Armor and Dreams

[senseofeven]

Would wearing 'less' armor make you die faster in the game?

Could you like just wearing a shoulder plate, a helm, a neckguard, loincloth, bracers and boots like a boss gladiator and still wreck most dangers in the game world?

OR is it you have to be wearing something on ALL body slots just to maximize your character's survival rate?

Cause I would so love to wear lesser armor and pretend to be a valkyrie.

[QuillDipper]

Let me open by saying that I am not the expert in this matter at all.

Having stated that, it should be less about what your character WOULD survive longer in and more about what your character would THINK they would survive in.

From a stats perspective, there are skills that can fill the role armor does well if high enough. Not to mention natural resilience and such.

[rodic]

I'm pretty much a newb myself
But there are two factors here.
More armor = better protection in combat
So yes, in combat more armor = safer

Yet,
Wearing all black leather and heavy bone/chitin plates in 130 degree weather, during a harsh sand storm, while trying to support your other survival gear (Tent, water, food, supplies, etc).
(think encumbrance)


Well no amount of Armor protects you from the mighty Krath, the killer of all.

Really it depends on your character, how you play them, who they are, what they do for a living.

[RogueGunslinger]

Meh. Armor can help, if you find yourself in situation where 10-20 hp can make a difference. Or if you're sparring and want more training time. Otherwise? It behaves like you would expect it to. The chitin and bone and leather can negate a little some damage from a bone sword, sure, but if a Mekillot bites your leg, expect to feel like you're wearing no armor at all.

[FreeRangeVestric]

Just doooooo it, safety be damned!

Welcome to Armageddon. 

[Saellyn]

Armor encumbers you which means, depending how heavy it is, you will start to notice a very real effect on many of your combat skills. Specifically? Can't tell you. What I can say is, the more weight you carry, the worse you perform in battle. It's a trade-off between safety and thick chitin versus mobility and speed.

[Drayab]

A highly skilled warrior will kick ass fighting in the nude and wielding a spoon, and they will look like an insane badass doing it.

Likewise equipped, a noob warrior will look like an idiot. They will be ridiculed, and no one will be surprised when they get killed.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Wear armor. Don't wear so much that it becomes a burden.

[Yummri]

Safer you may be... but!

Style is always important. Style might be even more important. Least I think so.
What your character would wear is vastly more important than what you statistically should wear. For even if you die, at least you did it in style, and its that that creates the memorable characters.

After all... The newb that faught a met in full armor no one will remember. But one who did it bareass covered in butter with a shovel will live forever as a legend.

[RogueGunslinger]

I'm also for style over function. Your character will die either way.

[Ourla]

After all... The newb that faught a met in full armor no one will remember. But one who did it bareass covered in butter with a shovel will live forever as a legend.

Well said.  

[Desertman]

Just leaving this here....





Also, agility trumps armor, and almost everything else...all day long....

If you want to go no armor, I recommend playing a child or a warrior (or both), and almost certainly prioritizing agility.

[FantasyWriter]

For you newer players out there who never had the privilege of experiencing the awesomeness of Gage Fucking Gritshaw, he was one of the best examples of a Zalanthan mercenary that ever was (in my humble opinion).  Of note for this thread, he was famous for wearing only a loincloth (later a codpiece) and boots and still kicking ass and chewing bubblegum all over the sands.
That was what, like six or seven years ago, now? Wow.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Nah, four, I think.

[senseofeven]

Haha. Thanks for the posts everyone. I certainly do like style and yes, I will work towards a PC with less armor.

However just a question about stats. Let's say I did not prioritize the agility first. Is there a way to like get the order changed up and stats rolled accordingly?

[najdorf]

Would wearing 'less' armor make you die faster in the game?

Could you like just wearing a shoulder plate, a helm, a neckguard, loincloth, bracers and boots like a boss gladiator and still wreck most dangers in the game world?

OR is it you have to be wearing something on ALL body slots just to maximize your character's survival rate?

Cause I would so love to wear lesser armor and pretend to be a valkyrie.

There is not an overall AC point system in armageddon. Each piece of armor protects where you wear it on.
So, if you are wearing silt-horror shell armor everywhere except one small area, i.e. left wrist. And if you get hit on your wrist, you will receive the full amount of damage.
Rest of your body will be protected, depending on the quality of armor (among other things)

[valeria]

Also it's a good idea to keep in mind your area's fighting style, if you're from a city.  Different cities have different thoughts about how much armor is good armor.

Not that you can't or shouldn't play a lightly armored warrior from Tuluk, it'd just be less likely generally.

[Saellyn]

Haha. Thanks for the posts everyone. I certainly do like style and yes, I will work towards a PC with less armor.

However just a question about stats. Let's say I did not prioritize the agility first. Is there a way to like get the order changed up and stats rolled accordingly?

Before submitting, yes. After that, no.

[FantasyWriter]

Nah, four, I think.

Ah, for some reason I was thinking it was around the time I started playing, guess it was more like when I first started not being a H&S twink.

[Desertman]

Nah, four, I think.

