Slavery and Slave Roles in Armageddon

[Jherlen]

By popular demand! Posts from the RAT thread:

We have got to brainstorm a "soft" slavery that fits the setting, does not require copious imm involvement, is not isolating, and has imm approval. Someone make a thread!

Desertman started a good topic with these thoughts:

I never saw the problem with slavery.

In a perma-death game you can kill people at will and end their ability to enjoy their character/keep playing them.

But, you can't take them into slavery because it might end their ability to enjoy their character/keep playing them. It would be harder to take a slave IC than it would be to kill them. A lot harder. I remember a dwarf I once sold into slavery with a PC leader of mine. I also sold a half-elf into slavery once. I feel like both of those characters preferred that to just being straight killed. Both also went on to enjoy their roles from everything I saw going forward.

I just never understood the argument against it. "People might not like being a slave and have to store." Well, now I will just auto-store them instead and never give them the option, also known as killing them.

Maybe it created more staff work somewhere that I'm unaware of.

I'd like to explore this more.

Players in general, do you want to play a slave? Why or why not?

How would we feel if templars or crews working for the slaving houses were actually allowed to capture PCs as slaves?

Staff, what were some of the problems you saw with slave roles that led to the current "no slaves unless a sponsored role" rule in place?

Players who played slaves previously, how did you find the role? Did you end up storing due to boredom of restriction? What were some of the challenges/fun things about the slave role?

And to everyone, how can we make slavery fit into the game world better, seeing as how much of the population of the two cities is enslaved and two of the largest Noble Houses are slave-oriented?

[Desertman]

I would play a slave sure. Not one where I just apped a slave most likely, but one where I was forced into slavery through IC events. I could get into that.

I don't think anything needs to be "changed" to make playing a slave or taking slaves "viable". It already is on both fronts. The concept that they aren't is purely an OOC concept/rule. I think people just need to toughen up and stop crying/complaining if they end up on the bad end of a slave trade.

Don't want to be killed in Armageddon? Don't put yourself in "get killed" situations.

Don't want to get slaved in Armageddon. Don't put yourself in "get slaved" situations.

That being said, we can already take/capture, own, and roleplay slaves, we just don't call them slaves. We call them fearful underlings that get paid with getting to stay alive.

[Erythil]

I've always suspected that the problem here is less that people will be forced into a situation where they are a captive servant, but more that they would be forced to participate in weird BDSM style sexual shenanigans.

[Lutagar]

I've always suspected that the problem here is less that people will be forced into a situation where they are a captive servant, but more that they would be forced to participate in weird BDSM style sexual shenanigans.

you're entitled to ftb yo

[Jherlen]

I've always suspected that the problem here is less that people will be forced into a situation where they are a captive servant, but more that they would be forced to participate in weird BDSM style sexual shenanigans.

I'd hope that any character with the IC clout to take and own slaves (we're talking, mainly, templars and nobles here) would be well versed with the rules around ooc consent and not forcing someone to roleplay situations they weren't comfortable with. After all most slaves, ICly, aren't sex slaves, and a templar or noble who was enslaving commoners for those purposes would be ridiculed (at the least) in Allanak, and probably have even worse happen in Tuluk because of the whole no-touchy rules between Chosen and commoners.

[LauraMars]

I've always suspected that the problem here is less that people will be forced into a situation where they are a captive servant, but more that they would be forced to participate in weird BDSM style sexual shenanigans.

Pretty sure "help consent" rules the possibility of that out completely - but maybe staff don't want to have to arbitrate consent complaints, and they're more frequent when slave roles are a possibility?  But I find that pretty difficult to believe.

I've always been a little sad that slave roles are no longer allowed. My longest lived character was a slave who was enslaved under IC circumstances.  59 DAYS PLAYED!  Of course, she wasn't a "typical" case, didn't resemble a slave much at all by the time her story was over (one and a half real life years later), and it isn't really fair of me to bring her up as an example; but I have a soft spot for slave roles because of that character.

I'm not sure I'd want to play a slave again, since I've already "done" that in Armageddon.  It's also a very, very tough role to play - the isolation can be extreme if you aren't allowed a ton of freedom, and cause you as a player to go a little nuts.  I dunno, though - the fact that the option no longer exists feels a bit limiting. I feel like under special, case-by-case circumstances, in-game slavery could be appropriate and allowed.  I understand staff don't necessarily want to have to deal with the extra work of making judgement calls each time slavery comes up - but does it really come up that often?

