Half-giants or Lesser Giants

[Fragmented]

Our documentation lists half-giants as being formed through magick-based crossbreeding between True Giants and humans, the former of course being so large their silhouette can be seen for miles.
These creatures are now accepted, more or less, throughout the world - though there are some clans/groups/peoples that dislike them or won't use them, they're probably the least downtrodden
of all nonhuman races. Even Tuluk, the game-wide magick-phobes use these magickally created creatures to supplement their armed forces.  (By downtrodden, I don't mean used as slaves.. I'm sure
the vast majority ARE slaves, but instead I mean.. disliked simply for being different)

So why call them half-giants anymore? Would your average, uneducated person even know where they came from, or just assume a halfgiant was produced by two other halfgiants mating - which is true.

I propose, and obviously this would be a low priority, that we move away from the term half-giant, since it implies mixed blood just like half-elf, and there is no mixed blood. Instead, I'd like to see the common,
ignorant populace referring to them simply as 'giants', with the more educated (and perhaps even those who might actually SEE a true giant) calling them 'lesser giants' or something to that effect.

I'm sure it'd be a bit of a project to go into the game and turn all references to half-giant into 'giant' which is why I imagine it'd be low priority, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. Thoughts?

[Refugee]

I see your point, but it doesn't bother me the way it is.  I hear people call them giants all the time anyway, that doesn't bother me either.  If it was changed I'd not mind at all, but it seems a lot of work for not much gain.

I tend to have my less-knowledgeable PCs just think they're called that because they're half the size of a giant (which may or may not be true, and if they think of that at all, which is a pretty rare thing).  Dwarves are short people, half-giants are big people.  That's pretty much all most of us need to know.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I call them giants - half-giants is just a cumbersome word. What I'd really like to see is the word half-giant in short descriptions be changed to giant. The word giant in NPC sdescs for true giants should be just that - true giant. By way of example -

(PC)The wild-maned, brawny half-giant would become the wild-maned, brawny giant.
(NPC)A towering, grey-skinned giant would become a towering, grey-skinned true giant.

[Saellyn]

But half-giants aren't giants. True giants are giants. Half-giants are half-giant, half-human... or something.

Someday I will play a half-giant. Someday. For now, the code is fine the way it is. Half-giants can be called giants because most commoners probably don't have the distinction between the real deal and the half-bred deal that we have today (that probably breeds with mommy and daddy half-giants).

[Narf]

But half-giants aren't giants. True giants are giants. Half-giants are half-giant, half-human... or something.

The point of the post is that average people wouldn't know that.

I don't know if that's true or not, but that's the claim.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'm sure most people know the legend of what a half giant is. Thing is, though, half-giants are giants to everybody else. So seeing them as a giant shouldn't be too jarring at all, and it would allow for more options when choosing a sdesc.

[Fragmented]

As mentioned by 7DV, this is actually what prompted me to start considering this. The actual descriptor 'half-giant' is 28% of the allowable characters in a short description, which limits stuff quite a bit. More than one would think.

As for being knowing the legend.. would they really? If they did, why are halfgiants tolerated at all in Tuluk? People's phobia of magick there and utter hatred of -anything- having -anything- to do with magick makes me think if your
average Tuluki had a clue as to this legend, they'd hunt every hg down like Frankenstein's monster.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I doubt it. Gian ... err ... half-giants are creatures who may have come into being because of magick, but they are just a natural race now. Magick has nothing to do with their existence today, and the legend is so far gone as to maybe be nothing but a story. But the story has to exist, or they wouldn't be called half-giants, which means that they are half of something, and half something else.

[FantasyWriter]

But half-giants aren't giants. True giants are giants. Half-giants are half-giant, half-human... or something.

