"You both should end up working together more closely" (part 1) -- Marauder Moe

[Reiloth]

Something that's weird about this log is (likely) essential people that were around during that time are still around and playing PCs. I thought the log submission process took that into account (if IC events are still relevant, or will remain relevant, they aren't disclosed on the GDB/the website).

Color me conservative, but I was a little disappointed to read about this on the GDB.

[Malken]

I think it's a little silly to jump to conclusions like that.

People are human (silly, I know), meaning they make mistakes, think things are unimportant when they are important, and basically fuck up sometimes.

I bet a lot of Tuluki Templars were putting their feet in their mouth after the last HRPT.

Please, there are human mistakes and then there are obviously disregarded "mistakes". The PC I'm talking about and that we all know who I refer to wasn't the kind to make "mistakes" and to just, out of major coincidences, allow every single spies to pass under the radar this time. If even one of them had been caught, then chances are that this PC and other like her would be on a serious red alert, doing major background checks on every single PCs bumped into (Tuluk is always so few of PCs that it's nearly impossible that every single one of them would have managed to stay under the radar for so long, unless something that we don't know about yet was going on (hey, I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt as well).

As much as I think that I'm the old cynical grumpy bastard of the GDB, I feel like you're on the other side of the spectrum, the blind Armageddon cheerleader who is unwilling to agree that sometime fishy decisions could be made by Staff and players alike, and this is one example where there are way too many coincidences and "luck" involved.

It also seems like you're wanting to shut this discussion rather quickly with your next post about the log. If the log has been posted, then my (and many others') questions are legit. Also, what I refer to, and that I've been told by Nyr in the past, isn't some major Tuluki secrets anymore, it's in the docs. Tuluki Templars have mindreading capabilities and Nyr himself agreed that this was a known aspect of the game.

I think that sweeping my concerns (well, not so much concerns, since I'm more awfully curious than concerned) wouldn't do much good because I have a feeling that most questions during the Staff/Player meeting will be centered around stuff like that.

By some miracle and luck, EVERY spies have managed to keep under the radar and survive what MANY players have been complaining about Tuluk for years, which is that it's nearly impossible to start major plotlines/crimes that are not in agreement with the Faithfuls because of said Faithfuls power to be ever-seeing, but because it's a Staff-ran plotline, it's suddenly possible and not only possible but lead to the expected ending.

I would even go as far as asking if we could see these PCs' backgrounds and bios (if said PCs are out of the game, of course) so that we can see the kind of background and bios that would be allowed in game AND allow us to survive the ever-seeing Eye of Mordor Tuluk.

Thank you kindly for your time.

[Reiloth]

Do you even play anymore?

I don't mean that in a 'mean' way, I just see you poke your head up for angry sort of rant posts every now and then, especially if they're targeted towards the degradation of the game and Staff rah rah rah. I vaguely remember that you haven't played in a while, which may contribute to your cynical attitude towards the game.

I'm not a cheerleader as much as a realist. People make mistakes, even people who apparently 'don't make mistakes'. PCs played by people make mistakes, because the people playing them are human, and make mistakes.

Derpy spies will likely get caught -- judging by the log, these were deep cover almost sleeper cell spies who were virtual years in the making. I imagine there were several opportunities for them to get caught, and somehow, they didn't. I doubt that was because of Divine (Staff) intervention, and more the error of PCs, and also that "Tuluk" didn't see it coming.

Although that does beg the catch 22 question of Muk seeing 'everything' coming, so maybe he wanted this to happen? That's a dose of weird.

[Reiloth]

I've also run similar kinds of plots on various PCs over the years, in Tuluk and Allanak, as a PC with no Staff intervention or encouragement. I've also never complained about the 'overbearing nature' of Tuluki Templars or how they find out about stuff and shut it down. I think it's jumping to conclusions to state 'because this is Staff run, it will not fail'. Just as it would be as silly to state 'because it is player run, it is doomed to fail'. These are black and white statements that are incongruent with reality.

The vocal minority in this case are people who want to be criminals and not play by the rules. They want to lie to one or many sides, and get away with it, every time. They want the people they're working for to be idiots, or somehow not catch on. Meanwhile, the true 'idiot' is the PC planning out the elaborate spy scheme. They complain (rather loudly) on the GDB that the crime code in Tuluk is broken, or that Templars are over-powered, and so on, when they are caught, but usually fail to realize the common denominator in their 'plot failing' was the man/woman in the mirror.

