Would you leave the game if Tuluk was made off-limits to players?

[Eyeball]

Say some chasm opened up in the north, severing Tuluk from the rest of the Known. This was accompanied by the annoucement that the Tuluki start location has been removed from the Hall of the Kings.

Would you be so disappointed that you'd leave the game?

[MeTekillot]

i would enthusiastically participate in the plotline to destroy tuluk.

[deskoft]

No, please.

[MeTekillot]

i would create the plotline to destroy tuluk. i would start the plotline.

[BadSkeelz]

I chose "leave for at least awhile" because I think the game would lose a large chunk of its flavor if half of the civilization just dropped off the map. Depending on HOW that change was implemented, I might leave permanently. If it was just announced one day, I wouldn't like that at all.

Fortunately this is all pointless hypothetical cause nothing like this is going to happen.

[MeTekillot]

I don't like the phrasing "made unavailable to players". Smells like the sorcerer, red robe, senior noble, slave role changes/policies that I haven't heard very many people enthuse about. Now, say, if we were to start a plotline to destroy Tuluk

[i love toilets]

Tuluk feels more essential to the game than any other one location for me because its the only place with a fully fleshed culture, even though I play in there maybe one for every twenty characters. I picked no, but I'd be outright pissed.

[Inks]

I prefer it to be there although it is unlikely I would play there again the way certain things are.

I think any move that limits the game world a negative one, however.

[Rokal]

I'd not leave, but I don't think its a good idea.

What would replace Tuluk?

What would there be for conflict aside maybe the internal conflict of allanak/whatever the tribes do

the loss of Tuluk as a whole would wipe out a large amount of roleplay possiblties - for everyone in the game world.

[wizturbo]

I think it would be good for the game, but only if it didn't piss off a bunch of people and cause us to lose players...which doesn't seem possible to me.

[Malken]

All of my best mudsex logs were made in Tuluk, so it holds a special place in my heart. I'm a romantic and voted yes.

[RogueGunslinger]

I think it would be good for the game, and I seriously doubt half the people saying they'd permanently leave the game, actually would. I would like it to be an actual plot though, not some sudden axing of a massive portion of the game.

[manonfire]

I think it'd be cool to consolidate the playerbase into a single city-state, if only to see what a bustling, fully functioning city feels like.

I'd also support closing off Allanak to see what Tuluk looks like with 30-40 active players.

[Delirium]

Not my idea, but I like it:

Keep Tuluk in the game, but make it completely NPC only and shut off to players. It's now an NPC threat against the loyal citizens of Allanak.

Tuluki citizens are now all fervently loyal and brainwashed to the point that they would throw themselves off a cliff without hesitation if it was for the good of the city.

NPC bands of Tuluki who are out grebbing or hunting in the southern scrub or eastern grasslands will run from or attack any PC they see because clearly they are not one of THEM.

Merchant Houses can come and go from a new gate opened in the wall of Freil's Rest, but are not permitted in other sectors of the city.

Everyone now plays in Allanak, Red Storm, Luir's, or the Tablelands.

Just as a test. Run it for a year, take that time to really streamline and simplify and tweak Tuluk's documentation. Everything chugging along fine? Clans booming? Keep the status quo. Everyone still bitching about missing their beloved Tuluk? Open it back up.


I've always been part of the "blow up Tuluk" club but the problem with destroying Tuluk is that now there is no check to Allanak's powers. From a game design standpoint there needs to be that check, and that threat. So - the solution is to make Tuluk an NPC, virtual reality instead of a player-character one.

[Dresan]

I think making Tuluk all npc would probably make people want to actually play there for the same reasons people like playing in Redstorm. 

Tuluk's population wasn't huge before the war but it was pretty healthy, sad to see people feel things have degraded so much they want to shut the place down.

[nauta]

I too think it would be good over-all - mostly as someone who plays off-peak often, and as someone who likes Tuluk!  I guess I'm persuaded by delirium-style arguments, and also my limited observations: the mud-wide numbers are pretty low (both staff and player) and it sure would be amazing to have one area (with several smallish sub-areas) hopping than two big areas crawling.

[Barzalene]

I think its an idea worth considering and experimenting with.

