What is the best thing about Armageddon?

[James de Monet]

I was thinking about Kryos's posts about the world and player's motivations, and about why so many seemingly normal, and varied, people are all interested in this arguably uncommon hobby, so I decided to make a poll about it.

What makes Armageddon an awesome game for you? You can pick two options, and change your votes if you want.

I am certain my poll options could use a little balancing, but this seemed a good place to start. I deliberately left "RPI" off the list, as I kind of assume that is a major factor for everyone. To some degree, it is covered by the "Realism" option, however.

Feel free to discuss your choices here, but please refrain from saying 'I didn't pick X cause player complaint, player complaint, staff gripe.'  We can have a productive discussion about what's good and not so good without attacking people! (he said, like a starry-eyed GDB virgin)

[James de Monet]

I broke out exploration from PvE, because I feel like the mappers and the scrab hunters could be two different people.

[Rahnevyn]

I wish you'd edit the poll to let us select as many options as we want to vote for - even narrowing this list down to two options is too hard!

[Kalai]

This was a very hard choice. 

[James de Monet]

I wish you'd edit the poll to let us select as many options as we want to vote for - even narrowing this list down to two options is too hard!

This sounded like a good idea, Rahnevyn, but apparently number of votes per user is the one thing you can't edit once a poll is made. Huh.

[RogueGunslinger]

Scope and realism. You can be whatever you want to be, and the world forces you to be that thing as realistically as you can.


I almost picked permadeath, but I think Realism covers for it well enough.

[Rahnevyn]

If you wanted to make a new poll, James, I can lock this one. Up to you.

[QuillDipper]

Permadeath and Efficacy. You can die, your story -will- end one day, but it has the potential to extend even beyond your last breath. I think that is amazing. So many games, if a character dies, they're just gone. People don't talk about them much, or they respawn so no one has to. IN this, when someone dies, you will -never- interact with that character again, and it is up to you and your own character how they react to this.

[FreeRangeVestric]

Setting, I think? It's a hard question to answer.

[James de Monet]

If you wanted to make a new poll, James, I can lock this one. Up to you.

Thanks, but it's okay. I don't want to force people to revote, and allowing unlimited choices would probably mean people voting for everything they liked about the game. I like all those things. I want to know what's best about the game from players' perspectives, what the biggest draws are. This forces them to do that, even if they don't read the first post.

[manonfire]

Even split between permadeath and PvE for me.

[Barsook]

This was a very hard choice. 

[James de Monet]

Oh, for myself, I said accomplishment and plot. It is my characters' successes that drive me to keep playing, but it is being part of a complicated and interesting story that makes the journey worth it.

Now, I could get those two things in just about any RPG, but the it is the way that they are made so much sweeter by permadeath and how harsh and real the world is that makes Armageddon prime rib in a hamburger world.

[TheWanderer]

An Armageddon without permadeath would lose my interest immediately. Second vote was for plot - almost lost to PvP, though.

[Symphony]

Mudsex. Why is it not on the list? 

[Dresan]

 I enjoy RPing and I am a sucker for a good story.

However, the truth is I like to win. My definition of 'winning' is hard for me to achieve in Armageddon, and and it only often last for a sweet delicious moment. In all the years I've been playing one...only one of my character has won Armageddonmud in my books.  He was on top of the world for only a couple days before his enemies finally managed to brutally assassinate him. Awesome death some might say but I miss him so much.  

I find truly 'winning' this game is a wonderful but brief fleeting experience. I love that, especially with so much loss and agony at ever corner, along with permadeath its always made this game worth playing.

[Fujikoma]

Why is choppin' mothafuckaz up with bone swordz not on the list?

[James de Monet]

Mudsex. Why is it not on the list? 

Heh, I think that response can safely be filed under several options, depending on why you like it.

• The feels - Social
• The fact it is part of the narrative - Realism
• The fact it is possible IG - Scope
• The conquest - Accomplishment
• Using people - PvP
• The way it twists things - Intrigue

Etc, etc.

[Symphony]

Mudsex. Why is it not on the list? 

