HGs should...

[Harmless]

Half giants by virtue of their height and legs can walk from room to room very fast. Outdoors this makes sense.

Indoors I see them as having to shuffle around an awful lot. They are almost always fitting into caves or establishments designed for human sized occupants. Unless running (which would be a bull in a china shop charge) they should go from room to room much more slowly.

Secondary idea: if running from room to room indoors, have a random chance to knock objects like furniture or other things loose on the ground into the next room like a carru and reset the ldesc.

[MeTekillot]

Getting bashed by an HG should honestly knock you into another room like a high-skill disarm does to weapons.

[Down Under]

Getting bashed by an HG should honestly knock you into another room like a high-skill disarm does to weapons.

[RogueGunslinger]

And getting kicked should pulverize pretty much anything living instantly, shattering bones irreparably.

[Lizzie]

Seeing how hgs aren't very bright, there's nothing in the docs indicating that they would even try to be careful entering and exiting and moving around in buildings so it won't necessarily occur to them to do so. I'm thinking whenever a hg steps into a bar, everyone in the bar would a) notice and b) make sure they're not in the hg's way so as to avoid getting trampled/crushed against a wall in his path. The hg "should" just do whatever the hg does. Everyone else should respond accordingly.

[Harmless]

True, but they move from room to room so rapidly indoors that it seems like it should be damaging something. That is 1000+ lbs, minimum, going at the speed of an elf. People automatically get out of the way but objects can't.

HGs should also be careful not to damage public property because even though they aren't bright they know what the law is basically. Hence the idea that when running they become less conscientious.

Also this is code discussion so I am just posting my ideas here for how the code can be more realistic. I know a lot of HGs already RP lots of ducking and shuffling and it would be cool if the code reflected this. If they want to go fast they could still run.

[Jihelu]

Maybe have it so half giants have to 'sneak' around inside. Sneak meaning, just being more careful, otherwise it mentions them bumping into patrons/knocking over a stool/falling onto someone and injuring both of them.

I like the idea of the outside movement though, considering how massive they are.

[Lizzie]

They're not moving fast. They have longer strides. For every ONE step, walking, that a HG does, an elf is probably RUNNING 3 steps.

[Saellyn]

Get me the height-weight chart of an HG because I'm almost positive they're not 1,000 pounds.

[Saellyn]

Half-giants appear much like a human, but with highly exaggerated features, and skin tones which sometimes go into the reds. Half-giants stand roughly between 125 and 155 inches tall.

That's only about 80 inches taller than the average human, who comes out weighing at the most 9 ten-stone, which is 90 stone which is -ABOUT- 180-200 pounds give or take? Even 20 ten-stone is only 200 stone which is only 440 pounds. Unless a half-giant weights literally 45 ten-stone, they are NOT 1,000 pounds.

[racurtne]

Half-giants appear much like a human, but with highly exaggerated features, and skin tones which sometimes go into the reds. Half-giants stand roughly between 125 and 155 inches tall.

That's only about 80 inches taller than the average human, who comes out weighing at the most 9 ten-stone, which is 90 stone which is -ABOUT- 180-200 pounds give or take? Even 20 ten-stone is only 200 stone which is only 440 pounds. Unless a half-giant weights literally 45 ten-stone, they are NOT 1,000 pounds.

80 ten-stone is middling range for a half-giant. Yeah.

[Saellyn]

80 TEN stone?

Okay, so the MIDDLING range for a half-giant is almost 2,000 pounds. 1760 to be exact.

[racurtne]

80 TEN stone?

Okay, so the MIDDLING range for a half-giant is almost 2,000 pounds. 1760 to be exact.

Yeah. They are massively heavy. It always irks me when people shrug off a HG punch like it was nothing. Don't want to start a debate on this, but yeah, pet peeve.

[Saellyn]

Uhh. That might be because we don't have knowledge of their middling range, but yeah. Something that weight 1700 pounds punching you is going to fucking kill you. Not wound. Not injure. KILL.

[RogueGunslinger]

Hence previous threads wanting to make half-giants more combat-badass.

They should be able to wield a fallen tree to smash 3-5 people into bloodied pulp in one swipe.

[Marauder Moe]

You can't use a linear conversion rate from height to weight.

When you scale a 3-dimensional object's size, it's mass increases by that scale CUBED.

So twice as tall means 8 times as heavy (2^3=8).  90kg * 8 = 720kg (1578 lbs).

Also consider that, proportionally, half-giants tend towards heavier builds than humans.

[Narf]

I'm not really sure I'd trust people's estimations of half-giants physical capabilities. I mean we have 1500 pound animals in the real world, and while they're dangerous they're not unstoppable engines of destruction.

Large animals can also sneak up on smaller things, behave gracefully, and be beaten up or survived by smaller animals.

I mean if you imagine yourself as a half-giant and a small dog (20lbs) as a person. If you punch a dog that size, it'll hurt but it's not gonna kill them. What's more you can sneak up on it if you know what you're doing.

Granted, half-giants probably shouldn't be blending into crowds very well, but sneaking through shadows is certainly doable.

[Saellyn]

If a donkey rears its leg up and kicks you, it's going to hurt a lot. If it kicks you somewhere soft and squishy, it's really going to hurt, and donkeys aren't that heavy. If a half-giant cocks his arm back and smashes a big meaty fist into your face it's probably going to do as much as break or shatter something.

