How do you feel about PC killing?

[Marauder Moe]

I will be as metagamey as possible. I will bend the code as far as I possibly can.
That's what we take issue with.

As long as I'm not breaking any rules and still roleplaying there shouldn't be an issue.

Being metagamey as possible and bending the code as far as you can ARE against the rules.

So here are my thoughts on PK. I will show you zero mercy if my PC wants to kill you. I will do it in the most efficient way possible if I can. If you kill my PC, one of three things happened a) you outsmarted me as a player b) i let you kill me c) I goofed. Simple as that. Call it metagaming, call it code bending, whatever. Semantics.

No one is saying you have to show mercy.  Also, YOU'RE the one who said "metagaming" and "code bending", and you leveled that accusation at every veteran player in the game.

People already do this and you can tell me all day you dont, I know its bullshit. I've talked with players who've played the game for 10+ years, killed hundreds of PCs, and generally know the game better than anyone.

You're talking to another 10 year veteran right now and I'm saying otherwise.

I know how they think. I know how they operate. They're fucken lizards. There are of course exceptions to everything, but I'm not talking about those. Ok? Ok.

So... reverse No True Scotsman?  "Every veteran player in the game is a metagaming bastard... except the ones who aren't!"   

What exactly are you trying to do with this line of discussion anyway?  Piss people off?  Or simply trying to justify your future crappy play?

[Barzalene]

I think I am probably a scrub. I think I'm also having a better time than you. (Based on your posts.). You're allowed to feel frustrated But it really is more fun when winning is taken out of the equation. Also whether you play 1 pc this year or 50. You get paid exactly the same.

[ShaLeah]

FYI I have played this game for 12 years on and off.

I do -not- avoid being killed. Most of my PCs end up pkilled.  Most of the players I know in real life or through IMs that are veterans covet a good death. A bad death is always annoying, no matter how long you've been playing. We should all avoid bad deaths.

I think that anyone that -would- do any of the above things are fucked up, it makes me wanna pkill them for ooc reasons. I'll refrain anyway.

The posts 'feel' accusatory and don't really answer the thread. Wastrel's opinions make me think they should be in a thread called something else.

[LauraMars]

You definitely have a lot more fun in Armageddon when you stop thinking it's a game you can win.

Nobody wins Armageddon.  Each new character is the story of how they died.

[manonfire]

Nobody wins Armageddon.  Each new character is the story of how they died.

+1

[Wastrel]

Being metagamey as possible and bending the code as far as you can ARE against the rules.

What rules, exactly? http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Rules Show me where it says I cant be metagamey or use the code to my advantage. Where was that Or are these apart of Nyr's shady, whimsical rules we're supposed to know by reading the forums and old threads? It seems we have different definitions of metagaming. Straight from wikipedia: In simple terms, it is the use of out-of-game information or resources to affect one's in-game decisions. Thats my definition. Your seems to be loaded with a bunch of nastiness like reacting improperly to a psion, playing with cliques, twinking, etc...Metagaming isn't a bad word in my vocabulary. It simply means playing smarter and having a greater appreciation for the current rules and standards of the game.

I'm just defending myself. You're basically sitting here telling me you're paragons of purist roleplay who've never played a PC selfishly. That you've never conveniently missed out on on a event that would probably lead to your death. ....Anyone who'd do that...what a boring MONSTER they are!!!.... That you never gracefully tiptoed out of the room when a Templar entered. That you never go outside the city or deviate from a certain pattern of play because that would be dangerous. That you never do X because you know it will probably lead to your death. That you never made way more sid than you should have. ETC. BECAUSE YOU'VE NEVER DONE ANY OF THIS RIGHT? You're all perfect little saints and I'm the big bad man for saying I want to metagame within reason and use the code to my advantage. Because apparently its okay older players to have a working knowledge of the code and act accordingly while younger players waste hours and HOURS of time because they are playing under false assumptions.

Get. Real.

[Barzalene]

I cannot speak for Moe, but I can make that claim.

[ShaLeah]

Lotsa shit and then:
Get. Real.

Alright hero... take a deep breath.

Players are human, players make mistakes, players grow from gamers to roleplayers. You'll be no different. Ten years from now you'll be reading some noob saying "Why am I an asshole/twink/derp/whateverlingoiscurrent for admitting I'll do this shit?!?" and you'll think to yourself:
"You just don't get it.... yet... but you will... Or you'll end up one of the few ex-players."

It's looked down upon, yes, just like sharing coded syntax for complicated shit you are encouraged to learn in game is frowned upon.  The point is we're encouraging you NOT to do any of that shit because when you look back you'll be able to see all the wasted lessons and opportunities you fucked yourself out of.

Don't fuck yourself. Fuck others. That's what Arm is about.

[Wastrel]

Exactly, they're human.

Oh excuse me, Barzalene is not.

[Barzalene]

Exactly, they're human.

Oh excuse me, Barzalene is not.

Oh well. Still I'm not all bad.

[BadSkeelz]

Man, where's a link to that Michael Jackson eating Popcorn gif when you need one.

[Wastrel]

You're good at that.

[manonfire]

The goddamn plane has crashed into the mountain.

[manipura]

No worries BadSkeelz, I gotcha.

[Marauder Moe]

You're changing it up, Wastrel.  You said:

I will be as metagamey as possible. I will bend the code as far as I possibly can.

Of course people use some knowledge gained from previous characters' experience, and of course people use "code" for advantage.  The problem is when you claim that vets are all doing though things to the maximum.  There are thresholds after which metagaming and code advantage are unacceptable.

If you do intend to retract or revise that statement, that's wonderful.  (Though, the comment about being a "fucken lizard" seemed a bit insulting too.)

