Tuluk's Shadow Artists: Now With More Flavor

[Nyr]

I don't like Tuluk. Let's get this straight. I'll never use this system, probably, ever. I avoid being based in Tuluk like I avoid drunk drivers.

With that said, this whole idea sounds cool as hell. If it fails, tweak it, because it's Fing cool. Tuluk has always been painted as a place of artists. This seriously makes that a forefront. It also gives Tuluk a hyper-communist feel, which to me, fits right in with that place. I don't know that I liked the Templar Orders disappearing, but at the same time, I do - just don't make them Allanaki Templars (because that's blasphemy) because the stuff that Tuluki Templars are known for makes them Tuluki Templars. If anything, tone them down, don't tone them out.

But this isn't about them. It's about the Shadow Artists. And yeah, I think this whole thing really fits in with Tuluk as a whole. Making the system more ritualized and public in terms of its existence is the right thing to do.

And gawddam, I don't think I've ever seen a staff member be so apparent. It works wonders in terms of feeling like the odd gap between staff and players doesn't exist. I also think it's the right thing to do, so congrats Nyr. Congrats on both your willingness to speak to the players about this huge thing, and your work in implementing everything you have to get this shift headed in the right direction.

I dig it.

Thanks, I appreciate it, even if you don't like Tuluk

[Law&Order]

An artists rank has nothing to do with there actual skill levels. I've had Artists with midling skill levels do Master level work. It's realy about Rp, planning, creativity, and not getting caught. Granted, coded skills help you not get caught. But there is always more then one way of doing things, and usually, the one that's 100% hard coded, is the most unsafe.

Sure, in the previous system...but you gotta have the skills to get paid in this new one.  Until there's sub-contracting and less code specific Artistry worked out in these contract docs, that's how it kind of looks.

[Fredd]

There's already more then a couple places to go to be trained in the shadow arts. I wont say more. You can find them ICly if you look.

[Nyr]

Based on feedback here, I for one have seen some people (hyzenhok) that have pointed out the advantages afforded to those that might choose to play criminal criminals--that is, criminals that do not want to stay inside the happy little box that Tuluk has constructed for them.  Jherlen and maybe a couple of others (sorry if I don't remember your names) have pointed out that they really want to have the opportunity to do other criminal work.  Even if all we do is define that there might be an unspoken black-market-style, off-the-books sort of "crime" out there--the kind that would get stamped out, punished severely, or monitored closely, depending on climate--it opens the door for some consideration that may not have occurred before.

Nyr, an important question here is: Does Tuluk have more unlicensed crimes, than licensed and registered shadow art work? If it does have more unlicensed crime I would think things wouldn't be so 'happy' in Tuluk since its traditions have not caught on to a large extent.

Are you saying PC-wise or virtually?  If you mean PC-wise should I include Tuluki newbies that suicide on guards or that like to spamsteal their way around the city like it's  snatch-n-grab sorta MUD?  

Consequently, if criminal criminals make up a larger group than licensed shadow artists and agents, the average Tuluki won't care as much about the bullshit laws that the few of higher status -appear- to follow. And they would appear to follow them if they want to keep the caste structure in place.

I guess you mean virtually.  Given that this is tradition and law and enforced by the templarate, I would think that the majority work within that system.  The minority probably couldn't or shouldn't be disclosed except as an estimate if/when that comes up.

[Nyr]

I don't like that Artists are not allowed to refuse contracts. I don't like that they can't refuse contracts even if they are employed and life sworn to there employer.

So, for example. I have a nice Kassigargh Noble. I find myself a good artist, and help him grow up to be very skilled, in secret. For my own use. I offer them a life oath, and they take it.
How the doc's are written, a templar can then contract my Artist to kill my own aide, and they cannot refuse, even though they are sworn to my house for there life.

No, they can't contract your artist to kill your own aide unless your artist is a Master, in which case it's your own fault as you took that risk.  If you have lifesworn them, hopefully you've discussed something like "you swear your life to the House and that means you do NOT ever become a master artist or I will slit your throat myself...and then have your family eliminated by artists that are more loyal than you."

[Nyr]

I wonder if now is the time to address my concern that it sounds like all it takes is a furious skill grind to rise up quickly in social status as a Shadow Artist, whereas everyone else in every walk of life be they bards, artists, social peons would take ten times longer to achieve the same social rank and caste.  I'm hoping there's much more to the elevation in status than "Wow, that guy can one hit backstab people!" because that would be seriously very shitty to the Seeker Konviwedu who has been around a couple years, performing at every "contest" and roleplaying their ass off.

