What kind of plots do you prefer?

[MeTekillot]

I feel like we could get a general feel of what kind of things players prefer to do with a handy-dandy poll. Maybe they could elaborate on their answers after voting? Maybe they couldn't. I hope they do.

[Harmless]

My other:

I like plots that have a buildup. I like plots that you see coming. I like getting warnings, or feeling like I am seeing warnings.

Example: Commit a small crime. Seem to be unnoticed. Begin noticing strange things. Then noticing REALLY weird things. Then, OBVIOUSLY DANGEROUS AND STRANGE THINGS and then mantishead. Those are the best.

[cnemus]

I like foreshadowing of things to come, opportunities to interact with the encroaching doom. Building dread and horror. *points up at Harmless's post* The very best plot to me is one that asks questions about our natures, when everyone is bad, what do the subtle shades of badness reveal about our true natures? Unexpected betrayal from the most unlikely of sources, yay. Stuff like that.

[BadSkeelz]

I like foreshadowing of things to come, opportunities to interact with the encroaching doom. Building dread and horror. *points up at Harmless's post* The very best plot to me is one that asks questions about our natures, when everyone is bad, what do the subtle shades of badness reveal about our true natures? Unexpected betrayal from the most unlikely of sources, yay. Stuff like that.

I too like foreshadowing of danger, but prefer the danger to be mundane rather than "Voldemort turns you and your entire clan in to jozhals." The lead-up to the HRPT, where several clans were isolated together in preparation for more than a real life week, is probably the crowning example of this. But I've seen it accomplished on smaller scales without such extreme measures, as well.

The Ratsucker plotline from a few years back has probably been my favorite long-term plot.

More generally though, I like "plots" that can be conceived, executed on, and enjoyed in less than an afternoon.

[Reiloth]

I like when people take risks, do things that endanger their PCs, and don't just play it cool on their heels. Plots that lead to risks and blood and danger and mayhem are great.

[nauta]

Outside of RPT plots, plots that would require very little overhead staff-side are the ones I like, but not plots that are completely player generated. 

Hence, I'm sorta a big fan of the "random whatever" plot, where staff drops an item (someone mentioned a scroll with writing in the rinth) or just animates some talking kankfly, and let's the PCs sort it out (was it a mindworm, is it magic, am i crazy, wtf omidrov imma gonna die)... Of course, not all plots can be random whatever, otherwise we'd be like: meh, another random whatever.  But some can, and believe me the amount of ants that get turned into mekillots over player gossip is amazing.

[QuillDipper]

I, for one, enjoy a good old fashioned murder.

In that same vein, I enjoy plots that are mundane run especially, where regular folks kick ass. It doesn't have to be super deep. It could just be bullshitting, getting your fellow Bynner laid. It could be soldiers looking into a murder of some nobody just because catching criminals is fun. Or it could be deep shit about your best friend/family getting killed and dealing with it. Politics is too dangerous and long term, especially for my loudmouth characters, I like simple dangerous.

Magic is a whole 'nother can away from politics. Magic makes regular people feel too powerless for my liking, or eliminates too much danger depending on what side the magic is on. Danger should be an element always, in any situation, because dying is what makes the game fun.

[James de Monet]

I like plots where people are powerless, in groups. I think it creates the most interesting interpersonal roleplay.  The kind where fear is king, and people start hiding under things and turning out their packs, praying for a last drop of booze.



Edited to add: That being said, you have to kind of use this kind sparingly. I think my day to day favorite kind is the quest to unknown lands to find something mystical.

[Lizzie]

I miss the freaky magicks and the active war-mongering politics and intrigue. Yes, Tuluk and Allanak are at war. Ho hum, who cares. You rarely see a Tuluki in Nak, you rarely see a Nakki in Tuluk. Tan Muark are gone, Red Fangs are gone, sorcerers are gone, the White Rantarri is gone, PC and staff-led NPC elementals are gone. The UnderTuluk is gone, and so are mundane explosives. You can't even fight over an extra key from Nenyuk anymore. Tor is no longer open, and when they were open last, they weren't allowed to hire mages anymore.

I want to pick up a backpack and blow my finger off as a result. Or get raided by a few well-organized desert elves who rob me of my boots and my mount but let me keep my blade and my waterskin. Or better - they take my coins, and tell me it's protection money, and if I become useful to them they'll actually pay ME at some future point.