[Lizzie]

If a donkey rears its leg up and kicks you, it's going to hurt a lot. If it kicks you somewhere soft and squishy, it's really going to hurt, and donkeys aren't that heavy. If a half-giant cocks his arm back and smashes a big meaty fist into your face it's probably going to do as much as break or shatter something.

However, for playability's sake, this isn't true. If it were true, half-giants wouldn't be able to spar with anyone, ever, including other half-giants. Best to just not tell people how to RP and if you see something you think is wrong, send a player complaint. If it's a new player (as opposed to a new character) you could remind him about stun loss. If he's "near death" from a single hit and gets back up and demands another shot in the sparring ring, a reminder (even an IC reminder, not OOC) that he was just nearly killed by a creature 10x his size in a single shot might be appropriate.

If an IC reminder doesn't work, send a player complaint. Or treat it ICly and accuse him of being a magicker, or an undead creature who can't be killed because he's already dead

[Saellyn]

I didn't start the thread, other people did. I'm just saying based on Racurtne's thoughts that shrugging off an HGs punch like it was nothing, agreeably, is very weird.

[MeTekillot]

Square cube law means a giant punching a human carries exponentially more force than a human punching a small dog, doesn't it?

[RogueGunslinger]

Yes, but it's much, much more complicated than even that. Form, muscle/bone density, bone structure, there's more to factor in than just mass(for a real life comparison a Female fighter at 135 pounds is going to have a lot less impact in their punch than a male of the same weight). Add in that a half-giant is magically put together and that a giant in the real world would never be able to hold itself together under its own weight...

Making simple comparisons like that seems rather pointless.

[Narf]

Great, Math. Allright, here we go:

Assume mass correlates directly with force produced.

10kg (small dog) = 1 unit of force

80kg (person) = 8 units of force

800kg (large half giant) = 80 units of force

The human receives 80 units of force as opposed to the 8 he's used to.

But that force is spread over a larger area, which means the kg/square inch value of that 80 units of force is divided by the height ratio squared (4) so that 80 units of force would be the equivalent of being hit four different places with 20 units of force.

So assume it's like getting hit in four different places by a human that's a little over twice as strong as normal. Granted, this would hurt like a son of a gun, but it's not nearly on the level that some people seem to be picturing.

This all assumes of course that strength perfectly correlates with mass, which it does not. In the real world this is an overestimate of how hard a half-giant would hit.

[Narf]

Add in that a half-giant is magically put together and that a giant in the real world would never be able to hold itself together under its own weight...

Errr, what? You do know we have things bigger than half-giants in the real world right? Elephants can get up to 7000kg, that's several times the size of a half-giant.

[Marauder Moe]

Square cube law means a giant punching a human carries exponentially more force than a human punching a small dog, doesn't it?

Eh.  That's not really what it means...

It just means that the 12' tall half giant's fist/arm probably weighs at least 8 times as much as the human's fist.

All things being equal, the relative mass is what would matter in terms of knocking something across the room.


However... all things are not equal.  Biologically speaking, there are anatomic principles that don't scale linearly with height/mass.  Due to this fact, a half giant's strength in proportion to its mass is probably LESS than that of a human, just like a human's strength in proportion it its mass is less than that of an ant.

(This seems to have a fairly simple explanation: http://www.ftexploring.com/think/superbugs_p2.html )

[RogueGunslinger]

Add in that a half-giant is magically put together and that a giant in the real world would never be able to hold itself together under its own weight...

Errr, what? You do know we have things bigger than half-giants in the real world right? Elephants can get up to 7000kg, that's several times the size of a half-giant.

I wasn't very clear I suppose, note that I said giant, not half-giant. Also the frame of an elephant is made to support their bulk, I'm not so sure a humanoid frame would work for something the size of a half-giant.

[Patuk]

It wouldn't, at least not to scale. (Half) giants probably have relatively short, if highly thick legs.

[Saellyn]

What's the tallest a half-giant can be? These are numbers I need to know. I need to know the middle range for their heights and weights.

[Jihelu]

What's the tallest a half-giant can be? These are numbers I need to know. I need to know the middle range for their heights and weights.

I think the max in inches is near 12.9 feet.

[Saellyn]

So they're.... somewhere between 10-13 feet. Okay. So 11.5. They weigh 1,700 pounds at the middle of their height. There you go. Do your math.

[X-D]

What always amuses me when people get into this discussion is that they always forget that humans are actually bound by a harmful mutation causing severe muscle weakness (of course this might also be how we were able to grow big brains) And that in fact, almost all mammals, pound for pound are 4-8 times stronger then us.

I have always wondered if the reason HG are so stupid is because they only have half of this mutation, so, the skull closes much earlier then it would on a human and thereby limiting higher mental capacity. This of course could be from being a magickal construct, and that they don't get near true giant size for the same reason, though they are say 2x stronger pound for pound then a human, they are half as strong as a true giant.

Anyway, more on point, without any higher math, large human arm, 30lbs, swing speed around 25mph,  200lbs mass to counteract  newtons 3rd law.

HG, medium sized arm 200lbs, assume same swing speed and 1700lbs mass for said 3rd law.....

Heh...essentially you got hit by a car traveling at 25mph...enjoy.

Also, If I was to be so mean as to hit a 20lbs dog, with the intent to do serious harm, I assure you that the dog would not be getting up again.

Let me try another way to explain.

Getting punched by a HG would be roughly the same as getting a 200lbs bag of sand dropped on you from 10 feet above your head.