[Kronibas]

Does anyone remember Murk?

Murk was a Kadian mul who was a slave but also a leadership character.  Because he had ICly proven his trust, he was allowed a lot of freedom and really added a lot to the clan.

I don't see what's really wrong with a role like that, just like with Byn muls.  Murk did not require supervision, he played a believable slave character, he added a ton to the clan in ways most PCs don't, and, well, he just kicked a lot of ass.

It was probably like ten years ago or something when I played a slave.  Even though I was friends with the Borsail noble, it got old because there weren't many players.  I think the best slaves would be in clans with lots of PCs, and maybe not noble houses, even though they own a ton of them.

If you have a slave that can keep busy during periods of inactivity... doing, ummm, stuff like crafting or whatever else, then that's even better.

[ShaLeah]

I've always suspected that the problem here is less that people will be forced into a situation where they are a captive servant, but more that they would be forced to participate in weird BDSM style sexual shenanigans.

That's kind of disappointing.


I'd guess SEX SLAVES would be the least common slave roleplay requested.

My guess is that the slavery role is a) boring (for those who don't really like solo rp) most of the time since it's dependent on your master's usage of you which b) leads to a whole bunch of slaves wanting "freedom". 

The problem is that the word slave takes away the realization that it's just a lifer role. You want to be there and just like any lifer clan role, you're gonna have days you wanna claw your eyes out from boredom or having to roleplay with a master you can't stand. The issue is the allure of the role far outweighs the necessity for this mentality to be the primary understanding of this possible character.

I think that's easily fixed by:

a) Making it a karma option.
b) Having detailed documents for slavery who does NOT want to flee.

[ClanAlt123]

Aside from not being entirely in control of it....

What exactly is the difference between lifesworn clan members and slaves?

[X-D]

Nothing....oh wait..slaves have greater value.

[Jherlen]

Slaves are property, and so can't really own property themselves. Anything they use can be given and taken away at a whim by their master. They also usually have less places they're free to go on their own, and can't really fall in love or settle down with somebody. A really sadistic or micromanaging noble/templar might do the same with their lifesworn employees, but I imagine all those restrictions are far less common for commoner lifesworn people vs. slaves.

[FreeRangeVestric]

...A really sadistic or micromanaging noble/templar...

So...A noble/templar? 

Joking aside, there is quite a variety of differences between slaves and lifesworn employees. One major one being that while slaves have service ingrained in them from birth, lifesworn employees have room to be (at least more so than a slave) sort of punch-clock servants, who have a life outside their work. A slave trained from birth might have almost nothing in the way of a personal identity. A lifesworn employee could get time off and go to a tavern, buy an apartment, wander the markets, smoke spice, etc. It's hard for me to imagine a slave doing any of that.

[Omn]

I played a slave-type role for the last year and half in another game. It was really difficult - it's hard when you have a little space to maneuver socially because of your status, and that tends to restrict your circle of individuals to roleplay with. From what I've heard of why slaves were closed previously, it wasn't viable because there was more effort put into sussing out slave characters who stored or had issues in play. I'm not sure that staff can make documentation which would cause less storing: it's really down to the master and slave players to make it fun for themselves. It requires a lot of energy on both side to keep it up.

That being said, without slave PCs being played slaves don't really seem to be as big in play as they are in the setting documentation, which I think is a shame. Someone mentioned making slaves a karma role - maybe the master role should have a certain minimum requirement of a karma as well. Maybe either would be best requiring a special application.

An idea of how to keep slaves more engaged: give them reasons to interact with one another. Maybe there's a communal space where they have to spend a portion of their time doing something tedious for His Shadow/Light. Maybe they're all innately spies for the city-states. So forth.

Count me pro-slaves.

[ClanAlt123]

I seem to remember reading something about slaves even being higher-up on the social ladder compared to commoners in most cases. Even that slaves were treated far better than most commoners, depending on their purpose.

I did a report on Aztec slavery in high school, and the whole time I couldn't help but think how Zalanthan it sounded, at least compared to European slavery in the setting. Especially if tweaked a bit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_slavery

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'm way pro slave.