Heh, I think that response can safely be filed under several options, depending on why you like it.

• The feels - Social
• The fact it is part of the narrative - Realism
• The fact it is possible IG - Scope
• The conquest - Accomplishment
• Using people - PvP
• The way it twists things - Intrigue

Etc, etc.

Jerking your chain, boss. Great poll, by the way.


- Symph

[Rahnevyn]

I finally voted for plots and intrigue. You'll find other games / gaming experiences that can outshine Armageddon in some (not all) other categories on the list, but I defy you to name any multiplayer game with more compelling, intriguing, and immersive storytelling than you can find here.

[Cale_Knight]

It's plot/intrigue, but only because of permadeath.

Permadeath is what makes everything else in Arm relevant. It makes every decision meaningful, and every risk an actual risk.

[James de Monet]

Jerking your chain, boss.

So...PvP, then?  

I knew you were probably kidding, but it illustrated a point!

Why is choppin' mothafuckaz up with bone swordz not on the list?

Probably another joke, but for the same reason I took the last bait, PvP + Setting!

[slvrmoontiger]

Mudsex. Why is it not on the list? 

Heh, I think that response can safely be filed under several options, depending on why you like it.

• The feels - Social
• The fact it is part of the narrative - Realism
• The fact it is possible IG - Scope
• The conquest - Accomplishment
• Using people - PvP
• The way it twists things - Intrigue

Etc, etc.

Too many options for so limited a selection allowed. I vote mudsex for all of the above especially the etc etc.

[Is Friday]

I voted permadeath and "realism", because I believe we have some of the best players in the MUD scene. (And the worst, heh.)

[Desertman]

Voted perma-death.

Everything else on the list loses A LOT of its meaning without it.

[James de Monet]

Voted perma-death.

Everything else on the list loses A LOT of its meaning without it.

I fully agree, and the commanding lead that it has this far makes me wonder if I should have left it off (because would Arm without permadeath still be Arm? Arm without RPI wouldn't, that's why I left if off), but I think there's a distinction to be made there.

I would probably still have played Arm if it wasn't for permadeath. I just wouldn't have played it for as long. And you can get permadeath in other games, like playing hardcore on Diablo. But I don't do that. It doesn't appeal to me, because dying has no bearing on the story. If you die, you just start over from the beginning. If you die in Arm, that's it. Game over, man. Game over!  So for me, it's not the permadeath itself, it's how that feature makes the plot so much more interesting.

[Fujikoma]

I actually started playing Arm because on another MUD one of the members of a group I was running signed in and -RAGED- about the death of his character for a good six hours, without mentioning many IC details. This kind of rage fascinated me, so I asked questions about the game, and after a little while he realized I was actually pretty interested and was like "Shitbag, no! Don't do it! We'll never see you again!", but, the damage was already done. Roll up fresh character, PCs direct character to Byn, BEEP.

[MoosesRock]

I chose accomplishments first.  I like having goals to work towards, but don't really care if they are world changing, so long as they are significant enough to affect the character. Intrigue and scope probably follow accomplishments very closely.

[valeria]

Social and permadeath.  The permadeath keeps the IG clans and groups from becoming as cliquey as easily as can happen in places non permadeath.  And social because I equate it with good RP, which I mostly only get here.  Also the community is great.  And we have a bunch of great roleplayers.

[Refugee]

I wanted to pick about 5 of them, but really, it's the whole package.

[solera]

I was very attracted to what would be called the "art work" in a graphics game ie the room descriptions and feel of the physical world  .

Anything  that gives pain or the possibility of pain seems good ...permadeath, relationships, plot. I'll go for the relationships, which I first discovered in the Byn, and  settings (at a room level)

[senseofeven]

I've always been attracted to how strong my PCs can become or how far I can stretch their combat powers.

I came from very PVP competitive IRE muds and have always been a combatter, defender, raider. Heck even in MMORPG, I've PVPed in warzones :p

In Arm: I didn't need to pay for credits to convert into lessons or to even purchase artifacts for incredulous amount of money for a text game to get an 'edge' on a person/organization/city. Dicerolls have always been exciting. RNG and how good your PC is.

