Topic to discuss the coded protections in the city-states.

[Patuk]

I wish I could say more, too. All I can say is that the code is not so subtle. It doesn't discriminate between the harmful and the benign, the greater and the lesser feats of magick. Cast a spell inside city limits? You are now officially screwed. Good luck!

[Norcal]

I ran into something that was a bug, at least so I was told.

[Nyr]

Patuk, I went so far as to say this much here:

a) will proper precautions against discovery make any difference whatsoever?

Yes, taking proper precautions can make a difference.

I'll make an additional note to clarify:  it makes a difference.  How much of one is debatable because you are still going to face a challenge casting magick at all in Tuluk.  Tuluk does not like magickers and will be keenly watching for them.  Allanak, on the other hand, actually has magickers working on its behalf; it has a more nuanced response that is not similar to the one in Tuluk.  So:  proper preparations will help, but depending on the situation and how you then act afterwards, you may not be able to realize those benefits.

b) is this an added layer of challenge, or is this an instant-death scenario?

Added layer of challenge.  If you wish to employ magick against either city-state then you now are facing what would be a codedly realistic reflection of that scenario.  It will probably be more difficult to play a "hidden magicker" in Tuluk, but still--not impossible.

I might've underplayed how big a layer of challenge it was because it was already difficult to play a hidden magicker in Tuluk.

If you have specific feedback, we can definitely take it into account, but you'll probably need to contact us via request to let us know what your thoughts are.  I agree, maybe the help magick helpfiles can be updated to reflect these coded changes.

[Patuk]

For what it's worth, I disliked Tuluk's former manner of rooting out magick as well. The new defences aren't much of an improvement in my eyes, or really an improvement at all.

I'm glad to hear that Allanak hasn't quite so stringent a problem at least. It is comforting.

[ShaLeah]

This one time, in Allanak, my Krathi left her temple on fire. Got all the way to the corpse pile. She should have been arrested for that. Though come to think of it, how's a Krathi gonna be subdued while on fire? More pondering is needed.

[TheWanderer]

Arrows to knees. Urine to fire. Boom.

[Pale Horse]

A looooong time ago, I played a hidden magicker in Tuluk.

At face value, they were an itinerant instrument player hopping to beg some coins with their playing in the various taverns.  They had a horrible singing voice.

They were completely convinced that they would be found out if they tried practicing any sort of magick inside the city.  So, they spent several weeks scouting out some "safe" places in the woods to do so.  They eventually died on one such incursion, but I was pretty convinced they'd end up that way, anyway.

Now, I haven't played a rogue magicker in Tuluk since, but it always seemed to me that anyone who was a born Northerner, who was "cursed" with magick would grow up with the utter assurance that they would be found out if they did anything other than normal stuff while within the city limits..or even a good few leagues away.  Rumors of what the Sun King's Faithful can do and all; or even just a sneaky Shadow Artist hanging out and observing you when you didn't expect it leading to your arrest/disappearance.  I know no specifics but it seems like there is now zero chance, by the code, of effecting magick "unobserved" in Tuluk.  Maybe when you cast, it sends out a "disturbance in the (psionic) force" that nearby Templars pick-up on leading to your automatic wanted state and description broadcast across the city.

If this is so..yeah, it sucks.  I can see it being "realistic" as far as how Tuluk would have developed it's magickal defenses.  But I also get the feelings from players of hidden magickers in Tuluk.  This is a new change, whatever is said about IG factors or "realism."  It is going to take some time to adjust our thinking and feelings and having a sudden, crippling, effect go in for an existing hidden mage just exasperates the hurt.  They had a routine going, and now it's gone.  Those who are effected may well feel targeted (in a way, they were) and it would take someone with a good deal of intestinal fortitude to take it in stride, let alone play it out as if it were all IG.

I can only council patience.

[Twilight]

I would find such to be extremely odd, especially for Tuluk.  Lets review the  history.

Year 64 Age 19:  Presumably whatever magickal defenses Tuluk has are insufficient to stop the Cataclysm.

Year 13 Age 20:  Presumably whatever magickal defenses Tuluk has are insufficient to overcome Allanaki templars, or their gemmed, on Tuluk turf.  At least initially.