The reasoning behind slaves being taken out of the game never sat well with me. I'm not staff, have never been staff, and I don't have the behind-the-scene look they do, but from my end, it's always been a simple solution to a simple situation. Establish acceptable slave roles in clans that allow players to have fun, ie: fighters in military clans (Kurac, Tor, Byn, GMH hunting divisions), aides in non-military clans (Fale, Borsail, Militias).

If someone who plays a slave wants to retire, I don't see how that would be an issue. Otherwise, inform that player of the restrictions of the role in clear-cut documentation, and let them do it.

BTW, barring very few exceptions, slavery is the only way you should be able to play a mul. Playing a free mul should be a special application. And I love muls. But I love them the most in an appropriate setting, which is slavery.

[Omn]

One of the huge benefits of playing a slave character is that if you're playing for someone of influence who is playing politics, you very well may be the only person they can truly trust to keep a secret, or to be entirely loyal (if that's the relationship you have built). You could be entrusted important tasks, and are likely to either be overlooked when accomplishing said tasks, or wield a very moderate amount of sway when acting in the name of your master.

I see it as likely being a very interesting position to view the game in - possibly one more 'clued in' and engaged at a level most commoner PCs might not be.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'd also note that escaping slavery should be a potentially karma-reducing thing. Playing a slave should be the same as playing a life-sworn freeman, but with more expectation as far as loyalty and role-playing fortitude. Escape should be something that you AND your clan staff agrees makes sense for the situation, and not just a whim. Failure to coordinate with staff on such a choice should invoke karma or trust reduction towards your account.

The slaves that people should be allowed to play are the roles that have transcended the menial labor roles most slaves IC are entrenched in. They should be the upper crust of slaves, and as such, privy to both more involvement (player excitement), more trust (having 'cool shit'), and conversely, more loyalty (murder, betrayal and all that still applies, but it should require some serious event to invoke it).

[Omn]

To add, I think that it might be fair if people play a slave role and it's just not cutting it for them, they can store with no big. If they wanted to play another slave role they would have to make a strong case for why they'd be invested in to stick to it.

Because I suppose that's the roughest part: people who have the interest in investing in a slave PC could get burned out after two or three get bored. It'd be sad to lose people who were willing to take it on.

[Eurynomos]

We had a slave role app in the last few months.IIRC, we put up the app in part because of GDB griping about no slave roles. We got one application, and it was from someone who played a slave role previously.

Just sayin'. ( by just sayin I mean those are the raw metrics. I can't really speak to the "why" verbosely at the moment).

[HavokBlue]

Edit: nevermind I'm an idiot

[Welda]

We had a slave role app in the last few months.IIRC, we put up the app in part because of GDB griping about no slave roles. We got one application, and it was from someone who played a slave role previously.

Just sayin'. ( by just sayin I mean those are the raw metrics. I can't really speak to the "why" verbosely at the moment).

Eurynomos is right.

To give you full story: After a handful of "I want to be a mul-slave" requests and years-long-talks about how slaves are cool on GDB, we made a role call for a mul slave in AoD. We didn't get a single app, but we got complaints it's not fair that the role is only for high-karma race. We changed it to "any race" then... and got two apps, where one was for a secret magicker (normal slave would be too boring).

The main problem with slaves is that the role is very limiting for a player and that other players often aren't sure how to react to the slave. There were some greatly played slaves in the past. But there were also many poorly played, complaining to staff about boredom or/and their masters, playing unrealistically or expecting unrealistic treatment etc.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

We had a slave role app in the last few months.IIRC, we put up the app in part because of GDB griping about no slave roles. We got one application, and it was from someone who played a slave role previously.

Just sayin'. ( by just sayin I mean those are the raw metrics. I can't really speak to the "why" verbosely at the moment).

I seriously thought about apping for it, too. Unfortunately, I'm playing a character I can't bear to store. But slave roles should be open most of the time. I'd say a single such role in each clan appropriate for such a role would work fine.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Sorry, didn't read your post, Welda.

Here's a question, though. If I apped for a slave, today, in the Legion, assuming the Legion was a fine place for a slave, would I be approved?

Because while I understand not wanting to play something right this moment, what I don't understand is not having the option available to me without some sort of special consideration.

[Welda]

I am sorry, but it would always require some sort of special consideration simply because we need to take a lot of things in account to approve/decline a slave role - things like "Are there enough PCs in the clan atm, so the slave won't be bored?", "What kind of PCs is in the clan now, are there strong leaders who know how to deal with a slave?", "Is there enough of What-To-Do for a slave?" etc. That's why we prefer "a role call" for slave roles and otherwise keep them closed.

