Change implemented for sorcerers

[Jingo]

dwarf warrior sorcs

desert elf ranger sorcs

God help us all.

[Armaddict]

I think what I'm most excited about is that this dissolves the sorcerer as a fundamental character concept, and it opens the door to mundane-turned-sorcerer concepts, which are far, far more interesting.  If you have the karma, or the special app juice, I don't see any viable reason to play a true mundane anymore.

In the future, I would like to think that the sorcerer CLASS will become extremely popular and common, but that most of those sorcerers will live and die and be played entirely as mundane characters.  Imagine it: your Byn unit has two warriors, a ranger, an assassin, and some thiefly-type that's probably a burglar.  And they're ALL latent sorcerers.  Your Tuluki warrior serves the Legion for ten years, works his way up in the ranks before being tempted by true power.  No magick double life.  No apartment casting.  No working as an aide.  No cave-dwelling, or destroyed wagon-squatting.  No sneaking out of the gates at night.  Just a bunch of normal characters that have the capacity to develop into scary ass sorcerers.

This should be fun.

please god no

Yes.  People will totally play only the mundane side of things, staring at their single 'wek' strength spell, waiting for the perfect moment for it to be cast and their true class to be revealed....then THEY WILL GROW INTO AN AMAZING CHARACTER.

[Marauder Moe]

Even if it can make for an awesome character, I certainly don't want it to be "extremely popular and common".

[Reiloth]

I don't think it will be extremely popular or common. The median of karma in the game is definitely not 5. It's probably 2 or 3 at best.

[BadSkeelz]

dwarf warrior sorcs

desert elf ranger sorcs

God help us all.

mul anything sorcs

Man, its too bad muls are bald. They'd make great super saiyans.

I don't think it will be extremely popular or common. The median of karma in the game is definitely not 5. It's probably 2 or 3 at best.

I'm also confident that staff aren't going to greenlight more than a few sorcerers in the game at a time.

[Jingo]

I don't actually know what the current power gradient for these sorcerers are yet. It seems implied though that the overall breadth of spells is reduced to one fourth.

Obviously we can't ask which or how many spells they'll end up with. But I would like to ask staff if the can elaborate on what their decision making process was/is for determining power limits and spell availability for the reimplementation of sorcerers.

For example, as a discussion point:  Would it be possible for a sorcerer to achieve a second path of magick late into their career? After much study and many dungeons crawled? Would staff allow/disallow/still thinking about it etc.

Could they potentially have a progression system similar to templars where they can have abilities added or removed based on the favor of one or more unworldy powers?

[Rathustra]

We restrict the ability for people to app-in high karma roles based on the number of such roles in game at the moment. So if 10 people apply for a spec-app'd sorcerer and there's already x sorcerers in the game, all or none of the applications will be rejected until such a time as there are less sorcerers in game.

Also [NPC_Sorcerer_of_note] is still as strong as they used to be, because as stated already, the old sorcerer guild exists but isn't available to players. There might also be NPCs out there who better fit the new model for sorcerers and will be build as such!

Also appeals to 'how magick works' doesn't really make sense - magick works the way the producers/coders decide it works. Any IC justification is outside the scope of this thread - but will be described IC as needed to those who need to know. Or it will at least be knowable by those who seek out such knowledge (and succeed).

Edit: I think Nyr grazed the issue of 'learning a second/third/fourth path of magick later on' in that right now we have no plans for allowing that.

[Armaddict]

Also appeals to 'how magick works' doesn't really make sense - magick works the way the producers/coders decide it works.

Cool.  I'll apply the same path of logic to my roleplay.  Docs no longer viable.

[Rathustra]

Also appeals to 'how magick works' doesn't really make sense - magick works the way the producers/coders decide it works.

Cool.  I'll apply the same path of logic to my roleplay.  Docs no longer viable.

Seems you've already applied it to your argument! Go hog wild!

[Saellyn]

Obviously docs notwithstanding it's up to the producers who own the game how changes take place, and docs are likely already being changed to reflect that. No need to be a total dick about it. If they want sorcs to be less "all encompassing" in the realm of magic, at least they haven't nerfed them viciously. They've actually given sorcerers a leg up in this situation. You don't fucking know whether ranger bob is just ranger bob or ranger bob with the ability to melt your balls off. That worries -me-.

