Sleight of Hand / Stealth update

[Tiernan]

This feature adds the commands "unlatch" and "latch".  It also makes unlatch/latch (open/close), palm/slip (get/put) and steal/plant all behave the same way through command emote parsing.

Key aspects of this feature:

• 'latch' will perform a Sleight of Hand skillcheck and perform a quiet 'close' if successful.  Targets include objects on self, in room, doors, and containers on others.
• 'unlatch' will perform a Sleight of Hand skillcheck and perform a quiet 'open' if successful.  Targets include objects on self, in room, doors, and containers on others.
• latch & unlatch use command emote parsing, just like close & open.
  
• 'plant' now uses command emote parsing.
• 'plant' updated to include targeting victim's containers, mirroring how steal does. (Darn near cut & paste implementation).
• 'steal'' now uses command emote parsing.
• Delays are now applied to 'slip', 'palm', 'unlatch', and 'latch'

Helpfiles have been updated and published.

[manonfire]

Sweet.

[RogueGunslinger]

OH shit!


Time for the yearly Pickpocket app!

Seriously though this makes people with packs not walking fort-knox's now. Which is nice.

Also command emotes for plant and steal is sick, but the idea of planting things IN peoples packs now is awesome.

[Delirium]

Oh shit son.

[Is Friday]

NEATO.

[FreeRangeVestric]

Awesome. 

[Barsook]

Thank you!

[Miggy]

Oh man! Now I wanna be a roguish type again.

[JustAnotherGuy]

Very happy to hear this!  Influx of sneaky types coming soon.

[MeTekillot]

Wow thanks a lot now the paper-thin flap of leather on my backpack no longer serves as an impenetrable barrier against pickpockets

wait holy shit it works on doors too?

[BadSkeelz]

NOTHING IS SAFE ANYMORE

*begins continues PKing elfs on sight*

[Kismetic]

Ahhh, stealth overload.  Time to break out the "Rogues Do It From Behind" t-shirt.   

[Thunkkin]

Ermagerd.

[Malken]

Nice.

[Malifaxis]

[mattrious]

Shit just got real.

[FreeRangeVestric]

NOTHING IS SAFE ANYMORE

*begins continues PKing elfs on sight*

*>steal sword Badskeelz*

[Quell]

So now we can check to see if people are wearing anything underneath those closed cloaks?

Time to go flasher hunting.

[Delusion]

I saw the opening someone else's pack thing get abused so, so hard on another RPI that I'm kind of leery of this one. Then again, I habitually keep money in my characters' inventories and leave packs open, and nobody bothers stealing from them.

[BleakOne]

Will there be any defence against this from people who don't have the ability to see hidden people? Also, I hope it triggers crimcode.

I'm a bit leery of this change, and I hope that even a maxed Sleight of Hand won't allow it to succeed all the time. I don't want to see the entire bar have their packs opened, their cloaks opened and all their things taken without anyone noticing.

Nonetheless, we'll see how it goes.

[BadSkeelz]

People will probably just stop rolling guilds and subguilds without scan.

[Delirium]

I think it's fantastic that mundane skills are getting some love.

[BleakOne]

Pickpockets will probably be even more kill-on-sight than they were before. 

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'm fond of the change, because it brings realism. As long as the severity of a thief being more intrusive has been taken into account in the code, I'm all for it.

[Reiloth]

Despite fears of abuse, I think this a good change.

Any 'Sneaky Type' character has to be about as intelligent as Hannibal Lecter when it comes to robbing people. The knowledge that you can/will break into homes or lift items from someone's person quickly gets around town, and if you are made, you are made. It is impossible to come back from that.

So I think the dumb criminals will be caught and black-listed, while you'll likely never know the good ones were even there. I would also hope that people with this sort of skill would be careful not to abuse it, lest they draw the ire of the powers that be.

And, as always, if you think someone is abusing code, a player complaint goes a long way. I've at least had mine 'noted' if not directly responded to as being pursued. I do not encourage people to play RP police when it comes to player complaints -- that is very subjective. But when it comes to someone walking into a bar and lifting a bunch of people's backpacks or spam peeking or stealing...It's worth letting Staff know, I think.

[BleakOne]

I do like the ability to open doors silently. Breaks the whole 'one room apartments are safer' thing.