That said, if you badly want to play a slave, you could always submit a Clan Related request with your character concept.

[Bushranger]

I was one of the people who placed a gripe on the GDB about there being no slave roles announced on the GDB. I was told that for the last few years staff had been able to open up calls for slaves but had not done so until that specific call. I was really happy to see it. Given these are roles that staff have said are only available when a call is made I had hoped there would be more interest so we could see a call or two for such roles every year instead of having only on one call in three years. I am disappointed it was not met with greater enthusiasm.

On the other hand I was playing not only my longest lived character but one of the most enjoyable I have ever played. I was not going to store that for any role staff put out a call for*

I also know staff have said they don't want people to ask if a special application idea they had in mind was feasible or not before they apply for it. Does that include people with the karma to apply, or make a special application, for Muls or can we make a request to the staff overseeing organizations that would purchase Mul slaves and ask if they have an opening for such a role when we're between characters? If not I hope it's not another three years till we see another call from staff for a Mul slave (unless my current character lives that long!)

EDIT: As my question is asked and answered by the time I write this post. Thank-you Welda

* Maybe a call for Tektolnes' bastard son would have tempted me - he would have the biggest trust fund in Nenyuks!

[Kronibas]

Put up a role request for a badass leader-slave mul who can lead training, recruit for their clan, and has been background-wise bred and trained for absolute loyalty and devotion and see if the role stays open long.  If something like that isn't filled, then 7DV's idea about having an open list of roles outside the Staff Announcements might be cool.  If it's left open then an even more awesome player for that role might drift through outside of some sort of time slot.

Some slave roles are probably way more appealing than others.  Another three words for y'all:  "the yellow mul"

Davaz.  Or Dgal. Shit, one of those.  I know there have been some other Kuraci slave muls since then that have kicked ass, but I remember as a teenager just starting playing, this Kuraci slave would do stuff like discipline naughty Fist members and walk into the bar with a sack full of gith heads. 

I saw that character in the late 90's, and in my current description, I have a very subtle allusion to a sentence in his main description.  Imms -- see if you can spot it.  Keep in mind that it was like fourteen years ago when I read this slave character's main description. 1999.  That slave character obviously left a strong impression.

[X-D]

I had the same question as 7...plus two comments...first...though i did not gripe, i did ask if it need be mul...not because of high karma level...just i don't like playing muls:)
I also always wonder why the form of slavery everybody always thinks about...or at least comments about is the type least common historically ?  I mean entire countries have been enslaved in the past...you think there was collarsand chains and such on them? or that they wete raised to be slaves? Would it not make sense to have these other forms aloud in game?

[Welda]

I think your chances to actually get a slave role are higher if...:

• ... you apply in answer to a role call.*


• ... you proved in the past you are able to stick with roles even if times are slow.
• ... you apply for a role in a big organisation (not a slave to a single person).
• ... you apply for a race which is available for you without special application.
• ... you proved in the past you understand social hierarchy and cultural norms of Zalanthas.
• ... you apply for a mundane character. Seriously.
• ... you apply for a regular slave. Special snowflakes always have it harder.

* I know this might be tricky if there's one role call in three years.

[Welda]

I had the same question as 7...plus two comments...first...though i did not gripe, i did ask if it need be mul...not because of high karma level...just i don't like playing muls:)

Yes. We changed that. It didn't really help. Actually, it didn't help at all.

Seriously, I would be more than willing to make this kind of calls more often - but if the result is one single app, it doesn't seem worth the time.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Welda, that's fair.

Here's what I'm saying, though, and no, this is not in dismissal of your current position.

Instead of worrying about special consideration of any sort, how about unnanomously stating that slave roles are open in clan x, y, z, and b at all times, via special application? I worked up a fake help file to explain it in game terms.

Slavery                                                                  (World)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   A great number of Zalanthas's population are slaves. Most of these slaves are
unskilled, serving in menial tasks such as mining, construction, transportation,
and other general labor. There are a select few who have been trained otherwise,
however. Some are taught the ways of war, and serve as militia and soldiers.
Others are taught to be servants to the upper classes, and function as aides and
companions.

