Stat Rolls

[RogueGunslinger]

I think if there were no below average stats, and no ai stat, people would be a lot happier with their stats. Also sometimes it really feels like there's too great a stat range within the races, but too small a difference between them.

So instead of this:

Poor
Below Average
Average
Good              
Very Good        
Extremely Good
Excellent
Absolutely incredible


You would have this:

Average
Good
Extremely good           (old Very Good)
Excellent                     (old Extremely Good)
Absolutely incredible    (old Excellent)

[Is Friday]

Wow, what a "Everyone Gets A Ribbon" mentality for our harsh desert fantasy world.

[Beethoven]

It's not really "average" anymore if nobody is below average.

[RogueGunslinger]

It's already not average, first of all. And secondly playing weak, dumb, slow characters should be a choice, not something forced on you by code.

Who here has gotten a stat below average and enjoyed that? Not enjoyed themselves in spite of it, but actually enjoyed not being able to hold three items. Or wear a full set of leather armor?

[Is Friday]

Here we go.

[Beethoven]

Doesn't really bother me, I suppose, because I didn't prioritize that stat for a reason. I sacrificed my strength/endurance/whatever so that I could get a better roll on something else. Sometimes that means it's going to be complete crap. I'm okay with that, really.

[RogueGunslinger]

Yeah, we all know pickpockets don't need strength.

While I'm at it age shouldn't effect stats the way it does. When you're 55 in Zalanthas you should be one foot in the grave, not at the peak of your physical strength. Every 13 year old teenager should not have ai agility. In fact they should be rather clumsy without training.

[RogueGunslinger]

I could get a better roll on something else. Sometimes that means it's going to be complete crap. I'm okay with that, really.

What you're saying is you're accept it, even though it's illogical and not fun. I accept it to, in fact I was just bragging about my stats a couple weeks back. But it could be better.

[Beethoven]

What you're saying is you're accept it, even though it's illogical and not fun. I accept it to, in fact I was just bragging about my stats a couple weeks back. But it could be better.

I don't deny that there's room for improvement with the stat rolling system--I'm not a big fan of the whole crap-shoot feel that it brings to chargen--but I don't like the idea of making "average" the lowest possible roll that you can get, nor do I think that having fewer options with more difference between them is really going to fix anything.

[TheWanderer]

I dunno. I've only had, like, one poor in eight or nine characters. That was wisdom, and fuck wisdom.

Just prioritize for the role and things usually work out.

[Marauder Moe]

I like that some characters are exceptionally gifted, and most others are not.

The highs of playing a badass who's stronger/faster/tougher/smarter than everyone outweigh the times when you play a more averagely endowed schmuck who has to work harder than his gifted peers.

[TheWanderer]

I make sure all of my characters are averagely endowed, as to not seem ridiculous in their more private of moments.

[RogueGunslinger]

What you're saying is you're accept it, even though it's illogical and not fun. I accept it to, in fact I was just bragging about my stats a couple weeks back. But it could be better.

I don't deny that there's room for improvement with the stat rolling system--I'm not a big fan of the whole crap-shoot feel that it brings to chargen--but I don't like the idea of making "average" the lowest possible roll that you can get, nor do I think that having fewer options with more difference between them is really going to fix anything.

Who said anything about more distance? The distances are the same (I just changed the names a little bit, but the parenthesis makes it clear which is which).  And if you want your AI and Poor/below average you can opt in for it for them, I guess. But why force it on people?

If I want to play someone who's agile and skinny and long-legged, but the stat god ordained to give me ai strength, that sort've makes my concept weird, doesn't it? I mean I wouldn't exactly be crying but there would be a disconnect there between what I want my pc to be and what was portrayed. Stat ordering helps with this most of the time... but not always.

I dunno. I've only had, like, one poor in eight or nine characters. That was wisdom, and fuck wisdom.

Just prioritize for the role and things usually work out.

But it happens, and it sucks, and yes if you know the code you pretty much game your way out of it.

I like that some characters are exceptionally gifted, and most others are not.