Ah, for some reason I was thinking it was around the time I started playing, guess it was more like when I first started not being a H&S twink.

A little over six years actually.

[FantasyWriter]

>em sticks his tongue out at 7DV.  Then he runs.... fast.

[Kryos]

Just a bit on the whole Gage Gritshaw/running around naked thing for newbies and veterans alike.  To me, someone like this would be the biggest pile of immersion breaking crap I've ever seen.  No offense to the player, but, if you didn't wish up and asked to be heat stroked and sunbaked dead in a few hours of running around in the harshest desert environment we can imagine, well,  you did poorly.  And so did staff for not doing it to you.

Exposure kills in the desert.  Even if you have little to no armor, you will most definitely want head to toe clothing.  And yes, all those delves who run around with next to nothing on all the time fill me with a similar disappointment.  Its one thing for someone in a city to move from shade point to shade point with skin revealed, but if you're spending a day+ in the wastes half naked or 90% naked, you're dead.

As for the armor part itself:  new players will find it advantageous to wear as much armor as is reasonable by noting what their messaging says with the 'stat' command.  And if you want to wear little or no armor, wear little to no armor!  Just make sure you've clothes on.

[RogueGunslinger]

Wearing loads of thick black armor is equally ridiculous but happens way, way more frequent. Zalanthans can take some sun and heat like nobody else.

[Narf]

Just a bit on the whole Gage Gritshaw/running around naked thing for newbies and veterans alike.  To me, someone like this would be the biggest pile of immersion breaking crap I've ever seen.  No offense to the player, but, if you didn't wish up and asked to be heat stroked and sunbaked dead in a few hours of running around in the harshest desert environment we can imagine, well,  you did poorly.  And so did staff for not doing it to you.

Exposure kills in the desert.  Even if you have little to no armor, you will most definitely want head to toe clothing.  And yes, all those delves who run around with next to nothing on all the time fill me with a similar disappointment.  Its one thing for someone in a city to move from shade point to shade point with skin revealed, but if you're spending a day+ in the wastes half naked or 90% naked, you're dead.

As for the armor part itself:  new players will find it advantageous to wear as much armor as is reasonable by noting what their messaging says with the 'stat' command.  And if you want to wear little or no armor, wear little to no armor!  Just make sure you've clothes on.

Have you done the calculations necessary to ensure this prediction remains accurate under a red sun?

Anyone know of any kryptonian studies on heat stroke and exposure?

[Drayab]

Meh, a little un-realism doesn't bother me if the game seems better for it. In the case of scantly clad badasses, I say go for it.

[Voular]

Just a bit on the whole Gage Gritshaw/running around naked thing for newbies and veterans alike.  To me, someone like this would be the biggest pile of immersion breaking crap I've ever seen.  No offense to the player, but, if you didn't wish up and asked to be heat stroked and sunbaked dead in a few hours of running around in the harshest desert environment we can imagine, well,  you did poorly.  And so did staff for not doing it to you.

Exposure kills in the desert.  Even if you have little to no armor, you will most definitely want head to toe clothing.  And yes, all those delves who run around with next to nothing on all the time fill me with a similar disappointment.  Its one thing for someone in a city to move from shade point to shade point with skin revealed, but if you're spending a day+ in the wastes half naked or 90% naked, you're dead.

As for the armor part itself:  new players will find it advantageous to wear as much armor as is reasonable by noting what their messaging says with the 'stat' command.  And if you want to wear little or no armor, wear little to no armor!  Just make sure you've clothes on.

Yeah. No.

They would have coded that in. There is a thirst code, a stamina draining code from walking around, wearing more clothes/armor helps with various things. But anyone who lives in a planet with a red sky and a giant sun is going to be able to adapt. We can all agree on that. And presuming what the staff/players should or shouldn't do is bad form.

[FantasyWriter]

Many Aboriginal and Sans tribals would disagree that sparse clothing and desert life to not go hand in hand.

[Scarecrow]

I'm not sure I agree with the agility thing. The best bet is someone with good armor, and an average but not shitty agility. If you go to fight like conan in a loincloth, and rely on dodging/parry/block, all it takes is one mistake and you'll get nailed, hard. People with armor get to make mistakes and live.

[RogueGunslinger]

I'm not sure I agree with the agility thing. The best bet is someone with good armor, and an average but not shitty agility. If you go to fight like conan in a loincloth, and rely on dodging/parry/block, all it takes is one mistake and you'll get nailed, hard. People with armor get to make mistakes and live.

Eh, I really have to disagree to an extent. If it's a big enough hit to fuck you up, it's going to fuck you up no matter what. There a point where armor gets really diminishing returns around creature's/pc's that can regularly deal 20-25 dmg. If you're going to fight an elf though, damn is armor impressive and helpful.

[Harmless]

I like that there are strong opinions on both sides of this question. I think it speaks to the joys of Arma's combat system. The truth is both are viable, they are strategies that work well in some but not all situations.

[Desertman]

People throw fireballs from their hands and fight dinosaurs with bone swords and win. Let's not play the realism card just because some people have concepts that don't include wearing giant insect shells on their bodies in the desert and obsidian breastplates.