I want to find out that my Salarr boss is a mindbender, or that the Lady Oash is actually a secret psi-sorc. I want the Archives back in Kurac.

These were all the things I thought made the game so much fun, "back then." Sure there was favoritism, "unbalanced" magicks, wanton PKs by various staff members who are no longer staff members, and yes - there was even mudsex between staff NPCs and player PCs. But it was pretty easy to avoid any of those things you didn't want to get involved in, and get neck-deep in whichever categories you thought were fun.

Getting "corrupted" by a couple of sorcerers and going on an insane adventure to the "dark side" of Armageddon was one of the richest, most exciting experiences I've had with this game so far. Prior to that, the most exciting was when insane shit happened in the Tablelands back when the Elan Pah was in its heyday, and when the hair on the back of your neck raised up whenever you heard Sargax Kurac say "Profits."

So basically, my "ideal" plotlines would involve all the things that have been eliminated from the game.

[MeTekillot]

dang you made me sad

[Harmless]

I miss the freaky magicks and the active war-mongering politics and intrigue. Yes, Tuluk and Allanak are at war. Ho hum, who cares. You rarely see a Tuluki in Nak, you rarely see a Nakki in Tuluk. Tan Muark are gone, Red Fangs are gone, sorcerers are gone, the White Rantarri is gone, PC and staff-led NPC elementals are gone. The UnderTuluk is gone, and so are mundane explosives. You can't even fight over an extra key from Nenyuk anymore. Tor is no longer open, and when they were open last, they weren't allowed to hire mages anymore.

I want to pick up a backpack and blow my finger off as a result. Or get raided by a few well-organized desert elves who rob me of my boots and my mount but let me keep my blade and my waterskin. Or better - they take my coins, and tell me it's protection money, and if I become useful to them they'll actually pay ME at some future point.

I want to find out that my Salarr boss is a mindbender, or that the Lady Oash is actually a secret psi-sorc. I want the Archives back in Kurac.

These were all the things I thought made the game so much fun, "back then." Sure there was favoritism, "unbalanced" magicks, wanton PKs by various staff members who are no longer staff members, and yes - there was even mudsex between staff NPCs and player PCs. But it was pretty easy to avoid any of those things you didn't want to get involved in, and get neck-deep in whichever categories you thought were fun.

Getting "corrupted" by a couple of sorcerers and going on an insane adventure to the "dark side" of Armageddon was one of the richest, most exciting experiences I've had with this game so far. Prior to that, the most exciting was when insane shit happened in the Tablelands back when the Elan Pah was in its heyday, and when the hair on the back of your neck raised up whenever you heard Sargax Kurac say "Profits."

So basically, my "ideal" plotlines would involve all the things that have been eliminated from the game.

[BleakOne]

I guess I'm a bit of a D&D style player at heart. I like 'adventures' into the unknown. The aforementioned 'Ratsucker' plot was awesome. A few of my characters took part in that story in one way or another. I loved the long build up, the various events. It was awesome.

I've also had a few really fun experiences which had no lead up or after effects, but were incredibly fun. A staff-animated jozhal can turn a standard hunt into surprising fun. And sometimes !!fun!! too.

Secondarily, I like the RP that comes when your PC is just in a normal day. Not just sitting at a bar, but going about the city, heading to wherever you get food and water from, or relaxing with friends and getting drunk.

[Malken]

Secondarily, I like the RP that comes when your PC is just in a normal day. Not just sitting at a bar, but going about the city, heading to wherever you get food and water from, or relaxing with friends and getting drunk.

That's the kind that I don't like. I love my RL and when I play Arm, I don't want to feel like all I'm doing is playing an ordinary guy just living an ordinary life making babehs (where are you greasygemo) and chillin' at the bar. It's okay if I do that in between crazy fun adventures and plots (the non-volcanic kind, plz).

[Araza]

I dunno, I'm hoping that I do get to experience one of these plots sooner or later in my Arma career... at least when I get the time to be on, lol. To be honest, though, as a new-ish player it feels kinda disheartening to hear of these 'glory days'. It makes me wonder whether or not such extravagant things will happen again. I mean, I as an OOC player am enthralled by what my character's been experiencing thus far but to hear of days past I feel like I missed out on something greater considering those stuff probably occurred around the last decade or so...

