Modern westernized cultural values IG

[Revenant]

I will try not to state an opinion one way or the other on this subject, nor will I make the question less vague. Instead, I'd like to hear the thoughts of the GDB on the way real life, culturally ingrained personal values end up being expressed in game, and on how appropriate various concepts may or may not be to the setting. Possibly selfish of me to conceal my own viewpoint, so, thoughts? What is and is not appropriate to carry over, across all possible topics? Why or why not?

[Malken]

Constantly referring to elves as "Jews" ICly is not okay.

"That 'rinthi jew stole from me the other day!" or "Don't sleep with that tall jew over there, he's a Nakki thief and everyone knows it."

[CodeMaster]

This thread might turn into a thread full of vague and anonymous accusations if we're not careful.

How about instead we talk about examples of where people have done a great job?


My input:  I once saw a character who was injured, and he sealed his cuts by filling them with grit and dirt.  Showed a complete disregard for western medicine that I sometimes forget about in the game.

[Revenant]

This thread might turn into a thread full of vague and anonymous accusations if we're not careful.

How about instead we talk about examples of where people have done a great job?


My input:  I once saw a character who was injured, and he sealed his cuts by filling them with grit and dirt.  Showed a complete disregard for western medicine that I sometimes forget about in the game.

How about we talk about both? And great example, kudos.

EDIT: There's a reason I'm not giving my personal viewpoint, or pointing out positive examples from certain officially submitted logs here, and that's because I'm avoiding making any vague or anonymous accusations, even in a roundabout way. I've already gone through the appropriate channels on those, it wasn't a concern, apparently, and I'm starting to think maybe my concept of the game-world is the one that's skewed.

[Barzalene]

Sergeant Dowan? and the militia at that  time,  used to treat undesirables with a brilliant casual  disdain. No seats at the bar? Move a breed. Slow night? Beat an elf. But it was all in a day's work.

[wizturbo]

Role-playing is a skill like any other.  Most of us start with Role-play (novice).  

We start with what we know in real life, and then as our RP chops improve, we start to get rid of excess baggage from the real world and get more and more in character.

People who are new to role playing are naturally going to have some of their RL values spill over until they reach at least Role-Play (Apprentice).  The best way to address this is to help people skill up by setting a great example, or perhaps responding ICly to make it evident they've made a Role-Play (novice) mistake.

[Riev]

When I first started, I slept in the streets to get stamina back, I fought hard and slept off the damage, and I pretended to be myself.

Now, I know better.

Now, I sleep in the streets because I don't own an apartment. I fight hard because the Byn trains hard. I pretend to be someone with personality quirks similar to myself to explore my own being.


Now I know better.

[BadSkeelz]

Is this about gay characters? I suspect this is about gay characters.

[Molten Heart]

Is this about gay characters? I suspect this is about gay characters.

Probably, and straight characters.

[Delirium]

ArmageddonMUD: one of the few places where it is NOT okay for a female character to be anything but bisexual or gay.

edit: I'm joking. Mostly. I've seen this attitude in game, and it strikes me as ironically funny.

[Revenant]

Is this about gay characters? I suspect this is about gay characters.

Probably, and straight characters.

I never said what instances it might be about, nor are the particulars of my experiences very important here. Also, I already said I'm not going to go lobbing vague, accusatory statements.

[valeria]

Arm is not real life.  There are no modern, westernized values in game.  Only Zalanthan values.  And we know what those are because of documentation.  It's appropriate to carry values consistent with the docs and not appropriate to retain your RL prejudices just because you have them.  

[BadSkeelz]

Then this thread's gone about as far as it's going to get. I think wizturbo's post about RP and RL values is spot on:

People who are new to role playing are naturally going to have some of their RL values spill over until they reach at least Role-Play (Apprentice).  The best way to address this is to help people skill up by setting a great example, or perhaps responding ICly to make it evident they've made a Role-Play (novice) mistake.

Armageddon's world depth and complexity make this easy to do. My favorite example of someone making a mistake like this is when I had a thief in the jail cells who claimed he got pinched while trying to steal a chicken.

[Malken]

Is it about how many assume that if your PC has almond-shaped eyes then they assume that you don't know how to drive a wagon?