While these spies may have had a leg up, in that they had much of their virtual time pre-character creation already spoken for (Which arguably could be the most difficult part), they seemed to act accordingly and not get caught. Hindsight, 20/20, etc. We can speculate all we want, but the result is clear by IC events, and with (seemingly) little Staff intervention.

[Malken]

Do you even play anymore?

I don't mean that in a 'mean' way, I just see you poke your head up for angry sort of rant posts every now and then, especially if they're targeted towards the degradation of the game and Staff rah rah rah. I vaguely remember that you haven't played in a while, which may contribute to your cynical attitude towards the game.

I'm not a cheerleader as much as a realist. People make mistakes, even people who apparently 'don't make mistakes'. PCs played by people make mistakes, because the people playing them are human, and make mistakes.

Derpy spies will likely get caught -- judging by the log, these were deep cover almost sleeper cell spies who were virtual years in the making. I imagine there were several opportunities for them to get caught, and somehow, they didn't. I doubt that was because of Divine (Staff) intervention, and more the error of PCs, and also that "Tuluk" didn't see it coming.

Although that does beg the catch 22 question of Muk seeing 'everything' coming, so maybe he wanted this to happen? That's a dose of weird.

What does it matter if I play or don't play anymore? I've been playing this game for like.. Jesus, I'm old. If you take all the hours I've spent on that game, I would probably be in the top 10 of people who have spent the most time ever on Arm. I love Arm, I care about Arm, that's why I make angry sort of rant posts every now and then (You can say I'm the Adam Sessler of Armageddon). Do I still even play anymore? I haven't played in a month and a couple of weeks, I think, but then I've put in a storage request like five days ago with the thought that maybe I'd want to play again, but I like to think that all is fair and square in game, rules-wise and decisions wise. If a Faithful power was too ridiculously powerful to the point that it was politely asked that she would "tone it down" a bit for the sake of the plotline, then I like to think that it will now be like that for everyone else. Like I said, changes were made and maybe because of IC stuff that happened during the plotline? I said that I was willing to give it the benefit of the doubt.

So I'm sorry that you can't shut me up because I do not reply to your lame "Do you even lift, brah?" question with a negative answer. Yes, I still think about Armageddon almost daily and yes, sometime I think of coming back, if you can think of a month of break has "leaving the game".

Being realistic is fine, but like I say, too many coincidences and "laissez-passe" has been giving, or at least that's the impression that I get, during that plotline to allow the special PCs to do their "thang".

Tuluk not seeing coming spies? C'mon, Tuluk sees SPIES in every citizens, non-citizens, pets and whatever crawls the streets. That's what Tuluk is ALL ABOUT. Muk Utep and all of his "children" are paranoid to a T. They see spies and evil-doers in everyone that does not walk the walk and talk the talk, and even then.

I don't see how anyone would be able to keep from thinking about what their true purposes are.. The harder you try not to think of something, the more often you think about it.. So how did they keep from remaining a sleeper cell? Perma-mindshield? Maybe.. But how do you shield your past from someone who can glance at it? Like I said, maybe the other logs will reveal it.

[Malken]

The vocal minority in this case are people who want to be criminals and not play by the rules. They want to lie to one or many sides, and get away with it, every time. They want the people they're working for to be idiots, or somehow not catch on. Meanwhile, the true 'idiot' is the PC planning out the elaborate spy scheme. They complain (rather loudly) on the GDB that the crime code in Tuluk is broken, or that Templars are over-powered, and so on, when they are caught, but usually fail to realize the common denominator in their 'plot failing' was the man/woman in the mirror.

We're talking about SPIES, here, Tuluk's #1 enemies of the state. Not petty crimes or dumbasses attempting to burn down the Sanctuary.

How do you know it's the vocal minority? People are just afraid to say that this plot line goes against anything Tuluk-doc-related because angering the Staff is not the best of ideas. I'm just the dumb fuck who's taking the hit and saying outloud what many thinks, but then, you can argue that I could also be alone in thinking that since neither of us know what the majority thinks, only Faithful Ladies would know that (hah - hah, an IC joke).

Anyway, like I said, you and I are both edges of a spectrum that will never agree, so there's no point in arguing with you (no offense, I've known some of your past PCs and you're a great RPer/player, I just tend to disagree most of the time with you on the GDB) so I'll wait and see. Hopefully this won't be swept under the carpet and I'd much rather have answers to my questions via another log than with OOC answers, to be honest.

[Reiloth]

We've agreed several times on the GDB, and I imagine we will agree and disagree with each other many future times.