[BleakOne]

I joined after the so-called 'glory days', and I've had and am still having plenty of fun. I've seen some pretty crazy stuff too, and heard of some equally weird goings on, so there's still plenty to experience if you look for it.

[MeTekillot]

wait nevermind reading is hard

[Inks]

I like being involved in open ended player run plots with occasional imm animation if they feel like it. I like murder plots with motivations and I enjoy find the doodad quests. I Hope there are metal objects and I wish there were small seams loaded in the gameworld waiting to be found and plotted over.

[Evoru]

I like the kind of plots when you think everything is going smoothly, and so what if you have to step on a few people to get to where you're going?, only you don't step hard enough on one person. They resent that boot print you left on their face, but you don't even remember the face or the boots you were wearing that day. They were probably his, and you threw them away because they didn't match your silky new frippery.

Then one day everything starts going wrong. You suspect someone is acting against you, and the next time you try to take a step you trip...but look, your friend that gave you the boots caught you! Only he caught you on his knife, and he spends the next few hours of your (short, painful) life explaining the lengths a man will go to in order to get his boots back and revenge a squished face.

[Armaddict]

The kinds with small beginnings.

And big endings.

They come in various scales and varieties and mediums, and they're all good.

[Norcal]

The kinds with small beginnings.

And big endings.

They come in various scales and varieties and mediums, and they're all good.

I don't know. Some of the things I read above, about the glory days, are still possibilities. I have been involved in a few of them, some recently.  Sorcs, thieving elves on the Pah (not just Red Fangs either), suspecting your clanmates of being gickers in a clan that hates them, mindbenders, war between Kurac and a certain d-elf tribe, murder for profit, murder for fun, murder for politics. Lots of murder, and tons of betrayal. I think corruption is the most boring of things though. Just too easy.

I imagine the old days were fun and that changes make players who were around back then sad.  Yet, I also think that folks like myself and other even more recent arrivals will look at these days as the glory days.  Arm is what you make of it, and I have never had a problem creating or getting involved in plots even with PCs right out of the box. I suppose you need a willingness to take risks and push the envelope at times, but the plots are there and you all make most of them.  You guys rock.

[Lizzie]

I want to point out - my last post a few posts up was what my *ideal* plotlines would consist of. Like, if I could wave a magic wand and have plotline after plotline of mad stupid crazy shit happen on a daily basis, with enough staff support and interest and resources to make 100 die-hard WOW fans swear off graphics forever and plunge in.

That doesn't mean that I'm not enjoying other plotlines, or that less spectacular plotlines aren't fun or that I don't look forward to seeing "what's next" in the world of Zalanthas.

The events that happen now will be the glory days of the next decade. Some people will be involved in them, some won't. The thing about the two sorcs and my character becoming corrupted is actually fairly current (in the past couple of years) and as I said, that was the BEST fun I've had so far.

I'm not disheartened or cynical about "what it is" now. I think with the new staff and some of the old staff returning, we'll be seeing new "OMGWTF" plotlines, just - in a different way. I'm looking forward to experiencing some of them and I won't even try to compare them with the "Glory days" of my own experiences. Going into it assuming it'll suck is really just asking for it to suck, because that would justify your attitude (which everyone wants to do). I go into it knowing that I had a blast with past experiences, and knowing I can't have *those* experiences again, but that I might have a blast with NEW experiences.

Also for Norcal - the thing with the raiders - I shouldn't have to detour into "their" territory to be afraid of getting raided on the way from Allanak to Tuluk. I should be concerned about elven raiders anywhere along the way. That was one of the things that made the Red Fangs so much fun to deal with as a "victim" (I played one too but I was a "victim" of them with a few characters before I played one). The very name of their tribe, spoken out loud, brought fear into the minds of travellers going anywhere in the world, not just in one section of the game that was known to be protected by the people who lived there.

[Fujikoma]

I enjoy the plots that come to life through player interaction. Sometimes, when drawn out far enough, with just enough tension applied at all times... and then, *snap*, it's over, and even though you "won", you still feel like you lost OOC, because, there goes your villain, what the heck are you supposed to do now? And if you lost, hey, maybe after a few IG years your next PC will find themselves best buds with your previous enemy, and  you'll be like, wow, that was all just a hideous misunderstanding, or, holy cow! I was not only right, I wasn't suspicious enough! But, it's still all good fun. Thanks, everyone who's played with me. I can only hope to create more believable characters as time goes on to repay you all for the time you've invested in bringing the game to life for me.