Yes, we put all of this work into a system based around roleplay just to automatically raise people in rank based on their skill levels. 

[Fredd]

An artists rank has nothing to do with there actual skill levels. I've had Artists with midling skill levels do Master level work. It's realy about Rp, planning, creativity, and not getting caught. Granted, coded skills help you not get caught. But there is always more then one way of doing things, and usually, the one that's 100% hard coded, is the most unsafe.

Sure, in the previous system...but you gotta have the skills to get paid in this new one.  Until there's sub-contracting and less code specific Artistry worked out in these contract docs, that's how it kind of looks.

From what I read, and Nyr please tell me if I'm wrong or not here, Gaining your ranks as an artist in the new system will be much like the last system. Your rank is essentially trust. You earn trust by taking and completing work successfully. And while hard coded skills will always help, they aren't the end all be all.

IE:

You get contracted to steal Corporal Amos of House Dasari's house guard's prized dagger.

A normal artist might pick it off his belt.

A master might follow them, learn that they are having a secret affair with someone, follow them to there place, take the dagger while they are having sex, and leave a much cheaper dagger in it's place. Leaving the person to suspect the person they are having an affair with of foul play.


Creativity is what makes a Master, not hard coded skills.

[Molten Heart]

The greatest obstacle to the whole "Shadow Artist System" is the unavailability or lack of capable shadow artists.  In a system where failure is the only way to learn and failure is illegal.... that seems to be a problem.  If there were some system or organization that helped to cultivate and develop young shadow artist talent, I Think that alone would go a long way to helping develop the art of crime in Tuluk.  The documentation is great and people can argue about the finer details of the organization until they are blue int he face, but if the role of the shadow artist is too difficult and/or unrewarding, people just won't play those roles.

Providing that training/cultivation in a non-cheesy way should be a goal in the city as a whole, and we'll see what we can do to make that more of a reality.

I hope staff would consider not just IC solutions but also game world design solutions.

[Molten Heart]

The greatest obstacle to the whole "Shadow Artist System" is the unavailability or lack of capable shadow artists.  In a system where failure is the only way to learn and failure is illegal.... that seems to be a problem.  If there were some system or organization that helped to cultivate and develop young shadow artist talent, I Think that alone would go a long way to helping develop the art of crime in Tuluk.  The documentation is great and people can argue about the finer details of the organization until they are blue int he face, but if the role of the shadow artist is too difficult and/or unrewarding, people just won't play those roles.

Providing that training/cultivation in a non-cheesy way should be a goal in the city as a whole, and we'll see what we can do to make that more of a reality.

I suggest the Malik Fizz School of Gardening and Etiquette.

Personal I'm having visions of a Tuluki version of the Loyal (secret?) Order of the Water Buffalo, but that's probably too cheesy.

[Fredd]

I don't like that Artists are not allowed to refuse contracts. I don't like that they can't refuse contracts even if they are employed and life sworn to there employer.

So, for example. I have a nice Kassigargh Noble. I find myself a good artist, and help him grow up to be very skilled, in secret. For my own use. I offer them a life oath, and they take it.
How the doc's are written, a templar can then contract my Artist to kill my own aide, and they cannot refuse, even though they are sworn to my house for there life.

No, they can't contract your artist to kill your own aide unless your artist is a Master, in which case it's your own fault as you took that risk.  If you have lifesworn them, hopefully you've discussed something like "you swear your life to the House and that means you do NOT ever become a master artist or I will slit your throat myself...and then have your family eliminated by artists that are more loyal than you."

See, and that's what I feel is contrary to the feel of Tuluk. A Tuluki artist should always strive to Master whatever art they practice. This has always been the feel of Tuluk to me. Now it's like "I want you to get really good, but don' become the best. I don't want the best working for me."

[Taven]

This is just a wild guess, but...

I'm pretty sure that very, very few PCs will ever reach the Master level of Shadow Artists. This is comparable to how very few PCs make full Bard, which Nyr compared a little to Shadow Artists. I think it's going to take IC years and years to get to the level of Master Shadow artist, and I suspect you will have had to pull off a lot of challenging jobs.

I would like to see official BETA docs on it, though. Nyr? Can we see those or are they secret/still being decided on?