I think we will both get what we ask for in a way -- I imagine this isn't the first and last log in this respect, and as such, further information will be divulged. I'm not even a fan really of these being added so quickly to the history page (Historically, history additions were few and far between, and while I like the increased rate at which stuff is getting added, i'm not sure if it's 'world news' to add things like that so quickly).

[Malken]

We've agreed several times on the GDB, and I imagine we will agree and disagree with each other many future times.

I think we will both get what we ask for in a way -- I imagine this isn't the first and last log in this respect, and as such, further information will be divulged. I'm not even a fan really of these being added so quickly to the history page (Historically, history additions were few and far between, and while I like the increased rate at which stuff is getting added, i'm not sure if it's 'world news' to add things like that so quickly).

Well, to be honest with you, I'm pretty surprised as well that this log was even posted, so I guess you're right, we do agree on some stuff, heh.

[KankWhisperer]

The vocal minority in this case are people who want to be criminals and not play by the rules. They want to lie to one or many sides, and get away with it, every time. They want the people they're working for to be idiots, or somehow not catch on. Meanwhile, the true 'idiot' is the PC planning out the elaborate spy scheme. They complain (rather loudly) on the GDB that the crime code in Tuluk is broken, or that Templars are over-powered, and so on, when they are caught, but usually fail to realize the common denominator in their 'plot failing' was the man/woman in the mirror.

I've never played a criminal in Tuluk for one thing. The stuff written about templars cracking down on even the pettiest crimes with mind powers seems true in my personal experience. It seems like you are attempting to cast anyone who dissents into a bad light.

[Kismetic]

I don't care for these debate-y threads, but since I do have some experience with Tuluk, I wanted to chime in:

Although that does beg the catch 22 question of Muk seeing 'everything' coming, so maybe he wanted this to happen? That's a dose of weird.

That's less a dose of weird, and more in line with the lore of the city.  Muk Utep widely claims to possess precognition throughout the history of Tuluk, and it even explains how he is able to keep a psionic/supercop templarate in check for centuries.

Perhaps stranger are the events surrounding what was allowed to happen.  Sometimes, I wonder if Tek and Muk aren't just playing izdari in some necroverse, and it goes something like:  "Hey, I'll help you do some restructuring if you let me have that thing you know I want."

Anyway, back to your usual station.  It's amusing watching everyone motherfuck each other Tuluki style.

[Reiloth]

The vocal minority in this case are people who want to be criminals and not play by the rules. They want to lie to one or many sides, and get away with it, every time. They want the people they're working for to be idiots, or somehow not catch on. Meanwhile, the true 'idiot' is the PC planning out the elaborate spy scheme. They complain (rather loudly) on the GDB that the crime code in Tuluk is broken, or that Templars are over-powered, and so on, when they are caught, but usually fail to realize the common denominator in their 'plot failing' was the man/woman in the mirror.

I've never played a criminal in Tuluk for one thing. The stuff written about templars cracking down on even the pettiest crimes with mind powers seems true in my personal experience. It seems like you are attempting to cast anyone who dissents into a bad light.

The operative word here is 'seems' true. It is true some of the time, depending on the Templar PC. Most of the time, it isn't. I have quite a bit of experience playing a Tuluki Criminal, both in Undertuluk (Anti-System) and through proper channels (System). I just think the people that bitch about Templars Hatin' are usually people who got the short end of the stick, and they want to complain vocally about it. I don't think that means it's 'the way it is'.

It's sort of proven by you saying you have never played a criminal in Tuluk, but you think that's how it is. I have played a criminal in Tuluk, and believe from my experience that isn't the case. I imagine the truth is somewhere in-between these extremes.

[KankWhisperer]

I've played a Legionnaire. I've seen other people caught over quite a few years. I don't think that makes what I've seen worthless. And you said anyone who is in the vocal minority is an idiot.

[Harmless]

i think the imms have the right to manipulate PCs' fates, but in my opinion, if the staff care enough about a PC's plots to take vNPC/NPC action to end those PCs' plots, then they really should make a fair exchange with that player in return.

What I really dislike is when my plots are ended abruptly by staff-mediated action but that I don't really feel like I'm appreciated for playing the parts of the PCs who get killed in arena fights or by imm-controlled bandits or whatever. I keep losing my precious PCs and I don't ever get much more than a "Sorry bout that!" when they die, if anything at all.

There is something the imms could do for me... for my account, that would make me forgive all of the recent PCs I've lost to their actions, but it hasn't happened yet. I'm not asking for much... just some of the coded recognition and benefits that other players get when they try to do something in the gameworld and fail due to imm action... something that starts with a K.