Year 53 Age 20:  Presumably whatever magickal defenses Tuluk had before this point are insufficient to prevent a defiler from having a key place in the government and using magick inside Tuluk.


These all point to citywide defenses against magick being fairly recent, at least for Tuluk.  Unless they are using the thing from Year 13 Age 20.

I hope, at least, there is a difference in the protections that exist for elementalism to those that exist for sorcery, with the second being harder for the citystates to protect against.

[Zoan]

The unfortunate side-effect of this change is that it takes witch-hunting out of the hands of the Templar PCs - the ones equipped to counter witchcraft. If the crimcode's going to do all the work for them, what are the Magic Police going to do, besides torture regular folk? This is MY tax money I'm paying towards these supernatural wizard cops!

[Nyr]

I would find such to be extremely odd, especially for Tuluk.  Lets review the  history.

Year 64 Age 19:  Presumably whatever magickal defenses Tuluk has are insufficient to stop the Cataclysm.

Cataclysm, with a capital C.  What was that?  Something big enough to kill more than seventy thousand people?  You're probably going to be able to overcome the protections, were there any at this point in time in the first place.  For that matter, there were practicing mages allowed in Tuluk at that time; the Cataclysm is when Tuluk said "ok guys, srsly, magick is bad!"

Year 13 Age 20:  Presumably whatever magickal defenses Tuluk has are insufficient to overcome Allanaki templars, or their gemmed, on Tuluk turf.  At least initially.

Mentioned here and elsewhere, but at least one point to note here would be that when Allanak is mobilized against something, it, too, has a pretty sizable advantage in the field as far as magick is concerned.  I said earlier that PCs alone aren't going to be able to really pose a threat to any of these sorts of defenses; an actual occupation backed by dozens of templars, mages, and hundreds of soldiers would probably fall into the "bigger than PCs alone" category.

Additionally, you're assuming these protections were there then, but if they were, the above applies.  As you say, Tuluk was mostly occupied, but not the Pyramid.

Year 53 Age 20:  Presumably whatever magickal defenses Tuluk had before this point are insufficient to prevent a defiler from having a key place in the government and using magick inside Tuluk.

Dragonsthrall, not defiler, though the distinction isn't really that important.  The Jihaen Order used to use magick and there were elementalist temples in Tuluk prior to the Catacylsm; of course it allowed magick inside Tuluk!  

These all point to citywide defenses against magick being fairly recent, at least for Tuluk.

Interesting speculation!

[X-D]

I rather like the changes...whatever they are.

I have always had a problem with the idea of somebody playing a hidden mage in Tuluk, (less so in nak but I will explain that in a  moment).

I have had a problem with the idea in Tuluk because  no matter what reason the player has to do it, it always feels like an ooc construct because the player knew that there was no real way to be found out unless staff stepped in or they made a silly mistake...yet the PC should not know this, The PC, if raised in Tuluk  would BELIEVE with all their heart and mind that the all knowing templarate would find them, there would be no thought of "Oh I can hide it." Other reasons as well, but that is the main one.

Now in Nak, being a hidden mage...Eh, my thoughts on that is, First as a PC, the thought should not be so much "I can  hide this." But more "I will act normal as long as I can." Knowing one day that gem will get slapped on them. From a Templar/city/staff side I just always figured they were like "Well, We have enough gemmed right now anyway...we will grab up those that think they are hidden when we need them."

So...if this current code actually represents this...GREAT.

[Inky]

Can we get any details at all? I'm actually afraid to manifest my unmanifested magicker because it seems like I'm going to lose my character during my first cast. All of these vagueries are really unhelpful when it already takes a slew of characters to find out what is and what is not possible.

[Adhira]

If you are manifesting in a city where manifesting is allowed (ie Allanak) then you need not fear for your life any more than you would have in the past. If you're manifesting in Tuluk where magick is illegal then you will want to consider that environment and what the reaction will be should you be found out.

If you are playing a magicker and you wish to 'manifest' icly you can always put in a request to ask staff for guidance and assistance through that process. We cannot guarantee what will happen IC but we can give you some thoughts that are more relevant to whatever situation you are in at the time.