The -first- true giants were half-human half true-giant.  Half-giants have existed for thousands of years as its own race (unlike half-elves which are still created by the joining of two different races).  Also, half-giants are a daily sight, a regular and real occurence.  ICly, silt giants are the stuff of legends, nightmares, and stories to make kids behave.  There are probably no PCs left who were alive when they took Red Storm Village East.  Only people crazy enough to go near or on the sea have ever even seen their legendary shadows, and these folk are few and far in between, so I think "giant" should be acceptable for half giant descriptions, and I also agree with 7 that silt giant NPCs should say True giant or Silt Giant to balance this out.


Edit to add: I still believe "half-giants" should remain the technical title for one of their race, though.

[Zoan]

Today Allanak realized the humiliation of living in a cage, before the tyranny of the Giants.

[X-D]

I have always thought they should be called giants. People tend to shorten things over time and they have been around long enough to just be called giants...besides, the other giants have something else in sdesc that identifies them easy enough.

Also, as others have said...half-giants are the only kind most anybody will ever see. I really doubt they would be all that worried about keeping things proper just in case they meet a real giant.

[slvrmoontiger]

that we move away from the term half-giant, since it implies mixed blood just like half-elf, and there is no mixed blood.

Okay, I've clipped down to the heart of the problem with this. A while back (I'm not sure how long ago) there was a post trying to state how far half-elves are considered half-elves. The fact of the matter is that if all half-giants descend from an original crossbreeding between humans and giants they are still of mixed blood. They still have both human and giant blood in them. That was the whole point of the half-elf thread I found about a year ago to help me more figure things out. I'm not sure how staff feel about the whole thing of how many generations removed person of elven/human ancestry would have to be to consider them something different... What would they be considered. Say Amos' great great great great grandmother was a half-elf (born of one elf parent and one human parent). Where would he be through several generations of back and forth mating with possible elves or humans or other half-elves? Since half giants probable only mate with other half-giants you are always instilling both human and giant blood into the mix. That still makes them of mixed blood.

[X-D]

Maybe, but then nobody in game calls amos the half-elf a half elf, in fact, you can use Breed in your sdesc if playing a half elf. Something a half-giant can't do. In time everything gets shortened.

[catchall]

But half-giants aren't giants. True giants are giants. Half-giants are half-giant, half-human... or something.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

No reason there can't be variation in terminology.  What always makes me  though is when you refer to one as a "giant" in game, and some PC corrects you IC "They're *half*giants."  In point of fact, they are giants by virtue of being humanoids that are much larger than the general population.  Truth be told, I do kind of like "half-giant" in sdescs and as the "official" race name in chargen, as I feel it adds flavor.  That's just me, though.

[FantasyWriter]

Saying that they are still perfect half-bloods assumes that there has been no genetic evolution since the last magickally created half-blood came into being how ever many kings-ages ago.
In a world where mutation is extremely common, that concept seems to me to be extremely flawed.

[slvrmoontiger]

Saying that they are still perfect half-bloods assumes that there has been no genetic evolution since the last magickally created half-blood came into being how ever many kings-ages ago.
In a world where mutation is extremely common, that concept seems to me to be extremely flawed.

Same could be said for half-elves especially ones that are say only 1/4 elf or 1/8 elf. They are still designated as half-elves.

[ShaLeah]

Saying that they are still perfect half-bloods assumes that there has been no genetic evolution since the last magickally created half-blood came into being how ever many kings-ages ago.
In a world where mutation is extremely common, that concept seems to me to be extremely flawed.

Same could be said for half-elves especially ones that are say only 1/4 elf or 1/8 elf. They are still designated as half-elves.

That's because even an iota if elven means you're a breed. How that affects you is entirely up to your choice in description because you get the choice between looking human and breedish at creation.

Seeing as half-giants were magickally created and breed only with each other, one can assume a pure blood line. Until the game world shows different, that's how it is.

[RogueGunslinger]

Saying that they are still perfect half-bloods assumes that there has been no genetic evolution since the last magickally created half-blood came into being how ever many kings-ages ago.
In a world where mutation is extremely common, that concept seems to me to be extremely flawed.

Pretty sure you need more than just a couple thousand years of little to no mutation to change from one species into another.

