Discussion of Rape being banned from plotlines

[TheWanderer]

That was pretty deep... I think you're winning the thread.

[Heade]

For my own part, I'd rather not be the one who causes someone psychological pain, and I don't think that's a sensitivity issue, it's a human decency issue.  Just because we play murderous, vile assholes on a game, it definitely doesn't mean you have to be one in the real world.  There is no parallel, sorry.

If people who had relatives murdered in front of them were sending tons of requests in to the staff about character death being too traumatic on them, and staff responded by eliminating character death from the game, do you think that would be ok? That is the parallel here.

[26 dollars]

For my own part, I'd rather not be the one who causes someone psychological pain, and I don't think that's a sensitivity issue, it's a human decency issue.  Just because we play murderous, vile assholes on a game, it definitely doesn't mean you have to be one in the real world.  There is no parallel, sorry.

If people who had relatives murdered in front of them were sending tons of requests in to the staff about character death being too traumatic on them, and staff responded by eliminating character death from the game, do you think that would be ok? That is the parallel here.

There is no parallel, because these two things are not congruent.  Staff may say this is a workload issue, but why do you think that is?  Because it's an issue that is too sensitive and mature for some people to handle.  That's it, pure and simple.  And why is it seemingly more sensitive an issue than murder?  Look at the numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#United_States

In turn, if you look at murder statistics, you have a better chance of being struck by lightning than being murdered, much less witnessing a murder.  Even in America.  In fact, many of us play this game (myself included) to chop up mothafuckaz with bone swordz.  It's a fantasy.

Anyway, if you were psychologically traumatized by witnessing murder and torture, would you come to a game that has Murder in the tagline?

[26 dollars]

I should clarify, though, that I'm in the camp of "why the vNPCs?"  They can't make staff complaints.  In fact, it seems perfectly fine to just take out the PC-to-PC action of rape, and leave it at that.  No mess, no fuss.

[Heade]

Anyway, if you were psychologically traumatized by witnessing murder and torture, would you come to a game that has Murder in the tagline?

No, and that's my point. People are making the rape thing an issue because it's being allowed to be made an issue. If staff just said,

"Look, rape happens. If you don't want to play a victim, you have the right to deny consent to play a victim. If the other party tries to make you a victim anyhow, log it and send a request, and they will be punished. Beyond that, we don't want to hear about how it hurts your feelings to hear about it at all. If you send us frivolous requests regarding this issue, in which you are not specifically being forced into a victim role, the punishment will be handed out to you for wasting staff's time. Have a great day."

This would weed out those too sensitive to deal with that type of mature content in any way, while maintaining the integrity of the game. I haven't seen a lot of rape in the game, but I certainly believe that it should have a right to exist.

[26 dollars]

I'm inclined to think that in a perfect situation of a cut and dry rape scene, that 60% of the time, that works every time.  But the problem is the grey areas that required staff input, not once, not twice, but many times from different parties.  Ultimately, because of the complexity and sensitivity of the issue, that appears to be what has happened.

I don't think saying, now, that we'll be good kids is gonna get that particular toy back.  I'm hoping staff will continue to let it be a part of the game's atmosphere, though.

[MeTekillot]

I feel like the negative energy that rape presents when it becomes the focus of plotlines is a lot more than what it contributes to the game when it becomes involved in a plotline whatsoever.

[Heade]

I roleplayed with someone who's character had been raped in her backstory, and it totally shaped her playstyle. I enjoyed RPing with that character, probably moreso than any other character I've ever interacted with, and this new rule would have made that character not exist, at least in the form that she did.

[26 dollars]

I roleplayed with someone who's character had been raped in her backstory, and it totally shaped her playstyle. I enjoyed RPing with that character, probably moreso than any other character I've ever interacted with, and this new rule would have made that character not exist, at least in the form that she did.

Yeah, I'm honestly getting tired of talking about rape, but as a closing remark, I do hope we get to keep things such as this.  It's been said you can still include rape in your backstory, but you can't talk about it.  I hope the rules are amended so that it can still be a subject of discussion, and even a viable threat.  I never used it, myself, but I'm sure someone, somewhere has done it, and done it well.

[DustMight]

Re: rape plotlines not being allowed:

Good. I can think of tons of great fiction that have avoided this. It ain't needed 'round here neither.