My stumbling place is the volume of work that has gone into Tuluk, both from staff and players. That's over a decade of building, tending and accumulated culture that would be lost. I can see how the suggestion will be painful to people. I think that's a real obstacle and not something to minimize. If someone wanted to do away with twelve years of my work I think I might react very defensively.

[Delirium]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_costs#Loss_aversion_and_the_sunk_cost_fallacy

p.s. I put in countless hours of work into Armageddon 2.0 and I was still glad when the whole idea was scrapped. YMMV.

[Red Ranger]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_costs#Loss_aversion_and_the_sunk_cost_fallacy

p.s. I put in countless hours of work into Armageddon 2.0 and I was still glad when the whole idea was scrapped. YMMV.

I know people who still dislike Tuluk because when "new" Tuluk went into the game with its caste system and new map and new templars etc. it ignored or erased their RP and work from the Rebellion and earlier.

I had voted "no" in the poll but I find Delirium's proposal intriguing.

[Rathustra]

I think making Tuluk all npc would probably make people want to actually play there for the same reasons people like playing in Redstorm. 

Tuluk's population wasn't huge before the war but it was pretty healthy, sad to see people feel things have degraded so much they want to shut the place down.

It also goes against the current improvements in Tuluk's player numbers - which are a direct result of player and staff efforts. Of course it might be a position that's a product of these improvements - a more even spread of players threatening the status-quo expected by 'Nak-only players.

Regardless it isn't an idea I will entertain at all for the next 6-12 months while I'm Northlands admin. Sacrificing the entertainment of one group of players for another group of players holds no appeal to me. Especially as it'd be putting me out of a job.

I also personally believe that the problem isn't so much players playing in too many places but more a core group of players playing exclusively in a single place. There's a lack of exchange in experience which leads to an absence of a feeling of ownership for half of the game. We need less 'Nakki players' and 'Tuluki players' and more 'Armageddon players'. I don't see this ever happening because I strongly believe that players should have the freedom to play every one of their PCs wherever they wish (within reason).

[Delirium]

So... open up Blackwing, Halflings, Akei Ta Var, Gith tribes, Red Fangs, Mantis clutches?

I get that those were closed for different reasons, but the premise is basically the same. It's illogical to shut down one area "for the good of the game" or for "plot reasons" and then refuse to entertain the idea of shutting down another area because "MAH FREEDOMS!"

[Patuk]

A ton of the work involved in Tuluk you mentioned ended up in subtlety stifling public interaction, liratheans making nastiness impossible, and everyone and their mother becoming untouchable because patronage.

You could similarly say that it was just kinda mean to scrap mantis and halflings because gosh all that effort and history and now it is gone. Despite that, I still think bringing either back would be a bad idea.

(Gith, OTOH..)

[Harmless]

Why does my No vote have to be attached to an opinion of whether this is a good idea or not? My vote is No - there are arguments for and against and I am not an expert on either side of it.

[Rathustra]

I'm not the admin of those clans, so I can't really comment. I don't care about freedoms. I staff Armageddon for my own enjoyment.

[nauta]

Why does my No vote have to be attached to an opinion of whether this is a good idea or not? My vote is No - there are arguments for and against and I am not an expert on either side of it.

Good point: "No, but I have no strong feelings about it" seems like a useful addition to the list (although it's not my view: I love having opinions without knowledge of the facts!)  

I also sometimes have this opinion: "No, and I'd leave the game if it weren't implemented / cut off!"  Mostly that's when I solo RP for three hours somewhere other than Tuluk, then I type WHO and I think: They're all up in Tuluk, aren't they - having FUN?  (Of course, e converso, I feel the same way when I'm in Tuluk and this happens.)

 

[Delirium]

We players play Armageddon for our own enjoyment - just as the staff (presumably) work on staff for their enjoyment - so if there's an area we have tried and dislike playing, it's unfair to accuse us of not having broadened our horizons enough because we choose not to play in an area we haven't enjoyed or otherwise perceive as flawed. Regardless of any radical and/or creative admins running it. Has Tuluk improved? Sure. Do I want to play there? No. Have I played there recently? Yes. Did I like it? No, I did not.