[BadSkeelz]

I really feel bad for the Warrior-Thugs, Ranger-Hunters, and Assassin-Con Artists, and any other combinations where the skills are doubled-up. Without any extra skills to show off, the only logical assumption is going to be that they're all sorcerer subguilds.

[Norcal]

Rath, I was hoping you could respond to the question I posed above?

Thanks

[manonfire]

Any plans to change the name of the class from sorcerer to something more applicable?

[Saellyn]

The logical solution is to stop fucking trying to guildsniff, right folks ? I don't intentionally look at what guild people are, so you shouldn't either.

[Rathustra]

I don't know how I feel about this.  I think sorcerers were too powerful, but at the same time, it seems like they are being reduced to turbo-charged versions (and maybe not even that) of other magic guilds. I suppose it depends on the mix of spells they get in their chosen "path".  Hopefully they will not be limited to one element of magic.  I  reckon it was necessary, but I hope the baby has not been thrown out with the bath water.
What really interests me is that this may be a precursor for changes to the other magic guilds. Is it the plan to eventually make all types of magic a sub-guild?  This would be -very- cool as long as they were able to keep the full range of spells for their given element.

I can't comment on this as I am not involved in these changes. Sorry!

[BadSkeelz]

What really interests me is that this may be a precursor for changes to the other magic guilds. Is it the plan to eventually make all types of magic a sub-guild?  This would be -very- cool as long as they were able to keep the full range of spells for their given element.

That sounds stupidly OP.

[Marauder Moe]

I would love a full guild + elementalist.  So many disgusting possibilities...

It probably shouldn't be allowed.

[Gimfalisette]

I would love a full guild + elementalist.  So many disgusting possibilities...

It probably shouldn't be allowed.

It definitely shouldn't be allowed.

[Armaddict]

I would love a full guild + elementalist.  So many disgusting possibilities...

It probably shouldn't be allowed.

It definitely shouldn't be allowed.

But it makes them less isolated, which is good, so we should just DO IT.

[Is Friday]

As a guy who wrecked the hardest elementalist and extended sub ever (GOAT), I can attest that yes, yes that would be disgustingly powerful.

[Gimfalisette]

But it makes them less isolated, which is good, so we should just DO IT.

emote looks askance at ~armaddict

[wizturbo]

While I love the idea of these quarter-sorcerers being out there, hiding in plain sight, the loss of the penultimate sorcerer guild leaves me feeling like a significant part of this world will die away...the awe and potential of a full sorcerer going away completely is devastating to me.

I would feel SO much better if the staff decided that the sorcerer main guild required 10 or 11 CGP's, which meant that a very high karma player via special app could apply for this role.  It would make full sorcerers extremely rare (as they should be) and allow for only the most trusted players to play them...with a concept that'd been reviewed and approved by the staff via the special app process.

[Harmless]

While I love the idea of these quarter-sorcerers being out there, hiding in plain sight, the loss of the penultimate sorcerer guild leaves me feeling like a significant part of this world will die away...the awe and potential of a full sorcerer going away completely is devastating to me.

I would feel SO much better if the staff decided that the sorcerer main guild required 10 or 11 CGP's, which meant that a very high karma player via special app could apply for this role.  It would make full sorcerers extremely rare (as they should be) and allow for only the most trusted players to play them...with a concept that'd been reviewed and approved by the staff via the special app process.

I'd be fine with this. I don't think I ever wanted to be a defiler nor will I be able to be one but I still want a few rare PC controlled full sorcs out there. Just one at a time will make me much happier with this. I really hate seeing things removed without any IC events to go along with it.

[Beethoven]

I agree with wizturbo and Harmless.

[Rahnevyn]

The issue here isn't always about trust in a player. It's also about the way the player's role fits in to the game world, and the impact it has on other players. After a certain point, no matter how trusted the player, a sorcerer will hit the point where they have the ability to do some frightening things. Flexing the tiniest amount of muscle can get a PC killed; flexing a bit more muscle and you could wreck a Templar and a unit of militia or a whole tribe of desert elves. Sorcerers wind up with lots and lots of muscle to flex. Trusting a player to play a role responsibly isn't the same as having that role be something that fits into the game full time.

I like the new system in that it will still allow sorcerers to be plenty terrifying and scary, but at the same time it turns the average sorcerer concept into being a PC who wants to hide their dark secret and find ways to use their power, rather than playing a PC who wants to become the next dark lord of the universe. I'm excited to see some of the things you guys will do in game under that new paradigm.