If there was a third city...

[Kol]

An Opulent, bone-strewn throne room.

This throne room is littered with the bones from past meals, heavy silk drapes litter the walls with tapestries, lewd paintings, and gruesome trophies.
Cushions litter almost every inch of the floor, bar a pathway from the entrance to the throne, writhing bodies entwined in various stages of coitus among statues and sculptures.
The focal point, a crude throne of bone swords, sits on a raised dais at the back of the room so one may watch the lewd entertainment.

The hulking, scar-peppered half-giant lounges on a crude throne here, a slack grin on his lips.
A couple of chained Gortok growl and pace in one corner, while a pair of chained Rantarri lounge lazily in another.
A line of guards frame the pathway to the throne.

>l Giant

This Hulking, ebon-skinned Half-Giant is a pinnacle of biggun' profiling. A Mohawk runs the length of his otherwise shaven scalp, in line with the middle of his permanently pouting face, muscles cover his scar-peppered body.
Around neck: Many gold-painted chains
On Torso: A shirt with ripped-off sleeves.
On hands: Many golden-painted rings
Around body: An open, sleeveless jacket.
As belt: A large, rune-buckled belt
On trousers: Blue Cotton trousers
On Feet: A pair of heavy, chitin-reinforced boots.

Leaning forward on his throne to point at the spice-tube chewing byn sarge, the hulking, scar-peppered half-giant says loudly in stattaco-accented sirihish:
'E'ry time you say we ain't goin' off the wall, I end up inna wagon, and we go offa wall.'

Turning to point at a pair of women as a brimmed-hat wearing figure slips up behind him with a glistening-tipped needle, the hulking, scar-peppered half-giant says in stattaco-accented sirihish: 'If yer both say the child ain't yers, yer can take 'alf 'is care each. 'Alf the week to both o' yer....WHA THE FECK YER CRAZY WAGON-DRIVIN' ELF-LICKER!'

I could see it working.

[ShaLeah]

Do we not count Red Storm, Luirs or Cenyr as "cities"?

[Fujikoma]

Do we not count Red Storm, Luirs or Cenyr as "cities"?

I always thought of Red Storm and Cenyr as villages. Cenyr doesn't really, to my knowledge, have apartments even. Luir's, if I'm not mistaken, is an outpost that was previously home to a dragon-thrall, as well as a horde of wacky mantises, plus it's so jam-packed with stuff they can't find a place for rentable storage lockers. A city is quite different, with a heavy population density, relying on advances in agriculture, commerce and logistics that might not be practical in some locations, also, apparently in Zalanthas, require a sorcerer-king, if not for the fear to keep the slaves working toward the initial construction, then likely for keeping another city from sacking it and burning it to the ground. Personally, I wouldn't count any of them but Tuluk and Allanak as cities, but that's just my opinion, we don't count blackwing (well, aside from, ew, elves, more like, ew, outpost).

[Lizzie]

None of them are cities, because none of them fit the IG definition of cities. There are only two cities in Zalanthas: Tuluk and Allanak. Luir's is an outpost owned and operated by the Kurac family. Red Storm Village is - a village. Cenyr is a very small trading post.

[ShaLeah]

I used the "somewhere where people live" definition. Guess size doesn't matter to me.

I wouldn't want a third "city". I don't think either of the rulers new would allow anyone else to build one. It bugs me.they ain't took over the "not cities" yet.

[Fujikoma]

Considering what happened to Steinal (or however you spell it), I do believe anything approaching city-sized would be viewed as a potential threat by the other cities, as well as a potential source of wealth. The only way another city would be allowed to exist would be through clever use of diplomacy, alliances and tributes to the already existing power(s), but, one misstep and it'd be over.

As far as the smaller settlements, they present little real threat to the other city states. I personally don't know the Sandlord's agenda, but I'm assuming that there's something about her/his mysterious agenda and operations that's Not To Be Fucked With, some kind of benefit from allowing it to run its course, that outweighs whatever benefits come from controlling or destroying Red Storm or Red Storm East. I'm assuming there's some shady negotiations that go down to keep the peace, but as to their exact nature, I'm unaware, nor do I think I'd be allowed to discuss it if I knew.