I can think of tons of incredible fiction that have included this, even in ftb scenarios.

Right.

The point stands though. It's not needed and with all the negative issues and problems it brings it is not worth it.
It's good to have it gone.

That's not why it was removed, and that's an invalid argument to having it removed. A lot of things we play with have negative issues appended to them. Rape simply has a very primal response built in to itself. That said - Staff banned it because people kept sending in complaints and they were tired of dealing with that shit. Hell, I'd get real tired of dealing with that shit after the first one.

I wasn't stating why it was removed - I was stating why I was glad it was removed.  I'm glad. I didn't like it, don't think it's needed.  That is all.

[Riya OniSenshi]

The only thing I want to know, if staff has time, is can we still use "rape" in its non-sexual form?

I've known more than one PC that could be called a "rapist of the natural world", and whose actions when in the wastes could only be described as "raping the environment for profit". Some of them were talked about in-game this way.

Is this too banned?

And for clarification, I'm using the definition of rape found on dictionary.com, specifically definitions #4 and #7 (and possibly #5 and #8):

rape   [reyp]
noun
1.
the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
2.
any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.
3.
statutory rape.
4.
an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.
5.
Archaic. the act of seizing and carrying off by force.
verb (used with object), raped, rap·ing.
6.
to force to have sexual intercourse.
7.
to plunder (a place); despoil.
8.
to seize, take, or carry off by force.
verb (used without object), raped, rap·ing.
9.
to commit rape.

[DustMight]

I've known more than one PC that could be called a "rapist of the natural world", and whose actions when in the wastes could only be described as "raping the environment for profit". Some of them were talked about in-game this way.

I've known real-life friends who use the word "rape" in a non-sexual form; "I'm so hungry I'm going to rape the fridge" being one example and of course "raping mother earth of her minerals" or what-have-you.

I've always found it, like wanton RL use of vulgarity, to be weak, pedestrian and generally an indicator of the lack of imagination on the part of the one speaking so.  Judicious use could certainly be useful - but few seem to use it this way.

[FreeRangeVestric]

Well. I guess I'll just join the House Kawaii "Keep playing how I was, and be shocked if I get banned" camp and call it a day. No use fighting a battle I can't win. If I get stored because my character is sleeping with someone out of fearing them or some other less honest motive rather than some old-fashioned monogamous, missionary-style Zalanthan love, or for a particularly crude one of mine mentioning that she would do some less than honorable things to someone, or even saying that such threats exist in a harsh world like the one we've created, I'm not so certain I want to keep playing them anyway. I don't think I was involved in any of the things that led to this decision being made, so hopefully I'll be safe from the rules that were designed to stop them.

And with that, I bow out of this thread...Though I did that before and my need to argue drew me right back, so we'll see how it goes this time! 

[Lutagar]

Well. I guess I'll just join the House Kawaii "Keep playing how I was, and be shocked if I get banned" camp and call it a day.

This.

I don't think anything we can post in this thread could make staff change their minds. I'm probably going to martyr and not heed this new rule, then go play elsewhere if/when I get banned for it. Anyone else who disagrees or is considering leaving over this should do the same.

[Potaje]

If the workload on the subject is so heavy, does that mean there are that many unprecedented numbers of players acting out non-consenting rapes and or tortures?

I for one have sexualized torture, without having to actual rape, but eluded to such possibilities to create edge. I have stroked victim's hair in a toying fashion while deciding their fate. Such things that I could be banned for now, if I have the right of it.

Nothing I have done was without consent first, I must include. Nor had I ever received a complaint or warning. Surely their are those of use that are responsible in our approach that the new rule is a bit.. mystifying.

I too remember a time when I thought something harsh, to harsh in my first year of playing and staff said, grow a thicker skin.

I would think that the work load for complaints of unfairness in other ways, including being murdered would out number that of the topic, but if it doesn't I am a gawk of surprise.

I also had to stop an ponder the whole -being accused falsely-. At first I thought this might of referenced in game, ad to that I thought, Shit happens, people get accused of all sorts of things that get them killed.

Then I stopped to consider maybe the false accusation was on an ooc level. That I could see being harsh to deal with.

All I can say is that there are so many questions and things simply unanswered for me to take a hard line stance on it. But I currently don't agree with loosing the edge  for concern of where it will continue to draw Arm to.
 