[Cutthroat]

I assume that latch/unlatch will be appropriately difficult depending on the object and skill of the thief, like every other skill IG, so I don't think abuse is going to be an issue nor is it something to be afraid of. This change actually makes pickpocketing a viable choice of crime now, instead of relying (mostly) on the players to be "charitable" and leave valuables in open pockets and their inventory. By extension, it makes the pickpocket guild more appealing to those that haven't tried it, or tried it but were disappointed with it. It actually puts worn containers at a more appropriate level of risk and incidentally makes finding a safe storage area for your PC's stuff more important. So I think this is a nice change that will have an interesting, if maybe slight ripple effect.

[The Lonely Hunter]

Awesome additions to make those roguish types more viable. Kudos!

[Patuk]

Now this, this I like.

[valeria]

I think it's fantastic that mundane skills are getting some love.

Me too!  I'm very excited for this.  Especially because I love command emotes.  Command emote all the things.

[HavokBlue]

As a frequent sneaky type player, I like this change, but holy shit no keyring will ever be safe again.

[boog]

You guys act like people get robbed all the time BEFORE they're dead!

I haven't been mugged, pickpocketed, or burgled in years.

Bring it, bitches!

[Evilone]

We need a like button... I like this.

[whitt]

if you are made, you are made. It is impossible to come back from that.

Sure you can.  Store and roll up another just like it.

Should be a coded skill that allows non-stealth PCs to hack the sticky fingers off the thieves and explain to the guards they they had it coming without being crim-coded too. 

[X-D]

Hey now, that is a question.

How does the crime code work on sleight being used on others packs/containers?

[slvrmoontiger]

I was wondering how exactly this might work on doors.... Normal way is that you see so and so open such and such door... If you're sitting in a room that has a door and someone opens it I don't care how quietly they do it you could be staring at the door and you would see it open even if you don't HEAR it open. How exactly does this work for people in rooms? Please don't say find out IG.

[Quell]

I was wondering how exactly this might work on doors.... Normal way is that you see so and so open such and such door... If you're sitting in a room that has a door and someone opens it I don't care how quietly they do it you could be staring at the door and you would see it open even if you don't HEAR it open. How exactly does this work for people in rooms? Please don't say find out IG.

Be nice if this were handled by "watch north." Then there'd be an actual command that people would have to use rather than forcing people to infer that they were watching some door or other. But I've never really paid attention to what the watch skill actually shows you.

[slvrmoontiger]

I was wondering how exactly this might work on doors.... Normal way is that you see so and so open such and such door... If you're sitting in a room that has a door and someone opens it I don't care how quietly they do it you could be staring at the door and you would see it open even if you don't HEAR it open. How exactly does this work for people in rooms? Please don't say find out IG.

Be nice if this were handled by "watch north." Then there'd be an actual command that people would have to use rather than forcing people to infer that they were watching some door or other. But I've never really paid attention to what the watch skill actually shows you.

General watch skill should take care of it. I mean if your sitting in a room near a door there are many chances that your going to look over at the door at some point in time. It's inevitable... In RL if I'm in a strange place or a place I don't feel comfortable in I naturally sit facing the door. Sure call me paranoid, just what I do. I'm just asking how this will be handled... If its not handled that you see the door opening then there should be a chance when you open a door even without the skill that people in the room won't see the door being opened, much less who is opening the door. Maybe I'm nitpicking, but I'm trying to be realistic here.

[X-D]

I am hoping that doors is handled so that, successful unlatch, you still see the door open, but it does not break hide, or if not hidden you do not see who opened it.

IE

Hidden.
The door opens.

Not hidden.
Someone opens the door.

Given the room size stated in pretty much every apartment, the idea that a panel of wood/bone whatever could be swung open without notice is silly.

Will they be able to use unlatch on other peoples cloaks? If so, I see myself filing many complaints.


OH, and I like this addition, I just have concerns.

In RL if I'm in a strange place or a place I don't feel comfortable in I naturally sit facing the door.

Same here.

Also, in my house, all furniture is arranged so I can see the door at all times...most people end up doing this without thinking simply because you do not want to block a door.

[MeTekillot]

I figure unlatched doors are the equivalent of cracking the door just slightly to slip inside.

[X-D]

That would be fine, but unless they changed the code, doors only have 2 states, open or closed. So, even if you take it as opened a crack, does not matter, you can still walk in. As to the "slip inside" What, are you a mouse?  Wearing normal gear and pack, you still have to open it all the way...or at least a foot or more, this is not some kind of peeking crack here.

Sitting in my normal apartment in a 8 cord by 8 cord room...call it 10X10' The door opens and a leather clad figure wearing a hooded cloak and a pack manages to open the door AND "slip" through it without notice....RIIIIGHT.

