Bardic Performances

[palomar]

In general, I've found that if I consider the bard interesting, their performances are also more likely to be interesting to attend. I especially enjoy when it's obvious the player has made a real effort and the outcome matches what could be expected of the PC. Having played a Circle bard PC myself, I will always appreciate any evident effort put into preparing performances or just playing a well-portrayed bard in general.

Go read those nice Aja Driamusek logs for inspiration.

[Majikal]

I don't think I've ever committed to a full bard, personally I was terrified of the idea. Tons of bards from the past or present are damn good and creative with their work. Unfortunately putting you're a badass flute player in your bio doesn't make you a badass flute player compared to some of these other awesome bards, so I've always been scared of the idea of trying.  

I like the performances, seeing what other players come up with, seeing how the events turn out and seeing what goes on in the crowd. Lots of layers, lots of things happening aside from someone just using the sing/recite command.

Props to those player who put in all that ooc time which translates to a 5min piece in the game.

[Delirium]

Playing a bard is exhausting and time-consuming on an OOC level, so I always feel bad heckling them when I'm on the other side of the stage.

It inevitably comes across as insulting the player's hard work rather than what's usually intended - which is to insult the character.

It's a tricky line to walk. Some people can do it. Most people prefer to zone out and then applaud at the appropriate time.

[KankWhisperer]

I'm the heckler.

[Desertman]

But when they suck and what they have written does suck and is boring....they should be heckled....and they shouldn't advance in or even be a part of their Circle.

It is my opinion that if you can't roleplay an entertaining bard that people actually enjoy being around when they perform....you shouldn't be able to succeed as a bard in game.

People shouldn't feel obligated by the IC culture or even by OOC sympathy to roleplay enjoying a shitty performance and people who can't come up with anything but boring shitty performances shouldn't be allowed in the Circles. They certainly should never advance in any way.

I think my biggest problem is being IC'ly and OOC'ly entertaining being two separate constructs instead of mutually inclusive constructs that are mandatory for IC advancement.  

I feel in order to advance IC'ly as an entertaining bard you should be required to be OOC'ly entertaining to watch as well. People shouldn't have to roleplay your talent that simply does not exist because you as the player aren't good at the role.

[Desertman]

With that being said, I would love to see some constructs put into the game that would allow the nobility and the Templarate of the north to show favor or disfavor towards bards after performances. I would also like to see documentation amended to ensure this favor isn't actually given to bards that aren't OOC'ly entertaining to these noble's and Templar's as players.

I would also like to see constructs put into the game that would allow for socially acceptable avenues for inked commoners to show bards favor or disfavor after performances.

A sort of IC equivalent of "booing" and "applauding" (even though this is already done) that is exclusive to the Tuluki "patrons of the arts" culture where people can subtly show their disfavor or favor publically after a performance and it is commonly accepted that they will face no repercussions.

I think the culture in general would become more attractive to play around on an OOC level if this were implemented. I also think it would improve bardic performances by allowing people to basically weed out the bad bards instead of having them not only stick around for IC years, but also advance in their Circles when they really aren't good bards.

It would also create some interesting feuds, jealousies, and vendettas or friendships between the bards based on the now commonly accepted and truthful opinions of the audiences they are all playing for.

In general, you mostly just see bards who are, for the most part...horrible to sit through, with a diamond in the rough stuck in every now and then, but they all get the same "praise" and "appreciation" for their hard work.

[bcw81]

With that being said, I would love to see some constructs put into the game that would allow the nobility and the Templarate of the north to show favor or disfavor towards bards after performances. I would also like to see documentation amended to ensure this favor isn't actually given to bards that aren't OOC'ly entertaining to these noble's and Templar's as players.

There already is to the bolded parts. Nobles and Templars can pass out bardic charms for good work.

[Desertman]

With that being said, I would love to see some constructs put into the game that would allow the nobility and the Templarate of the north to show favor or disfavor towards bards after performances. I would also like to see documentation amended to ensure this favor isn't actually given to bards that aren't OOC'ly entertaining to these noble's and Templar's as players.

There already is to the bolded parts. Nobles and Templars can pass out bardic charms for good work.

I am aware of this actually. What I meant is constructs beyond this, or perhaps having this construct more geared towards the last sentence you quoted there.

[Marauder Moe]

Good idea!  Some sort of formal social exchange between the bard and the noble where the bard receives currency, status, and promise of future exchanges.  Just need to think up a good name for it...