[James de Monet]

What...is happening...in this thread?

The pbase clamours for staff run plots, the staff run a plot, and people want to critique it for style and realism? I mean...I understand the nature of these gripes, but...I just feel like this falls under suspension of disbelief.

Do you have a good chance of getting [found out] as a scum type in Tuluk? Oh yes. But if it was going to happen every time, they wouldn't need armed guards, would they? They would know where the criminals are and what they were going to do. Also, just the sheer ratio of commoners to templars dictates that most observation without probable cause is going to be cursory and infrequent.

If these people were sleeper agents, and they got watched on a day when they were cleaning their armor or writing songs, or just living a normal day in their years-long Tuluki lives, what is there to discover? Not a lot. Next victim.

Also, most totalitarian states make it their business to root out spies with extreme prejudice. They might not have [unnatural] abilities, but they tap phones, use cameras, GPSs, etc, and still spies slip through their fingers.  Why would we suppose this to be any different?



Self-edited after the fact to better protect potentially IC info.

[Cabooze]

Sorry to admit, but I skimmed over a lot of the posts because they tend to say the same things.

(this is just a noob like me's opinion on the matter)

I think the reason why this was permitted to happen by His Faithful ladies and Muk Utep himself and looked over, is because Muk Utep, apparently being the omnipotent individual he is, knew that the spies would amount to virtually nothing in the end, and simply allowed for the fiasco out of humor. He probably could have ended it at any point in time if he so decided that his life was in direct threat.

[decades]

Maybe staff will answer the various questions about how much (if anything) the v/N/PC templarate knew about these spies before the HRPT, but a couple of things are worth considering:

Muk Utep and His abilities to predict possible outcomes and future events (as described in the Coming soon... posts in Staff Announcements). Even if the Sun King for some reason wasn't aware of the spies' identities, the outcome of their actions would have been known and measures taken if called for.

What did Tuluk actually gain from the HRPT? Without going into too much detail, I believe it's safe to say they forced Allanak to show their hand in several ways (use of deep cover spies, war strategies, diplomacy etc). Tuluk got rid of Isar's tree (which was an important site for the Jihaens, but hey.. the Lirathans returned to power) without considerable city-side casualties. The Lirathans got an excuse to wipe out undesirables such as foreigners and the Hlum who had become a bit uppity in recent times. The Tan Muark were destroyed to everyone's relief, although having a volcano in the backyard doesn't come off as wonderful right away. Muk also had His Templarate in a state where dissolving the Orders and merging them into one would meet the least resistance. Far from everything went Tuluk's way, but the benefits do appear to weigh heavier than the downsides to the situation.

All in all, my point is that these spies did not only hurt Tuluk but rather helped facilitate some of the desired changes in the city. Yes, that was the staff's intention all along but I hope my post shows some of the IC reasoning (regardless of what was or wasn't known before the HRPT).

[Patuk]

I'm with Malken here. To argue that maybe just maybe some people could slip through the cracks because Tuluk is big and there are only a few lirathans makes frightfully little sense when you consider the facts: for one, magickers never casting spells and people talking smack about nobles behind closed doors have been lirathan'd, and for another, two of the spy pc's were not your typical quoet commoners, they were a freaking Hlum noble and his consort. I'm just not buying it. I am not buying into the arguments of anyone who wants to tell me that somehow, two people present at a ceremony where a pair of lowly commoners are elevated into the very city elite, that same ceremony attended by multiple lirathans no less, would somehow go fine entirely, without any lirathan whatsoever taking note of the true nature of what's going  on.

So yeah, not buying it. Either the lirathan order so collectively dropped the ball that not a single one of them noticed that the people they were turning into nobility had not even been in the city for five years, or it was all a ploy to such an extent that only all of one PC could have known what really has went on.

[Cutthroat]

Maybe this plot was less about creating conflict specifically within the plot itself, and more about opening up the city to different kinds of conflict and change, and making roles more viable that previously weren't. What the spies pulled off was just the start compared to what Tuluk did to itself in the chain reaction that followed, which involved more PCs and could continue to involve PCs if the playerbase's default attitude was to try something new, rather than complain about how it used to be as if things are still the same. That's not a slight toward anyone, or me saying that those complaints are incorrect for the time within the game that they were still relevant, because no two players have the same experience. But the longer we go, the more outdated the complaints are - for example, the complaints about Lirathans shutting down plots, when there aren't even Lirathans anymore, and no one really knows what PC Faithful are capable or incapable of doing on their own now.