Let's shift perspective a bit to explain my point about not worrying about prior work put into something:

Ultimately, no matter how much blood, sweat, and effort a player puts into telling their character's story, that story ends, and plot-wise, the staff gets final call, so their work is guaranteed to be altered and players can't push back on any final decisions - and usually, that's for the ultimate good of the game. So the moral of the story is to enjoy the process of creativity, and of examining what might be best for the health of the game's population and overall enjoyment going forward, and not get too attached to what you're creating at the moment.

[James de Monet]

I feel like proposing to wipe Tuluk off the face of the Known is like asking if people would quit playing Star Wars games if the Empire was removed.  It's central to the overarching plot of the world.  There might be enough conflict to sustain the game without it, but why?  More plot = more better.

Now, I can see the arguments about consolidating the pbase, but if it really came down to that, I think a far better solution would be to introduce a threat that is so great, it poses an immediate risk of destruction to one city-state, and a long-term one to the other.  So, humanity (or bidpedality), as it so often does, is willing to put aside its grievances for a while and cooperate.  One city-state is abandoned in the wake of massive chaos, destruction and death, but the majority of the population survives.  The refugees of that city-state flood into the other, filling it to bursting.  As the threat sits poised over the wreckage of the lost city-state, the now commingled population of the remaining city-state begins to experience inter-state strife.  Old grudges reemerge, a fight for resources ensues.  Population centers begin to divide along ethnic lines, and suddenly boom, you have two city-states in one.  Force on force conflict becomes gang fights and border squabbles.  'Once more unto the breach...' becomes 'Two households, both alike in dignity...'  The plots continue, the pbase is much more centralized, culture is kept, and new strife and cool new nuances of loyalty (along with an awesome new ruins area) are possible.  Everybody wins.


That being said, however, I still don't find myself in a camp that thinks its a good idea to get rid of Tuluk.  I just think this might be the best solution for dealing with it if it actually became necessary.

[Marauder Moe]

You people should spend less time thinking of ways to shrink the game and more time voting to expand the player base.

 

[Delirium]

Now, I can see the arguments about consolidating the pbase, but if it really came down to that, I think a far better solution would be to introduce a threat that is so great, it poses an immediate risk of destruction to one city-state, and a long-term one to the other.  So, humanity (or bidpedality), as it so often does, is willing to put aside its grievances for a while and cooperate.  One city-state is abandoned in the wake of massive chaos, destruction and death, but the majority of the population survives.  The refugees of that city-state flood into the other, filling it to bursting.  As the threat sits poised over the wreckage of the lost city-state, the now commingled population of the remaining city-state begins to experience inter-state strife.  Old grudges reemerge, a fight for resources ensues.  Population centers begin to divide along ethnic lines, and suddenly boom, you have two city-states in one.  Force on force conflict becomes gang fights and border squabbles.  'Once more unto the breach...' becomes 'Two households, both alike in dignity...'  The plots continue, the pbase is much more centralized, culture is kept, and new strife and cool new nuances of loyalty (along with an awesome new ruins area) are possible.  Everybody wins.

We've done that before... remember the Dragon?

That also leads to the problem of the city-state's god-king not having an effective check to his powers, making it nigh impossible for smaller civilizations to gain a foothold unless on good terms with the surviving city. Unless we wiped out both god-kings in the process, which I would be enthusiastically behind.

[James de Monet]

We've done that before... remember the Dragon?

That also leads to the problem of the city-state's god-king not having an effective check to his powers, making it nigh impossible for smaller civilizations to gain a foothold unless on good terms with the surviving city. Unless we wiped out both god-kings in the process, which I would be enthusiastically behind.

Actually, I wasn't proposing to wipe out either god-king.  Checks remain.  And as to the Dragon, yeah, but that plot did not address the central issue here, which seems to be the geographic consolidation of the players.

[Rathustra]

We players play Armageddon for our own enjoyment - just as the staff (presumably) work on staff for their enjoyment - so if there's an area we have tried and dislike playing, it's unfair to accuse us of not having broadened our horizons enough because we choose not to play in an area we haven't enjoyed or otherwise perceive as flawed. Regardless of any radical and/or creative admins running it. Has Tuluk improved? Sure. Do I want to play there? No. Have I played there recently? Yes. Did I like it? No, I did not.