[Nyr]

It seems more like the artists are more loyal to the templar's, then those that they serve.

They are loyal to the city.  Not the templars.

Like, those are there true employers.

But they aren't.  The system or "the city" is their employer.  It's contract work.

Up until these docs come you, it's considered a great thing for an employer to have a suspected master artist in there employ.

Up until the bardic docs were changed, it was considered marginally impossible for a player to achieve the rank of Masterbard and equally possible for a patron to employ that person directly.  We fixed that by making the former possible and the latter impossible, thereby giving the social status to the individual, their dedication to their organization, and the ability for patrons to engage masterbards on single-use basis as needed.

Patrons, especially Noble patrons, should always have final say on the work there artist does.

We disagree.

They are the one's that feed, water, train, and take responsibility if the Artist's actions come to light.

They definitely do the first few things, but they also would potentially get proceeds from whatever their artist does in the future.  Also if their artist is working on an independent job, I really doubt the patron could be held too accountable for that.

And while it is absolutely fine to say that the Noble should report the artists work to a templar (after all, that's how they know the work was liscensed or not) I don't think the artsists should be under such direct control of the templars.

Well, that's where we'll disagree.

[Nyr]

That being said. I still think Patrons should have final say on there employees Shadow Work. And in all honesty, this gives a very tangible benefit to being an Artist with an actual patron.

Maybe farther down the road, but right now, that's part of the problem.  Until we have deemed that the problem is fixed, we're not going to give patrons unfettered control over what their partisan artists do.

[Nyr]

An artists rank has nothing to do with there actual skill levels. I've had Artists with midling skill levels do Master level work. It's realy about Rp, planning, creativity, and not getting caught. Granted, coded skills help you not get caught. But there is always more then one way of doing things, and usually, the one that's 100% hard coded, is the most unsafe.

Sure, in the previous system...but you gotta have the skills to get paid in this new one.  Until there's sub-contracting and less code specific Artistry worked out in these contract docs, that's how it kind of looks.

You don't need much skill to kill people in the game.

If someone else poisons things for you, you just have to get that into something that will get into the target (that requires roleplay).  After that, depending on the poison and the state of the victim...well, as they say, even a merchant can chop wood, right?

As for stealing, you don't need skill for that either.  You just need access.  Befriend them and go to their apartment, get added to the rent, then take what is needed.  (Is that convoluted just to steal something? Yes, sure, but it's possible, at least.)

As for the mayhem type stuff, you don't need skill for that, either.  Dropping something off and then arranging it requires roleplay (and attention to RP and the local environment).

Does skill help?  Sure it does!  It opens up lots of opportunities.  Is skill everything?  Hardly!  Roleplay is still a large part of things.

[Nyr]

An artists rank has nothing to do with there actual skill levels. I've had Artists with midling skill levels do Master level work. It's realy about Rp, planning, creativity, and not getting caught. Granted, coded skills help you not get caught. But there is always more then one way of doing things, and usually, the one that's 100% hard coded, is the most unsafe.

Sure, in the previous system...but you gotta have the skills to get paid in this new one.  Until there's sub-contracting and less code specific Artistry worked out in these contract docs, that's how it kind of looks.

From what I read, and Nyr please tell me if I'm wrong or not here, Gaining your ranks as an artist in the new system will be much like the last system. Your rank is essentially trust. You earn trust by taking and completing work successfully. And while hard coded skills will always help, they aren't the end all be all.

IE:

You get contracted to steal Corporal Amos of House Dasari's house guard's prized dagger.

A normal artist might pick it off his belt.

A master might follow them, learn that they are having a secret affair with someone, follow them to there place, take the dagger while they are having sex, and leave a much cheaper dagger in it's place. Leaving the person to suspect the person they are having an affair with of foul play.


Creativity is what makes a Master, not hard coded skills.

Definitely.

[Fredd]

.

They are the one's that feed, water, train, and take responsibility if the Artist's actions come to light.

They definitely do the first few things, but they also would potentially get proceeds from whatever their artist does in the future.  Also if their artist is working on an independent job, I really doubt the patron could be held too accountable for that.

Can you honestly say that if there are two competing noble houses, if one of them's artist got caught doing a contract, the other would not use that information against there rival?



As for serving there city. Don't employees of noble houses serve there city by serving there Lords and Ladies? Why is it you are shifting from this idea/mentality? Perhapse it was mentioned on the last eleven pages and I missed it....But could you explain to me why you are making Shadow Artists essentially there own neutral group?

