageddon. Inequality is the reality and it should stay that way.

[bardlyone]

I'm not so sure about that. Scars are free, as are Tuluki caste tattoos. All you'd need to do is add a person to the Tuluki starter rooms to add artisan, merchant, etc caste tattoos. For those people who want to postpone it, you can let templars and people of rank in the specific caste ink the appropriate tattoos, too.

No idea what Tuluk is like but this sounds neato.

[whitt]

Players just need to stop reacting poorly whenever someone better treats their characters as lesser.

I don't care if you've been around 1 day or 100 days, you're still a filthy commoner/halfbreed/elf/dwarf/whatever.

I don't care how many amazing things you've done, you're still an elf and that's still a noble you're talking to.

This isn't girlscout camp, this is Armageddon. Inequality is the reality and it should stay that way.

+1

[RogueGunslinger]

The OP may not want to make vague accusations and complaints but the thread is certainly set up to allow other people to do that.

[nauta]

The OP may not want to make vague accusations and complaints but the thread is certainly set up to allow other people to do that.

I agree, the setup of this thread strikes me as bait-ish.

Everyone knows that you shouldn't have modern westernized cultural values IG.  Sometimes people make mistakes.

[Revenant]

The OP may not want to make vague accusations and complaints but the thread is certainly set up to allow other people to do that.

I agree, the setup of this thread strikes me as bait-ish.

Everyone knows that you shouldn't have modern westernized cultural values IG.  Sometimes people make mistakes.

"everyone knows"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

Further, it strikes me that possibly everyone doesn't know, possibly I don't.

[Beethoven]

I like it when fat (not just sort of curvy) people are seen as very desirable. Not everyone has to have a taste for them, of course, because everyone is different, but I've been seeing a bit more of that lately, so kudos.

[Jihelu]

For the sexuality thing...it seems to be one of the most open things ever.
Simply going "Your male bits don't get me going" could be a rather good explanation, and probably get little more than a "Okay" while in real life you have people who would question "WELL WHAT WOULD JESUS DO" (Exaggeration but I digress) so if anything, thats one of the things that don't carry over.

As stated, I really like the whole 'big people =better life/person' thing. Rome had that from what I know.
I've never seen anything regarding women, which I find a bit surprising. Nothing major like "You can't do this because you are a woman" but I've yet to hear any "Weak ass woman" comments or something of the sort, or comments on how they are decommissioned from a good portion of the year if they decide to fuck someone.

I really like it when people treat my character like shit.
Not in the 'dickish' sort of way. But the whole 'I am literally better than you get out of the way' type.

[RogueGunslinger]

I'm not really sure if I like the big=beautiful thing. It has decent RL cultural basis but at the same time I imagine Zalanthans to be much more practical about carrying extra weight, and being physically capable. I think instead of thinking of fat people as attractive it would be more like you associate fat people with nobility, intelligence and wealth. You wouldn't short-change a fat merchant because you'd perceive them as above you in status. You wouldn't talk over someone who's got a bit of heft to them, because if they're smart enough to keep that well fed, they're probably smarter than you.

See a fat 'rinther? They're more capable and worth talking to than the half-starved kinds, they would be more worth your business, but you wouldn't find their weight attractive.

[Jeax]

Oh, western presuppositions are all over Armageddon play.

Think about how the majority of people react to slaves in Allanak. Even my first reaction to seeing slaves IG was "Don't you want to be free?" (I didn't say this IG, fortunately) -- but this happens some. In addition, people *do* treat women differently IG, it's just not as obvious as saying "You hit like a girl!". Pay attention, women are definitely treated differently and in a very modern, western way. The whole "problem with authority" thing does also come out a lot. We, as westerners, just have no concept of what it's like to truly believe that someone is born above you, so it's very difficult to RP it, especially when American culture has a very "you can't tell me what to do"/"I make my own way"/etc theme inside of it anyway. In addition, American culture is all about "tolerance and equality" -- it's the very basis for our evolving moral system, and those beliefs have absolutely no place in Armageddon. Another example is the taking of "mates" and the jealousy and drama that develops therein. I'm sure there are other examples I'm missing. Some of them are quite subtle.

But, how can you truly lose all of your presuppositions when you enter the game world? Is it an impossibility of the game, to have rules that are so far from what our roots are? Can we really get into the mindset, and defeat generations of outlook? It's a really challenging thing, and it's all over the place.

Fortunately, I don't find it to affect the game in a negative way too often. Some people are just bad players, but that's a different issue. Instead, what ends up happening is that Armageddon world is actually just a little bit different than what the docs say, because we can't really get to what the docs say, for the most part.

Edit: Another interesting piece here is, think of the Highlord, and the Sun King...why are the two most powerful beings in the world (and thus leaders) male? Why isn't there a Sun Queen or some such? Presuppositions, and very subtle thoughts, most likely.

[Molten Heart]

As far as practicality when it comes to attractive females. A woman with more "fat" would be a better mate for breeding. However Zalanthas isn't like RL where there is a biological drive to reproduce. If the same were to hold true for Zalanthas, a "healthy" looking type of fat woman might be considered attractive.

[BadSkeelz]

However Zalanthas isn't like RL where there is a biological drive to reproduce

say whaaaa?

[Jeax]

However Zalanthas isn't like RL where there is a biological drive to reproduce

say whaaaa?