[Tetra]

Armageddon is a harsh MUD with an equally gritty setting, but I have to disagree with the general sentiment that murder makes a good plot.  It doesn't.  A plot is good because it interweaves an overarching scheme of stories that symbiotically compliment each other.  Murder is just a cherry on the cake, it does not provide good storytelling on its own.  With that being said, murder and death can propel a plot, and ultimately be the conclusion of it for your character -- but it is not "the plot".

[Fujikoma]

Armageddon is a harsh MUD with an equally gritty setting, but I have to disagree with the general sentiment that murder makes a good plot.  It doesn't.  A plot is good because it interweaves an overarching scheme of stories that symbiotically compliment each other.  Murder is just a cherry on the cake, it does not provide good storytelling on its own.  With that being said, murder and death can propel a plot, and ultimately be the conclusion of it for your character -- but it is not "the plot".

I'll say. It's something I'd honestly prefer not to use, but so many times it becomes inevitable.

[Molten Heart]

Spending a lot of time talking about killing someone is much more fun than when someone dies.

[MeTekillot]

The thing is, in real life, beating someone down promotes a primal responseof taking the fight out of themthat isn't easily expressed in game, so murder ends up being the solution y

[James de Monet]

Yeah. Pain and shame are huge motivators of human behavior IRL that just aren't as effective in game because characters only ever feel them to a rational extent (if that much), not to the irrational extent that humans often feel, and quickly learn to run away from.

If pain and shame worked better IG, you wouldn't see so many plots having to go all the way to murder for someone to 'win'.

If a powerful character can't get the last word without killing someone, guess what? Someone is going to die.

[CodeMaster]

"The only reliable coded punishment one PC can inflict upon another is the mother of all punishments (murder)."  This might actually be true, or close to it, and I think more problems are caused by it than meet the eye (I have been thinking a bit about nuanced reactions in Armageddon lately):

There is this game theoretic paradox that has been studied (I forget the context, economics or sociology probably) that basically goes like this: if you raise the punishment for crime X too high, you can actually increase the rate at which crime Y is committed.

The common example is this: imposing the death penalty for robbing a bank can raise murder rates.  Why?  If you're robbing a bank, you know you're fully boned if you're caught, so you can see that shooting a hostage is going to have a negligible effect on your punishment -- especially if shooting the hostage increases your chances of escape.

The Armageddon examples: imposing the death penalty for being a known pickpocket is going to raise the rate at which pickpockets steal without emoting.   Imposing the death penalty for quietly rebelling from clan X is going to raise the rate at which clan X's storage room is robbed and its NPC guard killed.  And so on, and so forth.

If you accept this perspective, there seems to be some extra hidden value in adding other coded punishments to PC's toolboxes (i.e. beyond just giving players more to do to each other).  It would lead to less of the aforementioned warped, counterintuitive behavior.

For instance, it would be cool if you could 'injure' PCs instead of killing them: set their max HP to 10 and their strength to very poor (i.e., something completely debilitating that completely rules out bouncing back to life and seeking out PK revenge).  Have it last for an in-game month.

[BadSkeelz]

"The only reliable coded punishment one PC can inflict upon another is the mother of all punishments (murder)."  This might actually be true, or close to it, and I think more problems are caused by it than meet the eye (I have been thinking a bit about nuanced reactions in Armageddon lately):

There is this game theoretic paradox that has been studied (I forget the context, economics or sociology probably) that basically goes like this: if you raise the punishment for crime X too high, you can actually increase the rate at which crime Y is committed.

The common example is this: imposing the death penalty for robbing a bank can raise murder rates.  Why?  If you're robbing a bank, you know you're fully boned if you're caught, so you can see that shooting a hostage is going to have a negligible effect on your punishment -- especially if shooting the hostage increases your chances of escape.

The first Imperial dynasty of China (the Qin) was brought down because of this in less than 15 years: so many people were condemned to death for relatively minor crimes they decided to just up and revolt.