X-D your comment is pretty much on the mark.

For those that are playing magickers in game and feeling uncertain on the current situation please feel free to put in a request detailing your character and what you might what more info about, we are willing to accommodate your questions in this way.

[Jingo]

I have had a problem with the idea in Tuluk because  no matter what reason the player has to do it, it always feels like an ooc construct because the player knew that there was no real way to be found out unless staff stepped in or they made a silly mistake...yet the PC should not know this, The PC, if raised in Tuluk  would BELIEVE with all their heart and mind that the all knowing templarate would find them, there would be no thought of "Oh I can hide it." Other reasons as well, but that is the main one.

This is dumb imho.

I don't have a problem with the challenge of such a role. I have a problem when staff or players suggest the role is far too impossible for any and all, and should not even be attempted.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I have had a problem with the idea in Tuluk because  no matter what reason the player has to do it, it always feels like an ooc construct because the player knew that there was no real way to be found out unless staff stepped in or they made a silly mistake...yet the PC should not know this, The PC, if raised in Tuluk  would BELIEVE with all their heart and mind that the all knowing templarate would find them, there would be no thought of "Oh I can hide it." Other reasons as well, but that is the main one.

This is dumb imho.

I don't have a problem with the challenge of such a role. I have a problem when staff or players suggest the role is far too impossible for any and all, and should not even be attempted.

He's saying the PC should 'know', not that it should be impossible. The Tuluki PC should be thinking it is, because the Tuluki PC has been raised their whole lives thinking that it should be.

[James de Monet]

Especially since, on a long enough time table, the successful infiltration of any given hidden magicker in Tuluk basically goes to 0.

None of them survive (that we know of). And that was BEFORE the change.

Was each new character (not player) coming along and thinking, 'I'm different! I can make it! There aren't any success stories to bolster my bravado, but I'm good enough. I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me.'  Why wouldn't they instead assume they were going to die if they didn't GTFO, a conclusion which the evidence certainly seems to support?

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Certainly I would have that that, as a character, in the Northlands, given the government's stance on magick.

[Adhira]

If our intention was to say it was impossible to play a magicker in Tuluk we would have just banned magick roles in Tuluk. This is not the case.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

But Adhira, a Tuluki PC would think that the Templars would catch them, wouldn't they? They would be in fear of Big Brother.

[Adhira]

My Tuluki magicker sure thought that way. 6 months of sneaking out to the grasslands to practice, with a mindset of total paranoia, before she got caught. Sigh.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Exactly - a much different thing than casting in your apartment, right under the nose of your all knowing templarete ...

[Reiloth]

I'm not exactly grasping what you're saying 7DV. Seems like you're both agreeing?

[Dresan]

I think its a nice addition.

Ironically, one of the few (like two or three) magickers I've managed to actually branch was a hidden magicker in tuluk. I don't think this addition would change anything in that regard especially since I took the sneaking out to the grasslands route too. It does feel just a tad bit twinky though.  

I could be wrong but after reading the post carefully again it does sound like unless you are walking down the street and decide to blast someone with a fireball you'll be fine. Also, if its just an addition to the existing crim-code then its perfect. I mean i still hope a hidden magicker karthi deciding light someone on fire in the middle of the night in a dark alley would be able to get away with it. Then again...fireball in the middle of the night... maybe not.

Again its a nice coded addition, but if you ask me the best protection the city-states got was whiran being bumped to 6 karma. And thank goodness for that since i don't think this change would have helped against them either.

[Harmless]

I think it's really cool that the staff are coding in things to enhance the realism of law enforcement in the cities. I have had some fun times dealing with such scripts before in one of the cities with a past PC. I have no idea what the new coded predictions are, but knowing there's something there should I ever provoke them is cool as hell.

[Norcal]

Given that the gemmed are normally well informed of regulations concerning the use of their powers within Allanak, I find it unrealistic that there are restrictions which could result in severe punishment, that they are unaware  of.  Seems like each temple would know the limits for using their elements within the walls and the consequences for exceeding those limits.