Opinion on magick as a feature of the game

[wizturbo]

As I said: doing something /only/ because the top dog is bored is a bad idea and a game ruiner. You don't change a game just to appease the veterans. You change a game because the game needs changing. What the veterans like might be considered in weighing the good with the bad when it comes to decision-making time, but it shouldn't be the only reason for change. Also, many veterans have returned lately. So I'm not too worried about veterans who left.

Being one of the veterans who left, I can say I came back because the game was changed.  The term "appease" has so many negative connotations.  The staff did what any good group of leaders does.  It listened to feedback from the community, and adjusted things accordingly.  Personally, I came back because I saw that PCs were able to create their own families, tribes and later clans...which has consistently been my #1 wish for the game.  Not only that, the process by which one can create these things makes a lot of sense and seems well thought out.  If veteran players are saying anything in the game is stale, that should be a red flag to consider.  

With that said, I don't think the majority of veteran players think the magick system is stale.  My only criticism of the magick system is that the progression of coded capabilities for a magick user doesn't have as long of a tail as mundanes.  For instance, a 30 day warrior is significantly more badass than a 15 day warrior.  Likewise, a 60 day warrior is still noticeably more badass than a 30 day one.  Magick users don't really follow that progression curve.  While coded power progression is hardly the #1 motivation for an RPI, it is fun to have your character get stronger or have more options become available to them over time.  Once that progression stops, it can make the game less exciting.

[Armaddict]

I do not want magick removed from the game.  I think magick right now is appropriate.

The only thing that makes me 'anti-magick' is when people talk about making it more prevalent and say it should be used -more- in plots and etc.

I do not want mundanes to become dependent on mages.  I do not want 'We need to hire a mage' to become a common occurrence.  Right now it's not.  That is appropriate.

[nauta]

Hi,

I'm not sure how the magic system works, but I suspect what makes it 'stale' is that once you've figured out a given gick-kind spell list, then that gick-kind is no longer mysterious to you - it's hard to forget that information, especially if you wrote it down.  

What would be neat is if the spell lists rotated - perhaps there could be like five sets of spell lists for a given gick-kind that rotated out randomly every few years.  

There's an analogy here with poisons and cures, and I've noticed IG (from just limited experience here) that these things actually -do- shift - new poisons are made and some of the old cures no longer are effective.  I don't know if that is a bug or if that is the intended effect, but it sure does make it cool and open ended. 

Actually, unrelated to the topic at hand, but related to the analogy, I do wish more people had to find out IC about how to make pills and taints - a lot of people learn this at some point early on in their career and then it is super easy just to build into your background that you know it already.  But really you should have to find a Dasari or highly trained physician to figure that stuff out, like what the pills do and how to make them.  (Or I'm wrong.)

[MeTekillot]

I wish there was code to 'teach' recipes to people.

[Delirium]

taints

POISONS. THEY'RE POISONS. WHY CAN'T PEOPLE JUST CALL THEM POISON WHARGARBLKLJDFSLAKJFSLKAJFSDLKJL

p.s. magick is fine.

[wizturbo]

Hi,

I'm not sure how the magic system works, but I suspect what makes it 'stale' is that once you've figured out a given gick-kind spell list, then that gick-kind is no longer mysterious to you - it's hard to forget that information, especially if you wrote it down.  

That's not really it for me.  In fact, I love the fact that I know how certain magick classes progress, as it lets me teach others ICly.  Magick is fine as it is.  

Would it be cool if less people knew what each magicker can do?  Yes...  But as some have said in this thread,  people tend to think they know more they they really do about magick.  Of course, over time, even those more esoteric aspects of magick will become known.  I think it would be cool if new magicky stuff was added periodically to keep everyone on their toes, and make even veteran magicker players a little uncertain. One new spell per element, even if it meant retiring an existing spell, would be awesome.  It would be even MORE awesome if that new spell was created ICly...but that's a tall order.

[Jingo]

You know back in the day, poisons and poisoning was considered a field of sorcery? Like a sort of 'black magick', if you will.

Maybe it should be treated like it in Zalanthas?

[Majikal]

You know back in the day, poisons and poisoning was considered a field of sorcery? Like a sort of 'black magick', if you will.