[Nyr]

The greatest obstacle to the whole "Shadow Artist System" is the unavailability or lack of capable shadow artists.  In a system where failure is the only way to learn and failure is illegal.... that seems to be a problem.  If there were some system or organization that helped to cultivate and develop young shadow artist talent, I Think that alone would go a long way to helping develop the art of crime in Tuluk.  The documentation is great and people can argue about the finer details of the organization until they are blue int he face, but if the role of the shadow artist is too difficult and/or unrewarding, people just won't play those roles.

Providing that training/cultivation in a non-cheesy way should be a goal in the city as a whole, and we'll see what we can do to make that more of a reality.

I hope staff would consider not just IC solutions but also game world design solutions.

Given the amount of coded solutions we've been wading in lately, we'd be remiss not to look in that area for this as well.

[Nyr]

See, and that's what I feel is contrary to the feel of Tuluk. A Tuluki artist should always strive to Master whatever art they practice. This has always been the feel of Tuluk to me. Now it's like "I want you to get really good, but don' become the best. I don't want the best working for me."

It's only like that if you are an artist more devoted to a patron than to your art.  If you're truly devoted to your art, ditch the patron or lie to them and hide your rank ascension.

[Nyr]

This is just a wild guess, but...

I'm pretty sure that very, very few PCs will ever reach the Master level of Shadow Artists. This is comparable to how very few PCs make full Bard, which Nyr compared a little to Shadow Artists. I think it's going to take IC years and years to get to the level of Master Shadow artist, and I suspect you will have had to pull off a lot of challenging jobs.

I would like to see official BETA docs on it, though. Nyr? Can we see those or are they secret/still being decided on?

Official beta docs on what, ascension?  Basically a certain amount of quality and quantity (you do good work and you do needed work and you will rise in rank).  Does that need to be spelled out with examples on what's quality work and what is not?  We can do that, sure.  It won't be exactly comparable to bards though because bards have their little nitpicky sort of things like "dance with a shoe on your head in a competition on a Detal" (not exactly, but you get my point), and artists wouldn't have provisions like "lol gotta kill my first Chosen Lurd so i can be a master".

[Sayyadina]

So the current "system" has failed and seemingly needs to be replaced with a new system that is stacked full of mandates to force more use of the new system compared to the current "system."  However, I think this is based on a false assumption that the current "system" isn't working because of a lack of mandates.  I think the current "system" doesn't work because no one knows about it!  I'll bet that the majority of posters in the thread were unaware that templars can currently confidentially broker contracts between an agent and a "shadow artist."  I didn't know until fairly recently.  So is the failure of the current "system" one of design or of implementation?  There are no detailed public documents about the current "system," even.  Of course it won't work.

http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Tuluki%20Roleplay

Law and Order in Tuluk:
Some time ago, a law won the Triumvirate majority for the reinstatement of an old Tuluki custom: licensed thievery and assassination.
Thievery and assassination:
Thieves and assassins (by trade, not coded guild) are required to register with a member of the Templarate prior to conducting theft or an assassination. The templar records this information in the License Registry: the individual's name, description, organization (if any), legal occupation (if any), thief or assassin, the recording templar's name and the record date. (For example: "Jonah, a tall human male with blue eyes and brown hair, knife-maker of House Salarr, registers as assassin, recorded by Faithful Lady Janis, 168th day of the Descending Sun, year 59 of the 20th Age.")

Thieves
A thief is charged a one-time registration fee of 300 obsidian. Registered thieves are still expected to operate with enough wisdom and skill not to get caught; after all, this law is a rebirth of the appreciation of high expertise in Old Tuluk. If a registered thief is caught, however, she may be let off with a warning, or receive a lessened penalty, at the templar's discretion (conscientious PC templars may wish to make this clear to the thief). Needless to say, registered thieves may also receive paying jobs from the templarate.
Assassins
An assassin registers for free, but must purchase a separate "license" for each assassination. A license is not a tangible object, but rather a pledge from the templarate not to act on the findings of an investigation - provided the crime has been committed as recorded, and executed with skill and discretion.

Definitive and in-depth, no, but if you read Tuluki docs, it's there at least.