The problem is there are a bit too many ungrateful twinks out there who will swear bloody revenge on you and maxgrind backstab and not just be glad they weren't executed out of hand. I'm not saying there's a lot of players like that (I suspect it's only a handful), but it's enough to create a negative feedback loop between the Enforcers (Templars and soldiers) and the criminals. Better to kill anyone who's warranted execution than spare them, because most of the time sparing gets you nothing positive in return. This encourages Enforcers to be more and more lethal to those they encounter. Conversely, if an Enforcer comes in who's just murderous from the word "go," everyone else is going to do their best to remove him (or just avoid the character).

That's the problem painted in broadest strokes that I've seen.

Generally, if your character ever finds themselves thinking "I really should kill this idiot," they probably should.

[CodeMaster]

Interesting, I appreciate the pointer re: the Qin Dynasty.  I'll goaltend my post a little...

The problem is there are a bit too many ungrateful twinks out there who will swear bloody revenge on you and maxgrind backstab and not just be glad they weren't executed out of hand.

If they were really that bad, they'd probably just roll a dwarf and contrive a focus to put them in direct conflict with you.  Maybe the real issue is that this person now has an IC reason to play the PK game with you.  And to quote you from another thread:

Mmm, all those so-easy-to-excuse PKs though....

I realize this comment was made in jest, but it still baffles me how some people actually care to notch their belts with PKs in a game like Arm...

Better to kill anyone who's warranted execution than spare them, because most of the time sparing gets you nothing positive in return. This encourages Enforcers to be more and more lethal to those they encounter. Conversely, if an Enforcer comes in who's just murderous from the word "go," everyone else is going to do their best to remove him (or just avoid the character).

I think this: "most of the time sparing gets you nothing positive in return" is an unfortunate OOC reality, presumably not an IC one.

But I would argue that one thing you would get in return if you were able to injure them for an IG month (or even a year) is that you'd get to see them suffer.  Moreover, it also gives you a grace period during which you can monitor their behavior (hey a plot device) and easily kill them if they hint that they aren't grateful.

Edit: also good luck training backstab with 10 hp.

[BadSkeelz]

If they were really that bad, they'd probably just roll a dwarf and contrive a focus to put them in direct conflict with you

I believe it happens. Most people aren't that stupid though, since something like that's going to catch staff attention. What I see more of is 1) Amos does something that would warrant his execution, 2) Templar Malik spares their life [or maybe lets them off with a non-crippling injury] in exchange for future service which leads to either 3a) Amos fucks off and pays no attention to the favor they owe Malik or 3b) Amos swears bloody vengeance on Malik for the grave "insult" of being punished for their own action. That's the worse case scenario.

I realize this comment was made in jest, but it still baffles me how some people actually care to notch their belts with PKs in a game like Arm...

If I actually followed my own advice I'd have twice the PK reports and half of the problems I do.

But I would argue that one thing you would get in return if you were able to injure them for an IG month (or even a year) is that you'd get to see them suffer. Wink  Moreover, it also gives you a grace period during which you can monitor their behavior (hey a plot device) and easily kill them if they hint that they aren't grateful.

Most cases someone this Ungrateful will drop out of sight until they think they've amassed enough power to get revenge.

[CodeMaster]

Most cases someone this Ungrateful will drop out of sight until they think they've amassed enough power to get revenge.

This is definitely the risk and something I didn't give enough thought to.

I like that you brought up the example of a templar, though.  In some sense templars are ideal candidates for some kind of finite-time 'injury' or 'curse' spell:

• Letting Amos live poses virtually no risk since templars are so codedly powerful;
• as per my original reasoning, adding some nuance to the coded punishments might lead to less paradoxical all-or-nothing behavior from Amos;
• and, the templar killing Amos would generate far less plotcontent than letting him live...

the last point being what this thread is all about.

[Talia]

My inner cynic is saying right now that if PCs were injured in this manner but not killed, the results would go like this:

-- First, player of injured PC files player complaint, staff must respond
-- Second, player of injured PC sends in a bunch of questions/reports asking "how am I supposed to play like this ugh this suck so much," staff must respond
-- Third, player of injured PC sends in a storage request after giving the situation a maximum of 3 RL days of play, staff must handle

I mean, if the player is not going to roleplay appropriately, it doesn't matter whether there's a coded effect or not. A player who knows how to roleplay will say, "Wow, that very powerful PC let me live, I think I'll back off," and then roleplay the injury out without need for code. A player who doesn't will do the above.