[Desertman]

Good idea!  Some sort of formal social exchange between the bard and the noble where the bard receives currency, status, and promise of future exchanges.  Just need to think up a good name for it...

*snicker*

Again, I'm aware that this sort of thing already exists. What I'm pushing for is to have a direct correlation between the bard's ability to be both IC'ly and OOC'ly entertaining as the dominant driving force behind this favor being awarded, instead of people just roleplaying they are entertaining because they "must be" because of "Circle training". Which happens a lot.

As well, it is less about the bard actually gaining the noble's or the Templar's favor and more about the public display of them being given favor or disfavor on the spot after their performances based on their performances. The societies in game, as well as the players of this game, work very much in a "trickle down" manner. If it is seen as acceptable for Templars and nobles to act a certain way publically, it is now ok for commoners to mimic that behavior publically and the behavior is now no longer shameful but also expected.

A sort of end to the, "You must appreciate their efforts even if they are bad.", mindset, enacted via the "lead by example" method.

[Marauder Moe]

Well, maybe we could try and find a way to screen bad bards/players from becoming circle members in the first place...

[Desertman]

Well, maybe we could try and find a way to screen bad bards/players from becoming circle members in the first place...

That is so much less fun than letting them fail in game based on their own merits. If they are bad, I want people to watch them fail and enjoy them failing. I also want people who WANT to play bad bards to have the chance to experience playing a bad one.

This is just as much about weeding out the bad bards as it is about promoting the good bards. If everyone is "good", then that is pretty boring as well in the sense of, "Well, it is was fun, but, wouldn't it have been fun to have a couple of bad ones to heckle and show disfavor to?".

I want the really good bards to feel a true sense of accomplishment and for them to be truly valued because there are plenty of "bad bards" out there for them to be judged against....even if they don't exist for very long/never rise up through the ranks.

It's not that I want bad bards to never exist. I want avenues for publically and acceptably letting them know they are indeed bad. If you aren't entertaining IRL, you stop getting gigs as an entertainer. If you aren't really entertaining in game, you can go right on to being a Seeker for years with everyone politely applauding and commenting on your hard earned talented abilities due your supreme Circle training....even though you suck.

[Barzalene]

Let's make all performances virtual, or FTB!

[Marauder Moe]

I mean... what more do you want?

You can fail circle auditions.
You can fail to attract a patron.
You can fail to get your patronage contract renewed.
You can fail to get the really good/prestigious/profitable gigs and commissions.
You can fail to get tips and praise.

[Desertman]

I mean... what more do you want?

You can fail circle auditions.
You can fail to attract a patron.
You can fail to get your patronage contract renewed.
You can fail to get the really good/prestigious/profitable gigs and commissions.
You can fail to get tips and praise.

I thought I explained it pretty well?

[Marauder Moe]

I guess I challenge the assertion that patrons and audiences don't take their own OOC amusement into account and I challenge the assertion that Circle membership is a guarantee of work or patronage.

[Desertman]

I guess I challenge the assertion that patrons and audiences don't take their own OOC amusement into account and I challenge the assertion that Circle membership is a guarantee of work or patronage.

I'm fine with that. I respect your opinion.

[RogueGunslinger]

So when I played in Poet's Circle for a little while () the staff heavily encouraged us to to pre-compose our performances so that we could just cut and paste them into the client command bar.  I think this helps a lot.

This isn't just good advice for Bards, I pre-write all sorts of interactions for all sorts of characters. Planning out how your pc will respond in certain situations and writing that down beforehand can be extremely fun, and extremely helpful. I write down their idioms, and things they say often. I write down their plans and how they might react if plans don't do accordingly, or if they do. It's just extremely helpful for getting into my character, and knowing how should act..

[Centurion]

I think bards are scared to fail, or make a mistake. They tend to perform for important PC's, and the player often wants to progress up the ladder, so if they fail something simple in a song, -everyone- is going to make fun of them, or they might not get work any more, because people tend to react in an extreme way to simple things. That's often boredom, or not knowing any better.

Think about it in RL, your pub performers? Most of the time these people are skilled enough that they perform rather well, and you don't notice mistakes (well I don't, cause I'd be drunk and struggling to hear over the noise), but being text, small mistakes stand out as some people tend to read everything. If your in the Circle, as even an apprentice, I estimate you've had quite a lot of experience already. I would still like to see mistakes however, here and there.

Do you want to tell a bard they are bad? Would it be like telling a recruit of the Legion you suck as a soldier? Obviously higher social caste people could get away with it... If you don't like it, would it be wise to just only tell your friends behind closed doors?

