How To Have a War

[Gimfalisette]

What would you do if you juuuust so happened to be playing a sergeant, and wanted to make the war more exciting?

I've played a Sergeant on a war footing (gith invasion, also everything else in 2007-2008). Here are things I did:

-- Recruited and trained mercilessly. If a unit has no PC soldiers, a templar can't do anything with the unit. I made sure our unit was full. (We became so full, in fact, that we became two units with two Sergeants.)

-- Made sure every soldier was equipped for their job. If they had a "specialty" (non-warrior), I made sure they got training and equipment for that. Armor, weapons, mounts, cures, go-packs. Everything was ready.

-- Kept my soldiers busy and entertained until such time as they were required for war. THIS IS HARD. Do not underestimate. I ran in-city RPTs. I ran out-of-city RPTs. I gave them plots and quests. I gave them a relationship with their superior that was both caring and tough.

-- Was absolutely ready to understand and follow orders. My templar boss knew he could count on me.

That is what a Sergeant can do, in short. It's plenty of work to stay occupied. If you're at this level and you want war, you need to be ready to play your part. I'm not saying anyone out there isn't ready, I am just saying this is what is involved.

[Eyeball]

Nevermind.

[BadSkeelz]

I've played a Sergeant on a war footing (gith invasion,

While all your points are spot on and excellent advice to leaders in the combat clans, they're unfortunately not really germane to the discussion of "How do you have a war between the city-states" =/

Wars against gith, spiders, kryl, or other NPCs are in my experience a whole lot funner than wars against other players. But those all require a lot of staff work.

To elaborate: PC versus NPC wars (or PvE, player versus envirnonemnt) are MUCH easier for PCs to roleplay because the NPCs provide the necessary conflict of interest. I.e., they want to eat you and you don't want to be eaten.

[Patuk]

Badskeelz is right. God save us all.

Your advice is good, Gimfalisette, but could just as easily have been advice for a sergeant in peacetime.

What I have yet to see if advice on what a sergeant can actually do in the context of a war.

[Barzalene]

I didn't read every post. I'm sorry if I'm repeating anyone.

I thought one of the things about the copper war that really made it fun was that there was a front. Something to go to. There were small ongoing events instead of one big on. I think we actually could do that without too much staff work. Some oversight. Some involvement. But once we found something to contest we could all be there and contest it. Or maybe I'm being overly optimistic.

[Patuk]

Also, just to answer my own question..

.. I'd really like it if some enterprising bunch of fellows tried to organise a combat by champion event. With the right planning, it could probably be planned off.

Probably.

[Gimfalisette]

What I have yet to see if advice on what a sergeant can actually do in the context of a war.

That is what a Sergeant can do. I'm not sure why you guys are so obsessed with a Sergeant somehow being able to push war. App a templar?

I thought one of the things about the copper war that really made it fun was that there was a front. Something to go to. There were small ongoing events instead of one big on. I think we actually could do that without too much staff work. Some oversight. Some involvement. But once we found something to contest we could all be there and contest it. Or maybe I'm being overly optimistic.

Remembering what staff said about that conflict after, I don't think this is a correct impression. It required a ton of work on their part.

[MeTekillot]

Well, what can a templar do in a war, then?

[Saellyn]

Well, what can a templar do in a war, then?

Organize subterfuge.

[RogueGunslinger]

Badskeelz is right. God save us all.

Your advice is good, Gimfalisette, but could just as easily have been advice for a sergeant in peacetime.

What I have yet to see if advice on what a sergeant can actually do in the context of a war.

I think maybe you misunderstood me when I talked about rolling a soldier or templar to be a part of events. I'm not saying a Sergeant has the ability to go out and make meaningful impacts to the war front, swaying it one way or another. That doesn't mean you treat your PC like he isn't in middle of a war, and that doesn't mean you can't create plots that build off of the war. The fun in Armageddon has always been (for me) the circumstances that stir up around such an event that staff have already initiated for us. Not in the event itself. Sure HRPT's are fun and all, but at the end of the day RPT's and HRPT's are not what creates lasting fun.

Do you remember when a bunch of people got together after the war and started burning down Magicker Temples? This would be an example of what I'm talking about. They had an idea, they planned it out, and with some staff help the brought it to fruition.  

What is stopping a southern Sergeant from hiring a couple of 'gickers to get started terrorizing Tuluki hunters and grebbers? What keeping a northern noble from poisoning or collapsing the free-water-cave that's outside of Allanak? What is keeping that Southern noble house from working out a trade agreement with Salarr to make sure they get the best gear while the other city is stuck with shoddy hand-me-downs?

These are things players CAN do. Sure it takes a little bit of staff help, but you need to actually start trying to do something in order for staff to even know you need that help.

[BadSkeelz]

All those things have or had happened. Also, one of them was entirely staff driven with no PC input until after the fact.

[RogueGunslinger]

What's your point?

[HavokBlue]

I agree with most of the sentiment in this thread about the difficulty of shaking things up with PC military roles in the context of war, but it occurred to me that while your PC can't wage war like a city state... You can wage war like a terror cell or a guerrilla group. You will still need to communicate with staff, but look at ways that small groups have fought against large groups historically and maybe apply it to your plans in game.

[BadSkeelz]

What's your point?

That it is happening, so it's kind of discourteous to tell people they should be doing it. Also, a couple of your suggestions (especially any requiring permanent changes to a room) would require pretty heavy staff support and pre-approval which is kind of running counter to the whole original point of this thread.

