Tuluki Shrinkinator / Tavern Restructuring Discussion

[manonfire]

Where would you propose putting the salt yards and Merchant's Way apartment building? You'd also lose the positioning of the old Borsail Estate which is kind of significant given its Serious Find Out IC associations. So I'm not terribly sold on cutting the Noble Quarter off from the Templar Quarter by this huge-ass Arena.

I think there's room to work on Merchant's Way east of the Bazaar.

I don't know the answers to those questions. I just wanted to get a conversation going.

[manonfire]

I mean, if there's some seriousface interest in rebuilding Allanak, I'm happy to address the minutia, but you understand this is just a preliminary mockup of the changes I'd like to see, not some AFC'ed construction drawing.

[Malken]

It should get its own thread too

[slvrmoontiger]

I was going to post something, but decided not to post it because it might be considered in-game. Suffice it to say some things I'm happy about. Other things are bearable. Others go completely contrary to what I thought certain things were about. Yet, others are quite troubling, upsetting and frustrating. Its a change that's going to take a while to adjust to. I realize it needed to be done, but I think things got lost for my character in particular that they held to one of which being some comfort. But it is what it is. I know staff worked really hard on it and applaud them for the effort and the work.

[FantasyWriter]

To make the Barrens east of Tuluk proper more dangerous without losing the resources there, turn off the crimcode (assuming it is on) to allow for a little PvP fun.

[Malken]

To make the Barrens east of Tuluk proper more dangerous without losing the resources there, turn off the crimcode (assuming it is on) to allow for a little PvP fun.

Wouldn't make sense since the area is supposedly populated and patrolled by slaves, slave masters and soldiers.

[slvrmoontiger]

To make the Barrens east of Tuluk proper more dangerous without losing the resources there, turn off the crimcode (assuming it is on) to allow for a little PvP fun.

Wouldn't make sense since the area is supposedly populated and patrolled by slaves, slave masters and soldiers.

And Nyr also said its okay to go there to chillax so that wouldn't be helpful to those who are using it to chillax in.

[FantasyWriter]

Can we shrinkray Allanak now?

If this was a serious comment, what would you shrinkray?

Move the jail closer to the criminals.

[manonfire]

Can we shrinkray Allanak now?

If this was a serious comment, what would you shrinkray?

Move the jail closer to the crimbimbals.

ftfy

[Nyr]

I was going to post something, but decided not to post it because it might be considered in-game. Suffice it to say some things I'm happy about. Other things are bearable. Others go completely contrary to what I thought certain things were about. Yet, others are quite troubling, upsetting and frustrating. Its a change that's going to take a while to adjust to. I realize it needed to be done, but I think things got lost for my character in particular that they held to one of which being some comfort. But it is what it is. I know staff worked really hard on it and applaud them for the effort and the work.

Really?

So you were going to post something in a thread for discussing these actual changes, but instead of identifying specific issues or even putting in a request to address issues that are related to your character, you vaguebooked about it? Do you want your feedback to be taken into account and actually responded to, or do you want to complain about something with no accountability or expectation of anyone taking you seriously?  It really seems like the latter; if that is the case, please just preface future posts with that so that staff members interested in legitimate feedback don't spend too much time parsing it.  "I'm happy about some things."  "Other things are bearable."  "Others are very troubling."  "My character is totally lost...but oh, no, it's great."  I think we'd rather have someone say they hate the whole thing (explaining what they hate), love the whole thing (explaining what they love), complain about specific parts or praise specific parts...any of that would be much more preferable than seeing someone vaguely complain and vaguely praise it at the same time without addressing anything.  People have already addressed specific issues here and sometimes they don't get a response directly, but it is at least said, vented, or acknowledged in some regard.  Please take that into account for any future posts you make. 

That goes for anyone.  Vague complaints and vague praise serve no purpose.  If you love what someone is doing, send them a kudos.  If you hate what someone is doing and want them to absolutely stop, put in a complaint.  If it's not to either of those extremes, at least state your case--if it's too IC you have options for stating your case to staff directly.

To make the Barrens east of Tuluk proper more dangerous without losing the resources there, turn off the crimcode (assuming it is on) to allow for a little PvP fun.

Wouldn't make sense since the area is supposedly populated and patrolled by slaves, slave masters and soldiers.

And Nyr also said its okay to go there to chillax so that wouldn't be helpful to those who are using it to chillax in.

One man's chill pad is another man's murdering ground.  We don't care what you do in the Barrens as long as you aren't saying it needs to be a super safe area to get things for very little effort.