The docs above are exhibit A in the failure of the current "system."  What the current documentation says is you can steal stuff and kill people if you get a license first and you're discreet about it, and the templarate may pay you to kill people.  That's it.  To me, it's not surprising that an apocryphal system of anonymous brokerage that is beloved and heavily used hasn't sprung up from that foundation.  Why not try out more detailed documentation before going the route of heavy-handed mandates?  We may be able to make a win-win where both those that want more utilization are happy and those that don't want mandates are happy.  Is that not the most desirable outcome?

Now, if the heavy-handed mandates are included because the staff thinks that's the way Tuluk should be, then that's a separate issue and that's fine because they run the game.  They can make 1+1 = 3 in Zalanthas and players will adjust.  But if Tuluk is supposed to be a place of heavy-handed mandates, then will there be a system for patron X to go to the templarate to anonymously compel guards or hunters from other clans to do patron X's work?  Or will patron X be able to go to the templarate to anonymously compel bards to sing particular songs?

IMO "shadow artists" are currently underutilized not because they're refusing jobs or they're overly loyal, but because most players are oblivious and uncertain about what the current "system" is and what the expectations are for their roles, especially for contracting agents and "shadow artists."  This uncertainty might manifest as reluctance or excess loyalty, but those are symptoms and not causes.

Isn't that sort of a chicken or egg argument?  "It's not that people are reluctant to work or too loyal to their patrons, it's that they don't know that they are supposed to be invested in the 'system' and should be more loyal to the 'system.'"  

I don't think it's a chicken or egg argument, which is a question of timing and causality.  It's plausible that uncertainty and lack of documentation may cause artist PCs to be reluctant or too loyal to participate in a system they don't know exists, but how does it logically follow that being reluctant or overly loyal will cause PCs to become uncertain about a poorly documented system?

This disagreement can be definitively settled by implementing a well documented system without all the mandates and looking at system utilization after the change.

Defining the documentation and laying out guidelines should put us in a good position to later (if deemed necessary) loosen up restrictions.  Again, it's easier to move from more strict to less strict than vice versa.

But if a well documented system without mandates is implemented and it subsequently works, you won't even need to make the harder move to a more strict system, AND everyone is happy.  If you go ahead with the new documentation with all the mandates then you're guaranteeing that you have to make the hard move from less strict to more strict AND you make some people unhappy.

The new documentation is stacked full of mandates for the contracting agent, for the templars, and for the "shadow artists," and it looks to me that the mandates are the biggest source of concern for those responding in this thread.  I know those many mandates are my biggest personal concern.

The overall gist of it probably is not going to change.  Some parts of it might be tweaked based on feedback.  Removing all of them is more than likely not going to happen.

What's the harm in trying the well documented system minus some of the mandates?  The advantage is you may not even need to make the less-strict-to-more-strict change and you may be able to thread the needle of achieving the greater utilization everyone wants without the mandates that some people don't want.

[Taven]

See, and that's what I feel is contrary to the feel of Tuluk. A Tuluki artist should always strive to Master whatever art they practice. This has always been the feel of Tuluk to me. Now it's like "I want you to get really good, but don' become the best. I don't want the best working for me."

I see it as more "to be the best, you'll have to give something up". You CAN still work for a main Chosen House... You'd just be held more at arm's length then, because they wouldn't want to give you access to their buildings. It would be partisan/patron based rather then employment based for the Master level.

Can you honestly say that if there are two competing noble houses, if one of them's artist got caught doing a contract, the other would not use that information against there rival?

If the shadow artist is a public partisan to someone, I think rival Chosen (or Faithful) would use it against each other, so I agree with you there. I mean, if the patron is training that person up, isn't it a little on them if that person fails?

Maybe this will lead to more secret behind-the-scenes arrangements. I mean, really, having a secret patronage of a Shadow Artist seems like a pretty good option. You train them and use them, and if they mess up, your rivals don't know that they're related to you anyway.

[Taven]

Official beta docs on what, ascension?  Basically a certain amount of quality and quantity (you do good work and you do needed work and you will rise in rank).  Does that need to be spelled out with examples on what's quality work and what is not?  We can do that, sure.  It won't be exactly comparable to bards though because bards have their little nitpicky sort of things like "dance with a shoe on your head in a competition on a Detal" (not exactly, but you get my point), and artists wouldn't have provisions like "lol gotta kill my first Chosen Lurd so i can be a master".