Also, for the record, your tirade a few posts back does describe my play fairly well.  I don't miss RPTs because I think they'll kill my character.  I don't avoid templars on the off chance they'll take interest in my character.  Most of my characters do follow clan rules most of the time, and when broken it's usually for a good reason rather than because I'm OOCly bored.  I don't make as much money as my characters (with non-salaried income) possibly can.

You're not a bad man because of your play.  I don't actually know anything about your play.  You're a bad man because you came here and, unprovoked as far as I can tell, said something insulting.  (I suspect you're not really a bad man, though.  Just a little misguided right now and/or having a bad day.  It's OK.)

[LauraMars]

Get. Real.

Well.  That escalated quickly.

[Patuk]

Oh hey new sig

Now let's get to making that Lord Cagelar already Lauramars

[Lutagar]

Don't mind me, just trying to get the last post before this thread gets locked.

Edit: I was too early. Woe. ;_;

[Wastrel]

Not if I can help it. @moe my original post always meant "within reason" or "as much as its okay to get away with" not "HUEHUEHUEHEUHE FUCK EVERYONE IM TWINKING UP BACKSTAB IN A WEEK"

[Desertman]

I'm just defending myself. You're basically sitting here telling me you're paragons of purist roleplay who've never played a PC selfishly. That you've never conveniently missed out on on a event that would probably lead to your death. ....Anyone who'd do that...what a boring MONSTER they are!!!.... That you never gracefully tiptoed out of the room when a Templar entered. That you never go outside the city or deviate from a certain pattern of play because that would be dangerous. That you never do X because you know it will probably lead to your death. That you never made way more sid than you should have. ETC. BECAUSE YOU'VE NEVER DONE ANY OF THIS RIGHT? You're all perfect little saints and I'm the big bad man for saying I want to metagame within reason and use the code to my advantage. Because apparently its okay older players to have a working knowledge of the code and act accordingly while younger players waste hours and HOURS of time because they are playing under false assumptions.

I am not guilty of any of this. The majority of my characters are long lived characters. I also send player complaints any time I see people metagaming.

I am a decade and a half veteran player.

[Wastrel]

You never play selfishly?

You'd never avoid a Templar, ever?

You'd never not do dangerous things because you know better?

You'd never use the code to your advantage?

...You'd never silt sea a PC?

Really now Dman.

[Desertman]

You never play selfishly?

You'd never avoid a Templar, ever?

You'd never not do dangerous things because you know better?

...You'd never silt sea a PC?

Really now Dman.

If I am playing a selfish character yes I will roleplay being selfish. I'm not sure what you are getting at here.

ponydealwithit.jpg

If I am being hunted of course I avoid templars. I highly recommend avoiding templars in general. I don't log out to avoid them. I don't not log in to avoid them. I stay away from them in game. That isn't metagaming. That is playing a realistic Zalanthan. That is called roleplaying accordingly.

I knowingly walked my longest lived and within arguement most well known/well liked/popular character of all time into a Tuluki templar jail cell on purpose knowing I would never walk out again because it was the IC thing to do.

ponydealwithit.jpg

If I am playing a character that does not enjoy doing dangerous things, yes, I will roleplay accordingly and not do dangerous things. I'm not sure I understand this question.

ponydealwithit.jpg

Walking a character into the silt sea right out of character gen because you decide you want to play something else or because you get stats that are not realistic and/or make it impossible to realistically roleplay the character you have written is not metagaming. That is ensuring you do not ruin everyone else's immersion by trying to play an unrealistic or uninspiring character in a scenario that would be blatantly jarring to those around you.

The beastial, massive-muscled man - Poor Strength

I would find it almost impossible to roleplay that correctly and realistically and as such I might silt sea that character to save the staff the time it takes to answer a store request.

I'm not sure I understand your question here either, but I think you are implying I might silt sea a character just to try and get AI stats. Nope. I once silt sea'ed a cripple I wrote because he got AI agility. I couldn't play that realistically. So I silt sea'ed him for realism and roleplay reasons.

ponydealwithit.jpg

[TheWanderer]

Well.  That escalated quickly.

I think of it as a civic duty...

[Desertman]

I think I would like to stick with the pony theme. I'm not sure why. I am feeling it is necessary this day.

[Qzzrbl]

I'm just defending myself. You're basically sitting here telling me you're paragons of purist roleplay who've never played a PC selfishly. That you've never conveniently missed out on on a event that would probably lead to your death. ....Anyone who'd do that...what a boring MONSTER they are!!!.... That you never gracefully tiptoed out of the room when a Templar entered. That you never go outside the city or deviate from a certain pattern of play because that would be dangerous. That you never do X because you know it will probably lead to your death. That you never made way more sid than you should have. ETC. BECAUSE YOU'VE NEVER DONE ANY OF THIS RIGHT? You're all perfect little saints and I'm the big bad man for saying I want to metagame within reason and use the code to my advantage. Because apparently its okay older players to have a working knowledge of the code and act accordingly while younger players waste hours and HOURS of time because they are playing under false assumptions.

I am not guilty of any of this. The majority of my characters are long lived characters. I also send player complaints any time I see people metagaming.

I am a decade and a half veteran player.

Much the same here.

Except a majority of my characters are quite short lived.

*My face when I realize I've been playing Arm on and off since I was twelve.

::Edit:: Now that I look over Wastrel's post some more.... I mean. It's not really considered metagaming to not leave the city because it's dangerous. Know why? Because it's very f'cking dangerous and every character is at least a little aware of this in an IC fashion. There's nothing OOC about it.

Not doing X because it'll kill you? That's.... I mean. What? You call that meta? Lemme level with you.... Even the most sheltered of PCs would more than likely know a thing or two about stuff that'll kill them. Pretty sure they'd avoid that.