   You may use the special application process to apply for a skilled slave role
at any time in the following clans: Arm of the Dragon, Byn, Kurac, Salarr,
Kadius, The Legion, Winrothol, Lyskae.

   In most cases, only one slave role is open per clan at any time. It is
important to know what is expected of you as the player of a slave. Even if the
slave's race is not a karma required race, being accepted for the role of a
skilled slave should carry with it the high expections we have for our more
trusted players. Some of these expectations are as follows.
   1. Slaves shall not escape without clan staff agreeing that there is a good
      reason to do so. Petty reasons that appear to be out of character will not
      be looked upon kindly, nor given permission, in most cases. Escaping
      without staff approval will likely result in account-based discipline.
   2. During slow times in your clan's playerbase, you are expected to continue
      to act in character. You may speak to your clan staff about issues, but
      should expect little consideration for out of character solutions, aside
      from storing. They will work with you to create in character solutions as
      need be.
   3. Understand that the role of a slave is one of restricted privilge. While
      you might know more secrets than the common freeman in your clan, you might
      not have access to the shiny new sword he has. While you might be the
      greatest fighter in the clan, you might never be promoted or achknowledged.
      The role of a slave is usually the role of a tool. You must be comfortable
      with being used as a tool is used.

See also:
   Mulish Roleplay      Clans      My House is your hous ... joking.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Davaz.

Yup. My first character learned under him. His portrayal of that character really shaped mullish roleplay for me. Obviously, all muls are different, but understanding what a loyal slave was was important to my understanding of the role at all.

Not all slaves are muls, but all skilled slaves have that undying loyalty ingrained into them, and only the very rarest circumstances should undermine such a wash of the mind.

[path]

I would so love to play a slaver.

That would be the most fun ever.

I checked.

[Flincher]

Slaves already seem to exist. I was in a noble house as an 'aide' for a while. I had to do everything I was told like a slave, I was punished like a slave, I was treated by a slave then after about 13 days of playtime I wanted to leave the service of the noble house and I was executed like an escaped slave. In fact this happened with two seperate houses. One merchant and one noble.

Therefore if a pc would get executed for quitting or being fired by a house they are as good as a slave. The difference was in the title I guess.

On the other hand I would love to play a simple legitimate slave. Obviously I'd want enough freedom to move around Allanak but still be in service to a house of some sort. Be treated like a slave and look like a slave. I'm not interested in Muls. I'd also perfer slavery to execution for 90% of my characters that have been killed because there was no slave alternative.

[ShaLeah]

I'd also perfer slavery to execution for 90% of my characters that have been killed because there was no slave alternative.

I'd love to see this as a viable option. Knowing you can end up a slave when I first played made for a LOT less relaxed interactions between common and nobility. Even though that's still the case virtually, we are protected by non-virtual limitations and it's evident in game in a huge, HUGE way.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Slaves already seem to exist. I was in a noble house as an 'aide' for a while. I had to do everything I was told like a slave, I was punished like a slave, I was treated by a slave then after about 13 days of playtime I wanted to leave the service of the noble house and I was executed like an escaped slave. In fact this happened with two seperate houses. One merchant and one noble.

Therefore if a pc would get executed for quitting or being fired by a house they are as good as a slave. The difference was in the title I guess.

The only way this should have ever happened is if y ou were lifesworn.

[Zoltan]

Slaves already seem to exist. I was in a noble house as an 'aide' for a while. I had to do everything I was told like a slave, I was punished like a slave, I was treated by a slave then after about 13 days of playtime I wanted to leave the service of the noble house and I was executed like an escaped slave. In fact this happened with two seperate houses. One merchant and one noble.

Therefore if a pc would get executed for quitting or being fired by a house they are as good as a slave. The difference was in the title I guess.

The only way this should have ever happened is if y ou were lifesworn.

There are many reasons to kill someone, whether lifesworn or no. Such is the privilege of power.

As for slavery roles, the only thing I can add is that playing someone -in charge- of a slave can be pretty difficult, too. There's a bit of a burden there that doesn't exist when you're leading a bunch of joe-schmoe PCs. I totally understand the staff's present stance on those roles.

I get this feeling that a lot of the slavery roles being pined for here are in the vein of "I'd be a slave, but: I'd have a long leash... I'd have cool stuff... I'd have special privilege/responsibility/ability..." Then again, on the other hand, it'd be nice to have an avenue for mul roleplay that isn't 100% "I'm an escaped mul."