Luir's occupies a rather strategic spot. Considering the war, it seems like it'd be a beneficial location to control. I'm sure Kurac knows this when they engage in their dealings, and they have a rather large, disciplined and dedicated force of mercenaries (I'd go so far as saying they barely, if at all, fill the requirements of being mercenaries, considering the kind of loyalty I've always perceived the Fist to have to Kurac, but there's much I don't know about it so my opinion here isn't valid). This force of mercenaries provides a sort of deterrent. Yes, yes, by all logic either of the city-states could utterly crush the Fist and Kurac and take control of the outpost, I believe this has happened in the past, but within the walls of each city-state and without are potential rabble-rousers and revolutionaries, as well as certain threats outside the walls not tied to either city-state. These threats require that there be a reasonably sized force to deal with all of the things that could go wrong at once, or over time. Before considering controlling another location, which would draw forces away from their home, they must first ensure that their own city stays secure from threats both internal and external. Conquering Luir's is doable, but I'm assuming it would cost enough lives that it would weaken the forces of the conquerors to such an extent that it would be impractical, both from the numbers lost in the original occupation, as well as those which must be left in the outpost to maintain control and repel threats from the other city-state as well as the gith. All things considered, it's probably much more practical simply to take your trained soldiers and go around it, Kurac isn't really bothering anyone, no need to weaken yourself on that fortress. So, this is why I believe Luir's is still owned and controlled by Kurac.

As far as Cenyr, it's so far out that it's not really worth the effort,  presents no threat, and there's relatively few benefits to controlling or destroying it, though it could be easily done. Your biggest threat there would be some of your troops falling off a cliff in a sandstorm, but it's so small that it really makes no sense to control or hold, and presents so little threat that destroying it seems like a waste of energy.

This is why I believe that these places continue to exist, I don't know, I could easily be wrong, I'll admit.

[ShaLeah]

I think it's just a matter of opinion.
Look at the poor Tan Muark and their losses. Teeheehee.

[Fujikoma]

I think it's just a matter of opinion.
Look at the poor Tan Muark and their losses. Teeheehee.

Indeed, it is a matter of opinion, I imagine. My opinion on the Tan Muark is that something was discovered or theorized that suddenly skewed the risk/reward ratio and made the losses acceptable, as the reward was significant enough to merit paying the cost of failure. Also, volcano. There's a lot I don't know about the situation, and what little I do know probably isn't something I could discuss on the GDB anyway, but I'm going to start with the assumption that something about the destruction of the homeland of the Tan Muark suddenly made some kind of strategic sense, or that the initial attempt at conquering it made sense because there was something there that suddenly made occupying the location make sense, and that, when things didn't go as planned, someone was like, alright, plan B, blow the whole fucking thing skyward. I'm really not sure what happened there.

But it's important to remember that no matter how large the numbers may be, in the end, they are finite, and vulnerable under the right circumstances, sorcerer king or not. A balance must be maintained. Too many people in one city state strains the agricultural resources and leads to even more starvation and strife, possibly to the point of provoking a desperate uprising, which would be costly. Drawing people into the militia, training them, and using them against the other city state does a little to keep these numbers down, but throwing too many away would be impractical and would jeopardize the security of the city state, from threats both internal and external, which is a good explanation for why they aren't constantly just out there, getting their war on with everything. Also, I don't think it would be very practical for playability's sake, and would further limit the kinds of character concepts that could be explored, but this is an OOC concern.

[perfecto]

Based on Fuji's logic the only fathomable place for another city to be based would be across the silt sea.  Too much trouble for any army to mobilize to get to.

[Down Under]

Based on Fuji's logic the only fathomable place for another city to be based would be across the silt sea.  Too much trouble for any army to mobilize to get to.

A city only reachable by Skimmer?

A city that specializes in Skimmers?

A city with canals that run through it that allow Skimmers to weave into the city to different ports, like Venice Italy?

I'm in.

[absurdist]

1800's New York.

This.

[Kol]

A city with canals that run through it that allow Skimmers to weave into the city to different ports, like Venice Italy?

I'm in.

Hmnn, silt-horrors roam the streets at night, Dujat-propelled skimmers to get you where you need to go in a hurry, and an ever-sinking city with the added bonus of the smell of the 'rinth.

Sounds fun. But from a safety point, I don't think any Zalanthians would build something in the silt. They like to live.

[Aruven]

I think everyone likes the idea of some sort of other focus point rising in the game.

I know there was a lot of excitement and raging boners over the idea of 'multiple' cities in arm 2.0. I too, wore my boner pants.

However this conversation dies ultimately with the argument that opening up another playing location pulls away from the already dwindling pool of players in other places.

I don't think another city needs to be predetermined to rise in any way shape or form, I think it should happen if the players want and make it happen in-game ; and there shouldn't be any glass ceilings to stop them from coming together to arc a storyline in this direction.

I went there.

[Fujikoma]

A city with canals that run through it that allow Skimmers to weave into the city to different ports, like Venice Italy?

I'm in.