[Down Under]

Disregarding modern concept of Medicine is one of the hardest things to get away from, especially with Houses like Dasari in existence. I've seen Dasari Nobles do an excellent job with approximating 'what might be right' but is totally crazy and backwards from how we think in the modern, western world. I've seen others adapt more Eastern techniques of 'healing' and I felt that was more appropriate too. I have a feeling their documentation outlines this pretty well -- You aren't a scientist in the western sense of the word, but a tinkerer in an ancient, messed up old-technology-got-destroyed sort of way.

I think racism translates pretty directly, except sexism usually worms its way in as well. As we know, sexism isn't a thing in Zalanthas. Women are considered just as capable as men in all respects. However, our sexist values still translate somewhat, even perpetuated by f-me PCs that demean themselves, rather than be demeaned. That isn't to say all women should be playing buff warriors, but comments here and there, and thought processes are difficult to overcome when we are indoctrinated in it from our youth.

[BadSkeelz]

Arm is not real life.  There are no modern, westernized values in game.  Only Zalanthan values.  And we know what those are because of documentation.  It's appropriate to carry values consistent with the docs and not appropriate to retain your RL prejudices just because you have them.  

i will confess that i really do hate magicians and elves in RL and apologize for bringing my RL attitudes to armageddon.

[Marauder Moe]

I always found it a little strange how every single pregnant PC suddenly develops an allergy to alcohol.

[Barzalene]

I always found it a little strange how every single pregnant PC suddenly develops an allergy to alcohol.

Happily not every. (But a significant majority, its too true.)

[wizturbo]

I always found it a little strange how every single pregnant PC suddenly develops an allergy to alcohol.

Gotta save up coin to pay for that spice addiction.

[Patuk]

Everyone who gets pissy whenever the person they're banging looks at somebody else wrong is the first thing to come to mind. The docs are very clear about promiscuity being common, but I still notice people referring to sleeping with other people as betrayal.

It also still is really hard playing a low-class PC in Tuluk. Every time I try, some people too good for this sinful earth express their disappointment and insist that I 'make something of myself' and 'leave that kind of life behind,' the implication being that my PC would have a shot at that, or that social mobility is something positive.

Tuluk is not an equalist, democratic society. Tuluk is a military dictatorship with a rigid caste system. People born to noble parents should remain noble. People born in poverty remain like so. Poor people being poor, stealing things, and getting into trouble isn't some kind of great social tragedy or injustice, it's nature working its intended course and things going well.

[Down Under]

I agree -- The castes should (especially with the lack of Grey Hunt) be much more rigid. There's always this sense that you can 'make something of yourself' when you are a Commoner -- It'd be nice if it felt less like climbing the corporate ladder in America, and being lifted out of your caste was truly a remarkable thing, not taken for granted.

[Molten Heart]

Everyone who gets pissy whenever the person they're banging looks at somebody else wrong is the first thing to come to mind. The docs are very clear about promiscuity being common, but I still notice people referring to sleeping with other people as betrayal.

It also still is really hard playing a low-class PC in Tuluk. Every time I try, some people too good for this sinful earth express their disappointment and insist that I 'make something of myself' and 'leave that kind of life behind,' the implication being that my PC would have a shot at that, or that social mobility is something positive.

Tuluk is not an equalist, democratic society. Tuluk is a military dictatorship with a rigid caste system. People born to noble parents should remain noble. People born in poverty remain like so. Poor people being poor, stealing things, and getting into trouble isn't some kind of great social tragedy or injustice, it's nature working its intended course and things going well.

It'd be interesting if people in Tuluk tried to keep people oppressed rather than encouranging them to better themselves. I mean some people are just born better, you know? ;-)

[Barzalene]

If Bobby is really alright for a breed, that doesn't make hi. One of the guys. It just means you're less likely to trip him on the steps, for a laugh.  In my opinion.

[BadSkeelz]

It would be interesting if Tuluk had a real caste system and not just a re-titled class system. Where you'd specapp in as a Hunter and, so long as you're in Tuluk, that is all you ever can be. But this might just me taking my RL conception of what a caste system should be like and applying it to a Zalanthan system that happens to have the same name.

[Patuk]

This may be not quite the right thread for this tangent, but I do think the commoner caste could use an expansion. A poor dwarf beggar, House Kadius' head, and Rusarla's master bard are all in the same formal caste. To use earth's most famous caste system as an example, India's caste system often came with ranks. A low-ranked kshatriya would be labeled a soldier, whereas a high-ranked kshatriya would be a ruler. I do not think Tuluk needs an exact copy, but I do think a lot of people need to be reminded thatlayabouts being useless is probably not a bad thing in the eyes of most other people.