Focusing on the big picture might be the imperative here. I would suggest we give the benefit of the doubt to players involved and wait for more to come out through logs, rather than possibly discouraging those players with criticism when the entire log isn't even out yet.

[decades]

First rule about Secret Conspiracy Club: Don't think about Secret Conspiracy Club!
Second rule about Secret Conspiracy Club: Don't think about Secret Conspiracy Club!

Speaking for myself, I was very aware that it would be easy to play a pretty much flawlessly secret spy - but that wouldn't have been fair to other players, the story, and wouldn't have been half as exciting. It was a fine line between making it painfully obvious, and painfully obscure.

I had to balance ooc and ic knowledge - both mine and other players' - as well as juggling adrenalin and whatever else was going on. For example - in the scene above, if a Faithful (or other PC) had been watching in on that scene - ooc they would have noticed that a Hlum guard is in play. (*brrrrin brrrrin* curiosity alarm bells!). If they were a 'bender they might have noticed that Alize was busy making sure her 'mate' wasn't about to sneak/come in and start asking awkward questions...and so on.

I think that struck a more subtle, interesting balance than:

think Oooh, my secret handler has just wayed because I'm a spy for Allanak. I'd better wall up immediately between making sure blah blah blah...

I really like your approach as described, Booya.

Also, it was a huge risk to use Adaren's name as a call sign. Clever too, with the possibly coincidental similarity to a real Master Irofel's name.

Looking forward to more parts of these logs and the plot progression.

[Nyr]

I don't want to start a conversation about another plot or topic entirely,  but for those of you saying or thinking this couldn't be done by normal PCs, I very much challenge that point.

Agreed.  Seems to be overlooked.

wow
much cynical
very cheat
such lame

So...this is a thread for discussion of the actual log posted, and the majority (posted by a minority) response seems to be:

"I don't buy it.  This is a bullshit plot.  It wouldn't past muster IC and it should've been nixed IC.  Someone obviously fucked up.  Wait, no, the players cheated.  Staff helped the players out in setting them up so staff cheated.  Staff should've caught this by animating the world properly, I don't buy this whole thing.  It's all contrived.  Mindbenders!  They'd know what is going on!  Staff didn't animate the virtual world of the Tuluki templarate correctly!  I demand you show me more so that I can be convinced that this was a legitimate plot!"

Well, for starters, this is a single log. From one PC involved.  A very simple thing, meant as something to go in some sort of chronological order to progress through the overall plotline of the spies prior to the HRPT.  I have about a half-dozen to sift through, some which cannot be posted due to existing PCs being mentioned (some which can possibly be edited).  I hope to have some more.

Yet somehow, from this single log, a vocal minority of players take major issue with it, clamoring for proof, logs, whatever.  Honestly, the way you (the vocal minority in general) are asking for it and how you are acting and how you've presented yourselves regarding this is disappointing.  You seem more eager to find fault, to complain, to whinge...than you are to be excited and engaged about the game, that you could do the same thing if you pulled your head out of the sand (or some other cynical orifice).  In fact, it makes me wonder--are you even excited and engaged about the game at all?  Do you play out of a sense of obligation and duty and  just go through the motions hoping to recapture that out-of-reach high of the golden years, back before x or y thing happened that made you jaded to the game?  What does it say about you when your first response to the first log posted about special roles involved in an HRPT is "bullshit?"  Is there anything that would actually convince you, or would you just try to shoot holes in that, too, until we handed over the raw code of the game and actual staff logs showing what happened, stamped by a notary public, at which point you'd claim they were doctored? What interest do you have in the story here and the story of the game and these characters?  Do you actually want to know what happens next and what they did?  No one is even approaching that, no--the vocal minority wants to know about fairness, about how it wasn't bullshit, about how this reeks of this or that, with others responding to that whether in slight agreement (as some of the above cynical posters) or in disagreement.

