Independents: Poorer, Funner, Better.

[morrigan]

Make grebbing/hunting miserable and what's left for an indie? None of you are answering that. Nor the fact that, for those indies who don't want to grind, being able to quickly profit from salt or whatever means they have more time to actually interact with others.

I don't think anybody has problems with people salting..only with make 1k sid/ig day doing so.

Maybe the problem could be fixed with the time-honored tradition of only cheap goods being easily found and having to travel to truly dangerous locations in order to find the good stuff.

[Patuk]

Again, having the easy jobs pay in food/water would solve a lot. I really don't get why it'd be such an immense problem.

[morrigan]

I'm with you on that Patuk. Supposedly, food and water are supposed to be scarce in the world and hard for the poor folk to come by. Lines of people should file out every morning and shovel poo, greb stones, gather salt, sweep the streets, etc and then file back at night and turn in their results in exchange for a skin of water and loaf of bread.

Alternatively, people who only play for an hour a day should stop feeling like they are entitled to make as much money as someone who puts in eight hours.

[Kronibas]

employee housing beyond footlockers.

I really like the idea of private clan sponsored rooms... good ones with good locks and guards and stuff.  I think it would definitely increase clan patronage.  Getting an apartment in a certain city state right now is basically a lost cause.

[Malken]

What if the salting people and other "coded" jobs would pay in a token that could only be used to purchase basic items from them?

From what I understand, these jobs are only meant to help you with basic needs to begin with, not make 25 sids x 100 a RL hour.

Like the salting peeps could give you a token for a certain amount of salt foraged and you could trade those tokens for things like basic food, a skin of water, a few torches, some tools, etc.. Sorta like in the mining communities of the 19th century where monopolies would pay their workers in currencies that could only be redeemed in their sponsored shops (still the case in some Canadian mining industries, I believe)

[Kronibas]

Also, the building outside the southern Kadian estate was made as employee housing initially, but it turned out to be a logistical nightmare... this was before the apartment code, so it would be a LOT better now.

[levinj]

What about putting a generous timer on the forage craft? X number of successes, and you're done for the day? Atonement did something similar to help promote a starvation environment, and it seemed to work.

[Malken]

What about putting a generous timer on the forage craft? X number of successes, and you're done for the day? Atonement did something similar to help promote a starvation environment, and it seemed to work.

Timers of any sort are universally hated around here and FORBIDDEN.

[morrigan]

What about putting a generous timer on the forage craft? X number of successes, and you're done for the day? Atonement did something similar to help promote a starvation environment, and it seemed to work.

Timers of any sort are universally hated around here and FORBIDDEN.

Timers?! Timers?! We don't need no stinking...yeah.

[X-D]

I will go back and read other two pages later, replying to Dar now.

While I do not have a problem with people wanting other people to be in clans, Those people need to remember, not all people are them, not all clans fit all people/pcs etc. In fact, making it hard for indies pretty much means, assuming it is hard enough, no more elves or breeds. And really, why not work to just make the clans more enticing? Far as that goes, I have never had a problem being in a clan that did  not have enough players, in fact, most the time I would say too many.

[levinj]

Heh, fair dues.

Personally, I got no beetle in this race. Though I love the idea of giving privileged clan members a place to stay. Corporal Amos of the City Militia can't find an apartment, but it's cool, because he has his little one-room whack-shack to fall back on and save him the monthly sids.

[Narf]

Again, having the easy jobs pay in food/water would solve a lot. I really don't get why it'd be such an immense problem.

I actually like this idea so much, I think it should be more broadly applied. Paying in food and water needs to be more of a thing.

[morrigan]

Alright..so we set up these compounds..we can call them camps. Then, we take everyone who has no -real- job or affiliations, and put them in these camps. Then, we put them to work on building infrastructure and maintaining the Highlord's city and in return they get a place to sleep, three meals a day and water. Problem solved. We could put a sign above the entrance to the camp that no one but nobles can read. It would need a catchy slogan on it...something like...work will make you free...or something along those lines.

[Refugee]

employee housing beyond footlockers.

I really like the idea of private clan sponsored rooms... good ones with good locks and guards and stuff.  I think it would definitely increase clan patronage.  Getting an apartment in a certain city state right now is basically a lost cause.

This would be great for House employees.  It wouldn't have to be much, room for a rug and a net, maybe.  And just for lifesworn or the equivalent of course.  People with longevity or higher responsibility could be given better rooms.  It would help make up for the disparities in income that seems to be bothering people so much.

[Harmless]

What if the salting people and other "coded" jobs would pay in a token that could only be used to purchase basic items from them?