[Malken]

Now not only will the mudsexers be doing their dirty deeds with all their armor still on BUT they'll be standing as well just so they can watch the door!

And guys, really, how is being able to open a door and sneak in quietly unseen any different than being able to hide in one room apartments (or booths) unseen while there's people in it?

[MeTekillot]

the only people allowed to twink are X-D's characters, by golly

[Delirium]

I like that this means you could actually slip through a curtain... instead of a closed curtain suddenly being instamagic ultraforce barrier against sneakies.

[BadSkeelz]

Now not only will the mudsexers be doing their dirty deeds with all their armor still on BUT they'll be standing as well just so they can watch the door!

Fortunately you can still watch (at a disadvantage) while sitting down, now.

I foresee a lot more scanning being done.

[MeTekillot]

More scanning? Literally everyone with scan is scanning at all times, everywhere. Who are you kidding?

[X-D]

Keep in mind, to a stealthy PC, even the door being seen open 100% of the time, BUT the opening of the door not breaking hide is still JUST as useful.

So you saw a door open...Alright now you know...well, a door opened...Did the person opening it enter? Did he leave? Is he standing in the hall waiting for you to come check?
Even if you do run out or something, or call the militia whatever, what are you going to report...you don't even have the type of cloak/hood mask.

As to the twink jab, I play stealthy types with the required skills rather often...as I said, I like this addition, I have wished for such and idea'd it many times...but that does not stop me from thinking that a big ass panel covering a big ass hole in the wall in a tiny room moving in the least bit would not be noticed.

Remember, almost all rooms with doors have doors large enough for a HG to enter...so, they need be at least 8 feet tall and 4-5 feet wide.

[Malken]

Man, pickpockets have suddenly became the #1 trolololol class in the game.

If we could just have a playable elf clan in the rinth now I don't think I'd play anything but elf pickpockets 

[titansfan]

You guys act like people get robbed all the time BEFORE they're dead!

I haven't been mugged, pickpocketed, or burgled in years.

Bring it, bitches!

You shall be stripped naked and planted with mass amounts of spice within the week.

All this without your knowledge.

[Wish]

No but seriously:

I think it's fantastic that mundane skills are getting some love.

[Malken]

It's official, Allanak is now Barcelona!

Pickpockets and loose women everywhere!

[Dances_with_toks]

Untrue, there are no Gypsies.

[Desertman]

More scanning? Literally everyone with scan is scanning at all times, everywhere. Who are you kidding?

They live in a world where bodies are piled in the streets and are being eaten by the other starving masses.

They live in a world where getting killed just stepping out of your front door is an extremely good possibility, and for no good reason other than someone wants the boots you are wearing.

Yes, they are highly alert almost all of the time, because they live in a world where it makes perfect sense for them to be highly alert almost all of the time if they want to survive.

Anyone with half a brain would be on guard almost every waking hour if they lived in Zalanthas.

[Desertman]

I think we should look at having Allanak's gate guards updated to NOT check your pack for spice and kill you on sight instantly with the force of five half-giants going forward.

Pickpockets just became the most dangerous assassins-by-crim-code in Allanak in the game.

I already check my inventory every time I go through the gates just in case.

Now I have to check every single pack/container I am wearing every single time I go through the gates.

I like this change as far as pickpockets being able to steal more readily.

I hate this change due to the fact the crim-code can be abused to instant death anyone going forward.

(I like the idea of PC soldiers giving more shakedowns to catch spice smugglers anyways.)

[Malken]

And then you better quickly move out or in of the gates because the pickpocket could be slipping spice into your stuff while you're checking your other stuff!

[Delirium]

nosave arrest

[Desertman]

nosave arrest

This rarely ever works in this instance. You still get instant-killed by the gate guards.

I would say find out IC, but the only way to find out is no way to find out.

Staff probably needs to look at that issue as well while we are at it.

[manonfire]

macro 'paranoia'

open satchel

l in satchel

close satchel

open cloak

l in cloak

close cloak

l in belt

l in boots

l in sheath

l in bag

l in pouch

inv

emote pats himself down.

[Desertman]

macro 'paranoia'

open satchel

l in satchel

close satchel

open cloak

l in cloak

close cloak

l in belt

l in boots

l in sheath

l in bag

l in pouch

inv

emote pats himself down.

Good idea.

[Delirium]

nosave arrest

This rarely ever works in this instance. You still get instant-killed by the gate guards.