Hmnn, silt-horrors roam the streets at night, Dujat-propelled skimmers to get you where you need to go in a hurry, and an ever-sinking city with the added bonus of the smell of the 'rinth.

Sounds fun. But from a safety point, I don't think any Zalanthians would build something in the silt. They like to live.

When I first came here, this was all silt. Everyone said I was daft to build a castle in the silt, but I built it all the same, just to show them. It sank into the silt. So I built a second one. That sank into the silt. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the silt. But the fourth one stayed up. And that's what you're going to get, Lad, the strongest castle in all of Zalanthas.

[Bast]

Something not human dominated would be nice..honestly I think Tuluk is way too much like Allanak. I would like to see a city without nobles and a different government system.

[Fujikoma]

Something not human dominated would be nice..honestly I think Tuluk is way too much like Allanak. I would like to see a city without nobles and a different government system.

The rogue elven mage society for freedom, democracy, and inexpensive pants for everyone (or at least the appearance of this). The whole known's in trouble. This would be easy to explain, all elves would simply do what they should have done a long time ago, pack up, leave Allanak and build their own city. How realistic its continued survival would be, is kind of difficult to say, though.

I agree, personally, not that Tuluk is particularly like Allanak, but that sometimes the power structures in place are similar.

[Jingo]

I would like to see more visitable settlements, reasonably placed/hidden throughout the known. But not places where people would normally stay and hang out in like they do in the cities.

Cenyr is a good example of what I would like to see more of.

[Malken]

A third city would be like a third nipple on your new girlfriend. Fascinating at first but then you just quietly wish you could get rid of it because it messes with your head each time you stare at it, even though she has really cute freckles and a pretty smile. Also, her parents are super rich and they can get you into the best University in your city. You always wanted to see her naked but that third city-nipple took you by surprise and now you don't know how to deal with it.

A vote for a third city is like a vote for Jessica's third nipple.

[Bast]

Cenyr needs rentable tents  Have you ever tried to live there? I have! Its a pain in the butt.

[Patuk]

.. No.

[KankWhisperer]

A third city would be like a third nipple on your new girlfriend. Fascinating at first but then you just quietly wish you could get rid of it because it messes with your head each time you stare at it, even though she has really cute freckles and a pretty smile. Also, her parents are super rich and they can get you into the best University in your city. You always wanted to see her naked but that third city-nipple took you by surprise and now you don't know how to deal with it.

A vote for a third city is like a vote for Jessica's third nipple.

On the other hand I've always loved the Total recall third boob.

[Delirium]

Rentable tents in Cenyr? Red Storm is bad enough already.

Actually, I take that back. I support rentable tents. I will always know where to go when mage-hunting.

[Down Under]

Actually, I would be into more 'flavor towns' than a new city. Little places like Cenyr scattered throughout the known world. They have a stables, an inn, and a few merchants. Not terribly easy to get to, and no rentable apartments/places to stay. 5-6 rooms maximum.

I'd be into that.

[Riev]

Actually, I would be into more 'flavor towns' than a new city. Little places like Cenyr scattered throughout the known world. They have a stables, an inn, and a few merchants. Not terribly easy to get to, and no rentable apartments/places to stay. 5-6 rooms maximum.

I'd be into that.

Not a terrible idea. Maybe have them crop up "near" common routes and such. Barely enough presence to fend off gith, so it makes sense ICly, but basically just a pit stop.

[Bushranger]

Actually, I would be into more 'flavor towns' than a new city. Little places like Cenyr scattered throughout the known world. They have a stables, an inn, and a few merchants. Not terribly easy to get to, and no rentable apartments/places to stay. 5-6 rooms maximum.

I'd be into that.

Not a terrible idea. Maybe have them crop up "near" common routes and such. Barely enough presence to fend off gith, so it makes sense ICly, but basically just a pit stop.

I dig this. It's another use for the tribal camp movement code and provides some interesting opportunities for explorers as well.

This year:
* Trader Amos' wagon has pulled over on the North Road at the top of the Shield Wall and is now serving drinks to grebbers. He has a corral operated by his nephew, a few guards fending of the occasional gith and a communal sleeping tent for those spending the night.
* Several Miners have established a camp on the far side of the Salt Flats. They'll trade some of their food and water for gemstones and a couple of tough, grimy whores (who might be half-elves) have set up their own tent in the camp.
* A camp of want-to-be Blackmoon have established themselves in the grasslands. They occasionally travel out and raid hunters but if you brave it and enter the camp they'll trade some of their stolen goods with you!

Next year all these have moved on or been destroyed but a few other small shanty settlements have been established elsewhere in the world!