Let's shift perspective a bit to explain my point about not worrying about prior work put into something:

Ultimately, no matter how much blood, sweat, and effort a player puts into telling their character's story, that story ends, and plot-wise, the staff gets final call, so their work is guaranteed to be altered and players can't push back on any final decisions - and usually, that's for the ultimate good of the game. So the moral of the story is to enjoy the process of creativity, and of examining what might be best for the health of the game's population and overall enjoyment going forward, and not get too attached to what you're creating at the moment.

But my enjoyment of the game is directly linked to working on parts of the game I find interesting - independent and Tuluki clans. As I said - I'd never force anyone to play somewhere they've tried and not enjoyed - the way we allow people to stick to parts of the game that interest them is important to the game. What you're asking is for other people to play somewhere they either have no interest in, play in as much as Tuluk, or have tried and not enjoyed.

I understand your point about prior work, but I also disregard it as the History of Tuluk (IC or OOC) doesn't motivate my position on the topic of destroying/NPC'ing Tuluk. I agree that history shouldn't stop us pulling the trigger - the Tan Muark are perhaps the best example of this.


edit: In fact perhaps this is all a Tan Muarki curse - we took their waterslides and their burden.

[Malken]

Seriously, what keeps me coming back to the game when I do is that I always find concepts that I want to play in TULUK. I never randomly go and think, "Oh, I'd love to play this in Allanak, now I really want to play Arm again."

It's always a Tuluk concept for me.

I don't like playing in Allanak. I tell my friends as a sort of joke that for every PCs you see in Allanak you can be assured that there's 2-3 other PCs hidden in the room or trailing you wherever you go. I just find it annoying to an extreme to play in Allanak and I can't really explain why.

Maybe it's too "gritty" for me, I feel like people are trying too hard to play hardasses, it all feels real fake to me.

Tuluk is nice, it's relaxing, it's a place where I can "relax" and not be constantly bombarded by farting dwarves who can't spell and an highschool cafeteria-like atmosphere.

[Nergal]

Not my idea, but I like it:

Keep Tuluk in the game, but make it completely NPC only and shut off to players. It's now an NPC threat against the loyal citizens of Allanak.

Tuluki citizens are now all fervently loyal and brainwashed to the point that they would throw themselves off a cliff without hesitation if it was for the good of the city.

NPC bands of Tuluki who are out grebbing or hunting in the southern scrub or eastern grasslands will run from or attack any PC they see because clearly they are not one of THEM.

Merchant Houses can come and go from a new gate opened in the wall of Freil's Rest, but are not permitted in other sectors of the city.

Everyone now plays in Allanak, Red Storm, Luir's, or the Tablelands.

Just as a test. Run it for a year, take that time to really streamline and simplify and tweak Tuluk's documentation. Everything chugging along fine? Clans booming? Keep the status quo. Everyone still bitching about missing their beloved Tuluk? Open it back up.


I've always been part of the "blow up Tuluk" club but the problem with destroying Tuluk is that now there is no check to Allanak's powers. From a game design standpoint there needs to be that check, and that threat. So - the solution is to make Tuluk an NPC, virtual reality instead of a player-character one.

The one argument I personally have against this particular idea is that right now, the Tuluk and Allanak scenario is one of the biggest driver of of player vs. player plots in terms of potency. It has the potential to get high-level plotters against each other and have it trickle down to other PCs on both sides. The main player argument against an NPC-based Tuluk, if there is any consistency at all in the playerbase's thoughts over the past few years, should be that an NPC-based Tuluk will be railroaded to all hell in terms of the plots that come about it. At least as things stand now, players have a substantial amount of control over conflict on both sides. An NPC Tuluk would de-legitimize that conflict because it becomes a players vs. staff scenario that players will ultimately feel bad about because of "staff control". It's in the game's best interest to invest as much control of conflict into players as possible, not only to keep things interesting and to keep the stakes high, but to keep it fair from a gameplay perspective. Because when it comes down to it, NPCs can just be created over and over without minds or a story of their own. PCs have a lot more to put in to the game, and more to lose.