Also, there is a huge difference between lifesworn and slavery, and I can't believe it hasn't been brought up yet. Lifesworn is a status your character attains and assents to. You have to rise to a position like that, even if it's only a little ways. A slave has no choice in the matter.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I kinda think that this difference was brought up. A slave is automatically life sworn. I didn't really think that had to be clarified.

As far as the owner of a house slave goes, simple guidelines for each clan's slave role really should be sufficient.

[Flincher]

Slaves already seem to exist. I was in a noble house as an 'aide' for a while. I had to do everything I was told like a slave, I was punished like a slave, I was treated by a slave then after about 13 days of playtime I wanted to leave the service of the noble house and I was executed like an escaped slave. In fact this happened with two seperate houses. One merchant and one noble.

Therefore if a pc would get executed for quitting or being fired by a house they are as good as a slave. The difference was in the title I guess.

The only way this should have ever happened is if y ou were lifesworn.

I was 100% not lifesworn in either case. I was actually on my 'trail' period for one, I guess the trial was to decide whether I will continue to work for the house or get executed rather than fired.

[ShaLeah]

Slaves already seem to exist. I was in a noble house as an 'aide' for a while. I had to do everything I was told like a slave, I was punished like a slave, I was treated by a slave then after about 13 days of playtime I wanted to leave the service of the noble house and I was executed like an escaped slave. In fact this happened with two seperate houses. One merchant and one noble.

Therefore if a pc would get executed for quitting or being fired by a house they are as good as a slave. The difference was in the title I guess.

The only way this should have ever happened is if y ou were lifesworn.

I was 100% not lifesworn in either case. I was actually on my 'trail' period for one, I guess the trial was to decide whether I will continue to work for the house or get executed rather than fired.

Working for any entity except for the Byn (Noble, GMH, Legions, AoD) is a very serious undertaking. This ain't McDonald's where you're hired for minimum wage. On Zalanthas associating with those entities is a matter of life and death. Ten years back you almost HAD to, nowadays you don't at all, and if you want to be codedly rich? Don't.

It is in some (modern day) way a form of voluntary slavery.  Piss them off and prove yourself unworthy within that first year, piss off someone who's in good with them even, and you won't be turning in that cloak mister, they'll be taking it off your dead corpse.

Zoltan is right, you work your way to lifesworn, that's most definitely a voluntary commitment. Not taken lightly, it's your one chance to get the fuck out of dodge.

Now slavery... you're born into it, trained into it, bred to eat, shit, sleep, fuck it and like it. To be proud of what you are, to WANT to serve, to want nothing more than to be a shiny example of your master's finest stock. It's not at all like the slavery we survived modern day but it -is- dependent on how good you do and how good you're treated. There's only so much abuse a sentient being can take. If your masters suck, you're going to wanna bolt eventually. Or if you're broken like those abominations muls who psychologically can end up snapping the fuck out.

I like that you can't play a mul now unless you're escaped and hence hunted from the get, gets that adrenaline pumping.

Bottom line is the role of slave (which I am a huge advocate to keep as a playable, karma earned possibility) failed in the past to the point it became an annoyance. Staff seems unwilling to take the chance at having that as an option on a global scale and that makes a few of us sad in our feelings place.

I'd settle for an official position above the 'Sure we do, occasionally'.  A 'stop your whining we ain't gonna do it', a 'alright already, we give!' or a 'STFU we'll THINK about it' would be lovely.

[Twilight]

I don't see my perspective touched on anywhere, so here it is.  If I had my way...

The availability of slave roles would be entirely or mostly (if staff had a real need) player driven.  If you are a Kuraci/Legions/Byn Sarge or other leader, and feel up to it, you would suggest to your staff that you want to purchase a slave for the organization.  Or if you are a templar/noble/GMH family and were willing to, buy a slave to be your aide.  Coordinate with your local despot's slaving house for the actual purchase, resulting in role call on the boards from the clan imms.  It sounds like a nice plot to get the actual slave, as well as the rp from the dynamic after the purchase.