I would say find out IC, but the only way to find out is no way to find out.

Staff probably needs to look at that issue as well while we are at it.

Huh, then yeah, I'd agree with you wholeheartedly if that's the case. I've only been 'gate ganked' once due to absentmindedness, and I didn't have nosave arrest set (in fact I think this was before nosave arrest).

[Desertman]

We might even change the gate code for spice smuggling from "instant death in the glorious name of all that is good and holy" to, "The gate guards pat you down and confiscate your contraband before allowing you to pass."

That almost seems "more" Zalanthan. The gate guards would probably make a fair amount of coins off of "confiscating" contraband, or even accepting bribes to let it pass.

In general I still prefer to leave it to the PC soldiers and Templars to catch spice smugglers. It seems so much more rewarding than having an insta-gank code in place.

[RogueGunslinger]

We might even change the gate code for spice smuggling from "instant death in the glorious name of all that is good and holy" to, "The gate guards pat you down and confiscate your contraband before allowing you to pass."

That almost seems "more" Zalanthan. The gate guards would probably make a fair amount of coins off of "confiscating" contraband, or even accepting bribes to let it pass.

In general I still prefer to leave it to the PC soldiers and Templars to catch spice smugglers. It seems so much more rewarding than having an insta-gank code in place.

YES please. Have the gate-guards take the spice and then report your sdesc to a PC templar. God that would be a million times better.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

That would be just superb. What a great change that would be.

[Zoan]

"Well lookie here, spice. You know that's illegal right? heh heh heh."

[Tiernan]

Omitted in my initial post and conveniently left disabled in the first push yesterday... mea culpa.

Delays are now applied to 'slip', 'palm', 'unlatch', and 'latch'.

As with most new features, I try to balance out positives with negatives so that players need to make choices.   Here's one in the interest of time vs. stealth. 

I hope that this will dissuade those folks who are aliasing their 'get', 'put', 'open', and 'close' commands to their stealthy equivalents from doing so.  I find this practice wrong for many reasons, but perhaps coded delays will make those folks think twice about what it really means is happening IC.

[Desertman]

That would be just superb. What a great change that would be.

It's likely one of those things that won't get changed until we have a few long-lived PC's gate-guard-insta-ganked by random pickpockets doing it for the lulz.

It will happen, it is just a matter of it is sooner or later.

Pickpocket, the new no-karma revenge pc. 

[Malken]

I actually have a feeling that this code change will eventually be removed because of too many pickpockets doing all sort of naughty stuff for the lulz.

I had so many great ideas myself as how to use it for the lulz but unfortunately I'm not enough into Arm lately to pull it off.

[Harmless]

I am very sad that I do not have my pickpocket PC anymore to use these. But they look like great changes, and I look forward to the next time I try a pickpocket to give em a whirl.

[Malken]

My pickpocket was definitely one of the most fun characters I've ever played!

But like I said, playing an elf anything in Allanak right now is too difficult/almost pointless without any coded tribes to belong to.

[CodeMaster]

I think this is a great change, and widens the scope of roleplay for pickpockets considerably, including by making them more employable by their neighboring guilds!

For those of you worried about your inventories being flushed, there are still simple ways to completely shut down a pickpocket that are just a bit more complicated than 'close pack.'  If you don't know what they are, you'll start seeing them in game real soon, I'd expect.

[RogueGunslinger]

I think this is a great change, and widens the scope of roleplay for pickpockets considerably, including by making them more employable by their neighboring guilds!

For those of you worried about your inventories being flushed, there are still simple ways to completely shut down a pickpocket that are just a bit more complicated than 'close pack.'  If you don't know what they are, you'll start seeing them in game real soon, I'd expect.

Never sit still long enough to allow something to target you!

[BleakOne]

Also.

Kill Elf. 

[Malken]

Also.

Kill Elf. 

Make sure that you kill that one elf PC that is foolish enough to be sitting at the Gaj because you know he's the source of all your past thefts, curses and future curses, thefts and probably murder as well!

[Riev]

.... They finally implement something that turns a class nearly nobody plays, into a class people might actually be able to be SUCCESSFUL with, and suddenly its floods of "people will abuse" and "this is so twinky".

These are things a Pickpocket should have been able to do since day one, and the staff finally had the time and the critical thinking to implement it in a way that might not be too abuseable. Considering the plethora of Pickpockets I played in the past, who were able to do NOTHING, because everyone legit command-stacks "open belt;get coins belt;buy #05;put coins belt;close belt". And if you say you don't, you're full of shit. Even if you are a fast typer, its equivalent.