[valeria]

I voted that I would probably still play but be upset because I enjoy switching back and forth between Allanak and Tuluk (and only occasionally other places).  I've probably spent more time in Allanak because I've had a couple more long-lived characters there than I've had in Tuluk, but I like the different atmospheres that the different areas present.

I usually put most of my high-concept characters in Tuluk and my low-concept characters in Allanak.  "What would it look like if the stress of leadership would make this character have a nervous breakdown" typically Tuluk.  "Byn, rawr" typically Allanak.

[Rathustra]

Just to be fair to the discussion at hand and to make it clear that even though I don't like the idea, I do not dislike the discussion about the idea:

The idea could be made more dynamic by having Tuluk's military and various antagonistic forces be played out in the same way that gith PCs were - as secondary/alternative/special characters that exist just to carry out missions. So Joe Templar is able to command a variety of NPC soldiers and take them on raids to bring the war to life. Similarly these roles could be used if we had major engagements occur as pitched battles across specially prepared battlefield zones - pick the time and place, then have the armies square up and duke it out, PvE style.

[Desertman]

I think we kind of did this before during the Allanaki occupation didn't we?

You could go to Freil's Rest...hang out in the tavern there....do a little trading in the local tent shops etc....but more or less the city didn't exist for players.

I personally loved it, but that might be newbie nostalgia as well. The entire area felt more hostile. More "Zalanthan". It felt like you were in a village on the edge of a dangerous and mysterious forest barely clinging to existence amongst the hostiles of those terrifying wooded depths.

We have about double, sometimes triple the active playerbase during peak times that we had then too, so there is that.

I would just be fine with Allanak finally winning the war and shitkicking Tuluk into a meager desolate existence on the edge of constant collapse. Not completely destroyed, but destroyed to the point of not being any sort of threat...maybe Muk Utep is killed....the northern templarate and Houses band together to eek out some semblance of order in the ruins as they are slowly reclaimed by the forest.

Things like that. Tuluk is no longer a great power, but the remnants of a great power long forgotten. They are no longer the bastion of the Sun King's light and glory. They are a ragtag consolidation of people living in the shame of their defeat just trying to survive on the fringes of a hostile horrible planet's environmental tortures.

Or we can keep doing the art and music thing too. I'm fine either way. There is just one I would enjoy more.

[nauta]

I sometimes hear the claims that Tuluk, not Allanak, has culture, that Tuluk, not Allanak, has fun noble and bard RP, that Tuluk, not Allanak, is where my PC concept fits... I'm curious if - under the wild assumption Tuluk disappeared - such RP/concepts couldn't work in Allanak, in, say, the nobles quarters?

[Fujikoma]

I don't think destroying Tuluk or rendering them powerless is a good idea. I'd sooner say nuke Allanak and kill Tektolnes because, really, I have to agree with Malken on the high-school cafeteria sort of interaction. Make Allanak a lawless area plagued with riots because, heh, no sorcerer king to protect you know, jerks. The rinth invades, east side and west side presenting a unified front of chaos, sweeping throngs of confused rioters into their ranks and plans for ceasing control. The Arm of the dragon fractures and units begin infighting amongs themselves because, just, who's in charge here? Nobles burned at the stake for their excesses. The streets littered with dull-black gems as the slave collars just, fall off, tinkling to the ground with the death of Tektolnes. The Templars remaining lose certain abilities but gain the gather skill, and become little more than thuggish gang-leaders amongst their loyal soldiers. Allanak is carved up amongst the surviving groups and turf wars break out on occassion. Tuluk laughs, watches, and sips tea from afar as everyone struggles to survive in an entire city that has basically just turned into the rinth.

Now THERE'S some grit.

[Reiloth]

As I stated in the Nobility thread/RAT, I most definitely would leave the game if Tuluk were arbitrarily closed/taken out of the game. I might come back and dabble now and again, but what got me hooked on Armageddon was Tuluk, its atmosphere, and culture, especially in juxtaposition with Allanak.