That's because even an iota if elven means you're a breed. How that affects you is entirely up to your choice in description because you get the choice between looking human and breedish at creation.

Seeing as half-giants were magickally created and breed only with each other, one can assume a pure blood line. Until the game world shows different, that's how it is.

The game-world shows that they're Half-giants. So that's what they are.

[Narf]

Saying that they are still perfect half-bloods assumes that there has been no genetic evolution since the last magickally created half-blood came into being how ever many kings-ages ago.
In a world where mutation is extremely common, that concept seems to me to be extremely flawed.

Pretty sure you need more than just a couple thousand years of little to no mutation to change from one species into another.

Species change for half-giants would be a meaningless distinction because from a biological perspective they are the first species in their tree (artificial species don't really fit into standard evolutionary trees). The only way they could meaningfully change species is if one set of half-giants went off to become one species, while another set became a different species, probably requiring they spent those couple thousand years in isolation from each other to prevent constant remixing of their genes.

(In biology, species of sexually reproducing organisms is determined by what they can produce fertile children with. Elves and humans for instance would be the same species, while dwarves would be a separate species).

On topic: We need an acceptable shorthand term for half-giants! Whether it's giants, bigs, gargantuans, or flimfoozles, I don't really care. Half-elves have 'breed', half-giants need some space saving!

[BleakOne]

On topic: We need an acceptable shorthand term for half-giants! Whether it's giants, bigs, gargantuans, or flimfoozles, I don't really care. Half-elves have 'breed', half-giants need some space saving!

Big seems to be used a lot. As in "We need to hire a Big or two".

I think it's funny because it's sort of HG slang for themselves, being taken up by the smaller population.

[BadSkeelz]

Lumps to go with stumps.

[ShaLeah]

* ShaLeah votes.

flimfoozles

Come play with me Narf!

[Zoan]

Big is an actual expression? I thought I was using it just because I thought it up! Maybe I caught it via osmosis and thought I was just doing it myself.

[FantasyWriter]

Biggan.

[RogueGunslinger]

Biggan.

Biggun.

[HavokBlue]

[slvrmoontiger]

I find it quite interesting that this post has changed from calling half-giants lesser giants to  lets shorten the name. If you look at the proposed change it would actually lengthen the name. *shrugs* I know I'm just pointing out the obvious here.

Bigs is used constantly at least it has for over the past year that I've been back playing regularly, it wasn't always that way but lately its become quite consistent.

[Barzalene]

That seems to be what they call themselves, but they're not meant to set examples. (I probably shouldn't stat opinion as fact.)

[solera]

I first heard  Bigs (and Littles) a few years ago when Zune used it, though I don't know if it originated with him.  I'm happy to see it's becoming more widespread.

[Molten Heart]

How about giants vs. great giants?

[Scarecrow]

Lesser giant sounds clumsy to say, less so than half-giant. I just use giant, IC and OOC. They are big freakin' human shaped people.

[BleakOne]

I mentioned the word 'Big' in my post just to get to see this meme again. Bwahahahaha my plan is almost complete

[Fragmented]

To clarify, if it was missed in my original post, I think half-giants SHOULD be known as 'giants' to 99% of the population, IC. To 9.9 out of 10 people who have never seen a 'true giant' a halfgiant would simply be a giant.

I do think however that the very educated (read, literate, and ones who care enough about the subject to study it) and maybe those who have had the honor (horror?) to see a true giant would refer to them as lesser giants in manuscripts or whatnot, for the sake of posterity. Of course, none of this means much since the people have spoken and most seem to think it's fine the way it is.

[Zoan]

* ShaLeah votes.

flimfoozles

Come play with me Narf!

In Australia we call half-giants shaz-wuzzas.

[Nyr]

Lumps to go with stumps.

That's funny.

[Desertman]

When halflings are put back in the game so I can have funny little sidekicks, we are going to call them tinys.

(Google tells me "tinies" is the correct plural form of Tiny when used as a noun. I prefer tinys. I just think it looks better.)