Still! Just one mistake and the world can eat you. That's more exciting than winning duels on them other non-perma death muds and lose experience.

[ShaLeah]

This is flawed.  I voted anyway.

[Zoltan]

Permadeath and realism. Just about everything in this game hinges on permadeath. The "realism" is bound up in the setting, I think. The rules that encourage the players to treat every aspect of the world as a living, breathing thing helps to bolster the RP.

[James de Monet]

This is flawed.  I voted anyway.

Could you be a little more specific?

[Bogre]

Permadeath defines RPI's and Armageddon.

I think my favorite other thing is the scope- you have such a wide and varied world with lots going on. You can stumble onto a hermit who has been playing out of a cave for the past year. There's years of history.

Exploration, PVP/PVE, achievement, harsh setting are my tertiary favorite things.

and of course
MURDER
CORRUPTION
BETRAYAL

[Hicksville Hoochie]

For my first few characters, permadeath was the most annoying thing for me.

But then as I began to actually understand the way things worked, and got more into the rp side of things, it became the main component to everything else. The plots, intrigue, social mingling, etc - it all has a larger impact when you're well aware that you're on borrowed time that can be taken away by anything from an angry templar, to random joe-bob elf wanting to know if he actually -can- make it to the rinth after stabbing you six times in the neck with a poisoned blade. (In his defense, I probably kicked dirt in his face for being a filthy sharp with nicer boots than any sharp should own.)

I'd like to be able to vote for most items on the list, but I had to take permadeath. It's the seasoning on the steak. Acceptable without it, but fantastic with it.

[Desertman]

Without perma-death it is a chat room.

The social bonds mean so much less. The plotting and intrigue all but vanish because the final outcome isn't in fact final and barely even matters anymore.

When every single decision you make has to be weighed against, "Is this too dangerous?", EVERYTHING, every single decision, means something. If those same decisions were weighed against, "How long will it take me to respawn?". The game loses its meaning.

Give me perma-death, or give me....death?

[Clavis]

Without perma-death it is a chat room.

The social bonds mean so much less. The plotting and intrigue all but vanish because the final outcome isn't in fact final and barely even matters anymore.

When every single decision you make has to be weighed against, "Is this too dangerous?", EVERYTHING, every single decision, means something. If those same decisions were weighed against, "How long will it take me to respawn?". The game loses its meaning.

Give me perma-death, or give me....death?

it has a good point. *passes the lotion* it puts the lotion on it's skin.

[Zoan]

I am the best thing about Armageddon.

[KankWhisperer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PQ6335puOc

[MeTekillot]

PVP makes me feel powerful. Permadeath makes me feel like I have a lasting effect on an otherwise inconsequential expression of my POWER

[Harmless]

permadeath is awesome when the death has at least some meaning. Here are some examples of deaths I like:


It's cool when you die because...

... you tried to take on a beast that you had never fought before and it overwhelmed you.
... you thought you could outsmart an NPC that ended up being a lot smarter than you expected.
... you were in a group and you were following orders that ended up getting you killed.
... you were betrayed.
... you were punished.
... you were murdered.
... you died for one of the thousands of other possible reasons, most often of which is "being in the wrong place at the wrong time."

even if it's a beast you have fought before, that death has meaning. Classically? Carru / scrab / beetle. You thought you had become strong enough to take it on, but you were wrong. This has important lessons. Were you evaluating your strength correctly? What things should you have been fighting more of before trying the next big challenge? Are there some things you simply can't ever kill with the race/guild/attribute combination you had? Even if the death initially seems stupid, it will inevitably have more meaning, especially as you move on to your next PC and have new experiences to look forward to.

It's NOT cool when you die because of OOC shit like connection issues, typos, or a misunderstanding or an unforgiving other player who refuses to acknowledge your OOC difficulties, whatever they may be. That shit frustrates me. Also, the policy on ressurections is quite strict when it comes to this, and I feel sometimes that's not cool. I won't shit on this thread with that but I am mentioning it.

So, permadeath is cool 90% of the time, but about 10% of the time it is really frustrating.