[Delirium]

You can wage war like a terror cell or a guerrilla group. You will still need to communicate with staff, but look at ways that small groups have fought against large groups historically and maybe apply it to your plans in game.

The thing is - when that is the limit of what you can do, and it doesn't seem to have any real impact, it starts getting to the point where you go "well, now what?"

(and we circle back around to needing staff support; and more than that - staff allowing players to succeed)

[Barzalene]

I thought one of the things about the copper war that really made it fun was that there was a front. Something to go to. There were small ongoing events instead of one big on. I think we actually could do that without too much staff work. Some oversight. Some involvement. But once we found something to contest we could all be there and contest it. Or maybe I'm being overly optimistic.

Remembering what staff said about that conflict after, I don't think this is a correct impression. It required a ton of work on their part.

Oh, I'm sure it did. Especially to get everyone and every thing in place.

But I think pcs could, manage their own skirmishes if someone made a plan and others showed up. Not battles, but skirmishes. And it might be fun.

[Barzalene]

You can wage war like a terror cell or a guerrilla group. You will still need to communicate with staff, but look at ways that small groups have fought against large groups historically and maybe apply it to your plans in game.

The thing is - when that is the limit of what you can do, and it doesn't seem to have any real impact, it starts getting to the point where you go "well, now what?"

You're likely right. But no one is doing it. So, maybe it would lead to things. Maybe no. Maybe it would suck or be boring. But it might be worth trying.

[HavokBlue]

I can't speak for every role but if you're in a leadership role and you communicate with staff and involve people, I think they will be more receptive to things than most people give staff credit for.

People always talk about how they're unable to do (insert thing here) and then I look at my experiences and think "well they just signed off on that big plot to discover Steinal and hey check it out my plans to systematically assassinate the entire of the House Fuckwood aren't being shut down. I'm glad I'm communicating and involving people!"

[RogueGunslinger]

What's your point?

That it is happening, so it's kind of discourteous to tell people they should be doing it. Also, a couple of your suggestions (especially any requiring permanent changes to a room) would require pretty heavy staff support and pre-approval which is kind of running counter to the whole original point of this thread.

People want things to happen and to be a part of it. People who feel like there's nothing going on. I told them this stuff is going on, and they can be a part of it, and they can even make up similar ideas.

You saying those things are going on and have happened just proves the point I was trying to make that people can be a part of the war without having massive HRPT skirmishes every couple months.

[Delirium]

I've have thought for a while that adding NPC raiders back into the game could be a fun option, though I can't take credit for the idea.

Add in some Tuluki/Allanaki guerilla-style raiders in the north and south, that operate much like gith do now. That could add in a bit of sustained conflict and make it at least a little bit less "out of the ordinary" (and therefore somewhat less immediately squashed) if PCs started their own "raid the opposite city" crews.

Plus, anything to make the desert a bit more dangerous without necessarily being a deathtrap is a good thing.

[Barzalene]

I've have thought for a while that adding NPC raiders back into the game could be a fun option, though I can't take credit for the idea.

Add in some Tuluki/Allanaki guerilla-style raiders in the north and south, that operate much like gith do now. That could add in a bit of sustained conflict and make it at least a little bit less "out of the ordinary" (and therefore somewhat less immediately squashed) if PCs started their own "raid the opposite city" crews.

Plus, anything to make the desert a bit more dangerous without necessarily being a deathtrap is a good thing.

That sounds fun.

[Delirium]

You can wage war like a terror cell or a guerrilla group. You will still need to communicate with staff, but look at ways that small groups have fought against large groups historically and maybe apply it to your plans in game.

The thing is - when that is the limit of what you can do, and it doesn't seem to have any real impact, it starts getting to the point where you go "well, now what?"

You're likely right. But no one is doing it. So, maybe it would lead to things. Maybe no. Maybe it would suck or be boring. But it might be worth trying.

People have done it. And it didn't really lead to anything.

Granted, that might have been due to X factor and Y factor... but my point is, people have made sustained, prolonged efforts at keeping the conflict and war plots going on, so (directed at RGS) the suggestion that players only need to take up the mantle and try a little is borderline insulting.

[Barzalene]

Oh. I ... yeah.

That aside, I think we could all enjoy some escalating and de-escalating hostilities. And I don't mean that as any kind of dig at anyone. I don't mean that I think anyone is doing it wrong. It's just a thought and the next question is how. And how is a  harder question.

[TheWanderer]

Could we just, like, send PCs back to those outposts from the HRPT and have missions delivered by staff? Hell. Anything? It seems like we all just got a firm pat on the buttocks and then were sent back home, as to never again visit the horrors of this war that I've heard no PC acknowledge in months. I'm 99% percent sure that this HRPT was called the start of a war in the following updates to the Armageddon website.

IG, we've been at (I assume, at least) 'war' for years. Shouldn't there be a growing number of casualties and a heavier burden of taxation on the common populace? Wouldn't food become more scarce as more of it is sent off to the front? Civil unrest as -more- citizens die to starvation? A riot, maybe? It's been years, and things weren't that peachy in either city beforehand.

Again, that's assuming the war didn't already end and I just missed that tidbit. But... you could have Tuluki players try to burn down farming villages, Allanaki players defend those villages -- small skirmishes that actually have a meaningful impact in a desert where it's difficult to come by fertile land. Riots, social upheaval, something grand to facilitate better rp than, "Hey, I killed a beetle," with the following grunt and, "Cool."

There were and are so many opportunities.  We don't need to have another war, we just need to flesh out the one everybody's forgotten about.

[Delirium]

... which requires staff support.

/plink plink, I'm done here.