I think the staff's answer to this currently and in recent years would be that slave roles would be opened up when staff deems them necessary for the game.  The only change I can see that would need to be made is for staff to change their policy to: Yes if you are in a position to realistically buy a slave, you can pursue this through IC means.  At the end of that, if you succeed, depending on player demand for the role you may end up with a PC slave, NPC slave or virtual slave.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I think many problems have been attributed to the slave's master. For this reason, I think slaves should probably only be playable as House slaves, who might be overseen by a PC, but who still have a role if that PC master passes on to the great Vestric Orbital in the sky.

[Fragmented]

Having played a slave role years ago and, admittedly, played it horribly since I was still relatively new to the game, I can say a couple of things about being a slave:

It can be freaking awesome, if the master is awesome. It can also suck, if the master sucks or simply isn't around. So I fully agree with the 'House Slave' notion.

Secondly, I see a great deal of concern about if a slave escapes and to that I say, so what? Right now we have an organization that was flat out described as being
tasked with capturing escaped slaves: The Amber Wyverns. If someone wants to escape, let em. I figure this would mean more fun for everyone around. Joe the Slave
tried to escape? Gear up boys, we're going on a hunt. There are enormous amounts of coin floating around the game at the moment - spread it around. Put a bounty
out on said slave. Make their life hard to where death is inevitable. Maybe I'm peering through rose-tinted glasses, but I see this game becoming tighter and tighter
over the years on control over what can and cannot be done - and I understand the purpose is to keep the 'flavor' of the game safe from some idiot who's going to
try and run away from a life of silk-clad, well fed comfort to try and become a sorcerer or something. This is a game however and people don't -want- silk clad comfort
99% of the time. They also don't want to be locked into a room and let out for an hour of play twice a week when they can meet up with their 'Master'. Maybe the T'zai
Byn needs more to do then gathering raw materials, since we obviously don't have room or resources for a war every week. Slave hunters to the task.

[Narf]

Having played a slave role years ago and, admittedly, played it horribly since I was still relatively new to the game, I can say a couple of things about being a slave:

It can be freaking awesome, if the master is awesome. It can also suck, if the master sucks or simply isn't around. So I fully agree with the 'House Slave' notion.

Secondly, I see a great deal of concern about if a slave escapes and to that I say, so what? Right now we have an organization that was flat out described as being
tasked with capturing escaped slaves: The Amber Wyverns. If someone wants to escape, let em. I figure this would mean more fun for everyone around. Joe the Slave
tried to escape? Gear up boys, we're going on a hunt. There are enormous amounts of coin floating around the game at the moment - spread it around. Put a bounty
out on said slave. Make their life hard to where death is inevitable. Maybe I'm peering through rose-tinted glasses, but I see this game becoming tighter and tighter
over the years on control over what can and cannot be done - and I understand the purpose is to keep the 'flavor' of the game safe from some idiot who's going to
try and run away from a life of silk-clad, well fed comfort to try and become a sorcerer or something. This is a game however and people don't -want- silk clad comfort
99% of the time. They also don't want to be locked into a room and let out for an hour of play twice a week when they can meet up with their 'Master'. Maybe the T'zai
Byn needs more to do then gathering raw materials, since we obviously don't have room or resources for a war every week. Slave hunters to the task.

The problem with escaped slaves is that it is far easier to escape OOCly than it would be ICly. Remember: there are no coded manacles, the slave master probably won't have access to the accusation code (and may need the slave present to use it), differing playtimes between hunter and hunted can make capture nearly impossible, and the ease of moving to a place outside the Wyvern jurisdiction is ridiculous compared to real world slavery situations. Slaves during the civil war had to establish a massive network to ferry each other to the north. In Zalanthas you just have to go on an afternoon stroll.

Because there's no code in place to put realistic restraints on slaves, it would have to be up to the PC to roleplay them which is why I think people are suggesting slave roles where a PC wouldn't reasonably try to escape. It gets around the code issues.

[Eurynomos]

Also, while the Amber Wyverns could be tasked with capturing a slave, their main function is capturing exotic beasts for use in the Arena and elsewhere.

Just to dispel the notion that this is the Amber Wyverns primary function. Beast master would be a closer title than True Slaver.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

That's only because PC slavery is on hold if I remember right. Or was that the Crimson Wyverns?

[Jherlen]

I tend to view it that Borsail has other (virtual) crews that go around raiding and pressing people into slavery, but the specific Amber Wyverns that PCs play focus on the beast-capture aspects.

[Barsook]

I tend to view it that Borsail has other (virtual) crews that go around raiding and pressing people into slavery, but the specific Amber Wyverns that PCs play focus on the beast-capture aspects.