[thewolfen3]

Maybe, with them freeing up a bit of their staff management, we can have nice things with their focus on different matters.

[BleakOne]

Wow, I spend a few days off the internet for Christmas and come back to eleven pages of this...

Jeez...

The staff of Arm a pretty damn awesome. I have no doubt this new rule will be enforced with the care it is due, and they won't be tossing permabans around for any vaguely related slip-of-the-tongue (or text, as the case may be). I think people might need to stop freaking out about it like it's the end of the Known.

[spicemustflow]

I wish people would stop whining about Christmas in this thread, it's fucking annoying.

[MeTekillot]

but joke. . .and. . . juxtaposition. . .

[spicemustflow]

I don't see any joke, just people complaining how all this rape is polluting their wholesome holiday.

[Lutagar]

Their wholesome holiday is polluting our rape thread. They can go make another thread to wish one another a merry Christmas or whatever.

[Barzalene]

I'm thrilled not to even be asked any more. It always felt like the text equivalent of being groped in the subway. Maybe nothing particularly damaging took place, but it still leaves you feeling icky.

Does that make me an oversensitive whiner? Maybe. Don't care.

For me the only issue on the table is the vnpc world. I think they are imaginary and don't need to be spared from harm. Is this a huge issue for me? No. But I see what people are saying about villains. And I don't think that on most days much damage will arise from the wholesale abuse of the entirely imaginary virtual population.

[Desertman]

My greatest issue with this whole thing from a playability standpoint....

Every single villain I play now will have to be asexual, or for some reason be rotten in every single aspect of their existence, except their sexual desires.

EVERY SINGLE VILLAIN WILL ONLY WANT LOVING CARING CONSENSUAL  SEX.

With the rule the way it is now, you aren't even allowed to THINK horrible rotten things in regards to your sexual psychological makeup.

That is so jarring to me I can't even imagine playing a villain if I am forced to follow that mindset. Being wicked and evil means I am not ABLE to feel caring loving emotions towards other people. That is what makes you a villain. The inability to empathize with the fears or pain of others.

So, every single villain I play will be forced to be asexual, or have an extremely IC'ly jarring weak spot for caring how people feel when it comes to the sex.

"So Evil Amos, you want to go down to the tavern and see about gettin' some tail tonight?"

"Ummm, well I would really like to, but I don't care for the sex."

Or...

"So Evil Amos, you want to go down to the tavern and see about gettin' some tail tonight?"

"Sure, but only if she is up for it. I can't bring myself to force myself on anyone. It isn't right."


If you take rape out of the virtual world, or out completely to the point you can't even play a rapist (even if you don't rape PC's), then suddenly, the two above scenarios are the ONLY way a villain can answer sexual questions.

They either have to be pure when it comes to their sexual desires, or have no sexual desires.

Which is jarring no matter how you put it, and pretty damned stupid really.

In the past it would go like this....

"So Evil Amos, want to head down to the tavern and get some tail?"

"Sure fella', you go in and get ya' some tail after payin' for drinks. I'll be tha' guy knockin'm in tha' skull for free when they stagger out later."

Then of course that wouldn't happen. But it allowed me to illustrate the sexual psychology of my psychopath. With the new rules, I can't even do that, even though not a single PC was ever raped.

It is at this point we enter into the field of censoring just to censor with no measurable payoff, and it is at that point, it is an obvious push to PG13, because it is no longer about limiting the number of player complaints for staff workload, and it is at that point it is really just about thought policing the playerbase to make it more user friendly for everyone.

[Barzalene]

I think you can have a villian who is not a rapist. There are a lot of ways to be dysfunctional that are not rape.
Have abusive relationships. Get into their pants then lose interest in them. Insult them. Betray them. Kill them after. Or yes. Be asexual.

[Desertman]

I think you can have a villian who is not a rapist. There are a lot of ways to be dysfunctional that are not rape.

Sure, I can, I illustrated above how to do that.

It is just jarring.

When I play villains, I play VILLAINS. People who are rotten beyond rotten. They lack the ability to feel anything good in life. The pain of others is their only payoff. They are the reason your kids hide under the blankets at night.

But now I have two options, asexual, or for some reason they have a jarring weak spot when it comes to other's feelings in regards to sex.