I mean, because lulz.

[Kryos]

Well, as I said, its my opinion.  Also, in fact:  Armageddon has a lot of abstractions regarding physical behaviors.  Wounds, and more so 'physical harm' are all abstracted into damage to your hp, mv, and stun totals.  There are very few coded means of punishing any sort of behavior that seems unlikely.  I could repeatedly jump off a fall room down to 1 hp, sleep for 5 rl minuts, and then motor around with no one ever being able to tell I was hurt.  I can stay in the desert for a whole rl day, never finding shelter, never sleeping, never resting:  so long as I have enough water.

Thus, its put on players to respect the environment and things that happen to them.   With all that in mind:  running around mostly naked to do things in a harsh desert world =  immersion breaking on the highest level.  For me.

As for the aboriginals who walk around with little clothing:  they don't do so in the times of day that = certain death in a desert.  I've seen them in forest, rain forest, plains and so on.  But even the badass African lion killing plains stalking people wear a whole hell of a lot of skin covering garb.  That Iranian man in the news recently for smoking dung and grebbing for a living?  Covered head to toe in clothing.  So on, and so forth.

Annnnnnnd, since I was partially responsible for the tangent, back on topic:

Even against enemies that hit for 20+ hp damage, armor can be the different between life and death.  And has been for my PCs at times. 

[RogueGunslinger]

I'll just leave this here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o

Oh hey, look, they're wearing hardly any clothes. Now it doesn't have to break your immersion, knowing it can be done in real life.

[Desertman]

Thus, its put on players to respect the environment and things that happen to them.   With all that in mind:  running around mostly naked to do things in a harsh desert world =  immersion breaking on the highest level.  For me.

Running around throwing fireballs and fighting giant insects and dinosaurs with bone swords while wearing obsidian breastplates in the middle of a desert is immersion breaking for me...well...no it isn't actually, because I realize this is Zalanthas, and not Earth.

Thus, it is put on the players to understand this isn't Earth, and it is Zalanthas, and the people and the environments in question can only extremely loosely be held up to the limited standards of real life people and environments.

But, that is just my opinion.  

[Inks]

More unrealistic wearing heavy armour all the time. I agree with desertman on this.
It's ridiculous as anything to say being nearly naked in the desert is unrealistic. So much so that I believe you're trolling sir.

[Kronibas]

It's way easier to poke holes in a character or a character's actions than it is to shape one who stands out vividly to others, years later.

It is extremely easy to be a critic on Armageddon... for players /and/ staff.  We all need to be careful about poking too many holes.  It's an admittedly flawed fantasy world, not there is a such a thing as a perfect fantasy world, so sacrifices in reason, science, and more common sense aspects often fall to the wayside, with imagination and fun taking precedence.

Often times, I feel as though people, myself included, are far too often victims of a marked lack of imagination in a game whose success is couched firmly IN imagination.

The only time I have ever lost karma, I still maintain, comes from a lack of imagination on that staff member's part, as what I was punished for, if written in a narrative format instead of limited expression though the code, would have made a lot more sense.  Whatever, though. 

Don't be afraid to use your imagination in big ways on this game, because that's the ONLY reason it's been as successful as it has: strong, inspired imagination.

[Bogre]

The most important answer to this question hasn't been mentioned yet:

wear what your character would wear.

If this means that your character wears full plate, do it. If you are a tribal and wear sandcloth wrap-pants then do it. Some of my most fun characters to play didn't wear heavy armor, and who ran around in smocks/ragged wraps of cloth.

Someone a while ago posted about his loincloth-wearing-desert elf who would dominate the known with his chipped obsidian dagger wielded in his off hand.

Go for broke.

[FantasyWriter]

The most important answer to this question hasn't been mentioned yet:

wear what your character would wear.

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[senseofeven]

Alright Armers!

I have another question pertaining to armor. Are crafters able to build customized kind?

How much impossible can we make possible in this world here, too?

[Cutthroat]

People with their armorcrafting skill at "master" level can mastercraft pieces of armor. That is armor with the crafting recipe, description, and other aspects of the item determined by the player. Typically only characters with the merchant guild and some special extended subguilds can attain master rank in most crafts. For other crafts, it works the same way - being able to make unique weapons, furniture, etc. There is a time limit on how many you can submit though, to ensure you roleplay the design process (and more practically, to give staff time to set up the item). There's more info on mastercrafting in its helpfile.

[Saellyn]

IIRC it's one month per mastercraft, so that staff can get everything setup and so you can go through the entire process like Cutthroat said. Sometimes it may take longer than a month to get setup - in that situation, I think the best policy is to just wait until it's setup, and during that setup process continually revise and prepare your next mastercraft. Mastercrafts are just that - you want to take your time with them. Make them look good, make them beautiful, ugly, make them look like a sloppy pile of fecal matter if you want.

Just because it's a "master" craft, doesn't mean it's a masterful work. It could be a big pile of crap - and you could even roleplay that yourself, that your characters design process could gradually become more and more complex the more things he designs all on his own. Nothing stops you from using your imagination with a mastercraft, within reason.