[Twilight]

I find the grid that it is on now much more intuitive.  No more remembering to go 2 west, interrupting your north or south commands here, 1 east there, etc.

I like that certain things are within 3 room range from where you would logically travel.

And as far as I know, the bugs I submitted were all fixed really fast, which is great.

I thought I would like it.  I like it more than I thought I would.

[Twilight]

Artisans Area/dorm delinked, by the way (thanks for the reminder note ). 

For anyone that's unaware, the Blue Vestric name hearkens back to a tavern that used to be around in Old Tuluk.  The bartender should be someone everyone knows, though.

Was that the one right inside the gates?  Kind of with the Kohmar Estate behind it?

[Zoan]

Can we shrinkray Allanak now?

If this was a serious comment, what would you shrinkray?

Move the jail closer to the criminals.

Damn it, you beat me to it.

[Zoan]

Can we shrinkray Allanak now?

If this was a serious comment, what would you shrinkray?

Do we REALLY need a 40-room* walk from the bazaar to the eastern gate?

* I may be exaggerating but come on.

[Malken]

Can we shrinkray Allanak now?

If this was a serious comment, what would you shrinkray?

Do we REALLY need a 40-room* walk from the bazaar to the eastern gate?

* I may be exaggerating but come on.

That's the only way to get you to walk during the day, fatty.

[Zoan]

Pressing the e key that many times burns more carbs than walking around the block once a day, that's how 'too much' the distance is.

[HavokBlue]

I wish they'd move the jail closer to the criminals.




I actually don't mind Allanak's layout, it has a lot of nooks and hiding spots that I think add a lot, but if there's anywhere with superfluous rooms, it's definitely the Road of Commerce and Merchant's Way.

[Molten Heart]

Is Brisby the bard from the Firestorm gone too or has he relocated?

[Cutthroat]

I think the changes are pretty intuitive. Obviously they'll take some getting used to, but it wasn't the oh-noes-everybody-panic change that a chunk of posters here seemed to expect before even giving it a chance. It's mainly changes that let you move 1-5 rooms instead of 10-20 to get to the same places.

It's more condensed now, similar in "design philosophy" (lacking a better way to describe it) as Allanak's west half.

[Nyr]

Artisans Area/dorm delinked, by the way (thanks for the reminder note ). 

For anyone that's unaware, the Blue Vestric name hearkens back to a tavern that used to be around in Old Tuluk.  The bartender should be someone everyone knows, though.

Was that the one right inside the gates?  Kind of with the Kohmar Estate behind it?

Frankly...that's before my time, I could not tell you with certainty!

Is Brisby the bard from the Firestorm gone too or has he relocated?

Pretty much anyone there will be relocated.  I just ran out of time yesterday.

[Nyr]

Updates now that things are less hectic:

Directions commands now account for the new location of the dung scraper, the Blue Vestric, and the RSC stables.
This is the current map for Tuluk (I had a couple of road names wrong in the overhead view).  The Academy is in a different spot as well.

The other tavern changes have also been implemented.  To specify:

• Sanctuary -- no Artisans Area anymore, no weird fat elf hanging out in a posh tavern anymore, no common sleeping dorms, main tavern area is quit-safe (if you are a sponsored role, please 'relieve' your guard(s) before you quit out here!)
• Tooth -- brawl-safe in the main rooms.
• Vestric -- apparently I'd already moved Brisby, but I moved other NPCs as well, and set scripting for any soldiers/common NPCs that would end their workday at the Firestorm to now do that at the Vestric.  Cooking area implemented, quit-safe "dorms" implemented (accessible from balcony room), new PCs start in the balcony room even if they go through the starter stuff for Tuluk.

For the sake of those that like grids, we could swap the eastern "dining area thingy" in the Sanctuary to become a western one, now that the Artisans Area is gone...

[Desertman]

I just wanted to say I really like the new stable location in Tuluk as it relates to everything else. Thanks guys.

[Blur]

First off, good work on the changes they are a good step forward. I really look forward to seeing them at some point.