[wizturbo]

I like that you brought up the example of a templar, though.  In some sense templars are ideal candidates for some kind of finite-time 'injury' or 'curse' spell:

Love the idea of being able to codedly injure or curse someone.  Like, if someone is beaten unconscious or otherwise helpless you could Injure <target> them, which applies a stat/skill/something penalty that lasts for X in-game time.  Should be fairly long (RL days/weeks).  Physicians might be able to lessen that time.  Magick users might be able to repair it completely with a wiggle of their finger...

Could generate some cool stuff.

[Armaddict]

My inner cynic is saying right now that if PCs were injured in this manner but not killed, the results would go like this:

-- First, player of injured PC files player complaint, staff must respond
-- Second, player of injured PC sends in a bunch of questions/reports asking "how am I supposed to play like this ugh this suck so much," staff must respond
-- Third, player of injured PC sends in a storage request after giving the situation a maximum of 3 RL days of play, staff must handle

I mean, if the player is not going to roleplay appropriately, it doesn't matter whether there's a coded effect or not. A player who knows how to roleplay will say, "Wow, that very powerful PC let me live, I think I'll back off," and then roleplay the injury out without need for code. A player who doesn't will do the above.

To be honest, I don't think you're far off.

[Zoan]

Ever since I was abducted by a sorceror during a staff plot, I've loved magick stuff.

[wizturbo]

My inner cynic is saying right now that if PCs were injured in this manner but not killed, the results would go like this:

-- First, player of injured PC files player complaint, staff must respond
-- Second, player of injured PC sends in a bunch of questions/reports asking "how am I supposed to play like this ugh this suck so much," staff must respond
-- Third, player of injured PC sends in a storage request after giving the situation a maximum of 3 RL days of play, staff must handle

I mean, if the player is not going to roleplay appropriately, it doesn't matter whether there's a coded effect or not. A player who knows how to roleplay will say, "Wow, that very powerful PC let me live, I think I'll back off," and then roleplay the injury out without need for code. A player who doesn't will do the above.

I think the best way to handle this is create IC ways to address it.  Want to fix that shattered hand?  Well, go find a physician and pay them to help improve it...or cross over to the dark side and find a Vivaduan who might completely repair it...but you may not like their "price"...

[BadSkeelz]

Talia's point is that if someone isn't going to appropriately RP being let off the hook, they're probably not going to put the RP in to react to a crippling injury either. It's an attitude problem on the part of the players.

I think we might be getting a bit off track and over-exaggerating this problem, though. While I've yet to encounter a problem that can't be solved by murder (especially the problems of corruption and betrayal), the vast majority of plots get to trundle along past the point of it being apparent to us the players that someone needs to die.

[Talia]

I like any plot that doesn't end with: "And then Amos died to a scrab."

[Saellyn]

I like plots where Amos dies to a scrab because someone hurled him into the jaws of one after he failed to complete the mission that would change the fate of the Known World.

[BadSkeelz]

I laughed my ass off at a "plot" that ended with Amos dying to a scrab.

[Tetra]

I like the idea of an injure code, but not the notion that only PCs with authority would be able to use it.  What about hostage situations, where you need to bloody someone to a pulp but keep them alive for an exchange?  How about interrogations, where you have to find an answer without resorting to killing?  A crippling injury from a bahamet while out hunting(all of these things already happen without code, this would simply make it more concrete in the world)?  That could lead to some interesting outcomes.

If a code is implemented that enables so basic a concept as broken bones/fractures/physical & emotional trauma that drops ones stats negatively, it should be applied to the average PC in various circumstances.

[flurry]

I like any plot that doesn't end with: "And then Amos died to a scrab."

In fairness, that's the only way for the scrab to know that Amos won't come seeking revenge.

[wizturbo]

I like the idea of an injure code, but not the notion that only PCs with authority would be able to use it.  What about hostage situations, where you need to bloody someone to a pulp but keep them alive for an exchange?  How about interrogations, where you have to find an answer without resorting to killing(all of these things already happen without code)?  That could lead to some interesting outcomes.

If a code is implemented that enables so basic a concept as broken bones/fractures/physical & emotional trauma, it should be available to the average PC.

I'm fine with anyone being able to use to use the injure code, with the usual caveat that anyone who abuses it will lose it.  Just lack desert quit, or frankly any other thing in game.