The highs of playing a badass who's stronger/faster/tougher/smarter than everyone outweigh the times when you play a more averagely endowed schmuck who has to work harder than his gifted peers.

That wouldn't really go away. There's a very noticeable gap between average and excellent. And like I said before if you really want a chance at AI/below-average/poor you an opt in for it.

[Beethoven]

Who said anything about more distance?

I thought you did. My apologies. I misinterpreted this:

Also sometimes it really feels like there's too great a stat range within the races, but too small a difference between them.

to mean that you wanted to see more of a difference between the individual stat levels. I guess you were saying that you want to see more of a difference between the races.

[RogueGunslinger]

Not my most cleverly worded sentence to be sure. 

[Reiloth]

It might be nice if you could subtract from one stat and add to another, maybe just one level, to help divide the wealth. So you couldn't suck dry an AI to round out your shitty stats, but you could suck it down to Extremely Good, and bump your below average wisdom to average.

[slvrmoontiger]

Most characters of mine have started out with below average wisdom. It really sucks when you get a below average wisdom... Of course there was the half-giant I had that had a poor wisdom, now talk about sucking he didn't learn anything in the one IG year he lived.

Oh wanted to add. Wisdom is always changing. Wisdom by definition knowing something from experience and as a character ages they gain wisdom through their experiences. I think it should have the ability to increase as you learn and experience your environment.

As far as "All 13 year olds shouldn't have AI agility" I agree to a degree on this. Not that I've ever had a 13 year old character that's had an AI agility so your thought on "All" having it is completely incorrect.

[slvrmoontiger]

It might be nice if you could subtract from one stat and add to another, maybe just one level, to help divide the wealth. So you couldn't suck dry an AI to round out your shitty stats, but you could suck it down to Extremely Good, and bump your below average wisdom to average.

This is an interesting concept. I like this idea, maybe post something in Code Discussion for this.

[Norcal]

It's already not average, first of all. And secondly playing weak, dumb, slow characters should be a choice, not something forced on you by code.

Who here has gotten a stat below average and enjoyed that? Not enjoyed themselves in spite of it, but actually enjoyed not being able to hold three items. Or wear a full set of leather armor?

I had a d elf with poor strength once. She could not even use a spear. She was one of the meanest, PK loving (successful), bloodthirstiest members of her tribe. She rocked. My most favorite PC. She had to find other ways to kill and she did.

[Dances_with_toks]

oopsie!

[MeTekillot]

? ^^

[Dances_with_toks]

Move along, citizen.

[MeTekillot]

I, for one, thoroughly enjoy the low stat ranges. For every blow that I'vestruck that bounced from the fell shell and hide of carrus aand scrabs and tregils oh my, it was but another moment of bliss. In fact, please lower the ranges. I'd like to be knocked unconscious from two blows to my body instead of 3 because I'm a big fan of even numbers.

[Lizzie]

One of my last characters had below-average strength and it didn't have any effect on my game at all.
I've found if you don't prioritize, your stats set up automatically appropriate for your guild choice, taking your race into consideration.

That is to say - when I play a desert elf ranger, I'll need a light-weight bow, but I'll have no problem maxing out archery and hitting kryl with two arrows from 3 rooms away, if I work on it.

If I play a human burglar, I might stumble around with a lockpick a little longer than if I were an elf, but I'll be able to get into that apartment and probably carry out a lot more stuff than my elven adversary would.

I haven't ever played a dwarf, mul, or half-giant but I'm betting dollars to donuts that if I played a half-giant merchant, it'd take me a long-ass time to ever branch anything at all, but ain't nobody gonna chop down trees and cut them into wrecked logs like I can. I won't be nearly as perceptive as the half-elven merchant who sews clothing next to me in the Kadian hall, but that half-elven merchant won't be all that good at smacking down a pissed off gurth when some doofus brings a shelled one into the compound by mistake.

This is basically why I've stopped prioritizing. The game sets my stat priorities appropriately, and if I do anything different, I risk screwing it all up. I think stat-setting is good for people who *want* to be bad at something and want to make sure that happens code-wise. At least that's been my experience whenever I try to set mine.

[Delirium]

I agree with IsFriday.