This is off-topic and almost old now in this thread but I just got to say:

As someone who has played in tuluk for a long time I totally agree with desertman. The type of roles you can play in tuluk feel really limited. If you aren't playing someone who is patriotic and wants to be a contributing member of society with a happy smile well then...you are either going to be bored to death or disappeared. Which is sad because when I read the docs once upon a time, I got the impression that the people of tuluk were like this in public, but in private they knew what was going on,they took steps and had methods to protect themselves from being discovered. Tulukis in private, behind closed door should able to talk, maybe even be able to make plans and to take more action.  This has not the case ICly unfortunately, regardless of what spies accomplished in the hrpt. Most of the conflict the city sees comes from the outside, the best conflict being when allanak decides to pay attention to tuluk. The legion, well my feeling on the legion are pretty much detailed on its the clan forums assuming those posts are still there though the leader at the times i've joined (he knows who he is) made it memorable. Personally for me though, it is unbearable to be in a tuluki clan that does not allow you to leave the city, at least in the scrubs there is a chance something interesting might happen. To the handful of people that have been able to play tuluki city bound roles for years and years, just wait til you get a chance to play again in allanak. I'm kidding, I respect the people who have the serious amount of patience needed to play those roles, since its not something I can do, luckily thanks to allanak, its not something I have to do.


Anyways sorry for the derail, most of what I said has been said before already.  I'm curious to see how this all turns out in the end. The changes so far seem awesome for what its worth.

[Nyr]

First off, good work on the changes they are a good step forward. I really look forward to seeing them at some point.

Glad you like them! 

As someone who has played in tuluk for a long time I totally agree with desertman. The type of roles you can play in tuluk feel really limited. If you aren't playing someone who is patriotic and wants to be a contributing member of society with a happy smile well then...you are either going to be bored to death or disappeared.

We're sorry you feel that way.  Tuluk has changed a lot in the past several months and one of the things touted is exactly what you say would result in people being bored to death or disappeared.

Which is sad because when I read the docs once upon a time, I got the impression that the people of tuluk were like this in public, but in private they knew what was going on,they took steps and had methods to protect themselves from being discovered. In private behind closed door were able to talk, maybe even take more action.  This has not the case ICly unfortunately, regardless of what spies accomplished in the hrpt. Most of the conflict the city sees comes from the outside, the best conflict being when allanak decides to pay attention to tuluk.

Huh.  That reminds me, we probably should get that history page updated with the most recent RPT in Tuluk and what it affected.  Regardless of who actually chose to get involved with any of the internal conflicts in Tuluk, the opportunity was there the entire time for players to take action.  When major things happen around your character, it is an opportunity for that to affect your character in a deep and profound way.  Even if you aren't around for the actual event in question (or even if you are around but feel like it's just happening around you and you can't do anything to stop it/help it/whatever), the fact that x happened can shape your character's goals in the future.

The legion, well my feeling on the legion are pretty much detailed on its the clan forums assuming those posts are still there. Personally for me though, it is unbearable to be in a tuluki clan that does not allow you to leave the city, at least in the scrubs there is a chance something interesting might happen.

Your posts are still there.  Do you remember the posts that were made in response to them?  Posts that would point out that the schedule (such that it is) is OOCly lenient, allowing for soldier PCs to assign themselves to tavern watch or city patrols if there is no other PC around to interact with during their schedule?  Posts that would point out that privates and above actually get time off that they can request from their PC bosses (or virtually, if no boss is around) in which they can do exactly what you are saying is unbearable?  All of that was before we even mentioned things like new documentation and complete restructuring of the clan.

I'd also recommend reviewing these changes and also noting that Legion soldiers now get paid in a manner comparable to other soldiers rather than the pittance they were paid before.  Regardless of what issues you had or thought you had with the Legion, it is structured quite a bit differently now.

[BadSkeelz]

God forbid an RPT happens in Tuluk that doesn't get on the history page 

The city page for Tuluk itself could maybe use some updating, too. There's nothing in it that's really inspiring when it comes to getting the flavor of the city or the roles you could play there.

As someone who has played in tuluk for a long time I totally agree with desertman. The type of roles you can play in tuluk feel really limited. If you aren't playing someone who is patriotic and wants to be a contributing member of society with a happy smile well then...you are either going to be bored to death or disappeared.

We're sorry you feel that way.  Tuluk has changed a lot in the past several months and one of the things touted is exactly what you say would result in people being bored to death or disappeared.

I'm a little confused. Nyr, are you saying that non-patriotic and non-contributing PCs are even more unwelcome in Tuluk, now? Or is it the opposite, Staff trying to inject some variability in to the character populace? I'm posting as someone who wants to play in Tuluk (if for no other reason right now than an obligation to give the other half of the Known its due) but am having trouble discerning from the publicly available documents just what other kinds of characters are acceptable, other than bards and soldiers.