I think they do have different crews within the House.

[Morrolan]

Don't want to be killed in Armageddon? Don't put yourself in "get killed" situations.

Yeah, don't leave the gates.

Don't want to get slaved in Armageddon. Don't put yourself in "get slaved" situations.

Yeah, don't stay in the cities.

Or is it the other way around?

[Fragmented]

Also, while the Amber Wyverns could be tasked with capturing a slave, their main function is capturing exotic beasts for use in the Arena and elsewhere.

Just to dispel the notion that this is the Amber Wyverns primary function. Beast master would be a closer title than True Slaver.

I do want to apologize if I came off as sounding like I thought that was the primary function of the Ambers. It says clearly in the first role call for them that
their primary function is to gather beasts for the arena. Just figured if they had a functionality available, might as well put it to use and maybe let the Winrothol
Cavaliers do the same.

[Harmless]

 I had a character once who was executed. If they were enslaved instead... Even if only occasionally used for interesting activity, I would have played them happily at least for a month or two, maybe longer, which is my average runtime per PC anyhow. I would have liked it a lot more as by the time they were executed, they were about 20 days played and had gone through a lot of cool plots. It would have been a great ending to their story and I would have done everything asked following consent rules.

I know it's most likely the case that ICly the captors of my PC had no interest in enslaving them. That's fine. But I would have enjoyed my execution a little more if I knew that the captors at least had an option of enslaving me. It would have made the sting of execution even more sweet. In that situation, I asked for slavery and asked to be kept alive under any circumstance, but it was denied. I felt a little bored at thinking that the decision to execute was forced by an OOC policy that goes against the setting.

I would like to see the policy of forced storage when enslaved totally revoked. If you're unhappy with your slavery, then request storage.

I didn't app for the slave role because I don't understand the mindset of a born slave. If I am going to RP a slave, I want to get into the groove of the role manually. I want to know from experience what my character was like before being enslaved, then uncover the differences by trial and error. I barely understand how to roleplay a free person in Zalanthas, so diving into the slave role is as intimidating as diving into a noble role. This is why I don't app for either noble or slave roles.

You'll see more apps for slave roles if you give more people the chance to get into the groove from scratch. Maybe you should implement enslavement but allow a pressure valve, an easy escape route in case the victim change their mind. "Soft" slavery might mean the slavers are incompetent, don't really keep track of their slaves well and have a high escape rate. Then, later, the active slaving clans can be more hardcore, with more definitive consequences for escapes. Start out the community with easy slave roles, then as we get better we'll feel up to the task of working under the most dire of slavers in Allanak's noble houses.

In seeing that only prior slave RPers apped for your role call might serve as evidence that your pbase needs a leg up in this role.

Just my two cents. Disclaimer: i know my language above is a bit confrontational and commanding, please don't read it as such. I have a headache at the moment, have only a few minutes to post, and don't have the time to clean it up. I love this game and this setting and have no strong issues with it as is, but this would be something I would love to see happen. Whatever everyone decides I will keep playing and supporting it.

I can also think of lots of ways to be the change that don't require staff changes. Desertman made excellent suggestions in the RAT thread that gave me ideas for things to do. Currently I can say with confidence that if I am able to achieve some of them in game I would do so without hesitation,

[evilcabbage]

I think I was too late to app in for this role, actually. Otherwise, I "might" have.

[Flincher]

There was one situation where my character pissed off a noble and was going to be given to an in game organization as a gift slave. I ended up executed an hour later and I'm 99% sure its because it was slavery and the staff made them kill me. The thing is I wasn't asked about how I felt with the situation. I was very happy and excited to to live and do this sort of rp.

[Eurynomos]

There was one situation where my character pissed off a noble and was going to be given to an in game organization as a gift slave. I ended up executed an hour later and I'm 99% sure its because it was slavery and the staff made them kill me. The thing is I wasn't asked about how I felt with the situation. I was very happy and excited to to live and do this sort of rp.

Hmm. That sounds pretty speculative. We don't really make people kill other people. We enjoy doing that ourselves.

[Harmless]

Yeah... that they told you you were going to be a gift slave kind of confirms to me that they never intended to do that at all.

Never underestimate the cruelty of our playerbase... we are the worst of us all.

[Zoan]

*I am the worst of us all.