If you have nothing to compare Allanak to, Allanak becomes a very stagnant, boring place. Take out the Northie hate? Boring. Politics devolve to Rinth vs Allanak in a more serious way than it probably should, just because there is no conflict zone/center to point the finger at. Sure, a bunch of people are crammed together, but arbitrarily. Pushing people together unnaturally only creates arbitrary strife -- The kind of conflict that happens because there is no legitimate conflict, so people just make up their own conflict out of thin air.

Removing Tuluk naturally from the game, via plots, well...I would have more to say about that. At least it would be something that organically happened due to player actions and staff repercussions. The Rebellion/Ruins of Tuluk was just before my time here, but it sounded like a very interesting 'campaign setting' of sorts.

I just don't enjoy Allanak enough to justify me sinking my time into the game in the same way I do with Tuluk, and the enjoyment I get out of it. I'm getting older, and have more and more RL responsibilities that take away from my time playing ArmageddonMUD. Removing one of the pinnacles of my enjoyment of the game would be a major deterrent to me playing the game.

[Fujikoma]

I think bards having a monopoly on performances kind of, discourages certain potential RP in Tuluk that just seems, stifling and arbitrary. Monopoly on performances? Come on now, that warrens rat singing a silly ditty about the size of his endowments is no threat to cultural performances of the scope the bards are educated in, if anything, it provides a stark contrast, kind of like, Japanese wood-block print art for the masses and the more refined, cultural style for the aristocrats, each with their own merits and values, but intended for a different audience.

[Barzalene]

I've seen hundred in the last 14 years. Each one were hours of my life I can never get back. I hated every single one.

[Molten Heart]

It'd be cool if the game had the staffing resources to portray Tuluk realistically as a totally staff planned and controlled NPC/VNPC city, especially in a time of war. Currently I don't think that's realistic, but it's cool to consider the possibilities.

[senseofeven]

I don't think I'd want Tuluk to be off-limits. I like to have choices.

[Zoan]

I'd enjoy seeing a rotation, with places closed down. One year we're all in Nak, the other all in Tuluk, another all in the Tablelands etc. Not very realistic a function but it'd be amusing to see what a saturation of people can do to the areas.

[Barsook]

I don't think I'd want Tuluk to be off-limits. I like to have choices.

[Desertman]

I don't think I'd want Tuluk to be off-limits. I like to have choices.

Same.

[Armaddict]

I would play more.  And explore dem ruins.

[Jingo]

We should close down the known world and make Armageddon in space.

[bracken]

I have had hissy fits over less, though it still seemed a big deal
I am afraid that my emotions outweigh any logical thinkings. But I do enjoy the chance to immerse in two very different experiences, even more when I have a PC that may be resident in the enemy city.
I like interesting ideas , this one is too interesting and I don't want to think about it. Thank you.

More players please.

[Eyeball]

Why does my No vote have to be attached to an opinion of whether this is a good idea or not? My vote is No - there are arguments for and against and I am not an expert on either side of it.

Ok, I've added a "Just no" option.

[RogueGunslinger]

I feel as if we've already taxed this discussion, and its time to move on to more plausible ideas. I like Zoans rotational idea. Staff announce they're focusing all their attention/plots/building on one area of the game. They allow you to play anywhere you like, but with the stipulation you'll probably be playing alone if you aren't playing under their current area. It could always rotate back to how it is now if people didn't like it.

[Dresan]

 On the one hand we have the sun king who more or less threw a party for one of the spies and made them an honorary noble. As a long time player of the old setting, I understood somethings like Lirathan needed to be changed but its was more than a bit jarring but I digress. On the other side we have Allanak, where the black robes, not Tek himself, just his servants apparently or so the story goes, threw a volcano across the known, seemingly effortlessly. Yeah, I would say Tuluk is pretty de-powered at the moment. Unless the players find Tek passed out drunk in the gaj, with a bottle having been pushed up his ass, I personally don't really feel Tuluk is any big threat to Allanak anymore.

Its not all bad though, as someone who wouldn't mind sorcerer-kings and overpowered immortal beings disappearing all together, I'd say the castration of tuluk is ultimately an interesting direction for the game. Maybe someday I might return to play in Tuluk, if things look interesting enough. Heck if the look command ever gets nerfed, I'd even try to play a real criminal there too.