Guidelines or documentation on rank advancement, yes please! Specifically, I'd be happy if you could answer the following two questions:

1. Do you have to seek advancement to Master, or is it something that will happen eventually anyway?
2. What are the guidelines for refusing advancement to Master, if it is something that will happen to you eventually no matter what?

These are both very important, not only for Shadow Artists, but for their employers and patrons. You probably don't want that Journeyman assassin becoming a Master even if they don't want to, that would suck.

I am also curious on how subjective the rank advancement is and also who does the promoting? Is it a staff verdict, or is it based on PC Templar decisions? I get that you can't say "do x, y, and z" for rank advancement, but some loose or general guidelines could be helpful.

[Fredd]

See, and that's what I feel is contrary to the feel of Tuluk. A Tuluki artist should always strive to Master whatever art they practice. This has always been the feel of Tuluk to me. Now it's like "I want you to get really good, but don' become the best. I don't want the best working for me."

I see it as more "to be the best, you'll have to give something up". You CAN still work for a main Chosen House... You'd just be held more at arm's length then, because they wouldn't want to give you access to their buildings. It would be partisan/patron based rather then employment based for the Master level.

Can you honestly say that if there are two competing noble houses, if one of them's artist got caught doing a contract, the other would not use that information against there rival?

If the shadow artist is a public partisan to someone, I think rival Chosen (or Faithful) would use it against each other, so I agree with you there. I mean, if the patron is training that person up, isn't it a little on them if that person fails?

Maybe this will lead to more secret behind-the-scenes arrangements. I mean, really, having a secret patronage of a Shadow Artist seems like a pretty good option. You train them and use them, and if they mess up, your rivals don't know that they're related to you anyway.

Maybe. I will definately be trying out this system when it takes place. And Nyr seems to be suggesting that there is a clear reason for this, that the staff know about. I wish I knew what that problem was so I might be able to offer suggestions. I feel strongly on this issue because probably over half my time played has been as a shadow artist in Tuluk. (I might be wrong, but it feels that way) And I do have a cool idea on something that can be done with the new system that I will definately talk to Staff about in the not-so-distant future.

[Nyr]

.

They are the one's that feed, water, train, and take responsibility if the Artist's actions come to light.

They definitely do the first few things, but they also would potentially get proceeds from whatever their artist does in the future.  Also if their artist is working on an independent job, I really doubt the patron could be held too accountable for that.

Can you honestly say that if there are two competing noble houses, if one of them's artist got caught doing a contract, the other would not use that information against there rival?

Introducing the possibility that a contract could well mean you are supposed to get caught should eliminate that.

However, speaking of getting caught, what if a contract stipulates that you should get caught? It's possible that such a scenario could occur. Barring the absurd, a contract may stipulate any number of things. The artist's job is to fulfill the contract...period. If the contract calls for the artist attempting something and failing, that may require more finesse than one that requires simple execution. The artist does not care, the artist merely does the task they are paid to do. Similarly, the templarate is brokering the contract to the artist, and will not punish an artist for fulfilling a contract as given. If a contract does call for more unusual practices, the templar providing the contract will go over it carefully with the artist to be sure they understand how it works. There is art to be found in any number of practices.

As for serving there city. Don't employees of noble houses serve there city by serving there Lords and Ladies? Why is it you are shifting from this idea/mentality? Perhapse it was mentioned on the last eleven pages and I missed it....But could you explain to me why you are making Shadow Artists essentially there own neutral group?

Employees serve their nobles but do not serve the city.  While highborn are better than commoners and everyone knows that, and being an employee of a highborn noble or that House has prestige not afforded to the unaffiliated, they can't be said to really be serving the city, despite the disagreement of noble patrons.

Bards serve their patrons but eventually serve the interests of their Circles; this is part of the roleplay involved in playing a bard and part of what is expected for that role.

Why are we making shadow artists their own neutral group?  Because we're defining more work to be done, and that hinges on artists being available to do it even if they're tied to a patron.  Additionally, it hinges on those with the right clout to be able to hire artists to do work, but that's something that can be fixed pretty easily.  People like working for patrons, cool.  That's fine.  There just may be some additional work that is not against your patron that needs to be done.

[Molten Heart]

What exactly are the differences between the old and the new systems?  I'm only picking up two new things, with the rest of the system being the same.  Those those wo differences being:

-All Templars (not just Lirathans, because there is only one order now) can issue contacts/licenses
-Artists must comply with a contract once they are selected by the templarate

Are there others I have missed?