Do you feel the love?

[razorback]

If you're a well-trusted player and you want to do environmental echoes or affect big plots then you should join the staff.

That's the simplest way I've seen it put. I think there are just some ranks within organizations that shouldn't be attainable by PCs, and this coming from someone who -wants- to do one of those roles. But I agree, if I really wanted to do it, apply for staff.

Then again, that's a scary thought, and I'll stay licking my superiors boots, thank you. 

[Wug]

That does not seem like a very good idea to me.

It is a good idea. We all try to have multiple people look over what we make. Multiple layers of review ensures that we don't put low quality stuff into the game and that the theme stays consistent. We also need to document what we build so that when we leave and new staff come on they'll be able to see just what the heck that doohickey out in the middle of nowhere was for. A lot of the earlier stuff in game did not have the same review process and so it's very hard to track down what some things are, who they belonged to, and so on.

There's some impression that this presents a bottleneck. It doesn't. Most approval requests are done within a day or two and we're usually actively discussing things as we build them.

[manipura]

That does not seem like a very good idea to me.

It is a good idea. We all try to have multiple people look over what we make. Multiple layers of review ensures that we don't put low quality stuff into the game and that the theme stays consistent. We also need to document what we build so that when we leave and new staff come on they'll be able to see just what the heck that doohickey out in the middle of nowhere was for. A lot of the earlier stuff in game did not have the same review process and so it's very hard to track down what some things are, who they belonged to, and so on.

There's some impression that this presents a bottleneck. It doesn't. Most approval requests are done within a day or two and we're usually actively discussing things as we build them.

I think MeTekillot was referring to Wastrel's idea about doing away with the current approval process for certain items, not saying the process is not a good idea.

[Desertman]

It is a good idea. We all try to have multiple people look over what we make. Multiple layers of review ensures that we don't put low quality stuff into the game and that the theme stays consistent. We also need to document what we build so that when we leave and new staff come on they'll be able to see just what the heck that doohickey out in the middle of nowhere was for. A lot of the earlier stuff in game did not have the same review process and so it's very hard to track down what some things are, who they belonged to, and so on.

There's some impression that this presents a bottleneck. It doesn't. Most approval requests are done within a day or two and we're usually actively discussing things as we build them.

I read everything you write in your avatar's voice. I even put in his pauses and imagine his facial expressions.

This is beautiful, and sad.

[Dar]

I read everything you write in your avatar's voice. I even put in his pauses and imagine his facial expressions.

This is beautiful, and sad.

Oh shit. I just realized I was doing that.


Personally, I'm pissed at Calavera. She kept calling my character fat Tony.

[Harmless]

in this thread: people saying they're pissed when they're really overjoyed 

[ShaLeah]

I read everything you write in your avatar's voice. I even put in his pauses and imagine his facial expressions.

This is beautiful, and sad.

Oh shit. I just realized I was doing that.


Personally, I'm pissed at Calavera. She kept calling my character fat Tony.

Personally, I'm pissed at Nautious for referring to a dead character almost every time he answers a damned character report! Somehow I think he's trying to jab me.

(kidding, I love me some Natious)

in this thread: people saying they're pissed when they're really overjoyed 

Kudos Harmless!

[James de Monet]

If you're a well-trusted player and you want to do environmental echoes or affect big plots then you should join the staff.

I think his point was that by leveraging the high karma pbase to do these sorts of things as well, you could seriously increase the amount of it going on, thereby dramatically fleshing out the game world, without the need to triple(+) the number of "staff".

I don't think his point was just that he wants to do these things, and can't.

That being said, you can already do this to a lesser extent by use of emotes (>em stares toward the horizon as the dying rays of Suk-Krath scrabble for purchase across the unforgiving ground before slipping away.). You can add world flavor, you can paint a picture for other players, but you can only do it by referencing your own character, and you are forbidden from forcing emotions and reactions on other characters, virtual or no.

[Wastrel]

Actually mete was referring to the player animation thing. Or more likely he being sardonic towards me. I doubt he was agreeing with me.

[Harmless]

If you're a well-trusted player and you want to do environmental echoes or affect big plots then you should join the staff.

, and you are forbidden from forcing emotions and reactions on other characters, virtual or no.

I don't agree in some instances on virtual PCs of certain types. Can't we, for example, have shopkeeps react a little after fucking up some haggling or buying something really expensive? I mean, if I just went to a Kadian and bought a two-large rock attached to a string, I think I'm allowed to power emote them at least nodding at me, and maybe, just -maybe- with a smile, too.

But I don't agree with anything beyond the mildest reactions, and only when other IG information is consistent with it.

[Feco]

Can I be a veteran?

I feel loved.

[Molten Heart]

Can I be a veteran?

I feel loved.

Yes, if just only for tonight.

[HunterKiller]

I've noticed increased effort being made lately to attract new players to the mud. While this is undoubtedly very important, I wonder if enough effort is made to keep the veteran players, well, playing. And if not, what could be done to improve that?

Discuss. Or don't.

Cheers.