Maybe it should be treated like it in Zalanthas?

As awesome as this would be, too much of a culture shock to how things are currently.

I do wish poisons got looked at a bit more harshly than they are right now.

[HavokBlue]

Pretty sure at least one city-state considers poisons to be illegal contraband?

[RogueGunslinger]

Whatever a Templar says in the moment is illegal, is illegal. Whatever someone who's more powerful says is wrong, is wrong. Sort of a soldiers discretion thing. They will crack down on a 'rinther with poison, might crack down on an indie hunter with stockpiles of poison, but the Salarri hunter? Doubtful.

[Hot_Dancer]

There's one less thing to do for any class when building skills/spells is no longer an efficient activity for a player/character's time.

Anyone can pretty much one-shot anyone after X-days played/skills/poisons gained anyways. I'm not sure more hardcoded content is the fix for bored mages.

More plots for mages sounds good. More plots always sounds good.

Sometimes Zalanthas doesn't seem flexible or very interactive and a mage may not have a strong social circle to fall back on for events. Said situation is rarely an easy fix for any isolated PC.

I'm not sure what advice to give here as I've eventually lost/stored in about 100% of these events with mundanes. Perhaps better character structuring/building a potential predetermined endgame into a character are key (should they survive the mid).

An old highly advanced character who no longer interacts with the gameworld is less valuable than bright eyes in fresh boots.

[Aruven]

I've noticed quite a few posts that seem that air a rather negative opinion on magick, magick use, and magickers in general on the GDB. I am wondering if this may be a vocal minority, or if the playerbase is for whatever reason taking to a dislike of magick in general, or if I am just making assumptions.

It's just the hate-cycle turning.

Magickers that play the game have one place to go, really, or anyone remotely new to the game won't be playing one for more than a day. Staff support outside of those options is pretty much non-existent inside a city.

Generally people with Karma exhibit better roleplay than other PCs in game, that doesn't make magick perfect (or often times enjoyable).

I like the current balance, I have however generally seen horrible things happen.

Sometimes people just get sick of stereotypes being true.

[Norcal]

I've noticed quite a few posts that seem that air a rather negative opinion on magick, magick use, and magickers in general on the GDB. I am wondering if this may be a vocal minority, or if the playerbase is for whatever reason taking to a dislike of magick in general, or if I am just making assumptions. What is your opinion on magick's place in game and how frequent it is?

I would think it is a vocal minority.  I do not have any stats, but it seems like a relatively small number of people post quite a lot on the GDB. I don't think the majority of the active player base posts here too often.

The magic system could probably do with a few changes, and I think it would be good to have a broader set of options available for someone who is new to the system or wants to play something besides a rouge, nasty gicker. Yet besides that, I think it is balanced, especially since Sorcs got nerfed  sorry. Remodeled. Some classes of mage have a lot of power, and can be hard to kill, but the restrictions the face make them hard to play. It may seem like easy mode when seen from a distance, but it's not.  At least not anymore.

[Down Under]

Even so, the voting speaks for itself. Most people are fine with Magick the way it is.

[Quell]

I spend about .1% of my arm-playing time interacting with the magic system. I imagine a lot of people are in the same boat and thus didn't feel like posting any comments, positive or negative.

[Eyeball]

Even so, the voting speaks for itself. Most people are fine with Magick the way it is.

Probably the ones who don't play mages.

[ABoredLion]

I always thought it'd be an interesting design to have it just be like 1% or so of applications will randomly emerge, and that otherwise, you pick a role. And if you emerge, BAM alot of your skills gone. I just think the RP would be stronger. You would build a background and lifestyle to this character that really DOES get flipped on its head the second he throws up his hands in fear when that scrab comes running, only to peak open his eyes and see four stone walls trapping it inside, eh? But then again, I do like the current fold of magickers, and I do like that it's a low percent of the population. My only hope is that it's still possible codedly or through RP for magick to come to those not starting with it. No spoilers, or anything, I just have that odd hope in the back of my head. That aside, I do think maybe some expanded upon gickery for more mundane life things would be nice. And I say this from the standpoint of only having seen limited magick so I admit, it may be much more expansive than I have knowledge of.