When/if more is posted, it will be posted because we're sharing the story behind this plot in a way that lines up with the rules of this board.  If we reveal more about the background of other stuff going on that might have affected the PCs involved, then we will reveal that because we want to share the story and engage the playerbase.   If and when we post more, I'm pretty confident all of the naysayers will still be naysaying, and more than likely (if it continues in this fashion at least) it will likely get moderated in the future, as it has little to do with the log posted.  "Oh, but Nyr, you saying that just means it's a shitty plot and it will get holes shot in it!"  Well, fictional hypothetical responder, I already said we took those things into account and had a larger story in mind, some of which may never be revealed openly as it can be more fun to develop IC (or OOC) theories about it.  I think there are some things we could have done better and things that we could do differently for future plots (whether large or small) but we did the plot.  What did you do, fictional hypothetical responder?  Lob some phat logic bombs at an internet forum about how your fan-fiction plot would've been better because in the first log that you would post, you'd tell everything the reader wanted to know?  If you doubt my word that we took a lot of things into account, why are you even reading this post?  Sheesh, go put in a staff complaint, it'll make you happier!   

Why do I post this?  Because quite frankly, we on staff don't cater to anyone that approaches any game plot (or even just this one, or the game itself) with a Truther or Birther mentality about the things that went into it.  We are here for the players that are willing to play the game and make us go "wow, that was a great scene," or "wow, that's just a great roleplayer, there--let's put them in a role!" or "holy cow, this player just did this thing with her PC and we can totally USE that in this other plot!"  We're here for the players that, when presented with something that they don't immediately understand...they respond with considering how it COULD work, IC, rather than how it is a failure.  We're here for players that see possibilities, intrigue, and mystery.

We came up with a plot.  We involved players.  We pulled off an HRPT.  It had long-term effects on the gameworld, which was the intention.  It was fun.  We're posting logs here and there and we might put up more, the intent being to share some of the story that many may not have seen.  We like the story of the game, we aim to move it forward with plots akin to this one that involve staff assistance and player involvement, and we hope that you would like to get involved in the future.

If not, there are other games out there that I hope will meet your expectations.    For now, though, if you do wish to involve yourself here and in this game, it'd be nice if you kept your responses on topic and about the particular log.

[Nyr]

Moderated a post that has nothing to do with the log.  If you want to discuss your own anecdotal history of failure at specific plots more specifically than you've done so in the moderated post, please put in a request.  I would be more than happy to discuss with you.  If you want to appeal for more karma, please put in a request.  If you want to discuss this log in particular please do so.

[Nyr]

Thread moderated, again, as mentioned.  Let's actually get on topic, any further posts will result in action beyond moderation.  If you don't have anything to say about this particular log or the scene in question then maybe find something else to do with your time, you don't have to post here.

[RogueGunslinger]

New thread so Nyr doesn't have to keep banning people. 

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,47771.0.html

[Lizzie]

What interest do you have in the story here and the story of the game and these characters?  Do you actually want to know what happens next and what they did?  No one is even approaching that, no--the vocal minority wants to know about fairness, about how it wasn't bullshit, about how this reeks of this or that, with others responding to that whether in slight agreement (as some of the above cynical posters) or in disagreement.

I read the log posts, more than skimmed but less than scrutinized. I had a character alive during this, but not directly involved in any of it. She was more of an observer from a distance to certain aspects of the events. I, as a player, was mostly clueless and didn't realize that the whole spy stuff was done by players with sponsored roles, until I saw this thread. I thought it was just virtual stuff you built into the events to flesh out what happened.

So here's my answer to these questions, from the perspective of what I've just described on my involvement (or lack thereof):

I had trouble following the log, mostly because I had no context to draw from. I lost interest, then gained it back, intermittantly throughout.

Not really understanding what was happening, I'm not especially interested in what happened next.

I do have my opinions on the HRPT, but those opinions are irrelevant in this thread.

I think many people are not posting their opinion about the log itself, because it just isn't interesting enough to post about. If it was, I think you'd see more people chiming in with their opinion on the log, and fewer people chiming in on the events that the log was about. Perhaps those are the "non-vocal majority?"

Personally I'd love to know the details of what happened during the HRPT - but I don't want the "Tuluk's IC spin" on it or the last remaining Tan Muark's personal accounting of it. I'd be interested in knowing more of an OOC timeline of the events, from the perspective of the players and staff *directly* involved. So maybe - the player of one spy telling us all his observations of what happened. And compare with Nyr's observations of what happened. Compare again with whatever Lirathan or Jihaen was most involved, their player telling us their observations of what happened. And so on and so forth - all the "leaders" of each faction giving an OOC accounting of their OOC version of what happened.

That would definitely be interesting to me. But I like analyzing stuff like that, and I don't expect others to have a similar interest.

[Inks]

I wonder if this was released when it was to show the playerbase that [a certain ability] has been retconned out. If so it's a great step towards playability.

(edited by Delirium: please don't reference to or speculate on stuff like this on the gdb, you know better than that, guys.)