First agree on the goal. If the goal is to increase veteran presence, then encourage more play. Seems like a pretty simple concept. How do you do that? If you're having trouble coming up with some good answers, use the 180 degree technique:

"How can I discourage veteran players from playing Arm so much"
1) Don't answer them when they write to staff
2) Ignore reports
3) Ignore good play
4) Ridicule them openly for trying something new
5) Take Karma away anytime they ask for something
6) Reduce their character's stats when they make a mistake
7) Make sure they're alone as possible when logged in
Penalize them when they acquire too many hours per rl week on their character
9) Send negative notes to their account
10) Sabotage any efforts they have of starting a plot / quest
11) Log in frequently with a superior NPC and berate their character in front of everyone

The above is not an invitation for you to identify which has happened to you, which Imm was naughty or nice or which one is drinking coke over pepsi. The above is a list meant to encourage veteran sustainability and a more frequent presence. So, make a list of your own like I did above, then reverse them. Not every idea is going to be shiny metal, most of them probably won't be. That's how creative brainstorming works. Come up with a lot of shitty ideas and pluck a few hairy ideas from the heap, then maybe find one good one lurking in the leaves and kernels.

(For those of you on too much Red Bull and not enough sleep, the numbers below coincide with the numbers above)

1) Give veterans priority when responding. They're veterans and probably aren't asking (as many) stupid questions.
2) Give kudos and feedback on reports. I have to do weekly reports for work. If I have to do them for Arm too it'd be nice to be acknowledged as a great way to keep a busy staff member in the loop and not just something routine someone will get to after they've cleaned their fish tank.
3) Reward good play. There's all sorts of ways to do this. Animating an NPC, dropping an item where they can find it. Sending an interesting room echo, even a benign one can offer a splash of color to our otherwise green terminal (yes I still use zmud, I'm lame).
4) Offer recognition somehow for veterans who try new things. Maybe you help them out at just the right moment, maybe you call attention to their actions afterwards, either IC or OOC somehow. Master, autonomy and purpose. Read Daniel H. Pink - Drive (Does Arm still have the Amazon account? It's not expensive).
5) I'm sure there's already an established system for staff giving Karma, maybe there's no value in this one.
6) Increase character stats temporarily? Maybe character finds a goblet that temporarily increases stats, maybe they kill something that releases magickal properties that sends everyone in the room to full health / stam / mana, etc.
7) Maybe use NPC / avatars to bring a few iso characters together. A bartender asking to fetch something from the market? A house or clan needing supplies (honestly, make your shit run out more often. You have to be low on stuff, especially if you're a big house). If  you have a clan with a room stock full of stuff, make some of it disappear, perhaps on an automated system. Organize routine and non-routine hunting parties, have an NPC teach some skills that are otherwise difficult to learn. Maybe add a woodworking skill to someone's skill list. I mean god forbid I get whittled to death by that assassin's uber carving skill.
Reward frequent players, most especially leaders. Establish hell week (or month), if the leader can finish a period of time and retain 80% of the starting characters then some rewards are in order, either IC or OOC. Hell maybe just a bit of your time would suffice, MUD sex, whatever the veteran wants, I'm not here to judge (you sick bastard). Just a bit of help here and there from staff, then veteran leader players really can make the game kick ass. They're like pizza, even if they suck they're still probably pretty good.
9) Positive notes to the account. I've had imms just say a quick hi when I log in, that was pretty cool, before the days of the note / request system, etc. Appreciating the fear of getting mobbed with impromptu requests, it's kinda cool to just converse briefly.
10) Help along the efforts of the player. I started an auction for an estabalished clan and an imm avatar / character showed up just in time to not make me look like a supreme ass, no small feat (thanks for that) and offer items I would've otherwise been unable to get / auction off on my own.
11) Log in once in a while with a superior NPC and encourage a direction / action of the veteran (then disappear before you get mobbed with requests ... heh)

Of course I focus on things a staff member can do to encourage veterans, what can normal players do?

Whether normal player or staff, the key is low-hanging fruit - what's the least amount of effort I have to put in to have some fun, for the staff member too? Be lazy, you have permission. What's a tiny thing that's easy to pull off that will generate a lot of fun? Is it something that can be done periodically? If it's fun, re-use the idea.

My 2¢

[Welda]

Now I would be interested to see a post about "what could veteran players do to encourage staff".  

[MeTekillot]

That does not seem like a very good idea to me.

It is a good idea. We all try to have multiple people look over what we make. Multiple layers of review ensures that we don't put low quality stuff into the game and that the theme stays consistent. We also need to document what we build so that when we leave and new staff come on they'll be able to see just what the heck that doohickey out in the middle of nowhere was for. A lot of the earlier stuff in game did not have the same review process and so it's very hard to track down what some things are, who they belonged to, and so on.

There's some impression that this presents a bottleneck. It doesn't. Most approval requests are done within a day or two and we're usually actively discussing things as we build them.

My post was in reference to Wastrel's proposal to remove this review process.