From what I understand, these jobs are only meant to help you with basic needs to begin with, not make 25 sids x 100 a RL hour.

Like the salting peeps could give you a token for a certain amount of salt foraged and you could trade those tokens for things like basic food, a skin of water, a few torches, some tools, etc.. Sorta like in the mining communities of the 19th century where monopolies would pay their workers in currencies that could only be redeemed in their sponsored shops (still the case in some Canadian mining industries, I believe)

I like this, but I'm an evil bastard.

[Kronibas]

employee housing beyond footlockers.

I really like the idea of private clan sponsored rooms... good ones with good locks and guards and stuff.  I think it would definitely increase clan patronage.  Getting an apartment in a certain city state right now is basically a lost cause.

This would be great for House employees.  It wouldn't have to be much, room for a rug and a net, maybe.  And just for lifesworn or the equivalent of course.  People with longevity or higher responsibility could be given better rooms.  It would help make up for the disparities in income that seems to be bothering people so much.

I think this idea has enough merit to rate a thread of its own.

Really, housing seems like a good way to amend any perceived problems.  Right now, housing seems all kinds of fucked up.


Nearly every apartment in Allanak stays full constantly.  But guess what?  The magicker quarter apartments, as of a week or two ago, were COMPLETELY EMPTY.

Moreover, not only are they empty, but non-gemmers are forbidden from renting them.  Uhhh, I kinda tried.


So... the only apartments that discriminate against certain people in all of Allanak... actually discriminate in favor of magickers.  Isn't that a smidge counter intuitive?

[Malken]

That's because most 'gikers are wealthy as fuck, Kronibas, and they are often the ones with the three-room apartments.

Honestly, I don't even know why they're allowed to rent apartments elsewhere than in 'giker town.

[Kronibas]

Each individual House having its own employee thing outside an estate would be neat, but also an apartment building for all of them would be good, too, for simplicity in building's sake.

Then again, it's really easy to come up with ideas for other people to build and code.  

Housing projects like this could be pursued ICly.  I mean, imagine how grateful minions would be if a GMH or noble character managed to get something like that built for them.

[Kronibas]

Honestly, I don't even know why they're allowed to rent apartments elsewhere than in 'giker town.

If you ask me, they shouldn't be.  I might feel differently if they didn't have their own totally unused ones and if, unlike 3 years or so ago, there were actually somewhat frequent vacancies with apartments.

I don't know, all the gemmer temples were burned not long ago, so right in the middle of the people who burned them might not want to be where magickers should want to live.

[LauraMars]

That's because most 'gikers are wealthy as fuck, Kronibas, and they are often the ones with the three-room apartments.

Honestly, I don't even know why they're allowed to rent apartments elsewhere than in 'giker town.

Yeah.  In my opinion it's ridiculous and shouldn't be allowed...they have a gem quarter, access to temples (which is like a private area of safety without even needing to join a clan), and apartments of their own.  Not having access to the apartment buildings in the main part of the city makes perfect sense.  Life should be shittier for a gemmed mage in Allanak, not better.

[ShaLeah]

If Gicks can't rent an apt outside their quarter, Nobles shouldn't have apartments outside their quarter either. Through their aides or on the lease. 

Lol.

[Harmless]

We have nearly unanimous agreement on some issues that can be pursued ICly. I say people should start going for it in game. I bet staff will consider it, or at least discuss the potential developments over requests.

[Kalai]

Alternatively, people who only play for an hour a day should stop feeling like they are entitled to make as much money as someone who puts in eight hours.

I don't think anyone feels like this, and I think if you play this game as a full-time job you're likely going to be getting a heck of a lot more out of it pretty much regardless of role.  

[LauraMars]

If Gicks can't rent an apt outside their quarter, Nobles shouldn't have apartments outside their quarter either. Through their aides or on the lease. 

Lol.

Er...what?

You're comparing gemmed mages, one of the most reviled and shunned castes in the city, to nobles - the most revered and wealthy caste in the city - and saying they should have the same privileges as far as renting apartments goes?

Sorry, but I'm really confused.

How do those two things even compare?  If you want to propose an argument that nobles shouldn't be allowed to rent apartments, then build a case for your theory (maybe in another thread, as nobles are about as far from independent as it is possible to be)...but don't say they shouldn't be allowed to rent apartments because mages shouldn't be allowed to rent apartments.  That doesn't make any sense at all.

Lol.

[Kronibas]

It's true that one merchant playing a lot more than another merchant has the capacity to earn more coins, but that doesn't necessarily mean they do.  The former could have 20 days and less than 500 coins while the latter could be 10 days with 5000 coins.  It depends on the character - and the player.