Now, Pickpockets can get into your backpack, or if they see you keep coins in your belt, have a chance of skimming a few off the top after you buy that drink. This is infinitely better than my demand, years ago, that I literally "steal the boots off a walking roundear".

[icewindsong]

Its two months later now.  Did that flood of pickpockets happen?

I'm curious since I was thinking of trying it, before I read anything in the forums about updated skills.  I'm new and don't have many options for a character main class.  I wasn't really looking for a fighting class, and the only other non-criminal non-fight class open to me is merchant, which sounded complicated.  My sister who used to play here told me she never had a successful pickpocketing with her elf burglar, but she thought it would be better for me as the actual pickpocket class.  If there's been a rash of pickpockets it might not be a good time to try.  Any suggestions?

[Bushranger]

I have not seen a rash of anything recently (though if I did I'm sure I'd visit a physician. Bazinga!)

I would welcome your elf pickpocket to the game Icewindsong and I think now is the perfect time to try. Pickpockets can indeed become much more successful at picking pockets than a burglar.

As for classes you have all the options for a main class that is not involved in dirty, disgusting magicks or mind tricks. You don't need to pay any attention to if the class is a fighting class or not really as there is nothing that says your warrior needs to fight anything, nor does your burglar need to break into peoples houses, nor does your assassin need to literally stab people in the back (figuratively stabbing them in the back is much sexier!). Indeed most aides, dung sweepers, cotton pickers, obsidian miners or drunken beggars are probably a 'fighting class' but don't do any fighting!

P.S. Elven anything can be suspicious but also extremely cool.

[RogueGunslinger]

Nope, pickpockets are still one of the rarer guilds if anything.

[Barsook]

Also, merchant guild can be fun if you have a idea that allows your PC to be social/political where you don't have to always craft (subguild choice) but you can spend most of your time online (if during peak) sitting in taverns where you could be lucky and get a job as an aide for someone (nobles or Great Merchant Houses) or work for another commoner.

Oh, a merchant without a crafter subguild maybe hard to play since you not selling your own hand-made items.

[icewindsong]

I thought merchant was the crafting main-guild, so you'd craft or not with it.  Why would you take a crafting subguild then?  Are there crafts a merchant doesn't get?

[manipura]

Oh, a merchant without a crafter subguild maybe hard to play since you not selling your own hand-made items.

I'm confused about what you are meaning here too, Sook. 
Oh, are we still calling you Sook?

[Harmless]

I think what Barsook is referring to is that merchants start out with a small number of craft skills, and need to master the ones they start with in order to "branch out" to new crafting skills that make more money.

Merchants begin the game with some skills that are useful but don't make much money. A great example is tanning. However, if a merchant masters tanning, they then acquire new crafting skills, such as leatherworking.

For merchants, almost every craft skill can be "branched" this way, by mastering the skills they have, but it can take months to do, and it will cost a lot to get the materials to practice on.

Therefore a merchant with a crafting subguild is much more likely to be able to make money by crafting things right from the start.

[RogueGunslinger]

I thought she was talking about playing a merchant with a different guild, like assassin. Which is certainly doable.

[Barsook]

Oh, a merchant without a crafter subguild maybe hard to play since you not selling your own hand-made items.

I'm confused about what you are meaning here too, Sook. 
Oh, are we still calling you Sook?

Sure, I don't mind it.

And Harmless has it correct, sorry for the confusion.  I was think of how I did my merchant who was subguid bard and she just helped crafters sell their stuff outside the GMH.

[Riev]

Regardless, I almost always keep coin in my inventory that is under a small (people always carry loose change, right?) just to tempt pickpockets. I also tend to leave smaller items like facewraps, rings, things I access a lot. Havn't been stolen from specifically yet.

At least. THAT I KNOW OF! Dun dun dunnnnnnn.

Try a pickpocket. They're my favorite class, combat capable but ABSOLUTELY not necessary. There's a lot you can do with their skillset, but then, theres a lot you can do with any skillset so long as you make the right connections. Roll it up, thief some stuff. Be the elf we all expect you to be, and then sneer at us when you walk through the room.

[icewindsong]

I want to try it sometime.  But not as my first.  Probably a ranger 2nd, and after that I'll leap into the shadows and see how big a criminal faceplant I can make.

[Patuk]

Prioritise agility.