I was hoping a 'curse' code could also piggy back with injuries, and that obviously should be restricted those who would be able to curse.  Maybe that's southron templars, maybe some magick users...etc.

[Talia]

I like any plot that doesn't end with: "And then Amos died to a scrab."

In fairness, that's the only way for the scrab to know that Amos won't come seeking revenge.

[Tetra]

I like the idea of an injure code, but not the notion that only PCs with authority would be able to use it.  What about hostage situations, where you need to bloody someone to a pulp but keep them alive for an exchange?  How about interrogations, where you have to find an answer without resorting to killing(all of these things already happen without code)?  That could lead to some interesting outcomes.

If a code is implemented that enables so basic a concept as broken bones/fractures/physical & emotional trauma, it should be available to the average PC.

I'm fine with anyone being able to use to use the injure code, with the usual caveat that anyone who abuses it will lose it.  Just lack desert quit, or frankly any other thing in game.

I was hoping a 'curse' code could also piggy back with injuries, and that obviously should be restricted those who would be able to curse.  Maybe that's southron templars, maybe some magick users...etc.

Hypothetically speaking, I see such an injury system being piecemeal with the combat system.  

For example, Amos gets his leg bitten by a scrab while he is under 30 HP(using an algorithm that measures at a certain % of a PCs health to determine when injury can proc, the lower it falls increasing that proc rate).  Based on an endurance roll, there would be a chance for a hit to agility, or even flee perhaps -- to reflect the injury, with a slight decrease in maximum health.

The idea of injure being a button-press method of punishing ICly will absolutely be abused, even if you enforce consequences.

Edit: I also see this discouraging twinkery when it comes to sparring and other activities like hunting, making people behave more mindfully. 

[wizturbo]

The idea of injure being a button-press method of punishing ICly will absolutely be abused, even if you enforce consequences.

My original suggestion was it is only available if a PC is completely incapacitated.  A situation where the choice is Kill <character> or Injure <character>, both being equally available.  I don't see how that would be 'abused'...you opt to hurt the character instead of murder them...  No abuse there.

I hate the idea of the code randomly doling out injuries from loss of HP.  There are many ways to lose HP, some of which are prone to causing lasting injuries, some aren't.  Having to code those nuisances would be a nightmare.

[RogueGunslinger]

I like any plot that doesn't end with: "And then Amos died to a scrab."

In fairness, that's the only way for the scrab to know that Amos won't come seeking revenge.

LAWL. That got a good chuckle out of me.

[CodeMaster]

My inner cynic is saying right now that if PCs were injured in this manner but not killed, the results would go like this:

-- First, player of injured PC files player complaint, staff must respond
-- Second, player of injured PC sends in a bunch of questions/reports asking "how am I supposed to play like this ugh this suck so much," staff must respond
-- Third, player of injured PC sends in a storage request after giving the situation a maximum of 3 RL days of play, staff must handle

I mean, if the player is not going to roleplay appropriately, it doesn't matter whether there's a coded effect or not. A player who knows how to roleplay will say, "Wow, that very powerful PC let me live, I think I'll back off," and then roleplay the injury out without need for code. A player who doesn't will do the above.

I sympathize with the staff effort.  Also, I mostly meant the injury command as a kind of simple example off the cuff, not something I intended on defending and derailing the thread with.  Sorry everyone.

Talia, your last paragraph caught my eye though.  I don't mean to bastardize your comment, but you could say the same thing about the "hide" and "sneak" skills.  It's to Armageddon's great credit that there is strong RP reinforced by a coded backbone to act as a neutral, cold-hearted, third-party arbiter.

[Eyeball]

1. Get "injured".

2. Think OOCly, "well, do I want to roleplay out a RL month of moaning as a gimped character"?

3. Either store or pretty much log off for a month if I like the character enough.

Might as well just kill him.

[RogueGunslinger]

I've always wanted someone to cut off the hand of one of my badass warriors so I could roleplay out a Jaimie Lannister type scenario.

But otherwise yeah, I agree with that sentiment.

[Tetra]

The idea of injure being a button-press method of punishing ICly will absolutely be abused, even if you enforce consequences.

My original suggestion was it is only available if a PC is completely incapacitated.  A situation where the choice is Kill <character> or Injure <character>, both being equally available.  I don't see how that would be 'abused'...you opt to hurt the character instead of murder them...  No abuse there.