[Wug]

That does not seem like a very good idea to me.

It is a good idea. We all try to have multiple people look over what we make. Multiple layers of review ensures that we don't put low quality stuff into the game and that the theme stays consistent. We also need to document what we build so that when we leave and new staff come on they'll be able to see just what the heck that doohickey out in the middle of nowhere was for. A lot of the earlier stuff in game did not have the same review process and so it's very hard to track down what some things are, who they belonged to, and so on.

There's some impression that this presents a bottleneck. It doesn't. Most approval requests are done within a day or two and we're usually actively discussing things as we build them.

My post was in reference to Wastrel's proposal to remove this review process.

Gotcha!

Now I would be interested to see a post about "what could veteran players do to encourage staff". 

What could veteran players* do for staff? Make me a weird forum avatar. If you make me a weird avatar I will make you a weird avatar in return. First person to make me a weird avatar gets a weird avatar.

*veteran player status is defined only within your own heart

[James de Monet]

Now I would be interested to see a post about "what could veteran players do to encourage staff".  

We could bring formalized religion back the game, and each active Imm would have a shrine somewhere in the world. Players could make pilgrimages to them to receive your blessing, start wars in your name, and sing songs of your bounteous provision (now available on an ad hoc, as requested, catalogical basis!)

[Lutagar]

[James de Monet]

If you make me a weird avatar I will make you a weird avatar in return. First person to make me a weird avatar gets a weird avatar.

Aww, man! This when I'm 400 miles away from Photoshop?  But, let's be honest...we know how JDM feels about avatarious infidelity anyway...



Also, for the record, HunterKiller, since we are on the topic of sharing the love, I don't know if I'm onboard with Goblets of Mass Heal +3, but I like your writing style. It amuses me. 

[BleakOne]

Also, for the record, HunterKiller, since we are on the topic of sharing the love, I don't know if I'm onboard with Goblets of Mass Heal +3, but I like your writing style. It amuses me. 

Yeah, not quite on board for stat buffs for long-lived characters and healing magick for killing monsters either. Still, some good ideas in there, in particular the animating clan NPCs to drop in and swap stories of old times. 

[Fredd]

I bet I can guess what Fredd's question was about... 

Got in a fight with Nyr, and lost Karma. Adhira said I could have it back in 3 months if there's been no bad notes. Hence why it went to a question not account notes.


Was there negative notes?


No= Return karma point

yes= Dont return Karma (provide said notes so I can improve)

[BleakOne]

Got in a fight with Nyr

...Now I've got visions in my head of a swarm of little furry things with rocks fighting Fry from Futurama.

[manonfire]

Wug, here is your new avatar.

[Nyr]

I bet I can guess what Fredd's question was about... 

Got in a fight with Nyr, and lost Karma.

This is a bad way to describe or look at interaction with staff or players on this game (probably bad to do this in description of other things in life, too).  It removes all of the context and boils everything down to what ultimately happened negatively to you (staff does not trust you as much and now your karma is one point lower) and arbitrarily assigns reasoning for that without looking at the larger picture (because you got in a fight with a staff member).  What did you get in a fight with a staff member over, exactly?  What is it that you did that caused a staff response?  For the sake of reassurance here, it was not an argument or disagreement and I doubt you can call it a fight.  It isn't that appropriate to discuss here because that's between you and staff.  However, it's also not doing any favors for you if you take great pains to avoid accepting responsibility for your own actions and instead try and paint it as a "fight" when the truth is much different than that.

[charas]

Hm, there are some decent ideas in here, and the tone stayed amazingly civil. I'm proud of you guys.

Now I would be interested to see a post about "what could veteran players do to encourage staff". 

Go ahead and open one up, I am sure there are some things that could be done to increase the shelf-life of staff. And I believe someone already laid the foundation.

Most importantly? How do we, as players, show STAFF the love?

1. Kudos. Whether it be every week on those character reports or actual kudos, send them in.
2. Treat them with respect.
3. Be grateful. Without them, we wouldn't have this wonderful addiction coursing through our veins.
4. Apologize if you were a fuck. Profusely if necessary.
5. Do what they ask.

Let me just say here that it is the unbroken spirit of these staunch supporters of Ginka that made us make this thread walker accessible.

(...) Sometimes Natious and Hishn respond to my character reports with pictures of cats (...)

Thank you Fathi for putting a finger on the blatant, ney, rampant favoritism that is plaguing this mud - I have yet to receive one lousy picture. (make it boobs)

The "glass ceiling" issue isn't as much of one as it used to be, I think - some roles have places in between the equivalent of "blue robe" and "red robe", that don't come with an official promotion but do come with additional responsibilities, and presumably, social rank. Other roles don't seem to as much. Like I said earlier in the thread, I think it's important to consider developing alternatives rather than completely reverse certain changes, and staff seem to be on the right track in that regard.

Well, this makes me optimistic, I am looking forward to see how things will work out in the future.

Can I be a veteran?

No. Get out.


Also Nyr and Fredd, this thread's for lovers not for fighters.