..Nevertheless, I voted that permadeath and realism were the two reasons this game were so great. In a typical manner for me, I am most excited about something I have mixed feelings about.

[ShaLeah]

The cock fights on the GDB.

[Harmless]

The cock fights on the GDB.

bonobopenisfencing.gif

[mattrious]

This is a great poll, JDM.

I went with permadeath & murder, corruption, and betrayal.

Though, I wish I could of checked a few other boxes. I really love the whole package and what the game brings, it has been around for so long and is still a very unique gaming experience.

[deathkamon]

Permadeath is one of my choices because firstly, it brings fear into those who are extremely over-powered such as nobles/templars about death not just ICly, but realistically because your great lord of some place could die permanently. Secondly, once your character is dead, instead of being reincarnated and still sticking to whatever attitude your old character had, you can create a whole new character and try something new.

The second choice I made was the accomplishment. It always gives you a good feeling whenever you see your dwarf accomplish his focus and then moving on to something greater and bigger then before, or having your mul finally seeking revenge on whoever killed his/her bond mate. It also gives you a realistic feeling of accomplishment, and it makes you want to go further and further to achieve better things for yourself, or to gain access to even more goals due to what you had done.

[BadSkeelz]

Permadeath, for all the reasons listed plus one:

I have a habit of dropping off the face of the earth and leaving people and gaming communities I'm a part of in a lurch. A large part of the appeal of a permadeath mud was "Well, if I feel like it's time to walk away, I can just get my character killed!"


...yeaaaaah.

[RogueGunslinger]

Haha.

Just don't quit the game when your character eventually DOES die. I've heard of people doing that and it totally blows my mind and irritates the fuck out of me.

[QuillDipper]

I look forward to my character's death. The feeling of making a new one is just so... Invigorating.

[Drayab]

Permadeath hardly sets Arm apart as unique. Every RPI I have ever played had permadeath.

I once logged into another MUD with permadeath and there wasn't anyone else around to play with. I got bored and left.

I voted for relationships and story, because those are what keep me coming back.

[RogueGunslinger]

I look forward to my character's death. The feeling of making a new one is just so... Invigorating.

It really is. I love making new characters.

[valeria]

The funny thing is, I have a love hate relationship with permadeath.  I picked it for its effect on the game, not for its effect on me personally.  It never fails to upset me when my characters die.  The last time one of my characters died, I started pounding on my desk and it freaked Zoltan out.  He was all like, I thought you didn't like that one?  And I was all like, yeah this one was a terrible person but was fun to play.

It never fails.  I make very IC choices, and they die stupid, avoidable deaths that make me angry.  And I come back for more abuse, whether eventually or immediately.  Crazy game.

[Zoan]

This was a really hard poll but of them all, the most correct choices to me were setting and realism - I'm a very big proponent of being aware of, and bringing life to the world, its tone and its tribulations. Often to my own detriment. It's not always a good thing though because I can be a little judgmental as to how others perceive the virtual world (or fail to perceive it), and remark on it.

[Norcal]

I went with realism (I reckon it includes permadeath) and efficacy.  I love seeing people use a mastercraft designed by one of my old, long dead PCs. It provides a sense of ownership of the game and makes me feel as I am a contributor, not just a player.

[long live miley cyrus]

Story, plot, pc did this, feels this way about that, and that sort of thing, with alarming frequency, impacts other people, and has occasionally killed and spared other characters and my own. I'm living proof you don't really have to do jack codedly or have any skills above apprentice to affect other pcs and help them have a good time.

[Zoan]

But seriously, me. I'm the best thing about Armageddon.

[manonfire]

Crushing your enemies, seeing them driven before you, and hearing the lamentations of their women.

[FantasyWriter]

Crushing your enemies, seeing them driven before you, and hearing the lamentations of their women.

MoF wins.

[Refugee]

Crushing your enemies, seeing them driven before you, and hearing the lamentations of their women.

MoF wins.

Oh!  I agree.

[Kol]

Crushing your enemies, seeing them driven before you, and hearing the lamentations of their women.

I fucking love that show. Also, +1.