I hate the idea of the code randomly doling out injuries from loss of HP.  There are many ways to lose HP, some of which are prone to causing lasting injuries, some aren't.  Having to code those nuisances would be a nightmare.

It's a simple math equation.  You would factor in the percent of damage from the enemy target relative to PC max health, with anything below a given threshold, say 20%, not applying such a roll for the injury.  You could also limit that to reeling blows.  Your idea is interesting, but it seems a little goofy for a PC to require being on the precipice of death for a mechanic like that to take effect.

We also have to consider that the person may just die before they are incapacitated, due to blood loss or other severe wounds.  The 'leniency' of injury is nullified if it requires extreme measures.  And you could say anything is more lenient than execution, but that's a relative comparison.  Every PC won't want to hack someone up to that extent, if all they intend to do is rough them up.

[Reiloth]

I think leave the power of permanent mutilation in the hands of the PC being mutilated. If they want to agree to have a hand chopped off, let them do that. If they don't, then the hand gets mangled but can heal over time. A debilitating crippling blow can sometimes be more difficult to play than simply starting over a new PC. I enjoy it, personally, but can see how people also wouldn't.

[Rokal]

Honestly, its hard for me to chose - i love stories, and i love writing. I'd have to say all of them. like i've posted on other threads, im very new to Armageddon; i love intrigue and politics, both the dangerous and typical kind, i love adventure (I'm a lore hound, and adventure to me is one way to learn more about Zalanthas as a whole!), and i'd love to see the magic side of the game sometime.

So i'm going to chose other out of the simple fact: i really like roleplaying. I really have no preferance. 'geddon isn't the first place i've roleplayed, but its definitly new to me in a lot of ways, and i'm having a blast so far

If theres anything I do like in roleplaying, its not developing my own character, but having characters that help other characters grow, change, ect - even if its not my own characters intention. my character's story isn't just their own, it touches the story of many other peoples stories.

[Harmless]

Honestly, its hard for me to chose - i love stories, and i love writing. I'd have to say all of them. like i've posted on other threads, im very new to Armageddon; i love intrigue and politics, both the dangerous and typical kind, i love adventure (I'm a lore hound, and adventure to me is one way to learn more about Zalanthas as a whole!), and i'd love to see the magic side of the game sometime.

So i'm going to chose other out of the simple fact: i really like roleplaying. I really have no preferance. 'geddon isn't the first place i've roleplayed, but its definitly new to me in a lot of ways, and i'm having a blast so far

If theres anything I do like in roleplaying, its not developing my own character, but having characters that help other characters grow, change, ect - even if its not my own characters intention. my character's story isn't just their own, it touches the story of many other peoples stories.

*warm fuzzy feelings* glad you like it stick around. And bring all your friends.   

on topic, I like all kinds of plots, and it encourages me to see such a nice even spread of likes on the GDB, to help fill all the niches, because you can't make and participate in all of them at once!

[valeria]

The kind where a very long and vicious enmity leads to character arcs on both sides.  This kind only arises when you can't just outright murder the opposing party.

[Evoru]

Hey hey hey, we are sadly unrepresented in this thread by all the people who love plots about getting pretty people in their apartments!  

I feel all alone!

[BadSkeelz]

That's not a plot, that's just good fun. If you don't need to wish up to staff/file a character report on what you're gonna do, it's not a plot imo.

[Harmless]

I like to think of my character's relationships, particularly "romantic" ones, as a constant side-plot that colors my character's mood state during important scenes on plots involving more characters, and are therefore important, and even worth noting in character reports, though never as the focus of the report if possible.

my 2 sids.

[RogueGunslinger]

Hey hey hey, we are sadly unrepresented in this thread by all the people who love plots about getting pretty people in their apartments!  

I feel all alone!

That's what I thought the selection for "Normal Murder" was for.

[Voular]

Any plot where you feel your involvment actually matters.

[Evoru]

That's what I thought the selection for "Normal Murder" was for.

I like to think of it as a versatile sort of plot that could fit in with politics/intrigue, too. I suppose if someone wanted to clutch a dagger between their teeth and tie up their partner you could call it a swashbuckling adventure, as well.

[BadSkeelz]

Referring to your partner as "the wastes" isn't very polite.