I get what D-Man is saying though, for me up until now, many bard performances have been boring to me as a person, but would be interesting to my character. That changed recently. I was actually quite blown away, and on the edge of my seat.

[Delirium]

hemote is your friend!

[CodeMaster]

It would be interesting if performing as a bard had some kind of code and consequence associated with it.  Many of the other player professions on Zalanthas (pickpocket, combatant, grebber) do.

For example if instrument objects could be 'use'd and had some kind of failrate associated with agility, age, encumbrance, how well-rested your character is, maybe some instrument-playing skill, and the length of the action emote .

Code Select Expand


> use guitar [carefully plucking along]
You play your bone guitar, carefully plucking along.


Code Select Expand


> use guitar (finger-picking like a maniac while rolling around on the floor)
You attempt to play, but one of your bone guitar's strings breaks!
A sour resonance lingers.


Auditioning for the Circle would then be a bit of an exciting nailbiter, like "auditioning" for the arena in Allanak.

[BadSkeelz]

Make all bardic competitions beat-boxing events, where bards wade into the crowds boxing and beating the shit out of random attendees. Then combat code can be used to judge the bard's effectiveness.

[boog]

No.

Absolutely not to the code. Playing a bard (I've played 2) is disturbingly hard work on an OOC level. You're basically letting people read what you write, personally, on a weirdly more intimate level than just playing the game with them. If I had to rely on code for that, I'd be so super pissed!

People have failed auditions before. Trust and believe. And I think Moe's consequences for sucking are more than appropriate. What more do you want? If your bard sucks, bam, you're not gonna advance far.

Also, if this were a free-style event, I would win. See: Crashing Teamspeak with my sick repetition of, "Oh No," by Mos Def, Nate Dogg and Pharoahe Monch as a reference.

[nauta]

It would be interesting if performing as a bard had some kind of code and consequence associated with it.  Many of the other player professions on Zalanthas (pickpocket, combatant, grebber) do.

For example if instrument objects could be 'use'd and had some kind of failrate associated with agility, age, encumbrance, how well-rested your character is, maybe some instrument-playing skill, and the length of the action emote .

Code Select Expand


> use guitar [carefully plucking along]
You play your bone guitar, carefully plucking along.


Code Select Expand


> use guitar (finger-picking like a maniac while rolling around on the floor)
You attempt to play, but one of your bone guitar's strings breaks!
A sour resonance lingers.


Auditioning for the Circle would then be a bit of an exciting nailbiter, like "auditioning" for the arena in Allanak.

With a few PCs I've wanted a CUSTOM skill (or several) that starts at novice and advances like other skills, but it gets associated with a certain command, e.g., 'custom' which you would execute whenever you do something that codedly isn't available in the game but still a skill, e.g., juggling, playing a guitar, singing, getting an erection.  You'd have to assign the skill at the beginning of your PCs life, of course, and couldn't switch it around or it'd be pointless.  Hence, you could then tell if you fail or succeed at a juggle attempt or a singing attempt and RP it out accordingly.  Maybe this wouldn't work like technically or conceptually, and maybe it doesn't make sense.  The neat thing is - I mean you could just role a die or decide OOC if you fail - is that it would use the coded skill progression.

[slvrmoontiger]

I'm not working to really respond to anyone in particular just giving my 2 'sids worth here.

1) I think the last performance that I saw that both myself and my character enjoyed was a play done around the time of the end of the Grey Hunt (I think it was just before the winner was announced). I found this play to be interesting and moving and I had fun with it.
2) Many characters of mine have been to bardic performances where I and the PC have enjoyed only a certain bard/bards/bardess/bardesses performances. In these cases my PC made comments about those performances they enjoyed and those they didn't enjoy in the context and setting that other PCs heard both the positive and negative comments. I don't believe any of my PCs have ever "pretended" to like an event that they did not. I remember in some cases I had PCs get in quite heated arguments when they didn't like a certain performance.
3) I have been to performances that my PCs didn't like and even walked out on a couple here and there because my PCs hated them.

I feel it's more fun to stick to how my PC or I actually feel than to just go along with something because of fear of disagreeing with people.

Note: I have never played a bard before, however have had characters that were approached to audition. It's just never been something I cared to do. I have played characters that like to sing/dance/play instruments and never have want to be a bard and never had problems with The Circle coming down on or threatening those characters to stop even in cases where many enjoyed the performances.