Looking at NE, NW.. well you got the idea

[Gaare]

I wonder why we cant see the diagonal directions, like northeast northwest etc...  Just because of this reason it is too much abusable for fleers and ambushers.  

If someone is running away from you and s/he goes one step in the north-south and one step in the east-west direction, you can not see him/her from the point where you are staying, even though s/he is just one square away from you.  
So it is impossible to follow someone who is drawing "zig-zags."

I suggest the code should support looking in the diagonal directions.  It may be hard to create a code looking at all directions, because of the complexity of the increase in the number of the nearby rooms for the squares that are away from you  more than one square.  But it would be helpful to change the code even if that makes it possible to see just one square in the diagonal directions.

[Koala]

Be able to see a single room in the diagonals would be a great help in the desert. By that way you can see the desert creatures (many times deadly, if they stroll together) just before they ambush you. So you live a little bit longer    

I strongly suggest a code change if it is possible.

[flashz00]

I seem to like how it is already set up..Who needs to look in those other directions?(Not me)

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I say this:

Lets look at the indescretions in being able to look in certian directions as the tradein you give for being able to cover twenty or thirty miles in one IC hour.

[Sanvean]

This would require a truly massive building effort, and makes me tired just to think about it. If we ever rebuilt the mud from scratch, maybe.

[Koala]

I seem to like how it is already set up..Who needs to look in those other directions?(Not me)

A hunter really needs such an option. As one simultaneously uses the comands, look north; look west; look east; look south, s/he will easily sees (if no storm out there) near, far, and very far. Not being able to see northest, etc. (the closest diagonals) does not seem to me meaningfull although such places are closer than any far object in any direction.

An example about an unexpected ambush altough you might have been noticed;

(In desert) You look at north and east and see nothing except sand dunes. Than you safely move north beacuse you did not see a single threat. As you reach north you see - two sandy haired tarantulas have arrived from east - ... then you try to avoid it but you see --- You are fighting for your life! ---

You should see the tarantulas before you move north because they are just there in the northeast. I am not saying that you should see far away when you look at diagonals, just you should see a single room when you look there. Normally if you look around you would notice your diagonal directions before you see very far distance in some direction.

That code change might be difficult but would be great  

[flashz00]

I see your point Koala but there is nothing wrong with how it is now..Each square is not just several feet it is possibly hundreds of feet..And when you do happen to move north and a creature comes in on you, not being able to see northeast doesn't make a difference..Maybe the creature was out of sight? Some one kick me if I'm wrong

[Koala]

And when you do happen to move north and a creature comes in on you, not being able to see northeast doesn't make a difference..Maybe the creature was out of sight? Some one kick me if I'm wrong

You are right, maybe it was out of sight. Also I can turn it IC ly (supposing not saw the tarantula) but it gets distracting when it always happens with the diagonals. You always correctly see the usualy directions till very far and cannot even see the closest object in the corners. That will probably kill someone who works in the desert (in real life and in zalahantas   )

[flashz00]

I know exactly how you feel..Baddies have came up on me many and many of times because of that....But oh well....

[Summer]

Did you not read the post saying it would be a huge effort? Monumental even. It sucks, but just deal with it.

[Carnage]

Certain NPCs of all walks of life are able to hide and sneak.

Also, if you're one to travel the wilderness often, you learn to sort of... well, work around it. The most obvious solution is to not walk in such straight lines, it really kills your sight range. I actually like it this way, adds a little bit more depth to travel than... 12w3s5w10s. That may be just me, but the wilderness is a dangerous place. Play it right and it won't be, but I don't see why we should code in such ease, unless we're to code in more hardships (Like more hiding animals. I mean, not like I don't want to see that more anyway)

[creeper386]

Also, think of it this way. If you can see in diagnals, you should be able to travel in diagonals. If you can see and travel in diagonals, so can the baddies.

l e, l n, l ne, l se, ALL come up with nothing.

e

A big, hairy spider arrives from the northeast.

Or... Same look scenario...

e

A big hairy spider arrives from the north, or south, or east.

Just because you looked before you moved doesn't mean that the spider didn't move after you looked. Most spiders, I imagine even big ones, move pretty fast if need be. And don't get me started on things like raptors, or hordes of halflings riding their gangly gortok pets.


Creeper

[Anonymous]

Heh, great, that's all I need is 2 times the number of rooms a creature can attack you from.  At least the way it is now if there is a creature one room to the north and a creature in the room west of the north room you only get nailed by one.

[creeper386]

Basically what I was saying, is even if this was implemented, you could still be attacked by creatures it was impossible to see before your move. It'll happen no matter what.


Creeper

[Koala]

Basically what I was saying, is even if this was implemented, you could still be attacked by creatures it was impossible to see before your move. It'll happen no matter what.

I see your point of view and accept that you cannot comletely escape from an ambush but sometimes you may have a chance to see that they are coming if you would see the corners. Also I only say that being able to see your diagonal (still we do not have to move to that rooms in the diagonals, just seeing a single room in near in NE, etc. will be enough in most cases) will prevent you moving to north if there is already a deadly treath in NE or NW. That would be a great help in many circumstances (like the very small difference in being killed or be able to survive   ).

[Gaare]

The point that Koala mentioned is very important.  In cities problem some how less since there mostly two or three exists in a square.  In desert always four.  

A player or worse a smart beast uses this for its advantage you see creature some squares away.  After a while creature goes off.  You may think that It moves to a nearby square but it is sometimes false and that time deadly.  The creature and its relatives moves to the diagonal of your square, then you got an ambush.  This is an awful experience.  

Also it is not realistic since a creature can't know you can't see in diagonal.