[MeTekillot]

Did I miss some log about the black robes throwing the volcano at the gypsies and not Tektolnes?

[Dresan]

Did I miss some log about the black robes throwing the volcano at the gypsies and not Tektolnes?

Someone in Allanak threw it. Doesn't really say anywhere it was either. But for argument sake, sure lets say it was Tektolnes who threw it.  Doesn't really change much else.

[MeTekillot]

What?

[MeTekillot]

where the black robes, not Tek himself, just his servants apparently or so the story goes,

Where is your source on this?

[BadSkeelz]

A volcano moved from Allanak to Tyn Darsha, with a large dragon seen flying from Allanak towards Tuluk beforehand. It can be reasonably assumed Allanak did something to magick the volcano over to where it is now.

[MeTekillot]

I thought the dragon was Tektolnes? Or are we thinking it's the other dragon? Why is it black robes?

[Patuk]

Saying find out IC is a dick move and something I don't endorse, but saying shut up seems perfectly appropriate.

[MeTekillot]

[Fujikoma]

Maybe the events at Tyn Dyshra were all part of Muk Uteps glorious plan and we should all stop questioning whose idea the volcano -really- was.

[Talia]

Tyn Dashra. The name of the place was Tyn Dashra.

- Love, a former Tan Muark staffer

[nauta]

One of my first PCs heard people refer to it as 'Ten Dashra' and always thought there were 10 of them.  (OK, let's be honest, OOCly I thought there were 10 of them.)  It was pretty funny now that I think about it.

[wizturbo]

Tyn Dashra. The name of the place was Tyn Dashra.

- Love, a former Tan Muark staffer

I was admiring the ruins of the once beautiful place recently...  T_T.

[BadSkeelz]

It is a place of great pride and sadness for me. Pride in that I helped end the gypsy scourge, but that it cost so many good characters to do it 

[Fujikoma]

You see, just before the volcano went off, the Akai S'jir, along with a team of shadow artists, quickly dismantled all the waterslides and packed them away into wagons, to transport them to the Pyramid for the Sun King's own secret water-park. Further, they've been pumping the water out of under-tuluk to keep the park running. It's the perfect crime.

[BadSkeelz]

Also holy shit I've been calling it Tyn Darsha this entire time, crap.

[slvrmoontiger]

Just my 2 'sids worth. I LOVE Tuluk I'm sure most of you know this. Tuluk has been my preferred playing place since I started playing Armageddon. I don't believe I would stop playing if the starting location was removed. In fact this has happened in the past. When Allanak Occupied Tuluk it was removed as a starting location for all but Posted Roles. Many years later I am still here and playing Armageddon.

I play Armageddon for the game and the RP and for the way skills work. Not for Tuluk. Having said this, I have to say I would deeply saddened and upset if Tuluk were to ever disappear or change (become more like Allanak.)

[James de Monet]

I'm confused by the derisive sentiment that Allanak is like a high school cafeteria.  High school cafeterias (and locker rooms, etc) have the stereotype that they do because they are populated by humans first discovering their own power, and who lack a filter (and appropriate shame) to realize (or care) what they sound like to other people.  That filter is later imparted through a modern society that is "fair-minded" and equality-driven.  Allanak is neither of these things.  Therefore, people would be highly unlikely to develop such a filter.  Therefore...wouldn't you sort of expect it to be like a high school cafeteria?  Might makes right, and I am the only person that matters.  That statement applies to the sentiment in both places in equal measure.  Now, if you just really don't enjoy the cafeteria, that's another animal entirely.

/derail

[Lizzie]

The cafeteria would be better if they'd just bring back fishsticks and pizza on Fridays.

[Patuk]

What are ya, a gay fish?

[nauta]

What are ya, a gay fish?

Wow, that took less than a minute.

[Patuk]

I'd go for a that's what she said joke here, but there is a chance you got lady bits and that'd kinda ruin it.

[Fujikoma]

I was always fond of slathering a chicken fried steak in those awful mashed potatoes and making a sandwich by ripping the roll in half.

[FantasyWriter]

Who's Tuluk?

[Molten Heart]

Tuluk isnt off limits to players? I'm going to start playing now.