[CodeMaster]

I always thought it'd be an interesting design to have it just be like 1% or so of applications will randomly emerge, and that otherwise, you pick a role. And if you emerge, BAM alot of your skills gone. I just think the RP would be stronger. You would build a background and lifestyle to this character that really DOES get flipped on its head the second he throws up his hands in fear when that scrab comes running, only to peak open his eyes and see four stone walls trapping it inside, eh? But then again, I do like the current fold of magickers, and I do like that it's a low percent of the population. My only hope is that it's still possible codedly or through RP for magick to come to those not starting with it. No spoilers, or anything, I just have that odd hope in the back of my head. That aside, I do think maybe some expanded upon gickery for more mundane life things would be nice. And I say this from the standpoint of only having seen limited magick so I admit, it may be much more expansive than I have knowledge of.

This is a cool sentiment.  Part of what makes the RP on Arm nail-bitingly good is that we share our character's lack of knowledge in a lot of cases.

1. For instance, if I walk my character out into the desert, he doesn't know whether or not he will survive, and neither does anyone else (even me).  There are an immense number of variables at play; 'skill' and 'luck' become real things.

2. If my character wakes up in a Tuluki dungeon cell, I have no idea whether he'll live through the interrogation, or even whether he'll be deemed interesting enough to interrogate.  What I say and what the other players involved know or think they know is everything.

3. Say someone's hidden in the same room as me.  My character doesn't know he's there, and I don't know he's there either.  I won't be OOCly tempted to alter his behavior for the sake of my voyeur.

Contrast this with a MUSH, where all participants kind of have to agree with each other on all the variables at play in a given scene, and even a set (or singleton) of possible outcomes.  It would be really cool to add "unmanifested supernatural abilities" to the list, albeit probably a pipe dream.

[FantasyWriter]

I'm shocked to see these pole results...  I was expecting a lot more magick hate when it came to a vote...i guess the magick haters are just a vocal minority on the GDB.

[RogueGunslinger]

Or maybe the poll's questions don't get to the heart of what many people's problems with magickers are. Or maybe you're just remembering the complaining from a time when magickers were really prevalent.

Or maybe you're taking simple criticisms about something as "hate" when in reality people just like different things, and like to express those differences of opinion.

[wizturbo]

Or maybe the poll's questions don't get to the heart of what many people's problems with magickers are. Or maybe you're just remembering the complaining from a time when magickers were really prevalent.

Or maybe you're taking simple criticisms about something as "hate" when in reality people just like different things, and like to express those differences of opinion.

Or, Occam's razor...  The poll is an accurate representation of what people feel about magick, and most people are happy with the current levels of it in the game?

[RogueGunslinger]

You don't see a problem with blanketing everyone's problems with magickers under "There should be more or less of it."?

My problems with magick has nothing to do with the frequency it is seen, but rather how magickers are treated by normal people, and how accepted gemmed magickers are, and peoples interactions with magick in unrealistic manners... And all sorts of other things that have nothing to do with wanting to see more or less magick.

I picked the poll option "I'm fine with the amount of magick in the game." Because I am.

[MeTekillot]

When I talked about GDB posts hating on magickers, I was talking about the posts that called them "cheating assholes" and stuff like that.

[Desertman]

My only complaint about magick is I do not like the idea that a single player, regardless of their karma level, has the absolute ability to insta-gank someone's long-lived character any time they feel like it no matter where they are.

When they have what amounts to a "Staff Powered Worldwide Delete Button" at their disposal, that is too much power in the hands of a player in my opinion.

I admit I am biased to this because I have fallen victim to it before. A few changes have gone in to make it less likely since then, and I am glad about that.

I do feel that those sorts of things need to be removed from the game entirely though. I can't imagine much they add to the game but I can think of an entire list of reasons why that sort of thing shouldn't exist.

My butthurt aside, they make mundane assassins completely obsolete in every single way.

[Delirium]

My only complaint about magick is I do not like the idea that a single player, regardless of their karma level, has the absolute ability to insta-gank someone's long-lived character any time they feel like it no matter where they are.

This is no longer true.