Say wha indeed. In RL we are actually losing our drive to reproduce, due to overpopulation (see google for studies to this effect, regarding a great many of topics from sexual preference to male isolation)--Zalanthas is not overpopulated. People die every day, and people are aware of this fact. People are just too busy surviving to worry about it. In reality, though, I think most of the women in Zalanthas would be constantly pregnant.

Edit: Also, the docs clearly state that Zalanthans are obsessed with survival. This would likely spread to the species as well. Sort of like the biological incentive not to murder--except the biological incentives are apparently different in Zalanthan races, because people murder a dying species all the time.

[RogueGunslinger]

We're definitely losing our drive to reproduce, however that has less to do with overpopulation(which isn't something I think is happening) and more to do with wealth, income, and standards of living.

[Jeax]

I think another problem here is that we view, in our minds, the idea that a woman should be barefoot and pregnant at home with the kids as "sexist". Nothing in Zalanthas would say that this is sexist--if it's a reality of the species, since, you know, women are the only gender that can have new babies pop out of them...it would just be a fact of life to say that a woman's place is at home. It doesn't mean she's inferior. But, what a reaction you would get IRL for saying that.

That being said, you see almost 0 women IG portray this sort of lifestyle, mostly because nobody wants to RP a poor homemaker, I'd guess. Realistically speaking, though, if women acted as they do in Zalanthas, the races would just go extinct.

[Talia]

I think another problem here is that we view, in our minds, the idea that a woman should be barefoot and pregnant at home with the kids as "sexist". Nothing in Zalanthas would say that this is sexist--if it's a reality of the species, since, you know, women are the only gender that can have new babies pop out of them...it would just be a fact of life to say that a woman's place is at home. It doesn't mean she's inferior. But, what a reaction you would get IRL for saying that.

That being said, you see almost 0 women IG portray this sort of lifestyle, mostly because nobody wants to RP a poor homemaker, I'd guess. Realistically speaking, though, if women acted as they do in Zalanthas, the races would just go extinct.

[Jeax]

I think another problem here is that we view, in our minds, the idea that a woman should be barefoot and pregnant at home with the kids as "sexist". Nothing in Zalanthas would say that this is sexist--if it's a reality of the species, since, you know, women are the only gender that can have new babies pop out of them...it would just be a fact of life to say that a woman's place is at home. It doesn't mean she's inferior. But, what a reaction you would get IRL for saying that.

That being said, you see almost 0 women IG portray this sort of lifestyle, mostly because nobody wants to RP a poor homemaker, I'd guess. Realistically speaking, though, if women acted as they do in Zalanthas, the races would just go extinct.

I am confused what this means your stance is   Do you hate me now because I am a misogynistic pig-man?

Edit: Also, can I please play a person that can read/write that does nothing but publish existentialist papers? (lol) That sounds silly, but actually--having done a decent bit of reading into the realm of existentialism and theology, it would be quite interesting to try to philosophize within a world that is not my own. That would get pretty interesting, much like the guy that runs the economy system for EVE, but more thought-provoking. Of course, I'm not sure who my target audience would be, since Zalanthans really give no value to reason as a Greek culture would. Probably also means such a person would not really exist. So I guess there goes my idea.

[Barzalene]

I think for me, the hardest thing to divorce myself from is the western belief in merit. That you work hard and good things result. As a leader I favor the minions who get the job done. As a minion I want to be effective, and be praised for it.

[Talia]

I think for me, the hardest thing to divorce myself from is the western belief in merit. That you work hard and good things result. As a leader I favor the minions who get the job done. As a minion I want to be effective, and be praised for it.

This is a really great insight. Zalanthas is so intensely not a meritocracy, and it's really difficult for most players to adjust to that.

Do you hate me now because I am a misogynistic pig-man?

No.

[wizturbo]

The whole mate and jealousy thing isn't a western thing, it's a HUMAN thing.   Humans of most cultures throughout history pair up into couples.  Whether or not they stay together for life is really culturally dependent.  

And humans are also envious and jealous of all kinds of things, sex, money, ability, etc.  It's perfectly IC from a Zalanthian perspective to be jealous if someone is banging the same person as you, if your character is a naturally jealous person.  Being a jealous person is not universally the norm though.  It's a more uncommon trait in Zalanthas.  The saying "I caught her sleeping with another man" would not be viewed as some kind of kind of deviant act or accusation.  It might piss your PC off, but no one else would care at all or think it was somehow wrong.

[Barzalene]

The whole mate and jealousy thing isn't a western thing, it's a HUMAN thing.   Humans of most cultures throughout history pair up into couples.  Whether or not they stay together for life is really culturally dependent.  

And humans are also envious and jealous of all kinds of things, sex, money, ability, etc.  It's perfectly IC from a Zalanthian perspective to be jealous if someone is banging the same person as you, if your character is a naturally jealous person.  Being a jealous person though is not universally the norm though.  It's a more uncommon trait in Zalanthas.  The saying "I caught her sleeping with another man" would not be viewed as some kind of kind of deviant act or accusation.  It might piss your PC off, but no one else would care at all or think it was somehow wrong.

I agree. Even in a polygamist relationship this would apply.

[Down Under]

I'm confused how Zalanthas isn't a meritocracy. It seems most tribes are ruled in this fashion. In the cities if you aren't productive you aren't getting anywhere fast.

[Jihelu]

I'm confused how Zalanthas isn't a meritocracy. It seems most tribes are ruled in this fashion. In the cities if you aren't productive you aren't getting anywhere fast.

Wouldn't meritocracy not use 'noble birth=better than everyone' and only do strictly 'only people that can function good = better than everyone'