[Drayab]

I suggested this same thing a few months back, and it got shot down because 'it would be too hard to code.' Personally, I think it would be easy enough to code for simple areas like open grasslands where there is nothing to get in your line of sight, but in cities and other such places, writing some code to decide what areas you can and can't see could be tough. It's a pathfinding problem, and my experience tells me that pathfinding problems can be tricky. Also, as creeper said, if you can look diagonally, you'd think you should be able to move diagonally. I think that would also be nice, but making it so you could do that would be, IMO, a HUGE job like restructuring the entire mud. Every room would need four more exits! And that's not even considering that code has to be written to make it possible.

I still think that the diagonal look could be done (carefully) with some dynamic, pathfinding code, but who am I to say? I've never even seen the existing code. I might be (and probably am) talking out of my ass. Not to mention, Sanvean already said no.  :wink:

[Xygax]

This would require a truly massive building effort, and makes me tired just to think about it. If we ever rebuilt the mud from scratch, maybe.

Could be automated, potentially (if a room is the same room seen by going n; e, as it is by going e; n, then that room would be the room you see when you "l ne").  However, I'm not sure why, if you can SEE ne, nw, se, sw, those mean nasty gith you're trying to look out for can't SHOOT ne, se, sw, se, or run into get you.    And then you'll want "l nee" or "l nnw" so you can see them before they see you AGAIN...  really, if the mechanics were implemented fairly, both ways (ie. the gith and baddies get the same advantages), then the mechanic (that you can move one room away and be surprised by something coming at you from the next room over) won't change in any meaningful way.

[Stroker]

Well, dying isn't that bad. I don't like having a char for too long of a time, it just gets boring and worn out. On the other hand, if the critters won't get you, you're just going to fall off a cliff. Hehe ...

[Anonymous]

I always imagined the diagonal look letting you see one of the quadrants of the circular area that surrounds your character, not just a particular room. For example, look northeast would, in ideal viewing conditions, let you see:

[Far to the north and nearby to the east]:
nothing

[Nearby to the north and nearby to the east];
The Ravenous, Bugblatter Beast of Traal is here, gnashing its teeth and looking around ravenously.

[Nearby to the north and far to the east]:
nothing

Done this way, you could use all four diagonal looks to scan the land around you in a pseudo-circular fashion. Right now the area you can see is more like a cross. Basically, you can see all those rooms within three moves from your current location. I've said this all before so I'm going to stop now.

[Drayab]

Argh. That was me.

[creeper386]

Over all. The easiest way to do this would most likely to go through and add exits in all directions that it's possible, and that should be able to make look viewable in those directions with some minor additions to the look code, although I would think the code is all in place, it's just a building issue. Which, it's hard to build a large MUD like Arm and remain consistant. It's even harder to properly go through all the areas and fix everything on a large scale like this. I wouldn't wish building a huge complicated area on my worst enemy, let alone going through an area, that most likely someone else built, and trying to change thousand of meticulous things.

And, like I said, and Xygax said, it wouldn't really change anything. If your able to look northwest... So can the baddies... And, if they are planning on attacking you, they are going to do it still. It seems to me people want to be able to look in a diagonal as a way to surely avoid creatures.

Creeper

[Drayab]

Over all. The easiest way to do this would most likely to go through and add exits in all directions that it's possible

I think that would be the most difficult way to do it. Although the coding might be easier doing it that way, the building involved would be immense. Some pathfinding code might need to be cleverly written to work, but overall I think it would be a smaller and more reasonable project.

And, like I said, and Xygax said, it wouldn't really change anything

I think it would make the world more realistic to be able to see around your character in a more circular pattern. You're right, it wouldn't make you completely safe from being surprised by the baddies, but it would help prevent you from stupidly walking right up beside one if it was done in the way I have in mind.

[Eru]

if the mechanics were implemented fairly, both ways (ie. the gith and baddies get the same advantages), then the mechanic (that you can move one room away and be surprised by something coming at you from the next room over) won't change in any meaningful way.

Maybe what I am saying is going to take the discussion far away from where it started, but someone has to do it  :twisted:

The point in seeing the diagonals is usually to be aware of the potential nearby enemies.  And if you are aware, you have a chance to avoid it.  Now consider you are one diagonal square aware from a "sultan-like desert worm" or something that can crush your head without much effort.  And not knowing what awaits you , you walk to the nearby square, where both you and your enemy can see each other.  So seems fair, you can run away.
But it is not so.  For the AI get aware, move fast and jump on you, much earlier than you even have a chance to look at that direction.  So before you get a grab of what is happening, suddenly you are "fighting for your life!"
If seeing the diagonals is not possible, I suggest to put a little lag in AI's detection, so the person moving into the danger will have a chance to act.

[Krath]

This would require a truly massive building effort, and makes me tired just to think about it. If we ever rebuilt the mud from scratch, maybe.

Nuff said, Lock this mofo down. Sanvean said it isnt going to happen, no point in discussing it.

[Twilight]

Personally, I do not like the idea of being able to see in a diagonal, but not being able to move in a diagonal, and more importantly, having a beastie move in that diagonal towards you.  Outside is supposed to be dangerous.  It is supposed to be full of surprises.  I am supposed to find your corpse, scratch my head, and wonder "How the heck did they manage to die here?"  If it wasn't so deadly, it wouldn't be so much fun and I might actually start a noble type character!

[Rindan]

If you are plowing through the desert, you are taking your risks.  It should be pointed out that if you feel like burning some MP, you absolutely can cross the desert reasonable safely.  You just need to be willing to take a while to do it.  You might not be able to travel from Luir's to Allanak without resting.